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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:43 am 
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**TAD DEVINE 2014 emails are evidence in MANAFORT case. When did Bernie hire Devine?***
Last edited Thu Jul 19, 2018, 06:25 AM - Edit history (2)

Devine's Wikipedia page says it was a year later, in 2015. But the Politico article below, from March 2016, describes a meeting among Bernie, Devine, and others TWO YEARS EARLIER, brainstorming about the campaign.

It was already known that Devine and Manafort worked for the same Ukrainian candidate in 2006 and again in 2009-10. I wasn't aware of any connection as recently as 2014, however. Much less at the same time that Devine was talking to Bernie about his campaign.

The 2014 Devine emails included Kilminik and Rick Gates. The first 2014 Kilminik email mentions a trip to Ukraine. The second one, two months later, appears to be Devine asking Kilminik to send him the talking points.

So Tad Devine is asking Kilminik, a Russian intelligence officer, to send him talking points (topic unknown) in June 2014. And sometime in 2014 or 2015, depending on the source, he goes to work for Bernie.

I doubt that Bernie is complicit in anything. I wonder, however, if Devine is one of those asking for immunity.

The emails listed on page 2 of the list of evidence (for next weeks trial in Virginia) at the first link.

http://thehill.com/policy/national-secu ... fort-trial

Who is Konstantin Kilminik, the recipient of Devine's emails? According to Mueller, he is a person with ties to Russian intelligence.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... -a/562217/

For more than two decades, Konstantin Kilimnik, known familiarly as Kostya and K.K., has worked for Americans, the bulk of his time with Manafort. During that entire period, he has been dogged by suspicions. There were always hints that he might be serving another master, providing a set of surveilling eyes for Russian intelligence. One of his former colleagues, Michael Getto, told me, “From my standpoint, I kept my distance from Kostya, because I knew there was a better-than-even chance that he was connected to people I didn’t want to be.” These insinuations were never backed by more than a smattering of circumstantial evidence. They were never enough to deter State Department officials from grabbing the occasional gossipy drink with him—although one diplomat, casting a backwards glance over the course of his dealings with Kilimnik, told me, “He has excellent tradecraft.”

It was easy enough to dismiss those old hunches as conspiracy theories. The immediate post-Soviet period was a time rife with unfounded accusations. But Robert Mueller has begun to state them as fact. Or rather, in two separate fillings, he has referred to an unnamed colleague of Manafort’s, identified only as “Person A,” with “ties to Russian intelligence.” In a brief Mueller submitted to a U.S. District Court in the course of pressing his case against Manafort, he went one step further. Citing FBI special agents, the special prosecutor described Person A’s ties to Russian intelligence as “active” through the 2016 presidential election.

What everyone close to Paul Manafort already knew, and what The New York Times and other outlets later confirmed, is that Mueller was pseudonymously describing none other than Konstantin Kilimnik. Or to put it even more bluntly than Mueller: Donald Trump’s campaign chairman had a pawn of Russian intelligence as his indispensable alter ego.


https://www.politico.com/magazine/story ... ide-213692

March 2016

They were sitting around two years ago on couches and armchairs in liberal radio host Bill Press’s rowhouse near Eastern Market in Washington, picking at dinner. Sanders, his wife Jane, and all of his top people were there, except for campaign manager Jeff Weaver, who wouldn’t be hired for a year.

Sanders had asked Press to pull in a few others, too, including then-American Bridge president Brad Woodhouse, former Harry Reid chief of staff Susan McCue, Reps. Keith Ellison (D-Minn.) and Barbara Lee (D-Calif.). They spitballed and listened as the Vermont senator laid out what he wanted to do, talked about what a race would really entail, how tough running against Hillary Clinton would be. Jane Sanders gave off the distinct impression she was collecting information she hoped to use to talk him out of it.

Devine spoke toward the end. Reading notes off a yellow legal pad that he’d brought, he went deep in the mechanics—the pointlessness of running as a message candidate, the calendar, the states they’d need to win, the $40-50 million they figured they’d need to raise by Iowa—a number that sounded high at the time.

“Tad was super f--king organized,” said one person who attended. “There had been a ton of thought that had gone into this.”


