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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 7:33 pm 
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very good conversation concerning FB and how it has destroyed rather than 'created'.
how FB is like a lying subjugating viral disease.

i couldnt agree more and am so grateful im a lazy recluse who Never wanted to join the global group.
ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.
i know a bright person who now is fully shaming themself for ever thinking FB was a good idea.

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Who are these...flag-sucking halfwits fleeced fooled by stupid little rich kids They speak for all that is cruel stupid
They are racists hate mongers I piss down the throats of these Nazis Im too old to worry whether they like it Fuck them.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 1:31 pm 
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I put up with it for about a year, but it always made me nervous. It reminded me of Midtown Manhattan. It was very crowded, you ran across just about anyone there if you waited long enough, and it was clearly functioning on auto with minimal input from leaders out of sight in high castles. It also had many mysterious tunnels, various ominous little doors to stuff that wasn't quite safe, and quite a few places you should just plain stay out of.

Every time you had almost learned to navigate all this, they'd change it, and you'd be back where you started. Also like Midtown Manhattan.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:05 pm 
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Meh, these same gripes about social media and Facebook, etc., have been leveled at every mass-communication technology since the Gutenberg press.

It will be leveled at whatever comes after Facebook, too.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:20 pm 
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Meh, these same gripes about social media and Facebook, etc., have been leveled at every mass-communication technology since the Gutenberg press.

It will be leveled at whatever comes after Facebook, too.


Apparently the American people are not mature or responsible enough to have FB and Twitter.

If a tweet or FB post can get you to vote for someone who is clearly a traitor, liar, thief and sexual assaulter, then you are not mature enough to have access to that forum.


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Our board cons support cutting VA while holding parades in honor of a dictator.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 6:24 pm 
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Meh, these same gripes about social media and Facebook, etc., have been leveled at every mass-communication technology since the Gutenberg press.

It will be leveled at whatever comes after Facebook, too.


I'm not making Luddite gripes. I started on the net when the hot setup was 300 baud ASCII done from dumb terminals with ANSI/VT100 emulators that you had to enable on the host by going into a shell and setting a global termcap in your startup file. I'm still here.

I
just
didn't
like
facebook.

It wasn't a good fit. I like twitter a lot better. Most people nowadays seem to hate twitter. Go figure.

I like it when people are unique. There's no reason for anyone to HAVE to like facebook. It's still optional. I'm one of those people who just wasn't happy using it. YMMV.

The stuff about it being a con job to grab every piece of information about you they can get, and sell it to anyone with the money, came later. The Russian psyop and the CA thing came even later than that. I hadn't used my account in years, so I nuked it.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 6:45 pm 
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I'm not making Luddite gripes. I started on the net when the hot setup was 300 baud ASCII done from dumb terminals with ANSI/VT100 emulators that you had to enable on the host by going into a shell and setting a global termcap in your startup file. I'm still here.

I
just
didn't
like
facebook.

It wasn't a good fit. I like twitter a lot better. Most people nowadays seem to hate twitter. Go figure.

I like it when people are unique. There's no reason for anyone to HAVE to like facebook. It's still optional. I'm one of those people who just wasn't happy using it. YMMV.

The stuff about it being a con job to grab every piece of information about you they can get, and sell it to anyone with the money, came later. The Russian psyop and the CA thing came even later than that. I hadn't used my account in years, so I nuked it.


Yeah I'm talking about the guy in the OP, Siva Vaidhyanathan, the guy with that "Anti-Social Media" :roll: book. :problem: I don't think he's an actual luddite, just a critic.

