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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 6:43 pm 
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Vicious attacks of Native Americans by glen and joe and the rest of the GOP should be met with equal viciousness.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 6:47 pm 
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BTW, this is what 23andMe says on its website.

Incidentally, I may be one of the few people here who get what they mean at the bottom. Just saying.

https://customercare.23andme.com/hc/en- ... -ancestry-

Currently 23andMe has several features that can reveal genetic evidence of Native American ancestry, although they are not considered a confirmatory test or proof of such ancestry in a legal context.

It is important to note that even if an individual in your family tree was considered to be Native American, your own DNA may not reveal the Native American ancestry because each parent only passes down a random half of their DNA each generation.

Ancestry Composition
The Ancestry Composition report estimates what percent of your DNA comes from each of 45 populations* worldwide, reaching back about 500 years. It also tells you about your connection to over 115 Recent Ancestor Locations, which are specific countries where one or more of your ancestors likely lived within the last 200 years. Both of these analyses look at DNA you inherited from ancestors on both sides of your family.

Your results may include evidence of DNA from the native peoples of North, Central, and South America. This could include DNA assigned to the population labeled "Native American," "Broadly North Asian & Native American," or "Broadly East Asian & Native American."

For more information about the samples we use in our reference populations, see our Reference Populations article.

Note that this feature does not currently specify ancestry from a particular Native American group.

Haplogroups

These reports may indicate evidence of Native American ancestry based on your maternal or paternal haplogroup assignment. The specific associations between each haplogroup and its geographic origins are described in each report. Though there are a few exceptions, the maternal haplogroups found in unbroken Native American maternal lineages include branches of haplogroups A2, B2, C1 and C4, D1 and X2a. Paternal haplogroups associated with unbroken Native American paternal lineage are almost entirely limited to specific branches of haplogroups C and Q.

[snip][end]

BTW, if you know where Native American populations are originally from, you will get why the result could come back "Broadly Asian & Native American".

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 6:51 pm 
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Rump is a complete idiot, but when I see liberals talk for DAYS about this I wonder if maybe he ...

nah, he is an idiot

Either that or a fucking genius at getting us to focus on the completely wrong thing. Not picking on anyone in this thread mind you, I am guilty of it also.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 6:52 pm 
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My POV is Trump is ever much the bigoted liar he ever was, and Elizabeth Warren the decent, honest person.

I'm not trying to refute Trump or defend Warren (only, per se) -- I'm also speaking to the larger issues raised by these discussions.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:08 pm 
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My POV is Trump is ever much the bigoted liar he ever was, and Elizabeth Warren the decent, honest person.

I'm not trying to refute Trump or defend Warren (only, per se) -- I'm also speaking to the larger issues raised by these discussions.

I know, you are an educator and you do this because it is in your genes to seek, explain, understand, and that is all awesome, my friend.

I am just amazed, he is now proven absolutely to be a major felon, traitor, tax fraud, complete failure in business, and yet the news is why does Hillary defend Bill for getting a blow job and this nonsense.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:11 pm 
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BTW, this is what 23andMe says on its website.

Incidentally, I may be one of the few people here who get what they mean at the bottom. Just saying.

https://customercare.23andme.com/hc/en- ... -ancestry-

Currently 23andMe has several features that can reveal genetic evidence of Native American ancestry, although they are not considered a confirmatory test or proof of such ancestry in a legal context.

It is important to note that even if an individual in your family tree was considered to be Native American, your own DNA may not reveal the Native American ancestry because each parent only passes down a random half of their DNA each generation.

Ancestry Composition
The Ancestry Composition report estimates what percent of your DNA comes from each of 45 populations* worldwide, reaching back about 500 years. It also tells you about your connection to over 115 Recent Ancestor Locations, which are specific countries where one or more of your ancestors likely lived within the last 200 years. Both of these analyses look at DNA you inherited from ancestors on both sides of your family.

Your results may include evidence of DNA from the native peoples of North, Central, and South America. This could include DNA assigned to the population labeled "Native American," "Broadly North Asian & Native American," or "Broadly East Asian & Native American."

For more information about the samples we use in our reference populations, see our Reference Populations article.

Note that this feature does not currently specify ancestry from a particular Native American group.