Will it matter to people, can we ask why Sanders campaign mgr has this history? Can we ASK why Sanders voted AGAINST the Magnistky Act and Sanctions?

Above is copy pasted from DU, I apologize for doing that often but I simply dont have the time to do it any other way.

SANDERS is RUNNING again and promoting "Brand New Congress" candidates, and the reason is to AGAIN fuck with Democrats, and it is because of who or what he really is.

It is OK to admit we were wrong about him, I voted for him in the primary, only to make a statement and I thought he had some great ideas. but he is NOT the person I thought he was AT ALL and I can admit I was wrong!

Guys, we no longer have the luxury of being wrong about this shit.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:53 am 
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Why is it important to admit we were wrong about Sanders?

A. because he is going to run again and do it again

and

B. he is working with a Russian op called "Brand New Congress" to elect people like AOC who is now out crisscrossing the country attacking DEMOCRATS, they are doing this to DIVIDE the party again and if we dont figure it out and stop them, we deserve the outcome

Now the prof reminds me that "Brand New Congress" ALLEGED motto is to primary or go after ALL Existing members, which would IMPLY they are not biased either way. Problem with that is obvious to everybody I hope, in that the GOP other than the teabaggers which is a one off NEVER primary their candidates and NEVER cause division within their ranks making this a meaningless exercise against them.

And I believe the prof even pointed out to me that while they ALLEGE to be against both parties almost ALL of their candidates are actually democrats going after democrats.

This is simple folks. And what honestly scares me is if I cant get YOU people here, my friends, my very tuned in and smart and educated and astute friends to realize all this, then there is NO chance, NADA ZIP anyone else will.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 3:40 pm 
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Chance that some Sandernistas are actually Russian-backed provocateurs: 100%
Chance that they all are: 0%

Justice Democrats, Brand New Congress, and Young Turks have enough background data in common to say with fair certainty that they are linked. How they are linked is not known. There's a guy with a Russian name who shows up, but I don't know where he fits, if he does at all.

Do you have less sketchy evidence for it being a Russian op? This is a serious question. I'm looking for more information than I can find on my own.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:26 pm 
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Give it a fucking rest, Lib.

Russian hacker indictments reopen old wounds between Clinton and Sanders supporters
But they’re starting to unite against a common enemy: Trump and Republicans.


Former Sanders delegates say the leaked DNC emails still exposed real, raw tensions within the party. But in the year and a half since Trump was elected (and given the president’s recent embrace of Russian President Vladimir Putin), they say those original tensions between Sanders and Clinton supporters are healing. That’s in no small part because the two camps have a common purpose to unite them: defeating Trump and Republicans in 2018 and 2020.

“We’re in a crisis and we can’t actually point fingers; we have to try to figure out what the commonality is,” said Winnie Wong, a co-founder of the People for Bernie Sanders organization. “It’s very important that we don’t make enemies of each other; that’s exactly what Trump wants.”

https://www.vox.com/2018/7/19/17581248/ ... ention-dnc

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:29 pm 
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Chance that some Sandernistas are actually Russian-backed provocateurs: 100%
Chance that they all are: 0%

Justice Democrats, Brand New Congress, and Young Turks have enough background data in common to say with fair certainty that they are linked. How they are linked is not known. There's a guy with a Russian name who shows up, but I don't know where he fits, if he does at all.

Do you have less sketchy evidence for it being a Russian op? This is a serious question. I'm looking for more information than I can find on my own.



Anything that consistently and routinely works to divide Democrats, to attack Democrats, works for Russia's advantage whether it is a Russian op or not. I no longer care whether they just do Russia's bidding or get paychecks.

It doesnt matter. If you want physical proof they are Russian then you can do more digging.

Do I have evidence that the votes were flipped in those states, not yet but I know it happened.

I am glad you are linking those 3 groups because they are all 3 along with Our Revolution, working on the same outcome and are likely to all be linked.

At no point did I say ALL sandernistas did or are doing anything. Not all white Americans are overtly racist, but many are. etc. I dont think most sanders supporters are russian operatives, I think they are mislead and wrong, but not operatives.

