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 Post subject: Fake Health Centers
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:51 pm 
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So, quite a few folks have been talking about these places recently.

So-called "Crisis Pregnancy Centers". This article in HuffPo is by Lizz Winstead.

l Was Tricked By A ‘Fake Reproductive Health Center.’ Now I’m Fighting For Other Women
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/fa ... 4a8b27fc0b

Most people have never heard of “fake reproductive health centers” and yet there are over 4,000 of them across the country. These centers pose as women’s health clinics, despite often having no licensed medical professionals on staff. They exist solely for the purpose of luring women in the door and counseling them against abortion. Compare that to the just under 800 comprehensive reproductive healthcare clinics that provide a wide range of actual medical care, including abortion.

The “crisis pregnancy center” that lured me in and deceived me is the exact kind of fake clinic that SCOTUS, in a 5-4 decision in NIFLA v. Becerra last week, ruled has the constitutional right to deceive women about their reproductive care.

National Institute of Family and Life Advocates (NIFLA) is the organization representing fake clinics in this case, and Attorney General of California Xavier Becerra represented the state. The case is pretty simple: In 2015, the state of California passed a law called, “The FACT Act”― simple legislation with two requirements:

First, it requires any licensed community clinic whose “primary purpose is providing family planning or pregnancy-related services” to disclose to all patients that the state of California offers “free or low-cost contraception, prenatal care, and abortion.” This is important. The FACT Act doesn’t require them to refer or promote any of these services, it simply requires they must let the patient know the state provides them at low or no cost.

Second, the law also requires that the unlicensed fake clinics disclose in both their facilities and in their ads that they are not licensed, medical providers.

NIFLA argued that enforcing laws that require transparency in health care is “forced speech” and violates the First Amendment and the Supreme Court agreed. What this means is that any licensed community clinic that provides reproductive care and is opposed to abortion can legally deny pregnant people information about how to access one. Even worse, the decision grants unlicensed, sham clinics the constitutional right to continue hiding the fact that they are not REAL health care providers, allows them to continue to dress up in lab coats impersonating doctors, to perform ultrasounds, give women whatever results they feel like and then lie to you and me about the safety of abortion or how to even access abortion.

[snip]

With deceptive sounding names like “Choices for Women” or “Pregnancy Decision Health Center,” these sham artists operate, not only with impunity but are also outright predatory. They often open up right next door to abortion providers and will approach women heading to their actual appointments to lure them over to their facilities. This is done to confuse patients and trick them into walking into the wrong door or building, causing them to miss their actual appointment. Their strategies are endless, manipulative, and terrifying.

With deceptive sounding names like “Choices for Women” or “Pregnancy Decision Health Center,” these sham artists operate, not only with impunity but are also outright predatory.
The stone cold truth about this case and the people who filed it is this:

These fake women’s health centers have built an industry out of lying to women about their health care options. They are so committed to deception, they fought all the way to the Supreme Court to defend their “right” to do so and last week, the Supreme Court ruled in their favor. So here we are, living in a country where lying to women is now a First Amendment right.

Maybe you don’t believe in abortion. Maybe you think people shouldn’t choose to have one. But do you believe that it should be legal for fake doctors to lure desperate pregnant people into a fake clinic for the sole purpose of misleading them about their health care options? Do you think people seeking medical care should be tricked into doing what someone else thinks is right?

This ruling allows people to stalk women in need; it allows them to lie to them and shame them in their most vulnerable hour.


[snip][end]

I think the SCOTUS ruling was wrong.

Yes, I think people should be able to offer people information about alternative options to abortion. Of course. BTW, Planned Parenthood clinics almost always DO discuss alternatives with their patients as well. Where I think Lizz is right, and SCOTUS is wrong, is that these clinics do not have a "right" to deceive people. They are not staffed by medical professionals, usually only by religious zealots. They do not (unlike PP) offer patients their full range of options. In fact, they purposely and deceptively refuse to offer a discussion of abortion as a legal alternative. You have no way of knowing this by the way they describe and advertise themselves. The problem is false advertising.

These so-called women's health clinics in fact usually have no one on staff with any medical training in women's health. Thus, the very way they advertise themselves is a deceptive lie.

