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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:50 pm 
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Really? The Scandinavian Countries are polled as some of the happiest countries in the world. These are the countries you brand as "socialist":

Of course, none of them are ACTUALLY socialist. All allow private ownership of land, are capitalist and allow private business. They simply have a higher level of social insurance.


Nice attempt at deflection, we were talking about the cost of "free" college. I was asked several times to provide links, I have. Yet so far no comments about the facts within those links. I guess it was just once again game playing.

The idea of "free" college is nice, until you get under the hood and try to figure out how to pay for it, who would be eligible and how allowing one American the right to "free" college while denying another would be fair under our laws.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 5:02 pm 
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Nice attempt at deflection, we were talking about the cost of "free" college. I was asked several times to provide links, I have. Yet so far no comments about the facts within those links. I guess it was just once again game playing.

The idea of "free" college is nice, until you get under the hood and try to figure out how to pay for it, who would be eligible and how allowing one American the right to "free" college while denying another would be fair under our laws.


How the cost of college is paid for is just part of what has become so fucked up in this country. The only thing higher education is about here in the good ol' US of Ass, is how much money the lenders can squeeze out of young Americans and their families. What's good for business, sucks for the average college student. The realities of where life is better and where it is not, as GoU was referring to with his reference to Scandinavia, was brilliantly out by Krugman in Thursday's New York Times:

NYT - Krugman: Something Not Rotten In Denmark.

Or, as Ike would say...conservatives smell like ass.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 5:10 pm 
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Nice attempt at deflection, we were talking about the cost of "free" college. I was asked several times to provide links, I have. Yet so far no comments about the facts within those links. I guess it was just once again game playing.

The idea of "free" college is nice, until you get under the hood and try to figure out how to pay for it, who would be eligible and how allowing one American the right to "free" college while denying another would be fair under our laws.


Yeah, yeah, glen. It’s much better to give bribes from taxes to the rich.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 5:56 pm 
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How the cost of college is paid for is just part of what has become so fucked up in this country. The only thing higher education is about here in the good ol' US of Ass, is how much money the lenders can squeeze out of young Americans and their families. What's good for business, sucks for the average college student. The realities of where life is better and where it is not, as GoU was referring to with his reference to Scandinavia, was brilliantly out by Krugman in Thursday's New York Times:

NYT - Krugman: Something Not Rotten In Denmark.

Or, as Ike would say...conservatives smell like ass.



That is a god article and it demonstrates how the left can support almost every tenant of socialism but as long as they say they are not for Gov't ownership of the means of production they aren't really socialist. On the other hand of course I can oppose 8 of 10 things Trump says or does but because I support 2 I am a traitor to my country and a full fledged Trumper.....very odd.

However back to your link and post.

Denmark has the highest tax rate in the world. If you earn the US equivalent of $43,000 your tax rate is 45%. Earn 67000 you pay 50%.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countr ... s-of-taxes

Corporate tax rate in Denmark stands at 22%

Few people in Denmark own cars thanks to the 180% tax rate on cars. That figure was from 2011 so it might have changed.

Sales tax in Denmark is 25% They also spend only about 1.4% of GDP on defense.

As of 2016 Denmark's GDP stood at about 307 billion US. Showing that comparing Denmark to the USA because both happen to be countries is as relevant as comparing NY City to Elizabeth W Va because both happen to be classified as cities.

So let's review on how great Denmark is compared to the USA

Denmark tax rate 45% to over 50% on just 67k US
Denmark car tax 180%, meaning the $17,094 out the door KIA I just bought would be $30,769
Denmark Sales tax 25%
Denmark 1.4% of GDP on defense, about 4 billion American
Denmark GDP 307 Billion less than 100 billion more than the state of South Carolina

Now tell me again how much better they do it in Denmark. I almost forgot to include a gallon of gas in Denmark runs about $7.50 a gallon US

Yep if we only did things here in the UassA as you call it [ but you don't hate America] things would be so much better. :roll:

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 6:02 pm 
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Our tax rates were higher in the fifties and sixties. Again, the people of those nations are far happier than we are. For one thing, no one goes bankrupt over hospital bills. You can't make an argument that these countries are hell-holes.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 6:15 pm 
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Our tax rates were higher in the fifties and sixties. Again, the people of those nations are far happier than we are. For one thing, no one goes bankrupt over hospital bills. You can't make an argument that these countries are hell-holes.