I just had someone chide me for my tweet about Rump WANTING to send our ambassador to russia to be tortured or killed, I was told that was hyperbole because it cant happen

NOT THE FUCKING GOD DAMN POINT whether it can happen or not

the POINT is HE WANTS to do it. I dont respond to those twits, I simply stop following them and block them because that kind of response helps russian ops.

I would love to work with you on this to prove it, and the first assumption is most who are involved in these things are themselves not operatives, just dupes. Is AOC an operative or just a dupe who is aggressively working to divide democrats, not sure. Cenk is absolutely a russian operative, him and Dore. Again, whether or not they get paychecks or just do their bidding, I dont care. I dont know if Bernie was compromised when he honeymooned there, I think he was and that is why he has NEVER passed a law worth a damn in 30 years until recently and then only one and then launched a campaign that elected Rump, but he could just as easily be so anti capitalism that his agenda works for putin but that does NOT explain why he voted against both Magnitsky and sanctions

WHY DONT PEOPLE TALK ABout that? I want to know...

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:47 pm 
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Tad Devine -- a bit sketchy even before the Russiagate stuff about him came out.
Jimmy Dore -- just a putz, I think
Cenk Uygur -- just a putz occasionally, but Ana Kasparian occasionally brings him back to reality
Jill Stein -- I'm still leaning toward useful idiot, but we'll see

This is still my working theory. By the way, it's pretty much already been proven, some Sanders folks have noted it themselves. The Russians targeted Bernie people during the general election and tried to convince them not to vote for Hillary. They set up fake Bernie sites on Facebook and elsewhere to go after the Bernie folks in the general. I do not believe Bernie himself was aware or "in" on that operation.

Tad Devine? Well, we will see what we will see. Having somebody on the inside might have assisted their ops ...

Something is going on with Cassandra Fairbanks. I'm not sure what, but it's bugged me for a long time.

It's probably the OK time to bring up Ed Schultz, but I won't. Oh wait I just did. :rw)

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:52 pm 
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Cassandra Fairbanks? Working for Sputnik, being a Bernie supporter then immediately switching to Trump? Posing with Nazi flags, hanging with the likes of Jack Posobiec and Mike Cernovich? Posing with hate groups making the white power signs? Using multiple sock accounts for both right and left alt groups on Twitter?

Yah, I'd say something is up with her. ;)

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:53 pm 
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Tad Devine -- a bit sketchy even before the Russiagate stuff about him came out.
Jimmy Dore -- just a putz, I think
Cenk Uygur -- just a putz occasionally, but Ana Kasparian occasionally brings him back to reality
Jill Stein -- I'm still leaning toward useful idiot, but we'll see

This is still my working theory. By the way, it's pretty much already been proven, some Sanders folks have noted it themselves. The Russians targeted Bernie people during the general election and tried to convince them not to vote for Hillary. They set up fake Bernie sites on Facebook and elsewhere to go after the Bernie folks in the general. I do not believe Bernie himself was aware or "in" on that operation.

Tad Devine? Well, we will see what we will see. Having somebody on the inside might have assisted their ops ...

Something is going on with Cassandra Fairbanks. I'm not sure what, but it's bugged me for a long time.

It's probably the OK time to bring up Ed Schultz, but I won't. Oh wait I just did. :rw)


Then why did he BOTH vote against BOTH Magnitsky and sanctions?????

YOu know this, not even republicans did that.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 5:04 pm 
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Candidate Bernie Sanders is a fucking disaster waiting to happen.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 6:03 pm 
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Quote:
The Russians Who Hacked The DNC Have Targeted At Least Three 2018 Campaigns, Microsoft Says
The same Russian intelligence agency charged with hacking Democrats’ emails in 2016 has targeted at least three candidates running for election in 2018, a Microsoft executive said.

Speaking on a panel at the Aspen Security Forum on Thursday, Tom Burt, Microsoft's vice president for customer security and trust, said that his team had discovered a spear-phishing campaign targeting three candidates running for election in 2018. Analysts traced them to a group Microsoft has nicknamed Strontium, which is closely tracked by every major threat intelligence company and is widely accepted to be run by the GRU, Russia’s military intelligence agency.

Burt declined to name the candidates during the event, citing privacy concerns, and didn’t say which party they belonged to, but implied they were candidates of note and running for reelection.