Haplogroups

These reports may indicate evidence of Native American ancestry based on your maternal or paternal haplogroup assignment. The specific associations between each haplogroup and its geographic origins are described in each report. Though there are a few exceptions, the maternal haplogroups found in unbroken Native American maternal lineages include branches of haplogroups A2, B2, C1 and C4, D1 and X2a. Paternal haplogroups associated with unbroken Native American paternal lineage are almost entirely limited to specific branches of haplogroups C and Q.

[snip][end]

BTW, if you know where Native American populations are originally from, you will get why the result could come back "Broadly Asian & Native American".


TMK, no DNA test specifies ancestry from a particaly NA group because there are simply not enough people of NA ancestry taking the tests. They're frowned upon by tribal governments, and TBH even though it affects me personally, I don't blame tribal governments one bit. Well, except for the racist, historically white-aspirant ones like the Creek Nation and Cherokee Nation. :problem:

But anyway, this is where today's instant expertise espoused by conservative whites about EW's ineligibility to call herself "Native American" even stems from.

Conservative whites don't know jack crap about the blood quantum laws, disenfranchisement of Native Americans based on land claims by whites claiming to be 1/256th "Indian", what Land Runs really were, what the Trail of Tears really was, what "five civilized tribes" actually means, why it's significant that those tribes that JUST SO HAPPENED to be counted by conservative whites as "civilized" also JUST SO HAPPENED to be CONFEDERATE SIMPS; how African-American soldiers were turned against their own as Buffalo Soldiers participating in further elimination of Native Americans, why there was ever an Indian Child Welfare Act to protect from conservative whites forcing assimilation on NA children in the first place....

This country's legacy of white supremacist conservatism is such a racial clusterf.

It's in the headlines, today.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:21 pm 
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didnt they just change the method of testing and as result the results changed?


Not sure which they you mean?

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:04 pm 
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Ha, well this is cute. :problem:

:roll:

Cherokee Nation slams Elizabeth Warren's DNA test as 'inappropriate and wrong'

Quote:
"Using a DNA test to lay claim to any connection to the Cherokee Nation or any tribal nation, even vaguely, is inappropriate and wrong," said Chuck Hoskin Jr., the tribe's secretary of state.

"It makes a mockery out of DNA tests and its legitimate uses while also dishonoring legitimate tribal governments and their citizens, whose ancestors are well documented and whose heritage is proven."


:problem:

Lol f this ridiculous b.s.

TMK, EW is not trying to establish tribal membership with the Cherokee Nation or any other tribal nation with this test. Anybody who is actually trying to establish tribal membership already knows: tribes do not accept DNA testing as eligibility for membership. Neither does the federal government for getting a CDIB.

There are also other Cherokee Native Americans and sovereign nations in town; perhaps the CN has once again forgotten this? I'm actually kind of surprised the Cherokee Nation decided to wade into this. When it comes to eligibility issues, the CN might want to stick to resolving their decades-old Freedmen matter, their history of throwing their lot in with southern Confederacy, and what that still means for certain people trying to establish or re-establish tribal membership.

Cripes, the CN is so g.d. arrogant, sitting pretty behind their Confederate monuments in Talequah. I can't stand their leadership.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:15 pm 
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My D.N.A. test showed that I a W.A.S.P. through and through. Great Britain, Ireland, Scotland and Wales. I was surprised because I was always told my Family came over as Hessians during Revolution.

Gail on the other hand has a blood line that includes a former Governor (Mayor?) of New Amsterdam and a Man who was hung for being a Loyalist during the Revolution. She has also been deemed eligible to join the Mayflower Society, but the cost is prohibtive.

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Last edited by marindem on Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:32 pm 
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Meh, it just goes from bad to worse. This is making the rounds on my social this afternoon.

Image

Lol how in the HELL is anyone sitting in g.d. CANADA going to wag their fingers at the United States about 1- settler colonialism and 2- Native American policy issues? :problem:

This is my favorite part:

Quote:
Tribal governments establish regulations that do not use genetic ancestry testa but other forms of biological and political relationships to define our citizenries. Indigenous definitions of who we are continue to be background noise in Democrat vs. Republic party warring. Warren's attention continues to be focuses on settler state electoral politics and not good relationships with Indigenous communities.


