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 Post subject: Re: groper, NATO
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:36 pm 
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Yep.

The other thing to consider it public awareness. This has to be delivered strategically for public consumption and digestion over a period of time to make the public aware of what's happening. Pubic perception is important. Which is why we see tidbits and bomb shells unloaded from one week to the next. The stuff Trump and friends call, "fake news."


Let's please be prepared for 35% of the population or 50% of the voting public to do whatever is physically necessary to continue to support the traitor.
That is what will happen when the KGB hacks the machines to make it look like democrats switched R to D votes.

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trea·son - the crime of betraying one's country
pa·tri·ot·ism - the quality of being patriotic; vigorous support for one's country.


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 Post subject: Re: groper, NATO
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:49 pm 
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No, you're making shit up.



Bullshit, I am putting forth a reasoned and well thought out response to why Trump is not a Russian Agent and how you and most others here are having kneejerk reactions to Trump winning the WH. Now I believe we can both agree there would be nothing more dangerous than having a Russian Agent in the WH.

Lets just take your belief and discount the others as being to far out to even consider. Your's being that Trump is a Russian Agent. Now if that were true don't you think that Mueller would have known and/or found out about it in the first weeks if not days of his investigation.

Now once he uncovered that fact before he had enough concrete evidence to indict Trump, wouldn't such knowledge cause Mueller to worry enough about what could happen to our nation that he would act. By going to congressional leaders and informing them exactly what is going on and how we need to get Trump out of the WH now.

Don't you think that those leaders from both parties would be falling all over each other to appear the most patriotic in protecting our nation from a Russian agent. Of course they would.

Or, don't you think that Mueller would make it crystal clear to Trump what he knew and that if Trump didn't step down he [ Mueller] would make sure Trump spent the rest of his life in prison.

One thing for sure, if your personal belief is accurate that Trump is a Russian agent, Mueller knows so and has known so long before you knew it. He certainly would not allow a Russian agent to sit in the oval office for two years.

_________________
"my choice is for people like you to be deported -Ike Bana 5/13/18

"within weeks of being rid of the likes of you, rid of every fucking one of you,we would begin to see what kind of country this ought to be" Ike Bana 6/14/18


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 Post subject: Re: groper, NATO
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:52 pm 
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Drak, bless you.

If the person in question was Obama or Hillary or Biden, and there were dozens of indictments, thousands of lies, hundreds of examples of emoluments clause violations along with obstruction of justice and collusion, as there is ON RECORD for rump, if that was happening with any Democrat Glen would be running into walls at 100 MPH demanding the world stop turning on its axis until justice was done.

But it is a republican, so something Ronald Reagan would DEMAND instant impeachment of, the glen's of the country simply dont care. In this case it does not matter rump is doing everything Reagan would have been against in a huge way, Reagan is dead so they can pretend the issue doesnt exist.

He is a traitor and so is anyone who supports OR excuses him.


I notice you have no response to my rational and reasoned question. Beyond the usual clichés. Why has Mueller allowed a Russian agent and traitor to spend close to two years in the oval office?

_________________
"my choice is for people like you to be deported -Ike Bana 5/13/18

"within weeks of being rid of the likes of you, rid of every fucking one of you,we would begin to see what kind of country this ought to be" Ike Bana 6/14/18


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 Post subject: Re: groper, NATO
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:54 pm 
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Mueller already has everything he needs. The thing is, SIGINT burns methods and sources. You need to back it up with key witnesses, which you get from indictments and plea deals.

No Glen, you don't make sense. You don't even know what's going on.

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“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness”. — John Kenneth Galbraith
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 Post subject: Re: groper, NATO
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:58 pm 
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Bullshit, I am putting forth a reasoned and well thought out response to why Trump is not a Russian Agent and how you and most others here are having kneejerk reactions to Trump winning the WH. Now I believe we can both agree there would be nothing more dangerous than having a Russian Agent in the WH.