Deception and fraud is not protected by the 1st amendment.

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 Post subject: Re: Fake Health Centers
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:56 pm 
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ProfessorX wrote:
I think the SCOTUS ruling was wrong.

Yes, I think people should be able to offer people information about alternative options to abortion. Of course. BTW, Planned Parenthood clinics almost always DO discuss alternatives with their patients as well. Where I think Lizz is right, and SCOTUS is wrong, is that these clinics do not have a "right" to deceive people. They are not staffed by medical professionals, usually only by religious zealots. They do not (unlike PP) offer patients their full range of options. In fact, they purposely and deceptively refuse to offer a discussion of abortion as a legal alternative. You have no way of knowing this by the way they describe and advertise themselves. The problem is false advertising.

These so-called women's health clinics in fact usually have no one on staff with any medical training in women's health. Thus, the very way they advertise themselves is a deceptive lie.

Deception and fraud is not protected by the 1st amendment.
Yep. Abortion aside, intentionally deceptive practices should not be allowed in a uninhibited fashion. (Without giving it too much thought, perhaps it should be allowed...I'm not sure...but with restrictions). It seems though, that deception certainly, fraud sometimes, is protected...It certainly is commonly used including/especially by our lawmakers. For example, controversial bills are usually given deceptive -- I would say fraudulent--names to help them gain public support. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be a single standard of where promotion turns to deception then to fraud.

But the Court, and law, in my mind, should be moving in the direction of honesty. This is moving toward fraud as protected speech.


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 Post subject: Re: Fake Health Centers
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:29 pm 
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So, quite a few folks have been talking about these places recently.

So-called "Crisis Pregnancy Centers". This article in HuffPo is by Lizz Winstead.

l Was Tricked By A ‘Fake Reproductive Health Center.’ Now I’m Fighting For Other Women
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/fa ... 4a8b27fc0b

Most people have never heard of “fake reproductive health centers” and yet there are over 4,000 of them across the country. These centers pose as women’s health clinics, despite often having no licensed medical professionals on staff. They exist solely for the purpose of luring women in the door and counseling them against abortion. Compare that to the just under 800 comprehensive reproductive healthcare clinics that provide a wide range of actual medical care, including abortion.

The “crisis pregnancy center” that lured me in and deceived me is the exact kind of fake clinic that SCOTUS, in a 5-4 decision in NIFLA v. Becerra last week, ruled has the constitutional right to deceive women about their reproductive care.

National Institute of Family and Life Advocates (NIFLA) is the organization representing fake clinics in this case, and Attorney General of California Xavier Becerra represented the state. The case is pretty simple: In 2015, the state of California passed a law called, “The FACT Act”― simple legislation with two requirements:

First, it requires any licensed community clinic whose “primary purpose is providing family planning or pregnancy-related services” to disclose to all patients that the state of California offers “free or low-cost contraception, prenatal care, and abortion.” This is important. The FACT Act doesn’t require them to refer or promote any of these services, it simply requires they must let the patient know the state provides them at low or no cost.

Second, the law also requires that the unlicensed fake clinics disclose in both their facilities and in their ads that they are not licensed, medical providers.

NIFLA argued that enforcing laws that require transparency in health care is “forced speech” and violates the First Amendment and the Supreme Court agreed. What this means is that any licensed community clinic that provides reproductive care and is opposed to abortion can legally deny pregnant people information about how to access one. Even worse, the decision grants unlicensed, sham clinics the constitutional right to continue hiding the fact that they are not REAL health care providers, allows them to continue to dress up in lab coats impersonating doctors, to perform ultrasounds, give women whatever results they feel like and then lie to you and me about the safety of abortion or how to even access abortion.

[snip]

With deceptive sounding names like “Choices for Women” or “Pregnancy Decision Health Center,” these sham artists operate, not only with impunity but are also outright predatory. They often open up right next door to abortion providers and will approach women heading to their actual appointments to lure them over to their facilities. This is done to confuse patients and trick them into walking into the wrong door or building, causing them to miss their actual appointment. Their strategies are endless, manipulative, and terrifying.