Well, the author is probably right about that latter part. But I've got some additional news for Dr. Tallbear: any Nations like the Cherokee, Creek, or others reliant on a set of documents distinguishing "five 'civilized' tribes" from all others to establish who's in and who's out is already mired in the sunken place of "settler colonialism".

Good luck getting out of it...

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:40 pm 
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On the one hand, he's absolutely right about why the tribes don't accept DNA tests for tribal membership, and spot on for the reasons why.

There is a reason why folks like the kernel love the 23AndMe model of "genetically determined" identity - you can't disentangle modern DNA testing from a longer history of eugenics in this country. That is correct. I keep telling people that we continue to racialize our cultural and ethnic differences, and this continues to be more of it.

IMHO. the reason why genetic testing can't always show tribal differences, is that the difference throughout the U.S. of tribe A and tribe B living next to each other in many areas had more to do with CULTURAL than genetic or phenotypic differences. All the tribes intermarried.

On the other, of course, as you just said, Elizabeth Warren is not trying to "claim" a Cherokee "identity" to take an unearned tribal membership, minority based affirmative action programs, or steal land and property from modern day Cherokee. :roll:

BTW, AFAIK, she also has a fairly typical Democratic party record on voting on indigenous peoples' issues, nothing distinguished, but not bad. As I understand it, she also has good relations with Native communities in Mass.

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Last edited by ProfessorX on Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:41 pm 
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really not important what her heritage is or isnt, just that she does good for the people she represents and the country in general

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:57 pm 
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By the way, so-called whites...speaking of 23andMe, caveat emptor...

DNA ancestry searches can now identify most white Americans. Here’s why that’s legally questionable - PBS

Quote:
When Sacramento police captured Joseph James DeAngelo, accused of being the notorious “Golden State Killer,” their chief described the event as a “perfectly executed arrest.” The episode drew nationwide attention not only because it allegedly solved a cold-case string of murders and rapes, but due to how detectives settled on DeAngelo after 44 years.

The investigative team created a fake profile on GEDmatch, a public genealogy database, based on DNA from the crime scene. They probed the database for distant relatives, building a family tree with thousands of individuals—and one branch pointing to a 72-year-old retiree living in a Sacramento suburb. Deputies put DeAngelo under surveillance, waiting until he discarded something with his DNA, which matched their sample of the crime scene.

DeAngelo was an extraordinary case. But it turns out the police—or just about anyone—could use the same tactics to find the identities of millions of Americans, according to two studies published Thursday.
Within two to three years, due to the popularity of ancestry databases, scientists could identify close to every European American in the United States using this method.

The first, released in Science Magazine, shows most Americans of European descent can already be found this way, merely because so many people’s relatives have shipped their DNA to genealogy databases like GEDmatch.

If your family hails from Europe and your DNA record is public—even if this record is anonymous because your name has been removed from it—these scientists can figure out who you are 60 percent of the time.

The second study, published in Cell, shows that customer profiles on these genealogy websites, regardless of their race, could be matched with DNA records stored in law enforcement databases. This cross-pollination undermines a common assumption that these forensic databases do not contain sensitive information, such as health data.


This is, I suppose, the seamy underside of so-called white privilege. What I do wonder is how many of us nonwhites with significant "Euro" DNA this is going to take down the legal rabbit hole as well.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:38 pm 
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Thread.

https://twitter.com/elizabethforma/stat ... 12768?s=21

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:01 am 
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These consumer-send-in-your-spit tests are less accurate than people think. I remember the kernel saying everybody should take one, and I remember pointing this out.

That said, the assessor said her NA ancestor was in a range from 6 to 10 generations, with 8 being the most likely median number. (i.e. = 1/256.)

6 generations is not less likely than 10. We just know the possible range, and the median point.

Final point, even Ancestry.Com will note this, DNA tests really only zero in on very generalized clines of genetic ancestry, if you really want to find the specific ethnicity of your ancestors, you have to search through actual genealogical research.

A DNA test can show you are of some Native ancestry - of some kind. What tribe? That requires actual genealogical work.

One of my aunts did a family tree on my mother's side and traced our ancestors back to England a couple of hundred years ago. My mother to us we were half-German on my father's side with the other half being English, French, and Dutch. My brother did the 23andMe and showed us the results. One was a map with the areas or genes said we came from and it covered England, the Netherlands, France, Germany, and most of the other European countries.