Look, these problems are propaganda problems. I mean, like, literal "propaganda" dating back to the original use of the term: mass dissemenation of a message in order to compel an opinion. E.g., missionization, evangelism, marketing, etc.

https://www.etymonline.com/word/propaganda

Quote:
1718, "committee of cardinals in charge of Catholic missionary work," short for Congregatio de Propaganda Fide "congregation for propagating the faith," a committee of cardinals established 1622 by Gregory XV to supervise foreign missions. The word is properly the ablative fem. gerundive of Latin propagare (see propagation). Hence, "any movement to propagate some practice or ideology" (1790). Modern political sense dates from World War I, not originally pejorative. Meaning "material or information propagated to advance a cause, etc." is from 1929


https://www.etymonline.com/word/propagation

Quote:
mid-15c., from Old French propagacion "offshoot, offspring" (13c.) and directly from Latin propagationem (nominative propagatio) "a propagation, extension, enlargement," noun of action from past participle stem of propagare "set forward, extend, spread, increase; multiply plants by layers, breed," from propago (genitive propaginis) "that which propagates, offspring," from pro "forth" (see pro-) + second element from PIE root *pag- "to fasten," source of pangere "to fasten" (see pact).


People like to pretend that this is the only significant effect or use of Facebook. It's worth knowing about, worth critiquing, worth understanding how it affects not just politics but the world, since 1/3 of the population is on it. I'm just saying these complaints aren't new, even though the platform is new. "Anti-social media" has become this cutesy/clever reference, but it's not a new one. It's not accurate to claim sm "disconnects us". It does connect some of "us" given that "us" is 2 billion active users.

Detractors who never once listened to music through one claimed the same thing about the Walkman, fgs. :problem:

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Last edited by carmenjonze on Thu Aug 02, 2018 6:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 6:46 pm 
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This is the link, btw

https://www.democracynow.org/2018/8/1/a ... ocracy_how

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:06 pm 
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Apparently the American people are not mature or responsible enough to have FB and Twitter.

If a tweet or FB post can get you to vote for someone who is clearly a traitor, liar, thief and sexual assaulter, then you are not mature enough to have access to that forum.


Yeah but who makes that determination?

Quote:
Our board cons support cutting VA while holding parades in honor of a dictator.


Cut the VA, threaten nuclear wars, $70 billion for some stupid wall, $50 million for some stupid authoritarian parade, but we can't afford free college. :problem:

Then, there's this...

White Outgroup Intolerance and Declining Support for American Democracy - Steven V. Miller

Quote:
Using World Values Surveys from 1995 to 2011, we find that intolerance toward cultural, ethnic, or racial ‘others’ reduces the value that white Americans assign to democracy. Perhaps more troubling, these attitudes also increase white individuals’ openness to undemocratic alternatives – white Americans who exhibit social intolerance are more likely to dismiss the value of separation of powers and to support army rule. We close with a discussion of how our analyses inform American politics in the age of Trump and how political scientists can better understand the connection between social intolerance and anti-democratic orientations.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:08 pm 
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I have come to the conclusion that if half of us dont even think it matters to vote even now, and half of the other half are outright fascist killers, then what are we saving?
Our homes? Not our way of life, that is for sure.

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"Corporate Democrat" phrase created at the same place "Angry Mob" was...People keep falling for rightwing talking points. How sad.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:09 pm 
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I have come to the conclusion that if half of us dont even think it matters to vote even now, and half of the other half are outright fascist killers, then what are we saving?
Our homes? Not our way of life, that is for sure.


Well, our lives.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:22 pm 
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Well, our lives.


I almost said something about CA at least being a place for mature, responsible adults and so on. THAT is exactly what putey wants, he wants us to become so disgusted that we break off somehow, then he will almost overnight take over everything.

And by take over I guess what I mean is destroy our power, invest in our oligarchy, etc.

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"Corporate Democrat" phrase created at the same place "Angry Mob" was...People keep falling for rightwing talking points. How sad.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:34 pm 
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Meh, these same gripes about social media and Facebook, etc., have been leveled at every mass-communication technology since the Gutenberg press.

It will be leveled at whatever comes after Facebook, too.


{chuckle}...

Ya'd think mass communication would solve some humanities problems....But it seems quite the opposite eh.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:47 pm 
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Apparently the American people are not mature or responsible enough to have FB and Twitter.


The American people are certainly not mature or responsible enough to have a Second Amendment...why would we think they're mature or responsible enough to have unregulated social media?

