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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:26 pm 
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And that said spies could be so deep covered that they were BORN in the nation they are spying on.

Or they could be born here and later turned.

Do you or dont you believe, as I do, KGB and russia and putin and the men before putin have had a full time, 50 year long program to place spies in our country by the hundreds, maybe thousands?

I dont mean bots, I mean on the ground spies.

Now, if you believe that is possible or even likely, why wouldnt some of them be sitting politicians, or WORSE working at voting precincts or for companies that design software for voting? Huh?

While you ponder what that could mean to the lack of trust you would have in our voting process, think about this, what are the odds putin and the KGB developed an asset they then placed as ONE OF TWO political party nominees for OUR PRESIDENCY and then on election day they sat back and let the whole thing ride on whether WE voted for him or not? That in effect he left it up to YOU AND ME!



Yes yes yes, we do the same thing, this has nothing AT ALL whatsoever to do with that.

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"Corporate Democrat" phrase created at the same place "Angry Mob" was...People keep falling for rightwing talking points. How sad.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:28 pm 
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Why stop at 50 years?

Espionage is the world's third oldest profession, after prostitution and soldiering.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:31 pm 
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Why stop at 50 years?

Espionage is the world's third oldest profession, after prostitution and soldiering.

Didnt answer the question.

?

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"Corporate Democrat" phrase created at the same place "Angry Mob" was...People keep falling for rightwing talking points. How sad.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:54 pm 
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Yes it does. The answer is that they do have agents in this country working to destroy it. We have agents in Russia working to destroy it, or at least we did until last year. I suspect we still do. They don't all work for governments. Industrial espionage and sabotage have been around forever.

People have hired other people to covertly gather confidential information since there was confidential information to gather. People have hired people to destabilize governments as long as there were governments. The Greeks did it. The Romans did it. The Romans were actually quite good at disinformation and sowing discord.

Lots of countries do that. And we do it to them. Everybody does it to everybody. A lot of it is covert financial dealings right now, but some of that is related to spycraft. Some of the same people do both.

What we're seeing right now is that Russia is very good at it. And it goes back well more than 50 years. It goes back at least to the Cold War, which started in the late 1940s, and I would guess that it probably started closer to the early 1930s. Whatever Russia hadn't learned by Stalin's time, they picked up quickly in WWII, when their national survival was on the line - again. Russia learned a lot of this stuff the hard way.

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"Our democratic institutions... seem to have been upended by frat-boy billionaires from California," remarked Canadian politician Charlie Angus. (BBC, 11/27/18)


Last edited by ZoWie on Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:59 pm 
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So the question is not if they have people in positions to change votes one way or another, but how many and in how many different locations.

Are they using software engineers to do it or people at voting precincts, time will tell, probably both.

Until 2016 there was no reason to go all out and risk exposure to do most of this, but in 2016 with sanctions crippling the murderous punk putin, it was all or nothing AND they are not done.

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"Corporate Democrat" phrase created at the same place "Angry Mob" was...People keep falling for rightwing talking points. How sad.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:05 pm 
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They didn't cover their tracks as well as they think they did. We're onto a lot of their shit, and eventually there'll be a book about it and everyone will ask, what the fuck were we thinking?

For example, we know they got into voting databases. I can't believe the LA County Registrar actually just happened to print up the precinct rolls wrong. That has Russian test op written all over it.

Mike Farb on twitter has done a lot of technically sophisticated work that raises some very disturbing questions. No one knows if he's right -- yet.

You will run with this and say America is doomed. I'll say something closer to America is stupid and should wise up very quickly. I will add that our mission is to help wise it up. You're a bright and articulate guy. Together, we fight.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:08 pm 
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They didn't cover their tracks as well as they think they did. We're onto a lot of their shit, and eventually there'll be a book about it and everyone will ask, what the fuck were we thinking?

For example, we know they got into voting databases. I can't believe the LA County Registrar actually just happened to print up the precinct rolls wrong. That has Russian test op written all over it.

Mike Farb on twitter has done a lot of technically sophisticated work that raises some very disturbing questions. No one knows if he's right -- yet.

You will run with this and say America is doomed. I'll say something closer to America is stupid and should wise up very quickly. I will add that our mission is to help wise it up. You're a bright and articulate guy. Together, we fight.

My doomed comments are meant to remind people that it was WHINERS and cant trust hers and holding my nosers as to why we are here

THAT is the point of my doom and gloom, because NONE of this had to happen.

now, if I am right about the hacking, it is possible none of the voting behavour would have mattered regardless, but I cant and wont ever forgive those people...unless they admit they were wrong

I purposely have NOT gone back and read your or anybody else comments here about Hillary during the campaign because I dont want this to be about any of us...I dont know who here said what, I can guess but that isnt constructive...i would like to hear some people who did engage in that apologize though

whoever they are

or if not apologize at least acknowledge how that obviously is a part of the reason we are where we are

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"Corporate Democrat" phrase created at the same place "Angry Mob" was...People keep falling for rightwing talking points. How sad.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:00 pm 
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Mike Farb on twitter has done a lot of technically sophisticated work that raises some very disturbing questions. No one knows if he's right -- yet.


Yeah, I looked over his website.

https://www.unhackthevote.com/our-resea ... art-three/

Ya know, a lot of it is good generic "protect your vote" advice, and doesn't even really deal with cyber-manipulation.