Another liberal telling a lie and the truth at the same time. The effective rate was just about what it is today.

But, if we all gave up our cars, abolished our military, paid 50% in taxes had a 25% sales tax basically had the country you evidently envision. We could have the same social programs they do in Denmark right up to the time our entire economy died or we were invaded by a hostile nation.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 6:15 pm 
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Now tell me again how much better they do it in Denmark. I almost forgot to include a gallon of gas in Denmark runs about $7.50 a gallon US.


The cost of gas. Of course a truck driver would base his conclusions of a comparison between two economic systems on the cost of gasoline.

Try to rejoin the real world glen. Only an asshat Confederate trumper like you, if given the choice between accumulating information from a brilliant economist like Paul Krugman, and an asshat confederate trumper like you...would choose you.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 6:19 pm 
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Another liberal telling a lie and the truth at the same time. The effective rate was just about what it is today.

But, if we all gave up our cars, abolished our military, paid 50% in taxes had a 25% sales tax basically had the country you evidently envision. We could have the same social programs they do in Denmark right up to the time our entire economy died or we were invaded by a hostile nation.

Isn't it funny how their economies are just fine, and their citizens have a higher average income?

You got one thing right - the military industrial complex is bleeding us dry.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:51 pm 
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[color=#FFBFFF][/color]


That is a god article and it demonstrates how the left can support almost every tenant of socialism but as long as they say they are not for Gov't ownership of the means of production they aren't really socialist. On the other hand of course I can oppose 8 of 10 things Trump says or does but because I support 2 I am a traitor to my country and a full fledged Trumper.....very odd.

However back to your link and post.

Denmark has the highest tax rate in the world. If you earn the US equivalent of $43,000 your tax rate is 45%. Earn 67000 you pay 50%.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countr ... s-of-taxes

Corporate tax rate in Denmark stands at 22%

Few people in Denmark own cars thanks to the 180% tax rate on cars. That figure was from 2011 so it might have changed.

Sales tax in Denmark is 25% They also spend only about 1.4% of GDP on defense.

As of 2016 Denmark's GDP stood at about 307 billion US. Showing that comparing Denmark to the USA because both happen to be countries is as relevant as comparing NY City to Elizabeth W Va because both happen to be classified as cities.

So let's review on how great Denmark is compared to the USA

Denmark tax rate 45% to over 50% on just 67k US
Denmark car tax 180%, meaning the $17,094 out the door KIA I just bought would be $30,769
Denmark Sales tax 25%
Denmark 1.4% of GDP on defense, about 4 billion American
Denmark GDP 307 Billion less than 100 billion more than the state of South Carolina

Now tell me again how much better they do it in Denmark. I almost forgot to include a gallon of gas in Denmark runs about $7.50 a gallon US

Yep if we only did things here in the UassA as you call it [ but you don't hate America] things would be so much better. :roll:

If you're going to make a comparison then you need to provide the data for the U.S.. Using information from U.S. News and World Report, here are the profiles of Denmark and the U.S. from U.S. News & World Report.

Quote:
Denmark: Through progressive taxation, Denmark employs a universal health care system in which citizens receive mostly free medical care. Higher education is also free. Unsurprisingly, Denmark’s highly progressive government and societal structure creates incredible social mobility.

Denmark has several leading industries including food processing, tourism and the production of iron, steel and machinery. Its main exports are processed foods, agricultural and industrial machinery, pharmaceuticals and furniture.