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Last edited by Ike Bana on Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:48 pm 
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They're certainly not mature or responsible to have a Second Amendment...why would we think they're mature or responsible enough to have unregulated social media?

I just left my jam session where I reminded a friend that USA really WAS unique, our freedom of the press unparalleled around the world.

was

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:16 pm 
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I just left my jam session where I reminded a friend that USA really WAS unique, our freedom of the press unparalleled around the world.

was


Why are Americans, even so many progressives, so resistant to identifying the parallels between the rise of fascism in Italy in the 1920's, and in Germany in the 1930's, and here in 2017-18? Is it too fucking terrifying to admit it? What was the first thing Mussolini did in Italy and Hitler did in Germany? They both went after the free press. What's the first thing Trump did? "Fake news"...it started the day after the inauguration, over the attendance. And it's just the first of a dozen parallels between Mussolini and Trump.

Its fucking fascism. Spelled out for everybody by Madeleine Albright.

Image

Trump is following the Mussolini playbook, step by step. But we need to see Mueller's report to know if Trump is unfit. :roll:

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 12:29 pm 
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Why are Americans, even so many progressives, so resistant to identifying the parallels between the rise of fascism in Italy in the 1920's, and in Germany in the 1930's, and here in 2017-18? Is it too fucking terrifying to admit it? What was the first thing Mussolini did in Italy and Hitler did in Germany? They both went after the free press. What's the first thing Trump did? "Fake news"...it started the day after the inauguration, over the attendance. And it's just the first of a dozen parallels between Mussolini and Trump.

Its fucking fascism. Spelled out for everybody by Madeleine Albright.

Image

Trump is following the Mussolini playbook, step by step. But we need to see Mueller's report to know if Trump is unfit. :roll:


Great question Ike and here is my answer to that: "McDonald's is still open, the price of burgers is still reasonable, "Celebrities who can dance one legged with their tongues sticking out while dressed in high heels" show is still on the boob tube every week, etc. So all is fine and well.

And by the time it all disappears it will of course be what...yeah

too late

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 12:23 am 
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And by the time it all disappears it will of course be what...yeah

too late


German Lutheran pastor Martin Niemöller wrote, "First they came for the socialists." We are accurate in saying, "First they came for the journalists. Then they came for the children of immigrants." So...

NYT - Trump Will Have Blood On His Hands.

I sincerely believe Bret Stephens is right and at some point there will be blood on a newsroom floor somewhere. Lots of it. And since the source for this information will come from the same source as almost all of our information comes from, we will be told that news is "Fake news, enemy of the people, meant to destroy America." And when we finally get the report from Robert Mueller, it also will come from the same source, "Fake news, enemy of the people, meant to destroy America."

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 5:41 am 
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Why are Americans, even so many progressives, so resistant to identifying the parallels between the rise of fascism in Italy in the 1920's, and in Germany in the 1930's, and here in 2017-18? Is it too fucking terrifying to admit it? What was the first thing Mussolini did in Italy and Hitler did in Germany? They both went after the free press. What's the first thing Trump did? "Fake news"...it started the day after the inauguration, over the attendance. And it's just the first of a dozen parallels between Mussolini and Trump.

Its fucking fascism. Spelled out for everybody by Madeleine Albright.

Image

Trump is following the Mussolini playbook, step by step. But we need to see Mueller's report to know if Trump is unfit. :roll:



Most Americans still believe "It can't happen here." This is very foolish. It's already happening.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:55 pm 
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{chuckle}...

Ya'd think mass communication would solve some humanities problems....But it seems quite the opposite eh.


Yea well you know what's funny is that Siva Vaidhyanathan is really great and often hilarious on FB. Thing is, he's just promoting his book like any other academic with a new book coming out.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:57 pm 
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Yea well you know what's funny is that Siva Vaidhyanathan is really great and often hilarious on FB. Thing is, he's just promoting his book like any other academic with a new book coming out.


Facebook Is a Normal Sleazy Company Now - Slate

Now?