With deceptive sounding names like “Choices for Women” or “Pregnancy Decision Health Center,” these sham artists operate, not only with impunity but are also outright predatory.
The stone cold truth about this case and the people who filed it is this:

These fake women’s health centers have built an industry out of lying to women about their health care options. They are so committed to deception, they fought all the way to the Supreme Court to defend their “right” to do so and last week, the Supreme Court ruled in their favor. So here we are, living in a country where lying to women is now a First Amendment right.

Maybe you don’t believe in abortion. Maybe you think people shouldn’t choose to have one. But do you believe that it should be legal for fake doctors to lure desperate pregnant people into a fake clinic for the sole purpose of misleading them about their health care options? Do you think people seeking medical care should be tricked into doing what someone else thinks is right?

This ruling allows people to stalk women in need; it allows them to lie to them and shame them in their most vulnerable hour.


[snip][end]

I think the SCOTUS ruling was wrong.

Yes, I think people should be able to offer people information about alternative options to abortion. Of course. BTW, Planned Parenthood clinics almost always DO discuss alternatives with their patients as well. Where I think Lizz is right, and SCOTUS is wrong, is that these clinics do not have a "right" to deceive people. They are not staffed by medical professionals, usually only by religious zealots. They do not (unlike PP) offer patients their full range of options. In fact, they purposely and deceptively refuse to offer a discussion of abortion as a legal alternative. You have no way of knowing this by the way they describe and advertise themselves. The problem is false advertising.

These so-called women's health clinics in fact usually have no one on staff with any medical training in women's health. Thus, the very way they advertise themselves is a deceptive lie.

Deception and fraud is not protected by the 1st amendment.


For the most part deception is protected. Fraud requires specific elements and it' a good bet the lawyers have properly schooled the operators to steer clear of those elements.

These "Health Centers" are straight up full bore anti-abortion. And they are private. The last thing they want is to direct someone to an abortion clinic. Kinda defeats the purpose. The State has no right to force them to speak of other options. SCOTUS got it right. First Amendment is sacrosanct.


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 Post subject: Re: Fake Health Centers
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:48 pm 
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For the most part deception is protected. Fraud requires specific elements and it' a good bet the lawyers have properly schooled the operators to steer clear of those elements.

These "Health Centers" are straight up full bore anti-abortion. And they are private. The last thing they want is to direct someone to an abortion clinic. Kinda defeats the purpose. The State has no right to force them to speak of other options. SCOTUS got it right. First Amendment is sacrosanct.

Your last statement is inaccurate. You do NOT have unlimited freedom of speech. You should know better.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_St ... exceptions

I would add as a point of opinion that so-called free speech zones such as employed during political conventions are precisely designed to limit speech by limiting its availability and impact.

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 Post subject: Re: Fake Health Centers
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:54 pm 
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Unless these centers are completely nonprofit, they are engaging in commercial speech.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commercial_speech

At the outset, we must determine whether the expression is protected by the First Amendment. For commercial speech to come within that provision, it at least must concern lawful activity and not be misleading.

[snip]

Zauderer found that the government can mandate commercial speech to include "purely factual and uncontroversial information" when it is reasonably related to the government's interest and "to dissipate the possibility of consumer confusion or deception"

[snip][end]

Our right to honest speech is sacrosanct. Our right to lie and bullshit is not.

They cannot claim to be health clinics and not offer health services. THAT is FRAUD.

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 Post subject: Re: Fake Health Centers
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:07 pm 
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this is not a surprize or shock. theyve been gaslighting women in this country since white people
hit the east coast.

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They are racists hate mongers I piss down the throats of these Nazis Im too old to worry whether they like it Fuck them.
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 Post subject: Re: Fake Health Centers
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:50 pm 
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Unless these centers are completely nonprofit, they are engaging in commercial speech.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commercial_speech

At the outset, we must determine whether the expression is protected by the First Amendment. For commercial speech to come within that provision, it at least must concern lawful activity and not be misleading.

[snip]

Zauderer found that the government can mandate commercial speech to include "purely factual and uncontroversial information" when it is reasonably related to the government's interest and "to dissipate the possibility of consumer confusion or deception"

[snip][end]





Our right to honest speech is sacrosanct. Our right to lie and bullshit is not.

They cannot claim to be health clinics and not offer health services. THAT is FRAUD.