Denmark’s economy is based on the flexicurity model, which combines a flexible labor market with a policy for the unemployed. This flexicurity model allows for businesses to establish inexpensively and quickly, as there is scarce government oversight regarding matters such as terminations or work hours. The Danish corporate tax rate is 24.5 percent, but its income tax rate is among the highest in the world.
usnews.com


Quote:
U.S.: The U.S. is culturally and racially diverse, and was shaped by large waves of immigration from Europe and beyond. American literature, art and music reflect the rich heritage of the county’s people. The U.S. is the birthplace of jazz, and Louis Armstrong, an African American, is one of the country’s most recognized and admired musicians. Prize-winning Jewish writers Saul Bellow and Philip Roth are some of the best known literary figures in the U.S. The media industry in the U.S. has a global audience, with its television shows, music videos and films distributed worldwide.

The country is home to some of the top universities in the world, including Harvard University and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.

Despite being the foremost global power, the U.S. still faces domestic challenges, including racial tensions, income inequality and an increasingly polarized electorate. All of these fissures have been on display during Trump's presidency, as even his own party has been divided on some of the nation's most important legislation. While national security is a concern, so too, is the debt incurred from wars and expenditures on an aging population. The U.S. leads the developed world in deaths due to firearms.
usnewsU.S.

There's more to comparing countries than just economic data. There's quality of life which Denmark ranks #2 while the U.S. ranks #17. Pay particular attention to the last line in the U.S. profile.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 9:12 pm 
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Oh, and glen, there are other categories in which countries can be compared with, such as citizenship. Using U.S. News & World Report as a source, since you originally used them, citizenship is defined as:

Quote:
A country’s economic prowess and military may command respect on the international stage. But being a good global citizen – leading the world by example – is often the ingredient that turns a respected country into a lauded one. Countries that care about human rights, gender equality and religious freedom are the nations held up by academics, advocates and others as examples worth imitating. These global citizens inspire pride in their people, civil society leaders and lawmakers.

The 2018 Best Countries rankings, formed in partnership with global marketing communications company Y&R's brand strategy firm, BAV Group, and the Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania, are based on a survey that asked more than 21,000 people from four regions to associate 80 countries with specific attributes. The Citizenship subranking is based on an equally weighted average of scores from eight country attributes that relate to a country's citizenship: cares about human rights, cares about the environment, gender equality, progressive, religious freedom, respects property rights, trustworthy and well-distributed political power. The Citizenship subranking had a 17 percent weight in the overall Best Countries ranking.


Denmark was ranked #3 and the U.S. ranked at #16.

Those who complain most about other countries, especially European countries, tend to never have lived, worked, or visited those countries. They are "know-nothings" when it comes to comparing culture, way of life, quality of life, etc. because they only look at data and not reality. glen, you are a "know-nothing."

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 9:47 pm 
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Not that any of you will read the links,


People read your links, stop complaining about a made-up problem, pls.

Quote:
admit you are wrong or even discuss the issue beyond the usual snarking and personal attacks here are your links.


What a tantrum.

How can it be that after all these years, you still don't get why people ask you for links when you toss out facts and refuse outright to back them up until you're mopped into a corner?

Asking you to back up the things you say isn't about being right or wrong.

It's merely asking you to back up your claims. Learn the difference. You might notice that most people here making a claim typically do include links to back it up. Self included.

This is something that comes of an actual education. They're things you learn in college, though ideally they are learned in high school, middle school and starting in elementary school. But yeah, you really learn how to hone it in college and beyond. Maybe this is why you're so hostile to higher education?

How come it typically takes you 3-5 pages, several people asking you, and often weeks at a time to simply back up your claims? I do think it's because you as a conservative white male have been so pumped up with entitlement & supremacy issues and you've been taught that every last bit of repeated pablum coming out of your mouth must be taken as fact, and truth. And anybody, especially a nonwhite, who challenges that is being unfair to your natural, god-granted rights.