Quote:
Thanks to some deep reporting by a team of New York Times reporters, we now know that CEO Mark Zuckerberg spent the year after the 2016 presidential election largely checked out and clueless about the monster he had created. And we know that COO Sheryl Sandberg, in the face of growing scrutiny of the company, was so desperate to repair the leak in the price of Facebook stock that she went into cahoots with a number of suspect figures across American politics—including a right-wing opposition research shop dabbling in the PR dark arts as well as Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, who ran interference for the company within his party.

...

The Times report makes clear that Zuckerberg and Sandberg played no-cop-bad-cop while troubles rolled across their screens and into their board meetings.

Sandberg, a veteran of the Clinton administration and a thoroughly connected member of America’s corporate and cultural elite, called in all the favors she could and appealed to some of the baser instincts of potential allies. Crucially, Sandberg brought on Republican lobbyists like Joel Kaplan, last seen lending public support to his old friend, Justice Brett Kavanaugh, during his fraught confirmation hearings.

Kaplan reportedly led the charge internally to water down Facebook reports about the breadth of Russian attacks on American democracy for fear of angering President Donald Trump and conservative power brokers. Sandberg consistently backed Kaplan, denying the American public a full account of a hostile foreign power’s attempts to influence an election and, just as important, the fundamental vulnerability of Facebook to being hijacked by almost any small but determined force.

Sandberg also reportedly unleashed a propaganda campaign that leveraged the right-wing meme machine—the same machine that so deeply pollutes Facebook with misinformation and disinformation about life in America. Perhaps the most disturbing allegation in the Times report is that Facebook’s right-wing agents tried to link some high-profile Facebook critics to financier George Soros. Given that Soros is the go-to boogeyman in many recent anti-Semitic campaigns, we should be shocked that Facebook stooped so low. All the while boasting of transparency and concern for the health of our communities, Facebook clandestinely played with the very villains who regularly warp and pollute our culture and politics.

...

What explains the cravenness of Facebook’s leadership now? They must realize, as social media scholars have been warning for many years, that Facebook is vulnerable by design. All of the scandals and crises the company has facilitated in recent years are examples of Facebook working as it was supposed to.

The three features that make Facebook Facebook also make it the ideal platform for working on behalf of dangerous and violent forces. The first is scale. Facebook gathers posts from more than 2.2 billion people in more than 100 languages. The second is algorithmic amplification. Facebook promotes extreme content like hate speech and conspiracy theories over thoughtful, balanced, deliberate work. And the third is the best advertising system ever created. Facebook can put an ad in front of exactly the type of person who might respond to a sales pitch or a call to political action and ignore those who might not.

Zuckerberg and Sandberg can’t fix Facebook because to fix Facebook is to scrap one or more of these essential attributes. The problem with Facebook is Facebook.

We are stuck in the world Facebook made. It was a terrible idea in the first place, but as long as advertisers, authoritarians, and Chuck Schumer protect it, Facebook will face little significant pressure in most of the world. All Zuckerberg and Sandberg need to do is ride out this moment, boast about making a good effort to clean the thing up, and keep those campaign contributions flowing. Facebook will be just fine. Democracy will not.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:14 pm 
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German Lutheran pastor Martin Niemöller wrote, "First they came for the socialists." We are accurate in saying, "First they came for the journalists. Then they came for the children of immigrants." So...

NYT - Trump Will Have Blood On His Hands.

I sincerely believe Bret Stephens is right and at some point there will be blood on a newsroom floor somewhere. Lots of it. And since the source for this information will come from the same source as almost all of our information comes from, we will be told that news is "Fake news, enemy of the people, meant to destroy America." And when we finally get the report from Robert Mueller, it also will come from the same source, "Fake news, enemy of the people, meant to destroy America."


Putin has ordered rump and pence to NOT go to veterans events so they can start to train us not to defend our country and respect our country.

