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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:05 pm 
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Gee, glen, you're taking your talking points straight from Trump now, aren't you? Today, via Associated Press:

WASHINGTON (AP) — President Donald Trump on Saturday tried to blame the Obama administration for not responding aggressively enough to Russian hacking of Democratic targets in the 2016 U.S. election — cyberattacks underpinning the indictment of 12 Russian military intelligence officers.

Trump’s first response to special counsel Robert Mueller’s initial charges against Russian government officials for interfering in American politics came in tweets the president posted while at his golf resort in Scotland, two days before a high-stakes summit in Finland with Russian leader Vladimir Putin.”The stories you heard about the 12 Russians yesterday took place during the Obama Administration, not the Trump Administration,” Trump tweeted. “Why didn’t they do something about it, especially when it was reported that President Obama was informed by the FBI in September, before the Election?


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:15 pm 
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Gee, glen, you're taking your talking points straight from Trump now, aren't you? Today, via Associated Press:

WASHINGTON (AP) — President Donald Trump on Saturday tried to blame the Obama administration for not responding aggressively enough to Russian hacking of Democratic targets in the 2016 U.S. election — cyberattacks underpinning the indictment of 12 Russian military intelligence officers.

Trump’s first response to special counsel Robert Mueller’s initial charges against Russian government officials for interfering in American politics came in tweets the president posted while at his golf resort in Scotland, two days before a high-stakes summit in Finland with Russian leader Vladimir Putin.”The stories you heard about the 12 Russians yesterday took place during the Obama Administration, not the Trump Administration,” Trump tweeted. “Why didn’t they do something about it, especially when it was reported that President Obama was informed by the FBI in September, before the Election?



No not at all. Personally I believe Obama [ based on what he knew and believed at that time] did the correct thing. Believing that HRC was a slam dunk, he was leaving dealing with the Russian interference to her administration. It is you who are claiming that Obama didn't speak up because he was afraid of Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan.

Now, had Obama believed for a minute that there was any way the Russian interference would help lead to a Trump win I believe he would have handled the situation much different. Unlike you I don't see President Obama as a weak person afraid of Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:17 pm 
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No not at all. Personally I believe Obama [ based on what he knew and believed at that time] did the correct thing. Believing that HRC was a slam dunk, he was leaving dealing with the Russian interference to her administration. It is you who are claiming that Obama didn't speak up because he was afraid of Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan.

Now, had Obama believed for a minute that there was any way the Russian interference would help lead to a Trump win I believe he would have handled the situation much different. Unlike you I don't see President Obama as a weak person afraid of Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan.

He was not a weak President. But what McConnell and Ryan did was wrong, but you defend and support them, and blame Obama.

Just like your man Trump. You use his talking points, on the same day.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:26 pm 
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FUCK YOU with that Bullshit. Under Reagan the Russians wouldn't have dared try to interfere with a US election. Under Obama they walked right in through Democratic Party and Democratic Candidates servers with no problem and no fear of repercussion and certainly no fear of Obama.



You sound just like Trump now. Trump's been blaming Obama for his own treason.

Hilarious how it's again confirmed the Russian's attacked and Trump is still heading off to tickle Putin's balls.

BTW, Obama brought this to the attention of Mitch McConnell in 2016. Guess what Mitch did?

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:27 pm 
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You fought for your country, really? I thought you said you were a Vietnam Vet. I guess it comes down to how a person defines fighting for their country. Fighting to save your country as my dad did in WWII and again in Korea to a lessor extent. Vs fighting for your country because you were drafted into a politically motivated war. I believe it would be more correct to say you served your country. To say you fought for your country implies you helped save it from an enemy.


Terrible thing to say. You might not like people around here, but saying something like this to a vet is pretty damned shameful.

You remind me of that dentist we had around here who went after another poster's Valor. I think her name was Jo Mac.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:19 pm 
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I talked to the recruiters and at the time starting pay was $390 a month so I passed.