Lets just take your belief and discount the others as being to far out to even consider. Your's being that Trump is a Russian Agent. Now if that were true don't you think that Mueller would have known and/or found out about it in the first weeks if not days of his investigation.

Now once he uncovered that fact before he had enough concrete evidence to indict Trump, wouldn't such knowledge cause Mueller to worry enough about what could happen to our nation that he would act. By going to congressional leaders and informing them exactly what is going on and how we need to get Trump out of the WH now.

Don't you think that those leaders from both parties would be falling all over each other to appear the most patriotic in protecting our nation from a Russian agent. Of course they would.

Or, don't you think that Mueller would make it crystal clear to Trump what he knew and that if Trump didn't step down he [ Mueller] would make sure Trump spent the rest of his life in prison.

One thing for sure, if your personal belief is accurate that Trump is a Russian agent, Mueller knows so and has known so long before you knew it. He certainly would not allow a Russian agent to sit in the oval office for two years.

But Mueller has to have ALL his ducks in a row. He can't go off half cocked - he can't bring half a case. People like you won't believe him no matter what he brings forth.

Here's the thing - You've been a big fan of Trump's for years. You called him a "genius" and a "great businessman". So, here's what you're doing. You're starting with the proposition that Trump just can't be guilty. So, if he is innocent, why is he doing the things he's doing?

So, from there, you're just spinning yarns. Just making shit up.

And here's the thing - If Trump were innocent, he'd be clearing him NOW. Not indicting all those around him. He wouldn't demand to interview him. His former campaign people and his lawyer are suddenly willing to give him up. When he makes deals with them, it isn't to get those below them. It's to get those above him.

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glenfs, July 4, 2018:

"You would think that after 8 years of hearing allegations against Bill C and another 8 against President Obama you people would have learned that 90% of those types of allegations just aren't true."


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 Post subject: Re: groper, NATO
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:01 pm 
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Mueller already has everything he needs. The thing is, SIGINT burns methods and sources. You need to back it up with key witnesses, which you get from indictments and plea deals.

No Glen, you don't make sense. You don't even know what's going on.


No, I know if we did have a Russian agent in the oval office that Mueller and all high ranking elected gov't officials would be aware of it and they would have removed Trump from office well before now.

That is the problem with conspiracy theories, when you look at them rationally they fall apart. Evidently you and GoUnion who is surprisingly missing....Hmmmmm from this discussion must believe that Mueller, Pelosi, Schumer, McConnell, Ryan and many many others are just knowingly allowing a man who is a Russian agent sit in the oval office due to protocol.

_________________
"my choice is for people like you to be deported -Ike Bana 5/13/18

"within weeks of being rid of the likes of you, rid of every fucking one of you,we would begin to see what kind of country this ought to be" Ike Bana 6/14/18


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 Post subject: Re: groper, NATO
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:05 pm 
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No, I know if we did have a Russian agent in the oval office that Mueller and all high ranking elected gov't officials would be aware of it and they would have removed Trump from office well before now.

That is the problem with conspiracy theories, when you look at them rationally they fall apart. Evidently you and GoUnion who is surprisingly missing....Hmmmmm from this discussion must believe that Mueller, Pelosi, Schumer, McConnell, Ryan and many many others are just knowingly allowing a man who is a Russian agent sit in the oval office due to protocol.

Sadly, the GOP, and yourself, have decided that power is far more important than patriotism.

Hilariously, your position is this: All these people all around Trump are guilty, guilty, guilty, but Trump himself is purely innocent, and how do you know that? How do you know that Mueller isn't building an ironclad case against Trump, ensuring everyone will turn against him and testify?

Why, because Mueller hasn't taken him out yet!

Such is #glenlogic.

_________________
glenfs, July 4, 2018:

"You would think that after 8 years of hearing allegations against Bill C and another 8 against President Obama you people would have learned that 90% of those types of allegations just aren't true."