You can bet these organizations are 501c's

Our right to lie and bullshit is every bit as sacrosanct.

No it isn't fraud. Not even close.


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 Post subject: Re: Fake Health Centers
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:45 am 
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In the dissenting opinion for National Institute of Family and Life Advocates v. Becerra, Breyer wrote "a Constitution that allows States to insist that medical providers tell women about the possibility of adoption should also allow States similarly to insist that medical providers tell women about the possibility of abortion".

https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/1 ... 0_5368.pdf


I think the California Legislature made a mistake in writing this law in that they tailored it to apply to only these anti abortion clinics. Had they written the notification requirement such that it applied to all clinics including the ones providing abortion who get paid through the support the state provides perhaps the law would not have not been ruled unconstitutional.

Where I got that idea was when I read about the oral arguments at SCOTUS blog I learned that Justice Kagan asked if the law was gerrymandered suggesting that she thought the state had tailored it to apply to only these clinics. Because she used the word gerrymandered in that question it was clear that she was concerned about it. At that time I thought the law would be struck down with 6-3 decision or more, not a 5-4. In any case when I read about the oral arguments I was pretty sure the law was going to be found unconstitutional.

Perhaps the legislature can take the matter back up and try again this time repairing this flaw.


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 Post subject: Re: Fake Health Centers
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:08 am 
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Our right to lie and bullshit is every bit as sacrosanct.


Yes, it seems to be very important to you.

Quote:
No it isn't fraud. Not even close.


[from Wiki]
In law, fraud is deliberate deception to secure unfair or unlawful gain, or to deprive a victim of a legal right.

Abortion is a legal right.

McNeal: Crisis pregnancy centers are a fraud, threat to women’s health
https://coloradopolitics.com/mcneal-cri ... ns-health/

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 Post subject: Re: Fake Health Centers
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:35 am 
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crisis_pr ... nformation

CPCs have frequently been found to disseminate false medical information.[10][11][38] In some cases such information may be based on decades-old studies that have been discredited by more recent research.[13] In others, CPCs may falsely claim to be describing an existing scientific consensus.[11] CPCs' false information is usually about the supposed health risks of abortion, saying, for example, that abortion is much less safe for pregnant women than childbirth when the opposite is true.[9][13][28]

One common medical claim is the assertion of a link between abortion and breast cancer. Crisis pregnancy centers have told clients that their chances of getting breast cancer increase dramatically after abortion.[3][9][10][13][26][28][43][44][45][46][35] Major medical bodies (including the National Cancer Institute[47]) say that there is no link between abortion and breast cancer.[13][26][43]

Another assertion is that of a link between abortion and mental health problems. CPC counselors have warned clients of severely negative psychological consequences, including high rates of depression, "post-abortion syndrome", post-traumatic stress disorder, suicide, substance abuse, sexual and relationship dysfunction, propensity to child abuse, and other emotional problems.[4][9][13][26][46][48][49][50][35] Neither the American Psychiatric Association nor the American Psychological Association recognizes the existence of "post-abortion syndrome", and an American Psychological Association review of relevant studies found that "abortion is usually psychologically benign."[26] The Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists finds no evidence to support an increased likelihood of abuse.[50]

CPCs may also claim that surgical abortion is a dangerous procedure, with a high risk of perforation or infection and death.[4][13][45][48][49][51] In fact, the risk of complications requiring hospitalization after an abortion is approximately 2 in 1,000 in the US.[52] The alleged risk of perforation and infection is also part of the assertion that abortion negatively impacts future childbearing, by increasing the risk of infertility, miscarriages, complications, ectopic pregnancy, or fetal health problems.[9][13][46][48][49][50] These claims are not supported by medical data.[49][50]

CPCs have also been found to disseminate misinformation about birth control methods, in particular the idea that contraception and condoms do not work or have harmful effects.[13][26][51]

False information about pregnancy and the female body[49][51] or about fetal development[45] may also be provided, as may misinformation about the availability of abortion in early pregnancy[45][49][53] and the rate of postpartum depression among women who carry to term,[54][better source needed] CPCs may also misinform women about their stage of pregnancy in order to prevent them from seeking an abortion until it is no longer legally possible.[55][56][57]

[snip][end]

https://www.justia.com/consumer/decepti ... practices/

Medical products, including pharmaceuticals, medical devices, and dietary supplements may be the subject of deceptive, fraudulent, or false advertising. The FDA has authority to investigate false or misleading claims about controlled drugs and medical devices. The Federal Trade Commission (FTC) and state attorneys general may pursue companies that make deceptive or misleading claims about a medical or health product under false advertising laws. Additionally, laws regulating dangerous or defective products may allow consumers injured by a fraudulently marketed drug or medical device to recover damages.