Since you were born around 1958, if memory serves me correctly, the earliest you could have enlisted was in 1975 at 17 1/2 years old and the starting pay pay for a recruit was $344.10 a month ($1514.70 today). I entered in the AF on Jan 31, 1975 after having worked in the civilian world for a couple of years making more money. Sorry military pay wasn't what you thought you should get but then you always overvalued your worth.

You told gounion that you support our military so please explain how you support them. Most people I've met who claim they "support our military" that support is like the teams they follow in sports.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:27 pm 
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Fuck Off with your self righteous bullshit. Hats of to those who served in Vietnam they fought a hard fight with a short stick. The overwhelming majority were there because they had no choice. Odd how so many 45 years later tout their bravery and service. Something you seldom heard from WWII or Korean War Vets. Hell, nobody in my family ever knew my dad's destroyer was attacked and almost sunk until the internet and years after his death. The same is true for the overwhelming number of vets from his era. As opposed to today when every other day you here I served my country in Vietnam.

One thing I don't like is when someone who has never served in the military brings up their father's service as justification for their position. Your father's service reflects positively on him, not you. You're father's service or anyone in your family's service has no bearing on your position other than to try and wrap yourself in the flag and proclaim how patriotic you are.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:43 pm 
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So now we have a pissing contest over patriotism.

Some here need to read Andrew Bacevich's books. He served in Vietnam and lost a son who was serving in either Iraq or Afghanistan, I don't recall which.

WW2, while an awful conflict, was not in doubt. But first let us dispose of the canard that "we defeated Naziism." We did no such thing. The Soviets defeated the Nazis. And lost more dead in one week than the U.S. did in the entire pacific theatre. FDR and his advisors knew that the American public wouldn't countenance a long ground war in Europe. So FDR decided to let the Soviets do the bleeding. And bleed they did. Of course when Uncle Joe said not inch backwards there were people there to enforce that.

The Russians tied-up the Germans on the Russian Front for years providing time for the U.S., England, and the rest of the Allied Forces time to retake Western Europe.

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I, for one, am tired of the militarism that pervades our foreign policy and is used to browbeat people over domestic policy.

Same here. The first thing the chickenhawks do is to threaten use of U.S. military rather than through other means. Like Maslow said "If all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail." Or, as Isaac Asimov once wrote "Violence is last resort of the incompetent."

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Someone on this board served then I say thanks. Someone didn't then that's OK too. Patriotism is not solely defined by serving in the military. It is also defined by serving in government, volunteering to help those less fortunate, working to make the country a better place.

Quit spraying the piss around.

I don't dis anyone who has served honorably whether they volunteered or were drafted.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:01 pm 
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FUCK YOU with that Bullshit. Under Reagan the Russians wouldn't have dared try to interfere with a US election. Under Obama they walked right in through Democratic Party and Democratic Candidates servers with no problem and no fear of repercussion and certainly no fear of Obama.


Sorry glen, I'm a Married Man and I'm Straight. Russian directly interferred in 2016 Election, which of course you do not talk about. Leave a lying Southern Con to say shit like that.

And actually it was McChinless who blocked Obama from taking any real action against Russia.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:28 pm 
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glen you are a Chicken Shit Chicken Hawk. Shut the fuck about about you support the troops. You cared more for your wallet than your country. You're just as much coward as 45 was. You talk about your Father's Service, like that gives you something. It does not.

But how can you support a lying Draft Dodging Coward who saluted a North Korean Communist General glen? Is that how you honor your Father's Service? By supporting a pathetic POS who salutes Communists glen?

Fuck You and Fuck Your Hero of Russia AssI hat Draft Dodging Coward.

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Glenfs posted about the Left's War On Women. Glenfs posted this after the Cosby Verdict "Gloria Allred is a media hound and an asshole. The most dangerous place to be is inbetween her and a microphone or camera". 04/27/2018.


Last edited by marindem on Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:45 pm 
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FUCK YOU with that Bullshit. Under Reagan the Russians wouldn't have dared try to interfere with a US election. Under Obama they walked right in through Democratic Party and Democratic Candidates servers with no problem and no fear of repercussion and certainly no fear of Obama.