Am I wrong about that?

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 9:58 pm 
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The idea of "free" college is nice, until you get under the hood and try to figure out how to pay for it, who would be eligible and how allowing one American the right to "free" college while denying another would be fair under our laws.


You're getting close to getting the point of the OP, man. That's good. :)

Tax cuts for the 1% of richest people.

$2 billion for an airplane.

$70 billion for a wall.

$92 million for some saber-rattling parade.

Half a billion to Southwest Key Programs, one nonprofit organization, alone, to lock up immigrant children. Trump’s Immigrant Child Detentions Mean $458 Million for Nonprofit - Bloomberg

And while we're on the topic of the cost of education and higher ed, how much do you suppose it cost the nation to segregate my parents by race in their elementary and secondary schools, and shut them and their relatives and peers out of even being able to send in an application to certain public colleges, or ones with racial quotas?

You're aware that Black people paid taxes for these conditions to stay in place, right?

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:07 pm 
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notice how trump went after lebron who was setting up better education.

i dunno we don't have free college here but imo go after what is most important first ~ healthcare.


Conservative whites detest the idea of an educated populace and especially minorities with better educations than them and their children.

The very idea of more people with more access to higher education scares the crap out of them, and makes them really resentful.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 8:09 pm 
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Fox News gets a reality check.

www.youtube.com Video from : www.youtube.com


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:43 pm 
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Just to clarify some of glen's lying-ass bullsjit...

Many people all over Europe dont own cars. It's not because of sales tax, or any other tax. Its because Eiropeans have excellent public transportation systems, and owning cars is a pain in the ass. The percent of families that own cars in EU cities has been shrinking for decades. When they want to take a road trip, they rent a car. Just like smart Americans who want to go boating are more and more frequently renting a power boat rather than owning their own. As my rother-in-law from the Keystone Islands section of North Miami said to me one time, "I figured it out. With the loan, all the expenses, and how often we actually use the boat, every time I fire up the engines, this fucking boat costs me over 1500 bucks." Owniong a car in an EU metro location is fucking stupid.

Taxes? The taxes pay for their health care. Out taxes go into he pockets of military/industrial complex corporate executives. Our health insurance premiums go into the pockets of insurance company executives. It's why our heal insurance costs us twice per capita of what the Danes pay for their healthcare.

The Danes are happy people. The Danes, and most other Europeans think Americans are fucking nuts

They're 100% right, you stupid fuck.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:48 pm 
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We have $$$ for this?

Citizenship service conspired with ICE to ‘trap’ immigrants at visa interviews, ACLU says - WP

Quote:
The interviews were quick and painless. Calderon’s included “football banter,” she said.

But then ICE showed up — and it was quickly clear to Calderon that she would not be returning home to her daughter.

The 30-year-old mother of two wound up handcuffed and then detained by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement for nearly a month, capturing the attention of the ACLU and leading to a class-action lawsuit over what attorneys have described as a “cruel bait and switch” arrest operation. According to emails between federal officials unsealed in federal court documents this week, U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services had been coordinating with ICE to alert the agency when certain immigrants eligible for deportation showed up at the CIS office for routine interviews.

The ACLU of Massachusetts is accusing the agencies of conspiring to “trap” unsuspecting immigrants on a path toward legal permanent residency by inviting them to these interviews only for ICE to arrest them there. This happened to at least 17 people in 2018 including Calderon, although only 13 qualify as members of the class, according to the lawsuit. The ACLU argues this violates their rights to due process and the Immigration Nationality Act, among other things, for detaining the immigrants before they’ve had a chance to complete the process for seeking legal status.


Conservatives are desperate to sweep these policies under the rug while crying communismsocialism at the absract idea of "free college".

"Free college" isn't even a thing, except maybe at City College of San Francisco. Totalitarian immigration policies against nonwhites from South and Central America, though.... .... ...