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 Post subject: Re: groper, NATO
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:05 pm 
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But Mueller has to have ALL his ducks in a row. He can't go off half cocked - he can't bring half a case. People like you won't believe him no matter what he brings forth.

Here's the thing - You've been a big fan of Trump's for years. You called him a "genius" and a "great businessman". So, here's what you're doing. You're starting with the proposition that Trump just can't be guilty. So, if he is innocent, why is he doing the things he's doing?

So, from there, you're just spinning yarns. Just making shit up.

And here's the thing - If Trump were innocent, he'd be clearing him NOW. Not indicting all those around him. He wouldn't demand to interview him. His former campaign people and his lawyer are suddenly willing to give him up. When he makes deals with them, it isn't to get those below them. It's to get those above him.



If Trump is guilty of lessor offensives that would be one thing. But, you believe him to be a Russian agent. If that is true everyone in power would know so and I doubt they would let protocol to allow Trump to remain in office.

There would be private meetings, there would be public leaks, there would be press conferences there would be congressional leaders telling Trump to leave office or risk life in prison. What there wouldn't be is all these leaders from different parties and different political beliefs sitting around and allowing a Russian agent to remain as president.

Again, this is what happens to conspiracy theories when you look at them rationally.

_________________
"my choice is for people like you to be deported -Ike Bana 5/13/18

"within weeks of being rid of the likes of you, rid of every fucking one of you,we would begin to see what kind of country this ought to be" Ike Bana 6/14/18


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 Post subject: Re: groper, NATO
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:05 pm 
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Go back to watching Law and Order Glen, that's not how things work. Mueller doesn't have the power to remove the president.

This isn't conspiracy theories. There's a very real investigation going on. There are record indictments, arrests and plea deals happening. Trump's lawyer is constantly on TV defending his client against a Meuller interview, and Trump is constantly trashing the rule of law and Mueller over social media.

You refuse to read about anything that's happening. Like I said, you have no clue.

_________________
“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness”. — John Kenneth Galbraith
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 Post subject: Re: groper, NATO
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:08 pm 
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Sadly, the GOP, and yourself, have decided that power is far more important than patriotism.

Hilariously, your position is this: All these people all around Trump are guilty, guilty, guilty, but Trump himself is purely innocent, and how do you know that? How do you know that Mueller isn't building an ironclad case against Trump, ensuring everyone will turn against him and testify?

Why, because Mueller hasn't taken him out yet!

Such is #glenlogic.


See there you go with more clichéd nonsense. If Trump were a Russian agent GOP leaders as well as democratic party leaders would be falling all over themselves to be the first to force him from office. Painting themselves as a super patriot and the party and the person who saved the republic.

_________________
"my choice is for people like you to be deported -Ike Bana 5/13/18

"within weeks of being rid of the likes of you, rid of every fucking one of you,we would begin to see what kind of country this ought to be" Ike Bana 6/14/18


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 Post subject: Re: groper, NATO
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:10 pm 
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If Trump is guilty of lessor offensives that would be one thing. But, you believe him to be a Russian agent. If that is true everyone in power would know so and I doubt they would let protocol to allow Trump to remain in office.

There would be private meetings, there would be public leaks, there would be press conferences there would be congressional leaders telling Trump to leave office or risk life in prison. What there wouldn't be is all these leaders from different parties and different political beliefs sitting around and allowing a Russian agent to remain as president.

Again, this is what happens to conspiracy theories when you look at them rationally.

Hilarious, this from the guy who believes everything about the Clintons, even thought THEY'VE been cleared investigation after investigation except they proved that Bill got a BJ.

I believe Putin to have a lot of dirt on Trump, there's no other reason that Trump will never say anything bad about Putin. Putin is KGB through and through. He's a man who's looking for ways to destroy our nation, bit by bit. Trump is doing his bidding. It's easy to see.

He's even demanding a completely private meeting with Putin, without anyone else present. We already know he's given up Israeli intelligence. What is it this time?