^can't get much more ahistorical than this.

a. "Under Reagan" was also before Glasnost and Perestroika
b. "Under Reagan" coincides with that thing called the Cold War
c. The world did not have "the internet" or "social media" yet, "Under Reagan"
d. Putin was a KGB guy at the time

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:02 pm 
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No not at all.


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You really should read the indictment of the 12 Russian military people from yesterday to know what Donald Trump is trying to deflect from. It will open your eyes

https://www.vox.com/2018/7/13/17568806/ ... -full-text

Same for the indictment of the 13 Russian troll farm dorks

https://www.justice.gov/file/1035477/download

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Last edited by carmenjonze on Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:06 pm 
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The Russians tied-up the Germans on the Russian Front for years providing time for the U.S., England, and the rest of the Allied Forces time to retake Western Europe.


Same here. The first thing the chickenhawks do is to threaten use of U.S. military rather than through other means. Like Maslow said "If all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail." Or, as Isaac Asimov once wrote "Violence is last resort of the incompetent."


I don't dis anyone who has served honorably whether they volunteered or were drafted.

The soviets collapsed the eastern front. Imo, had we not invaded they would have eventually rolled the whole damn thing up. Of course we will never know because no one gets to know what would have happened. It is also possible they would have ended in a stalemate as the USSR got farther from their supply lines.

I don’t dis anyone’s service either. If drafted they did what they had to do. If they joined voluntarily then they did what they chose to do.

None of that deals with endless war and militarism. It is extremely interesting to me that this thread evolved into what it has. Perhaps we should be asking why we can’t seem to war our way to peace.

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bird's theorem-"we the people" are stupid.

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The new motto of the USA: Unum de multis. Out of one, many.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:06 pm 
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Oh, snap. Donnie stepped on his johnson and Kristol called his ass on it. Of course that is irrelevant to his base. See, it was the black guy’s fault. Just ask your average Trumper.

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bird's theorem-"we the people" are stupid.

"No one is so foolish as to choose war over peace. In peace sons bury their fathers, in war fathers bury their sons." - Herodotus

The new motto of the USA: Unum de multis. Out of one, many.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:58 pm 
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FUCK YOU with that Bullshit. Under Reagan the Russians wouldn't have dared try to interfere with a US election. Under Obama they walked right in through Democratic Party and Democratic Candidates servers with no problem and no fear of repercussion and certainly no fear of Obama.


Glen, I don't think you understood what he said. Re-read it as many times as you need to.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:38 am 
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Oh, snap. Donnie stepped on his johnson and Kristol called his ass on it. Of course that is irrelevant to his base. See, it was the black guy’s fault. Just ask your average Trumper.


Yeah they hate Bush Repubs such as Kristol, too.

Well, they like them as far as they can use them, anyway.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 2:04 am 
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Yeah they hate Bush Repubs such as Kristol, too.

Well, they like them as far as they can use them, anyway.


They call Bill Kristol and his like Democrats and Liberals. :(


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 6:16 am 
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Terrible thing to say. You might not like people around here, but saying something like this to a vet is pretty damned shameful.

You remind me of that dentist we had around here who went after another poster's Valor. I think her name was Jo Mac.



But calling me a NAZI and a traitor to my country and that I prefer Russia over the USA is fine. No double standard here at all. As for Mac he claimed to have won I believe the silver star. Whatever it was it was a very high up medal. When he passed there was no mention in his obit of winning that award. But his other ribbons wete mentioned.

If some if you are ok with personal attacks while others defend them. You should save your bull shit and fake outrage
.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 6:18 am 
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But calling me a NAZI and a traitor to my country and that I prefer Russia over the USA is fine. No double standard here at all. As for Mac he claimed to have won I believe the silver star. Whatever it was it was a very high up medal. When he passed there was no mention in his obit of winning that award. But his other ribbons wete mentioned.

If some if you are ok with personal attacks while others defend them. You should save your bull shit and fake outrage
.

Your usual double standard. You can attack us all the time, but whine when you get it back. Quit crying. Man up. You can sure dish it out, but you're too big a baby to take it.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 6:28 am 
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glen you are a Chicken Shit Chicken Hawk. Shut the fuck about you support the troops. You cared more for your wallet than your country. You're just as much coward as 45 was. You talk about your Father's Service, like that gives you something. It does not.