Yeah, that is a thing. Conservatives demand every one of us pay for it, too.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:44 am 
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Just to clarify some of glen's lying-ass bullsjit...

Many people all over Europe dont own cars. It's not because of sales tax, or any other tax. Its because Eiropeans have excellent public transportation systems, and owning cars is a pain in the ass. The percent of families that own cars in EU cities has been shrinking for decades. When they want to take a road trip, they rent a car. Just like smart Americans who want to go boating are more and more frequently renting a power boat rather than owning their own. As my rother-in-law from the Keystone Islands section of North Miami said to me one time, "I figured it out. With the loan, all the expenses, and how often we actually use the boat, every time I fire up the engines, this fucking boat costs me over 1500 bucks." Owniong a car in an EU metro location is fucking stupid.

Taxes? The taxes pay for their health care. Out taxes go into he pockets of military/industrial complex corporate executives. Our health insurance premiums go into the pockets of insurance company executives. It's why our heal insurance costs us twice per capita of what the Danes pay for their healthcare.

The Danes are happy people. The Danes, and most other Europeans think Americans are fucking nuts

They're 100% right, you stupid fuck.

In much of Europe, the public transportation system is excellent. Many people who live in the cities or immediate around the cities don't own cars because of that. Just like in New York City, many don't own a car because they don't need one with the subway system, buses, and taxis. However, the further you move away from the city the more you'll see people owning cars mainly because they need them to get around for shopping. BTW, the roads in Europe are better maintained and designed than the roads in the U.S..

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:26 pm 
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eclipse spending like at the federal level

Betsy DeVos' lunatic scheme will take student tax money

Quote:
...........But now, according to the New York Times, DeVos and her merry band of public school saboteurs believe they have discovered a way to tap a $1 billion grant program established to benefit students in the nation's most underfunded school districts to pay for the guns Congress forbade them to buy with school safety funds.

Money allocated under the Every Student Succeeds Act (ESSA) is supposed to be used to improve learning conditions and promote digital literacy. But because its congressional sponsors failed to include language specifically barring its use for firearm purchases, the Department of Education is considering allowing schools to use the money to purchase firearms for school staffers.

Until now, the Times reports, the Department of Education has encouraged grant recipients to spend ESSA money on mental health counseling, dropout prevention initiatives, and programs to facilitate the re-entry of students returning to school from the juvenile justice system. But departmental researchers have proposed that gun purchases could fall under ESSA's charter to improve learning conditions in schools that serve low-income students.

If it also bolsters revenues for firearm manufacturers and gun shop dealers, well, that's just icing on the cake..............

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 1:28 pm 
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First thing that strikes me in Europe is how the trains are actually good for getting places, as opposed to here where they're really pretty dismal. Not just out to the burbs like in New York, but all over. They go everywhere, and everyone rides them. Everyone bitches about them, the way people do, and strikes are always a problem, but it still makes our semi-functioning rail passenger system look pretty poor. Which it is.

Europe has infrastructure issues. Italy, in particular, has drastically cut its spending on this. Some people think that's why the biggest bridge in Genoa collapsed a week or so back, killing something like 40 people. The roads in general tend to be well maintained, though some of the ones in the French countryside get pretty narrow. The big difference I see is the use of roundabouts instead of 4-way stops. They really do move traffic through faster, since vehicles keep moving. They also take up more room, but the centers make great little green spaces. Americans don't know how to drive in them, though.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 1:35 pm 
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eclipse spending like at the federal level

Betsy DeVos' lunatic scheme will take student tax money


The greatest country in the world.

My ass.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 1:53 pm 
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The greatest country in the world.

My ass.


Yes. We have $$$ for putting guns in the schools.

We do not have $$$ for cover tuition/fees.

So stop saying that!