“They were all people who, because of their positions, might have been interesting targets from an espionage standpoint, as well as an election disruption standpoint,” Burt said.


I bet they are some of the same BNC and the other fake progressives are targeting

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ke ... d-at-least


Yeah, these fake progressive groups, Brand New Congress, Our Revolution, Justice Democrats are probably working with KGB on these

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:25 pm 
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Candidate Bernie Sanders is a fucking disaster waiting to happen.


The younger generation usually is, eh, old man.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:30 pm 
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Then why did he BOTH vote against BOTH Magnitsky and sanctions?????

YOu know this, not even republicans did that.


From what i understand so far, it was because Iran was also on the list.

Sounds like he didn't have a problem with sanctions on Russia and North Korea.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:24 pm 
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The younger generation usually is, eh, old man.


Bernie is the younger generation?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:33 pm 
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Then why did he BOTH vote against BOTH Magnitsky and sanctions?????

YOu know this, not even republicans did that.

I read why he voted against Magnitsky and further sanctions against Iran. He believed they would screw up the Iran deal.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:04 am 
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Bernie is the younger generation?


Ironic ain't it?

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:09 am 
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So let's get back to that real world thing I keep hearing about.

Get your scorecards - it's Rand vs. Bernie.

Rand Paul blocks Sanders's Russia resolution, calls it 'crazy hatred' against Trump
http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/s ... azy-hatred

Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) on Thursday blocked a resolution from Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) that backed the intelligence community's assessment of Russian election interference and demanded President Trump speak with special counsel Robert Mueller.

Sanders asked for unanimous consent to try to pass his resolution, saying senators "must act" if they are "serious about preserving American democracy."

"The Congress must make it clear that we accept the assessment of our intelligence community with regard to Russian election interfering in our country and in other democracies," Sanders said during a Senate floor speech. Under Senate rules, any one senator could block his request.

Sanders's resolution would also demand already passed sanctions legislation be fully implemented, move to protect the election system and "not accept" interference in Mueller's investigation, including the firing of Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein.

But Paul objected to the resolution, saying it was a sign of "Trump derangement syndrome" coming to the Senate. Paul has been one of Trump's most vocal defenders in Congress in the wake of the president's sit-down with Russian President Vladimir Putin earlier this week.

"The hatred for the president is so intense that partisans would rather risk war than give diplomacy a chance," he said. (*)

[snip][end]

(*) Rand seems to have joined the bizarre chorus of people who once again seem to present the false dilemma that our only choices with Russia are war or abject ass-kissing and genuflection to murderous dictators...

I don't think we should have good warm relations with Duterte in the Philippines, but that doesn't mean I think we should invade :roll:

There's stuff in the middle - critics of genuflection (which might have resulted from conspiracy) are not asking for war. :roll:

We don't even need to go back to the cold variety ... that geopolitical system is over with.

Anyway, I think Bernie is on the right side of this, and however he wound up there, Rand on the wrong. As a so-called Libertarian, Rand, you should not be calling critics of our authoritarian president "deranged" ... he's the one who is.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:22 am 
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Bernie is the younger generation?


Ironic ain't it?


That makes me the preadolescent generation. I'm so excited.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:24 am 
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But Paul objected to the resolution, saying it was a sign of "Trump derangement syndrome" coming to the Senate. Paul has been one of Trump's most vocal defenders in Congress in the wake of the president's sit-down with Russian President Vladimir Putin earlier this week.

"The hatred for the president is so intense that partisans would rather risk war than give diplomacy a chance," he said. (*)

[snip][end]

(*) Rand seems to have joined the bizarre chorus of people who once again seem to present the false dilemma that our only choices with Russia are war or abject ass-kissing and genuflection to murderous dictators...



I believe we have known for a long time now that Rand Paul is no less malignantly narcissistic than Donald Trump.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:40 am 
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I do not for second believe that every single Bernie Bro was a plant. That is just no possible. I was an early supporter, but as time wore on I say him less a viable alternative and more as comic relief.

I'm pretty sure that some of the Bernie Bots were from Russia.

Jill Stein was an active Russian Agent.