But how can you support a lying Draft Dodging Coward who saluted a North Korean Communist General glen? Is that how you honor your Father's Service? By supporting a pathetic POS who salutes Communists glen?

Fuck You and Fuck Your Hero of Russia AssI hat Draft Dodging Coward.


Asshole I dont support Trump Some of his proposals I do support and I like conservative judges. As for his draft dodging that is a BS claim and here is why.

Nearly everyone from that generation was doing whatever they could to avoid the draft. W Bush did, Clinton did, Obama while not of that era did not serve. Some like Gore Jr went as a political move and through family connections was kept out of harms way.

As far as draft dodging as you call it goes more than one person here avoided the draft the same as Trump. Are they also traitors in your view.

Avoiding the draft during the Vietnam era does not make a person a traitorous. Again having lived through that time it is something nearly all tried to do.

I am guessing many perhaps even you if they had it to do over would have also avoided. For all we know you like my brother-in-law may have tried to avoid it but failed and was drafted

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"within weeks of being rid of the likes of you, rid of every fucking one of you,we would begin to see what kind of country this ought to be" Ike Bana 6/14/18


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 6:31 am 
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I keep asking for a list of what you support and what you don't support with Trump. You never say. It's a bullshit passive/aggressive tactic. We see what you do on the board. We just don't let you get away with the lies.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 6:31 am 
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Your usual double standard. You can attack us all the time, but whine when you get it back. Quit crying. Man up. You can sure dish it out, but you're too big a baby to take it.


I have no double standard here. I am the one getting shit for hitting back. The funny thing is my political views are ovetall very modetate.

Now off to work. BTW if you haven't heard dont drink or cook with the water in your area without boiling.

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"my choice is for people like you to be deported -Ike Bana 5/13/18

"within weeks of being rid of the likes of you, rid of every fucking one of you,we would begin to see what kind of country this ought to be" Ike Bana 6/14/18


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 6:36 am 
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I have no double standard here. I am the one getting shit for hitting back. The funny thing is my political views are ovetall very modetate.

You act like they are, but you support the nutcases. Your party is now the Trump Party. The Party is far-right extreme.

And yes, you have a double standard. You can dish it out, but you can't take it. Grow up.
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Now off to work. BTW if you haven't heard dont drink or cook with the water in your area without boiling.

Uh, you don't have a clue. There is no such restriction where I live.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:14 am 
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Nearly everyone from that generation was doing whatever they could to avoid the draft.


Yes, many people did try ... but that kind of ignores that people from wealthy, elite families were able to pull strings to do it in ways that other families could not. Like Dubya getting into the Texas Air National Guard .... and then that weird period of going AWOL right toward the end of his service.

And the "chickenhawk" label applies to people who did this, and then turned around and suddenly became lovers of the military and veterans, and warhawks, and I don't care who wants to nominate him for what, the last thing I'd call Trump is a peacemaker ...

Finally, Trump joked on Howard Stern that though he didn't go to Vietnam, he did have to avoid STDs because of all the cheating on his wives he was doing, and that was, as he put it, "his personal Vietnam". How insulting. Then he mocked McCain for being captured.

BTW, to this day, money that Trump promised veterans from that "fundraiser" he did during the campaign has never arrived.

It came out during the Sztrok hearings that his anti-Trump tweets came right after he attacked Khizr Khan and his Gold Star family ... context, context.

There's only one thing this Agent Orange is good at ... shoveling bullshit.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:21 am 
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Yeah they hate Bush Repubs such as Kristol, too.

Well, they like them as far as they can use them, anyway.

Yeah, Trumpsters and Donnie are users and neo-cons like Kristol are users too. It was amusing though.

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bird's theorem-"we the people" are stupid.

"No one is so foolish as to choose war over peace. In peace sons bury their fathers, in war fathers bury their sons." - Herodotus

The new motto of the USA: Unum de multis. Out of one, many.


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