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glenfs, July 4, 2018:

"You would think that after 8 years of hearing allegations against Bill C and another 8 against President Obama you people would have learned that 90% of those types of allegations just aren't true."


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 Post subject: Re: groper, NATO
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:10 pm 
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See there you go with more clichéd nonsense. If Trump were a Russian agent GOP leaders as well as democratic party leaders would be falling all over themselves to be the first to force him from office. Painting themselves as a super patriot and the party and the person who saved the republic.

Uh, right, because they obviously have the power to do so.

Thanks for playing Grasping for Straws!

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glenfs, July 4, 2018:

"You would think that after 8 years of hearing allegations against Bill C and another 8 against President Obama you people would have learned that 90% of those types of allegations just aren't true."


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 Post subject: Re: groper, NATO
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:12 pm 
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Glen's defense of Trump rests on two points:

1. He's a complete idiot and fool.
2. He's the greatest genius in the world.

At the same time. For any Trump action, glen submits one of these two defenses.

_________________
glenfs, July 4, 2018:

"You would think that after 8 years of hearing allegations against Bill C and another 8 against President Obama you people would have learned that 90% of those types of allegations just aren't true."


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 Post subject: Re: groper, NATO
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:14 pm 
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Go back to watching Law and Order Glen, that's not how things work. Mueller doesn't have the power to remove the president.

This isn't conspiracy theories. There's a very real investigation going on. There are record indictments, arrests and plea deals happening. Trump's lawyer is constantly on TV defending his client against a Meuller interview, and Trump is constantly trashing the rule of law and Mueller over social media.

You refuse to read about anything that's happening. Like I said, you have no clue.



If trump were a Russian agent as GoU and others here believe, it would be a OMG moment. Mueller would immediately let congressional leaders know, who would immediately take whatever steps were necessary in removing him from office.

While you law and Order line is cute, it just doesn't work here. In essence what you are saying is Mueller and all aforementioned congressional leaders know Trump is a Russian agent but, instead of taking whatever steps needed to remove him from office immediately. They are goin g to let him be president for 2 to 4 years because of protocol.

Now take a breath and think about that. According to you everyone in power knows Trump is a Russian agent but are allowing him to remain in office until it can be proven in court by the rules of evidence. Then if the evidence needed never surfaces or takes close to 4 years. Those same leaders are ok with allowing an agent of Putin to run our country.

Sorry, your conspiracy theory just fell apart.

_________________
"my choice is for people like you to be deported -Ike Bana 5/13/18

"within weeks of being rid of the likes of you, rid of every fucking one of you,we would begin to see what kind of country this ought to be" Ike Bana 6/14/18


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 Post subject: Re: groper, NATO
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:17 pm 
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glen, you don't know how Mueller would do stuff. You're just making this up. You don't bring a President down without having a complete case. Mueller's investigation is obviously building up to taking out the top man. You've watched too much TV, and think it can be done in 45 minutes timed for the end of the show.

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glenfs, July 4, 2018:

"You would think that after 8 years of hearing allegations against Bill C and another 8 against President Obama you people would have learned that 90% of those types of allegations just aren't true."


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 Post subject: Re: groper, NATO
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:19 pm 
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Glen's defense of Trump rests on two points:

1. He's a complete idiot and fool.
2. He's the greatest genius in the world.

At the same time. For any Trump action, glen submits one of these two defenses.



So since your conspiracy theory just fell apart you choose to attack me personally...ok I get it I would do the same thing if I were in your shoes.

Mueller and all our congressional leaders know Trump is an agent of Putin but, because of protocol they are going to allow him to remain in office until it can be legally proved in court by the rules of evidence. Even to the point of allowing him to complete this term and maybe win another if that evidence cant be legally established.

Leaders of both parties and the legal authorities are currently standing by and letting Trump an agent of Russia and Putin remain in office.......Your conspiracy theory just went down in flames by using simple logic.