Rump and putin and McConnell desperately want journalists killed and so it is just a matter of time

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:15 pm 
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The Times article in question: Delay, Deny and Deflect: How Facebook’s Leaders Fought Through Crisis

Quote:
But as Facebook grew, so did the hate speech, bullying and other toxic content on the platform. When researchers and activists in Myanmar, India, Germany and elsewhere warned that Facebook had become an instrument of government propaganda and ethnic cleansing, the company largely ignored them. Facebook had positioned itself as a platform, not a publisher. Taking responsibility for what users posted, or acting to censor it, was expensive and complicated. Many Facebook executives worried that any such efforts would backfire.

Then Donald J. Trump ran for president. He described Muslim immigrants and refugees as a danger to America, and in December 2015 posted a statement on Facebook calling for a “total and complete shutdown” on Muslims entering the United States. Mr. Trump’s call to arms — widely condemned by Democrats and some prominent Republicans — was shared more than 15,000 times on Facebook, an illustration of the site’s power to spread racist sentiment.

Mr. Zuckerberg, who had helped found a nonprofit dedicated to immigration reform, was appalled, said employees who spoke to him or were familiar with the conversation. He asked Ms. Sandberg and other executives if Mr. Trump had violated Facebook’s terms of service.

The question was unusual. Mr. Zuckerberg typically focused on broader technology issues; politics was Ms. Sandberg’s domain. In 2010, Ms. Sandberg, a Democrat, had recruited a friend and fellow Clinton alum, Marne Levine, as Facebook’s chief Washington representative. A year later, after Republicans seized control of the House, Ms. Sandberg installed another friend, a well-connected Republican: Joel Kaplan, who had attended Harvard with Ms. Sandberg and later served in the George W. Bush administration.

Some at Facebook viewed Mr. Trump’s 2015 attack on Muslims as an opportunity to finally take a stand against the hate speech coursing through its platform. But Ms. Sandberg, who was edging back to work after the death of her husband several months earlier, delegated the matter to Mr. Schrage and Monika Bickert, a former prosecutor whom Ms. Sandberg had recruited as the company’s head of global policy management. Ms. Sandberg also turned to the Washington office — particularly to Mr. Kaplan, said people who participated in or were briefed on the discussions.

In video conference calls between the Silicon Valley headquarters and Washington, the three officials construed their task narrowly. They parsed the company’s terms of service to see if the post, or Mr. Trump’s account, violated Facebook’s rules.

Mr. Kaplan argued that Mr. Trump was an important public figure and that shutting down his account or removing the statement could be seen as obstructing free speech, said three employees who knew of the discussions. He said it could also stoke a conservative backlash.

“Don’t poke the bear,” Mr. Kaplan warned.


:roll:

Much more in link

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:20 pm 
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Quote:
“It’s time for Facebook to let all of us see the ads bought by Russians *and paid for in Rubles* during the last election,” Ms. Klobuchar wrote on her own Facebook page.

Facebook girded for battle. Days after the bill was unveiled, Facebook hired Mr. Warner’s former chief of staff, Luke Albee, to lobby on it. Mr. Kaplan’s team took a larger role in managing the company’s Washington response, routinely reviewing Facebook news releases for words or phrases that might rile conservatives.

Ms. Sandberg also reached out to Ms. Klobuchar. She had been friendly with the senator, who is featured on the website for Lean In, Ms. Sandberg’s empowerment initiative. Ms. Sandberg had contributed a blurb to Ms. Klobuchar’s 2015 memoir, and the senator’s chief of staff had previously worked at Ms. Sandberg’s charitable foundation.

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But in a tense conversation shortly after the ad legislation was introduced, Ms. Sandberg complained about Ms. Klobuchar’s attacks on the company, said a person who was briefed on the call. Ms. Klobuchar did not back down on her legislation. But she dialed down her criticism in at least one venue important to the company: After blasting Facebook repeatedly that fall on her own Facebook page, Ms. Klobuchar hardly mentioned the company in posts between November and February.