[snip][end]

They are making false medical claims. That is known as quackery and selling snake oil.

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Fake Health Centers
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:45 am 
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Incidentally, CPCs are pretty much all run by religious organizations, and many receive federal funds.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crisis_pr ... nt_funding

As of July, 2006, 50 American CPCs had received federal funding.[54] Between 2001 and 2006, over $60 million in federal funds were given to crisis pregnancy centers, much of it coming from funding for abstinence-only programs provided under the conservative George W. Bush administration.[18]

In 2006, 20 U.S. states subsidized crisis pregnancy centers.[4] These included Florida, Louisiana, Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, North Dakota, Pennsylvania, and Texas.[3] Efforts are led by anti-abortion Republicans.[113] Some CPCs in Canada have received funding from provincial governments.[114] In 29 U.S. states,[115] individuals can support CPCs by purchasing Choose Life license plates. Motorists in these states can request these plates and pay an extra fee, a portion of which is used by the state to fund adoption support organizations and crisis pregnancy centers.[116] In July 2013, then governor of Rhode Island Lincoln Chafee vetoed a bill for the license plates saying that in his opinion it violated the separation of church and state.

[snip][end]

Now, Gov. Chafee, I knew there was some stuff I liked about you. Spot on! And go metric system. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Fake Health Centers
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:39 am 
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If there is fraud the State will act - don't see a lot of action.

One persons misinformation is another's opinion and the courts tend to stay away from those issues.


I don't want to go down the slippery slope on 1st amendment rights. You and yours seem to favor it but fortunately the courts don't.


Those clinics are very likely religious organization's funded by religious entities with every right to do what they do.


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 Post subject: Re: Fake Health Centers
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:48 am 
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First Amendment is sacrosanct.


:problem: conservatives, cultish mentality, and the propensity for believing in self-generated lies...

Do you worship words on a piece of paper?

The First amendment is not "sacrosanct", it's just the first of many amendments to the Constitution. The Constitution is not sacred scripture or holy writ, it's the basis of American law.

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 Post subject: Re: Fake Health Centers
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:51 am 
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:problem: conservatives, cultish mentality, and the propensity for believing in self-generated lies...

Do you worship words on a piece of paper?

The First amendment is not "sacrosanct", it's just the first of many amendments to the Constitution. The Constitution is not sacred scripture or holy writ, it's the basis of American law.


But I am a conservative and my real goal is to actually END all liberals and minorities.

I wish one of them would just fucking SAY that one of these days.

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 Post subject: Re: Fake Health Centers
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:29 pm 
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If there is fraud the State will act - don't see a lot of action.


NIFLA vs. Becerra started and got to SCOTUS because of a state acting ... California. BTW, not the only one.

Quote:
One persons misinformation is another's opinion and the courts tend to stay away from those issues.


You seem well versed in living by that precept ... except, in the field of medicine, telling people that ingesting cyanide is good for you is an opinion that is medical misinformation aka malpractice, and can definitely result in legal action.

Quote:
Those clinics are very likely religious organization's funded by religious entities with every right to do what they do.


Uh huh. Which is exactly why BTW I'd love to leave them alone if they followed two rules:

1) told people what they really are (Religious Zealots R Us) and did not pretend to be medical clinics with accurate medical information. Stop the deception, then fine, you can continue to operate. If people WANT to be told by religious zealots what to do with their pregnancy, well just let them know that's the "advice" they are getting up front.
2) didn't receive government funding, which violates the separation of church and state.

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 Post subject: Re: Fake Health Centers
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:32 pm 
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Surely they do NOT receive govt funding? I assumed not and didnt bother with this thread, if so that should make your entire body TREMBLE with RAGE

People who argue with you on this topic want to KILL WOMEN for choosing reproductive healthcare they disagree with.