23andMe can provide some information as to which groups of people you may be related to but like you said, genealogical research is more important. I'm half German but my father's family came from Russia, along the Volga River, so while many would say I should be Russian the truth is his family and thousands of Germans were invited to settle he Volga River area so I'm still of German ancestry. Good genealogical research would note that.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:20 pm 
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Vicious attacks of Native Americans by glen and joe and the rest of the GOP should be met with equal viciousness.


Where exactly was any attack vicious or otherwise? Here is a link nobody will look at showing how silly her test results are, how they show no link to Native Americans.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... st/573205/

I also read another article that said her DNA could be as much as 1/64 or as little as 1/1024 Native American. Quite a spread, seeing how she never announced beforehand she was being tested I wonder how many she took until she received the desired results.

Sidebar: the entire deal is quite stupid. Did she mislead about her background yes she did. Did she profit from it, indirectly yes directly no. Does it make a dimes worth of difference: no it doesn't.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:30 pm 
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I also read another article that said her DNA could be as much as 1/64 or as little as 1/1024 Native American.


Haha, guy who voted for flagrant segregationists snickers at the idea of "1/1024," from a state with a history of trying to implement one-drop negro laws.

Where's your DNA test?

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:32 pm 
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Interesting article. I agree with most of it, especially her point about identity being rooted in culture more than genetics, but I will quibble with this point.

[she wrote:]
The terms Native American and indigenous are not interchangeable. While indigenous is ascribed globally, Native American is usually specific to the tribal peoples of the U.S.

Bullshit. Last I checked, the Americas include North America, South America, and Central America. Canada BTW is also part of North America. :roll:

Guatemalan indigenous and Brazilian indigenous are also "Native Americans".

And if she really wants to argue the indigenous peoples of North and South America are extremely genetically different from each other ... BTW, studies show, no. The migrations may not have been, as was thought, all at one time across a Bering Strait land bridge ... those theories are evolving ... but South American indigenous people are still basically the same folks from the same ancestral regions in Asia, some who went further south when migrating than the other folks.

P.S. BTW, the cultures of North American natives and South American natives are also very similar. ;)

P.S.2 some tribes use 1/16 as their blood quantum requirement -- BTW.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_qua ... membership

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Last edited by ProfessorX on Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:36 pm 
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Interesting article. I agree with most of it, especially her point about identity being rooted in culture more than genetics, but I will quibble with this point.

[she wrote:]
The terms Native American and indigenous are not interchangeable. While indigenous is ascribed globally, Native American is usually specific to the tribal peoples of the U.S.

Bullshit. Last I checked, the Americas include North America, South America, and Central America. Canada BTW is also part of North America. :roll:

Guatemalan indigenous and Brazilian indigenous are also "Native Americans".

And if she really wants to argue the indigenous peoples of North and South America are extremely genetically different from each other ... BTW, studies show, no.


Lol since when does glenfs read The Atlantic, or any articles on Native American matters. :problem:

If he knew of any of the scholars he is currently parroting today and thinks *I* don't like so-called white people? Lol, I would challenge him to close out of the Twitter tab and sit down and read even a page of these folks, whose every paragraph will make him cry hot Birth of A Nation tears of reverse-oppression. :problem:

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:26 pm 
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Is it true Warren was self identifying on official records as Native American?

If so, then she probably shouldnt have done that, I will worry about her doing that when rump apologizes for selling my country, my house, my history to the russians. Or when he apologizes for alleging to have contributed over and over to charity while in fact having never, not once in his entire life giving a penny and worse, TOOK money from St Jude charity.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:35 pm 
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Is it true Warren was self identifying on official records as Native American?


She never claimed to BE Native American or a minority. That is bull dada. Did she tell people she believed she was of Native ancestry? Yes, yes she did, but never to "get hired as a minority" or some of the other bullshit people have spewed.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:36 pm 
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She never claimed to BE Native American or a minority. That is bull dada. Did she tell people she believed she was of Native ancestry? Yes, yes she did, but never to "get hired as a minority" or some of the other bullshit people have spewed.