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:41 pm 
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Glen proposes 30 or 40 years of debt and devos trumps that with students should be swindled into that debt without recourse

Student loan watchdog quits, says largest banks 'ripping off students'

Quote:
Student loan borrowers, already struggling to deal with big dollars in debt, have yet another reason to be nervous.

The top federal consumer watchdog for student loans is resigning effective Sept. 1.

"The American dream is under siege," wrote Seth Frotman, assistant director and student loan ombudsman for the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, in his resignation letter.

Frotman, the latest high-level departure from the CFPB, said borrowers are trapped in a broken student loan system but the administration is protecting lenders and big business.

As part of his heated comments, Frotman said new evidence has come to light showing that the nation's largest banks were "ripping off students on campuses across the country by saddling them with legally dubious account fees."

But he charged that the bureau leadership has suppressed publication of a report on the problem relating to the bank fees.

"You choose to leave students vulnerable to predatory practices and deny any responsibility to bring this information to light," Frotman wrote in his resignation letter.

Frotman had highly critical remarks when it came to the consumer bureau's acting director Mick Mulvaney, claiming that the bureau's new political leadership has "repeatedly undercut and undermined" staff working to assist student loan borrowers who may have been harmed by bad actors.................

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 8:10 pm 
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First thing that strikes me in Europe is how the trains are actually good for getting places, as opposed to here where they're really pretty dismal. Not just out to the burbs like in New York, but all over. They go everywhere, and everyone rides them. Everyone bitches about them, the way people do, and strikes are always a problem, but it still makes our semi-functioning rail passenger system look pretty poor. Which it is.

Europe has infrastructure issues. Italy, in particular, has drastically cut its spending on this. Some people think that's why the biggest bridge in Genoa collapsed a week or so back, killing something like 40 people. The roads in general tend to be well maintained, though some of the ones in the French countryside get pretty narrow. The big difference I see is the use of roundabouts instead of 4-way stops. They really do move traffic through faster, since vehicles keep moving. They also take up more room, but the centers make great little green spaces. Americans don't know how to drive in them, though.


Almost half of new construction at intersections here in Mn. are roundabouts. They work great.

Another new one is Diverging Diamond Interchange for bridges. Also great.

www.youtube.com Video from : www.youtube.com

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 4:45 am 
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Reminder from July: we have $$$ for 25,000 beds for immigrant children separated from their parents. We don't have $$$ for free college, tho

Trump’s Office of Refugee Resettlement Is Budgeting for a Surge in Child Separations - Slate

Quote:
The internal documents estimate that if 25,400 beds are needed, ORR would face a budget shortfall of $585 million for ORR in fiscal year 2018, which ends on Sept. 30. Under this scenario, that shortfall would increase to $1.3 billion in the first quarter of fiscal year 2019, adding up to a total shortfall of $1.9 billion for the period between Oct. 1, 2017, and Dec. 31, 2018. The documents stress that these budget estimates represent maximum possible expenditures and that actual expenses may be lower. The Department of Health and Human Services did not respond to multiple requests for comment about these figures or anything else relating to the documents.

To help cover these potential costs, the documents say, HHS will seek supplemental appropriations from Congress. The documents also indicate that HHS plans to pay for child separation by reallocating money from the Ryan White HIV/AIDS Program, which, according to its website, “provides a comprehensive system of care that includes primary medical care and essential support services for people living with HIV who are uninsured or underinsured.” Per the documents, the process of transferring those HIV/AIDS funds has already begun.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 4:49 am 
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We have $12 billion for farmers impacted by a pointless, something-to-prove trade provocation by the Trump administration.

We don't have $$$ for free college, though.

USDA Assists Farmers Impacted by Unjustified Retaliation - USDA.gov

Quote:
Specifically, USDA will authorize up to $12 billion in programs, which is in line with the estimated $11 billion impact of the unjustified retaliatory tariffs on U.S. agricultural goods. These programs will assist agricultural producers to meet the costs of disrupted markets.


:problem:

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