A spokesman for Ms. Klobuchar said in a statement that Facebook’s lobbying had not lessened her commitment to holding the company accountable. “Facebook was pushing to exclude issue ads from the Honest Ads Act, and Senator Klobuchar strenuously disagreed and refused to change the bill,” he said.

In October 2017, Facebook also expanded its work with a Washington-based consultant, Definers Public Affairs, that had originally been hired to monitor press coverage of the company. Founded by veterans of Republican presidential politics, Definers specialized in applying political campaign tactics to corporate public relations — an approach long employed in Washington by big telecommunications firms and activist hedge fund managers, but less common in tech.

Definers had established a Silicon Valley outpost earlier that year, led by Tim Miller, a former spokesman for Jeb Bush who preached the virtues of campaign-style opposition research. For tech firms, he argued in one interview, a goal should be to “have positive content pushed out about your company and negative content that’s being pushed out about your competitor.”

...

In July, organizers with a coalition called Freedom from Facebook crashed a hearing of the House Judiciary Committee, where a company executive was testifying about its policies. As the executive spoke, the organizers held aloft signs depicting Ms. Sandberg and Mr. Zuckerberg, who are both Jewish, as two heads of an octopus stretching around the globe.

Eddie Vale, a Democratic public relations strategist who led the protest, later said the image was meant to evoke old cartoons of Standard Oil, the Gilded Age monopoly. But a Facebook official quickly called the Anti-Defamation League, a leading Jewish civil rights organization, to flag the sign. Facebook and other tech companies had partnered with the civil rights group since late 2017 on an initiative to combat anti-Semitism and hate speech online.

That afternoon, the A.D.L. issued a warning from its Twitter account.

“Depicting Jews as an octopus encircling the globe is a classic anti-Semitic trope,” the organization wrote. “Protest Facebook — or anyone — all you want, but pick a different image.” The criticism was soon echoed in conservative outlets including The Washington Free Beacon, which has sought to tie Freedom from Facebook to what the publication calls “extreme anti-Israel groups.”

An A.D.L. spokeswoman, Betsaida Alcantara, said the group routinely fielded reports of anti-Semitic slurs from journalists, synagogues and others. “Our experts evaluate each one based on our years of experience, and we respond appropriately,” Ms. Alcantara said. (The group has at times sharply criticized Facebook, including when Mr. Zuckerberg suggested that his company should not censor Holocaust deniers.)

Facebook also used Definers to take on bigger opponents, such as Mr. Soros, a longtime boogeyman to mainstream conservatives and the target of intense anti-Semitic smears on the far right. A research document circulated by Definers to reporters this summer, just a month after the House hearing, cast Mr. Soros as the unacknowledged force behind what appeared to be a broad anti-Facebook movement.

He was a natural target. In a speech at the World Economic Forum in January, he had attacked Facebook and Google, describing them as a monopolist “menace” with “neither the will nor the inclination to protect society against the consequences of their actions.”

Definers pressed reporters to explore the financial connections between Mr. Soros’s family or philanthropies and groups that were members of Freedom from Facebook, such as Color of Change, an online racial justice organization, as well as a progressive group founded by Mr. Soros’s son. (An official at Mr. Soros’s Open Society Foundations said the philanthropy had supported both member groups, but not Freedom from Facebook, and had made no grants to support campaigns against Facebook.)

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 5:48 pm 
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So, aside from the fact that they hired a political oppo-research film to take on critics of their business practices ... let us also note:

1) How neutral is Mark politically (as he often claims), if Definers, the firm they used, is a conservative/Republican opposition research firm?
and
b) I find it odd Mark, often the target of anti-Semitic CTs himself, was fine with Definers using Soros as their villain du jour. Of course, I've often wondered why Mark takes so little action about Holocaust deniers, on Facebook ... that lends itself to a theory ...

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 7:07 pm 
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Facebook points and cries

New York Times Update - FB Newsroom

Quote:
Sex Trafficking Legislation: Sheryl championed this legislation because she believed it was the right thing to do, and that tech companies need to be more open to content regulation where it can prevent real world harm. In fact, the company faced considerable criticism as a result.


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