What I am reading (not WAPO but other stuff), probably from righty is that she wrote that down on her college employment paperwork or something, if NOT true then look at me, trusting the traitors AGAIN

So she did at one time it seems

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... 528cdc8624


So what we are talking about is this while the rump and glen administration torture thousands of children...sigh

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:00 pm 
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What I am reading (not WAPO but other stuff), probably from righty is that she wrote that down on her college employment paperwork or something, if NOT true then look at me, trusting the traitors AGAIN

So she did at one time it seems

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... 528cdc8624


So what we are talking about is this while the rump and glen administration torture thousands of children...sigh


You know what's really fascinating to me is these conservative whites fuming that she's "1/64th" or "1/1024th" or whatever. While they have ZERO problems with their own history of having disenfranchised entire state and local populations using their so-called "one drop negro" rules, and absurd classifications like "mullato," "octaroon," "quadroon," or "halfbreed." :problem:

I extend the same antipathy to certain Native Americans who have also gotten caught up in this blood quantum/lineage/Dawes-Baker Rolls/"Indian by blood" etc fundamentalism, as if it those things accurately describe or explain anything.

I do get the need to restrict tribal membership and enrollment, given the history of white people claiming they're 1/256th and then making a land/something-for-nothing/free-bennies claim. I really do get that history and why tribes have devised these various ways to protect themselves from further exploitation and disenfranchisement.

But these same cop-callers freaking out about Elizabeth Warren's DNA test have nothing to say about the North Dakota voter ID law which stripped voting rights from Native Americans living on reservations, nothing to say about a federal court stripping the Indian Child Welfare Act which was designed to prevent genocidal government placement of Native children with white families, and about a million other matters affecting Native American tribes.

Oh, but let's wring our hands and get hot under the collar because Elizabeth Warren's DNA test sedd she might be "only" 1/64th Native American!! :problem: :roll: :problem:

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:04 pm 
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Uh huh. Here was her horrid crime. Listing herself as being of Native ancestry, because she wanted to meet others of Native ancestry.

From the above:
The closest Warren got to acknowledging that she proactively listed herself as Native American at work was when she said she put her heritage in that national directory in hopes of finding other professors across the country with similar backgrounds: “I listed myself in the directory in the hopes that it might mean that I would be invited to a luncheon, a group, something that might happen with people who are like I am. Nothing like that ever happened, that was clearly not the use for it, and so I stopped checking it off,” she said.

She must be punished for wanting to meet people she thought might be like herself! :roll:

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:07 pm 
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You know what's really fascinating to me is these conservative whites fuming that she's "1/64th" or "1/1024th" or whatever. While they have ZERO problems with their own history of having disenfranchised entire state and local populations using their so-called "one drop negro" rules, and absurd classifications like "mullato," "octaroon," "quadroon," or "halfbreed." :problem:

I extend the same antipathy to certain Native Americans who have also gotten caught up in this blood quantum/lineage/Dawes-Baker Rolls/"Indian by blood" etc fundamentalism, as if it those things accurately describe or explain anything.

I do get the need to restrict tribal membership and enrollment, given the history of white people claiming they're 1/256th and then making a land/something-for-nothing/free-bennies claim. I really do get that history and why tribes have devised these various ways to protect themselves from further exploitation and disenfranchisement.

But these same cop-callers freaking out about Elizabeth Warren's DNA test have nothing to say about the North Dakota voter ID law which stripped voting rights from Native Americans living on reservations, nothing to say about a federal court stripping the Indian Child Welfare Act which was designed to prevent genocidal government placement of Native children with white families, and about a million other matters affecting Native American tribes.

Oh, but let's wring our hands and get hot under the collar because Elizabeth Warren's DNA test sedd she might be "only" 1/64th Native American!! :problem: :roll: :problem:


So they are angry that a democrat claims to be someone they hate anyway...i dont understand. Why would they care if a white person claimed to be a little POC...they would just hate them more, i thought.

Seriously, time for talk long gone. There wont be any talk after the debacle next month either. I am afraid Malcolm is right, expect massive voter suppression, elections where it will be made to look like dems are cheating with the help of China, etc. Gonna be real bad. Even thought about flying to see my grandchildren one last time. But I would have to go to Seattle, Bay Area and Los Angeles.

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