But, of course, I was most interested in his research. Yeah, I'm not sure how to check his work though I can read a trace route. :D

The stuff about Trump and mysterious shadow subdomains of the Trump Org showing up in ... where else? ... Russia ... in ... when else? ... 2013 ...

Boy, that really has me old spider sense a-tingling.

I also really liked his investigation of the Russian botnet that seems to like to mix Jane Austen with porn. :D

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:19 pm 
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My doomed comments are meant to remind people that it was WHINERS and cant trust hers and holding my nosers as to why we are here

THAT is the point of my doom and gloom, because NONE of this had to happen.

now, if I am right about the hacking, it is possible none of the voting behavour would have mattered regardless, but I cant and wont ever forgive those people...unless they admit they were wrong

I purposely have NOT gone back and read your or anybody else comments here about Hillary during the campaign because I dont want this to be about any of us...I dont know who here said what, I can guess but that isnt constructive...i would like to hear some people who did engage in that apologize though

whoever they are

or if not apologize at least acknowledge how that obviously is a part of the reason we are where we are


I'm on record that I voted for Bernie in the primary and Hillary in the general.

I was never a berniebro. I just thought he'd bring some new ideas to the office. I might have been wrong, but we'll never know.

I muted a bunch of people I liked on twitter because they just wouldn't let the Bernie thing go. Odd thing is I don't think any of them were trolling for Russia. More likely they were just sore losers. It made them tools, though.

Now, I don't know what effect the berniebros had on the count. I'd need data on how many progressive Democrats in key states stayed home or wasted their votes on the other Russian agent running for president, AND how many of these did it because they were sore losers on Bernie. Lacking this data, the problem I have with the Bernie divide-and-conquer theory is that there just aren't that many progressive Democrats in the states that swung the election. It seemed to be more about MAINSTREAM Democrats staying home, and Republicans getting out the vote. Don't forget that 77,000 votes swung the whole election.

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"Our democratic institutions... seem to have been upended by frat-boy billionaires from California," remarked Canadian politician Charlie Angus. (BBC, 11/27/18)


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:25 pm 
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I'm on record that I voted for Bernie in the primary and Hillary in the general.

I was never a berniebro. I just thought he'd bring some new ideas to the office. I might have been wrong, but we'll never know.

I muted a bunch of people I liked on twitter because they just wouldn't let the Bernie thing go. Odd thing is I don't think any of them were trolling for Russia. More likely they were just sore losers. It made them tools, though.

Now, I don't know what effect the berniebros had on the count. I'd need data on how many progressive Democrats in key states stayed home or wasted their votes on the other Russian agent running for president, AND how many of these did it because they were sore losers on Bernie. Lacking this data, the problem I have with the Bernie divide-and-conquer theory is that there just aren't that many progressive Democrats in the states that swung the election. It seemed to be more about MAINSTREAM Democrats staying home, and Republicans getting out the vote. Don't forget that 77,000 votes swung the whole election.


People who voted for Stein alone can account for what happened, then add in the people who did NOT vote or voted for johnson or mickey mouse BECAUSE of the NON STOP whining and lying about Hillary and you have the results you have.

Right now on the Randi Rhodes chat I am handcuffed as to what I can say because SHE and most of her moderators were hillary haters and they now cant admit what they did or said was wrong so the truth tellers like me who did not act that way are the ones who are censored. infuriates me, I have been a RR moderator and contributor for a decade.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:04 pm 
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You'll find old posts where I call her Hillary the Hawk, but (1) I vote strategically, and (2) I think she would have been a slightly better than average president and an inspiration to young girls.

Sorry about your problems on RRMB. Sounds like the issues I had when I got run off several university BBSs for opposing the first Iraq war.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:09 pm 
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People call her that, but I suspect, as compared to Trump, she would have reduced the military budget, focused more on "soft power" (diplomacy) (she did as SoS), not eviscerated the State Department diplomatic corps (the folks that keep us out of war), wouldn't have decided to expand torture and use of Gitmo, and would not have first threatened the leader of North Korea with nuclear war, before singing songs of love to him. BTW, I also doubt she would have, early in her presidency, ordered quite as many military actions that got people killed.

Also, I have my doubts she would have felt the need for a massive military parade in Washington DC.

It was obvious to me, as I told Timmeh, who the real militarist was in 2016 ... the chickenhawk, Cadet Bone Spurs. I think people confused his isolationism and exceptionalism with pacifism or an unwillingness to use military force ... I didn't. Especially when he kept saying he loved the generals. Please note, I want generals planning our military strategy in the field, but it should be civilians making the decisions (mostly) as to whether or not we go to war. When Eisenhower became president ... he removed his military insignias. The Constitution shows a distaste for rule by strongmen, and so far for 242 years has saved us from military coups.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:25 pm 
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So much going on, hard to keep up.

"Brand New Congress" is likely a Russian op that PRETENDS to want to oust ALL members but in reality the GOP doesnt work like that other than teabaggers but the Dem party is RIPE for that kind of nonsense.

People wont listen, though. A O Cortez will go around the country attacking dems and people will just say oh well. Stay tuned, much more of it to come. Let me know when people want to wake the fuck up.

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"Corporate Democrat" phrase created at the same place "Angry Mob" was...People keep falling for rightwing talking points. How sad.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:36 pm 
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Why stop at 50 years?

Espionage is the world's third oldest profession, after prostitution and soldiering.


BWAHAH! The first time I read this I thought you said prostitution and soldering. Soldering...the second oldest profession...who knew?

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