Yes

KILL

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Last edited by Libertas on Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Fake Health Centers
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:34 pm 
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Read up about 5 posts. I just posted on that.

Not all do - but some do, and have been receiving funding from the gov't since Bush.

BTW, note the irony - Hyde Amendment prevents government funding for abortion providers, but the government does provide funding for deceptive "Crisis Pregnancy Centers".

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 Post subject: Re: Fake Health Centers
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:35 pm 
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Read up about 5 posts. I just posted on that.

Not all do - but some do, and have been receiving funding from the gov't since Bush.

BTW, note the irony - Hyde Amendment prevents government funding for abortion providers, but the government does provide funding for deceptive "Crisis Pregnancy Centers".

Yes or no, do they want to see women disobeying bleeding to death in back alleys.

Yes or no.

You know what I mean by disobeying, anyone having sex without their permission or with anybody BUT them.

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 Post subject: Re: Fake Health Centers
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:51 pm 
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NIFLA vs. Becerra started and got to SCOTUS because of a state acting ... California. BTW, not the only one.



You seem well versed in living by that precept ... except, in the field of medicine, telling people that ingesting cyanide is good for you is an opinion that is medical misinformation aka malpractice, and can definitely result in legal action.



Uh huh. Which is exactly why BTW I'd love to leave them alone if they followed two rules:

1) told people what they really are (Religious Zealots R Us) and did not pretend to be medical clinics with accurate medical information. Stop the deception, then fine, you can continue to operate. If people WANT to be told by religious zealots what to do with their pregnancy, well just let them know that's the "advice" they are getting up front.
2) didn't receive government funding, which violates the separation of church and state.

Just one reason why I am a strict separationist.

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 Post subject: Re: Fake Health Centers
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:52 pm 
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NIFLA vs. Becerra started and got to SCOTUS because of a state acting ... California. BTW, not the only one.



You seem well versed in living by that precept ... except, in the field of medicine, telling people that ingesting cyanide is good for you is an opinion that is medical misinformation aka malpractice, and can definitely result in legal action.



Uh huh. Which is exactly why BTW I'd love to leave them alone if they followed two rules:

1) told people what they really are (Religious Zealots R Us) and did not pretend to be medical clinics with accurate medical information. Stop the deception, then fine, you can continue to operate. If people WANT to be told by religious zealots what to do with their pregnancy, well just let them know that's the "advice" they are getting up front.
2) didn't receive government funding, which violates the separation of church and state.


It wasn't a State action charging fraud.

The cyanide comment is just stupid.

You are leaving them alone simply by bloviating from a keyboard to the choir.

Fortunately you don't get to make those two rules.

And real life goes on.


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 Post subject: Re: Fake Health Centers
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:07 pm 
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It wasn't a State action charging fraud.

The cyanide comment is just stupid.

You are leaving them alone simply by bloviating from a keyboard to the choir.

Fortunately you don't get to make those two rules.

And real life goes on.


Folks who worship pieces of paper aren't very well qualified to comment on what real life is.

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 Post subject: Re: Fake Health Centers
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:08 pm 
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Folks who worship pieces of paper aren't very well qualified to comment on what real life is.


I just wish the TRAITORS would leave us patriots alone, we have work to do, saving the country and all, saving it from TRAITORS.

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 Post subject: Re: Fake Health Centers
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:17 pm 
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Fortunately you don't get to make those two rules.


Correct. My legislators do. BTW, they don't think either of those issues constitute 'bloviating' but are quite real.

And, their opinion matters more to me than you. :D

Your bloviation aside, let's remember one thing: there's only one person in this thread proclaiming that the "right" to deceive and misinform people is "sacrosanct," and it ain't me ... it's someone who claims to work in a library. :|

The librarians at my university are there to help people find out truth. Not protect bullshit and lies.

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Last edited by ProfessorX on Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Fake Health Centers
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:46 pm 
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John Oliver on Crisis Pregnancy Centers. I'll let him bloviate for now. :D

www.youtube.com Video from : www.youtube.com


BTW, I really like his points on how deceptive these places can be. Odd how some folks want to protect deceptive practices.

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