Laying blanket charges does not serve the Democratic Party at all.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:49 am 
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That makes me the preadolescent generation. I'm so excited.


lol....My wife has the Grandkids calling me crabby grandpa when the need arises. She thinks it's cute. It pisses me off. :D

You know what i mean, Ike. Apparently more than a couple goddamn kids are into Bernie's train of thought. You know. The worthless cafe latte drinking crowd. ;)

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:59 am 
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I do not for second believe that every single Bernie Bro was a plant. That is just no possible. I was an early supporter, but as time wore on I say him less a viable alternative and more as comic relief.

I'm pretty sure that some of the Bernie Bots were from Russia.

Jill Stein was an active Russian Agent.

Laying blanket charges does not serve the Democratic Party at all.

See how this shit happens.

At no point did I say anything REMOTELY close to that, yet here we are.

I am not blaming anyone here, but see how easy this is? ALL? Every single? Nope, not once in my life have I said that or anything remotely close to it.

I believe these operations are anti D party whether they are run out of russia or not but I also believe most who participate in them, maybe even AOC, just dont know any better and are not compromised so to speak or under direction of the operatives.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:03 pm 
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I read why he voted against Magnitsky and further sanctions against Iran. He believed they would screw up the Iran deal.

And that was bullshit.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:53 pm 
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See how this shit happens.

At no point did I say anything REMOTELY close to that, yet here we are.

I am not blaming anyone here, but see how easy this is? ALL? Every single? Nope, not once in my life have I said that or anything remotely close to it.

I believe these operations are anti D party whether they are run out of russia or not but I also believe most who participate in them, maybe even AOC, just dont know any better and are not compromised so to speak or under direction of the operatives.


Well... yeah. Consensus evolves toward your analysis, for sure.

The evidence right now is some common addresses and a Russian spook lurking in the background. Better than nothing, but not as good as some newsworthy indictments a la cute gun-toting little red-haired Mariia.

My personal suspicion leans toward co-optation rather than original intent. We know how good Russia is at that. Their people could co-opt a ladies' tea circle in Iowa.

The US stopped taking Russia seriously after the USSR imploded. Oh, there were some sanctions after they started sending troops places (just like the US does as a matter of policy, but that's not mentioned in polite circles). But we stopped suspecting an agent under every bed.

Bad idea.

Knowing history doesn't change anything, but it builds consciousness, and inoculates against the same thing working as well again. I think part of the problem is that you try to trap flies with vinegar. An intelligent discussion of history, minus the epithets directed at people who will likely never see them, goes a long way on this board.

I can't say for DU. I nuked my account after the Russians hacked it. And yes, it IS the Russians, or their conscious agents, who did that. 100% confidence on that one.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 2:06 pm 
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Well... yeah. Consensus evolves toward your analysis, for sure.

The evidence right now is some common addresses and a Russian spook lurking in the background. Better than nothing, but not as good as some newsworthy indictments a la cute gun-toting little red-haired Mariia.

My personal suspicion leans toward co-optation rather than original intent. We know how good Russia is at that. Their people could co-opt a ladies' tea circle in Iowa.

The US stopped taking Russia seriously after the USSR imploded. Oh, there were some sanctions after they started sending troops places (just like the US does as a matter of policy, but that's not mentioned in polite circles). But we stopped suspecting an agent under every bed.

Bad idea.

Knowing history doesn't change anything, but it builds consciousness, and inoculates against the same thing working as well again. I think part of the problem is that you try to trap flies with vinegar. An intelligent discussion of history, minus the epithets directed at people who will likely never see them, goes a long way on this board.

I can't say for DU. I nuked my account after the Russians hacked it. And yes, it IS the Russians, or their conscious agents, who did that. 100% confidence on that one.


Hmmmmm.....Food for thought.

i would wonder if they are still sowing discord at DU.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 2:49 pm 
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lol....My wife has the Grandkids calling me crabby grandpa when the need arises. She thinks it's cute. It pisses me off. :D

You know what i mean, Ike. Apparently more than a couple goddamn kids are into Bernie's train of thought. You know. The worthless cafe latte drinking crowd. ;)


Next to trumper assholes, about the most annoying critters in this country are latte swilling, miffed, entitled, millennial Bernie-ites.

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