_________________
"my choice is for people like you to be deported -Ike Bana 5/13/18

"within weeks of being rid of the likes of you, rid of every fucking one of you,we would begin to see what kind of country this ought to be" Ike Bana 6/14/18


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 Post subject: Re: groper, NATO
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:22 pm 
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So since your conspiracy theory just fell apart you choose to attack me personally...ok I get it I would do the same thing if I were in your shoes.

No, what YOU do is start screaming "socialist" and calling me a liar.

What I did was simply point out your defenses of Trump. They always come down to one of these two things. That's no attack, just pointing out what you are doing.
Quote:
Mueller and all our congressional leaders know Trump is an agent of Putin but, because of protocol they are going to allow him to remain in office until it can be legally proved in court by the rules of evidence. Even to the point of allowing him to complete this term and maybe win another if that evidence cant be legally established.

Leaders of both parties and the legal authorities are currently standing by and letting Trump an agent of Russia and Putin remain in office.......Your conspiracy theory just went down in flames by using simple logic.

Ah, so this is your position - that if Trump were guilty, Mueller would lead a deep state revolution overthrowing a duly elected President.

Got it. :roll: :rw)

_________________
glenfs, July 4, 2018:

"You would think that after 8 years of hearing allegations against Bill C and another 8 against President Obama you people would have learned that 90% of those types of allegations just aren't true."


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 Post subject: Re: groper, NATO
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:23 pm 
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It's not only Trump. There are complicit folks that are helping to run this show.

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 Post subject: Re: groper, NATO
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:24 pm 
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glen, you don't know how Mueller would do stuff. You're just making this up. You don't bring a President down without having a complete case. Mueller's investigation is obviously building up to taking out the top man. You've watched too much TV, and think it can be done in 45 minutes timed for the end of the show.


no I am using common sense. You believe that trump is a Russian agent. we both believe that if true there could be no greater threat to our country or the world.

Well, if you know it then it stand to reason that Mueller knows it along with every member of the House and Senate. Yet somehow, through protocol or a loophole they are all standing by and allowing a Russian agent to serve as President. To the point he could serve up to 8 years. To the point that Pelosi and Schumer are calling for people like Rep waters to be more civil.

Use common sense and logic. Trump may be many things, Trump may have colluded with the Russians [you believe he did, based on what we know at this time I don't] but Trump is not a Russian agent or spy or any of the other outlandish things people here claim him to be.

Apply logic to your conspiracy theory and you will see how foolish it truly is.

_________________
"my choice is for people like you to be deported -Ike Bana 5/13/18

"within weeks of being rid of the likes of you, rid of every fucking one of you,we would begin to see what kind of country this ought to be" Ike Bana 6/14/18


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 Post subject: Re: groper, NATO
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:25 pm 
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Ah, so this is your position - that if Trump were guilty, Mueller would lead a deep state revolution overthrowing a duly elected President.

Got it. :roll: :rw)


Glen thinks we're living in a TV show or a movie.

Idiocracy is a real thing.

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“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness”. — John Kenneth Galbraith
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 Post subject: Re: groper, NATO
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:27 pm 
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No, what YOU do is start screaming "socialist" and calling me a liar.

What I did was simply point out your defenses of Trump. They always come down to one of these two things. That's no attack, just pointing out what you are doing.

Ah, so this is your position - that if Trump were guilty, Mueller would lead a deep state revolution overthrowing a duly elected President.

Got it. :roll: :rw)


No congressional leaders would inform the public in a bi-partisan way. Or they would have a private meeting with Trump and get him to step down. Or they would impeach Trump on one of the lessor charges. Making money off of being president.

One thing none of them would do is allow a Russian agent to sit in the oval office. No matter which party or what their personal political beliefs are.

_________________
"my choice is for people like you to be deported -Ike Bana 5/13/18

"within weeks of being rid of the likes of you, rid of every fucking one of you,we would begin to see what kind of country this ought to be" Ike Bana 6/14/18


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 Post subject: Re: groper, NATO
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:30 pm 
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Glen thinks we're living in a TV show or a movie.

Idiocracy is a real thing.



Again that is a really cute way to try and discredit what I have written. Especially seeing how there is no way to rationally do so. Apparently you and GoU believe our elected officials are knowingly allowing a Russian agent to be president.

Tell why would they do that?

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"my choice is for people like you to be deported -Ike Bana 5/13/18

"within weeks of being rid of the likes of you, rid of every fucking one of you,we would begin to see what kind of country this ought to be" Ike Bana 6/14/18


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 Post subject: Re: groper, NATO
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:31 pm 
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no I am using common sense. You believe that trump is a Russian agent. we both believe that if true there could be no greater threat to our country or the world.

Well, if you know it then it stand to reason that Mueller knows it along with every member of the House and Senate. Yet somehow, through protocol or a loophole they are all standing by and allowing a Russian agent to serve as President. To the point he could serve up to 8 years. To the point that Pelosi and Schumer are calling for people like Rep waters to be more civil.

Use common sense and logic. Trump may be many things, Trump may have colluded with the Russians [you believe he did, based on what we know at this time I don't] but Trump is not a Russian agent or spy or any of the other outlandish things people here claim him to be.

Apply logic to your conspiracy theory and you will see how foolish it truly is.

Look, let's just be clear - you can't be honest about my position, so you set up a strawman.

I don't say he's an agent. I don't say he's a spy. I think Putin bankrolled Trump for many years, once the banks in the US stopped loaning him money. His son said that they are getting ALL their money from Russia several years ago. Of course, now, Trump says he's never got a dime from Russia. Of course, you believe him.

I think Putin is the genius here. He's KGB all through, and they set up people all the time. Trump knows that Putin has stuff to take him down, plus he idolizes the vicious dictator. He would like to be his BF.

So, out of worship of Putin, and out of fear of him, He's doing what Putin wants. Break up NATO? No problem!

But you say that Trump is innocent, because he is simultaneously an idiot and a genius.

Mark my words, when Mueller DOES come out with the truth, you won't believe it.

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glenfs, July 4, 2018:

"You would think that after 8 years of hearing allegations against Bill C and another 8 against President Obama you people would have learned that 90% of those types of allegations just aren't true."


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 Post subject: Re: groper, NATO
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:33 pm 
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No congressional leaders would inform the public in a bi-partisan way. Or they would have a private meeting with Trump and get him to step down. Or they would impeach Trump on one of the lessor charges. Making money off of being president.

One thing none of them would do is allow a Russian agent to sit in the oval office. No matter which party or what their personal political beliefs are.

The Republican leadership has already proven that as long as Trump gives them what the want - total and lasting power by packing the Supreme Court, they don't care. It's party over country.

That and Trump scares them. Every last one of them.

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glenfs, July 4, 2018:

"You would think that after 8 years of hearing allegations against Bill C and another 8 against President Obama you people would have learned that 90% of those types of allegations just aren't true."


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 Post subject: Re: groper, NATO
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:34 pm 
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No, what YOU do is start screaming "socialist" and calling me a liar.

What I did was simply point out your defenses of Trump. They always come down to one of these two things. That's no attack, just pointing out what you are doing.

Ah, so this is your position - that if Trump were guilty, Mueller would lead a deep state revolution overthrowing a duly elected President.

Got it. :roll: :rw)


So you believe that our elected officials, all of them from all parties are allowing a Russian agent to be president. There would be no need for s "red state" revolution. There is plenty they could impeach Trump on right now if they were of a mind to do so.

The number one thing IMO they would do is allow Trump to step down for any reason he chose to make all future charges go away.

_________________
"my choice is for people like you to be deported -Ike Bana 5/13/18

"within weeks of being rid of the likes of you, rid of every fucking one of you,we would begin to see what kind of country this ought to be" Ike Bana 6/14/18


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