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 Post subject: We Must Go Beyond Trump
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:37 pm 
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Trump is small the power he has access to is great as are the powers of our democracy and policies,in this article Reverend Barber Challenges us to distinguish between which to pursue and which will yield the greater results and healing of our battered society.


We Must Go Beyond Trump and Reconstruct Our Democracy

Quote:
Since the inauguration of President Trump, millions of Americans have marched and rallied to protest an administration whose policies have targeted Muslims, undocumented immigrants, anti-poverty programs, women’s rights and the LGBTQ community while also giving massive tax breaks to wealthy Americans, loosening corporate regulations, and remaking the federal courts through extreme judicial appointments. This administration’s use of policy as a weapon against whole classes of people has elicited a wave of nonviolent direct action unlike anything America has experienced since the civil rights movement.

But the collective moral outrage which many label “The Resistance” must move beyond the villain to a common vision for reconstructing democracy in America this November. Over the past two years, Trump has been tremendously successful at making sure our 24-hour news cycle stays focused on him. But Trump is not the problem with our democracy. He is only a symptom of a deeper moral malady that keeps us from telling the truth about how the moral concerns of everyday Americans have been drowned out of our political debates for decades. As America prepares for the upcoming midterm elections, we must be clear that this is a referendum on truth, not Trump.................

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:27 am 
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I've been trying to develop a personal response to Trump outrages of the day.

First I exclaiming "oh' really?!?" Followed by stomping outside to urinate on the ground.

It's working for me up here in the hills, but it's got some problematic glitches insofar as working down in town. :|


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:10 am 
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I guess I would point out there's short term problems, and there's long term problems.

I agree with Bob Woodward and many others that Trump is a personal danger to this country, having been given powers he has occasionally used for destructive ends, and the potential to do worse. I'd like to get rid of him before 2020, and we all know how that happens, but if need be, put him out on his tukas in 2020 though the normal electoral procedure.

If you want him gone before 2020, you might help facilitate this by ensuring a Democratic House, and/or a Democratic Senate. Now look, I know the odds guys are still putting the latter low. More reason to put in more effort and try harder. :mrgreen:

There's many other problems in this country, and I don't disagree with Rev. Barber's analysis that Trump is a symptom. That said, addressing many of those problems requires a) legislation from Congress and b) a POTUS who will sign that legislation so we don't have to override a veto. I think we know what kind of Congress will be more likely to write that legislation.

That's the long term. And it starts on (or before) Nov. 6th (the before being many states with early voting.)

P.S. during WW II, the French Resistance (Maquis) focused first and foremost on removing the Vichy regime (and German occupation), then on how to reconstruct French society afterwards. Achieve short term goals, keep long term goals in mind, work on long term goals next. At meetings of Indivisible I've been to, we don't just talk about Trump and how soon he should be gone, though yeah that's a topic. But we also talk about all the other policy stuff we want to work on. You can walk and chew gum at the same time.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:29 am 
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X, I love early voting because it allows me to have early personal completion of a short term goal, for good or for bad once the voting is done then one can transition and move forward to focus long term. Long term focus allows one to pull the blinders back a bit and function in a frame work with a longer time span than just enough to see beyond the tip of ones nose. All of a sudden one sees further, to a time beyond when he will be there.

It's more than voting, I do more than voting, by the time I vote I've finished those too. Beyond the middle of last week if money has not been contributed, has been already transferred, it will pour in too late to change the outcome.

I'm still on the hook for answering my phone on election day. Someone from the party might call and ask me to do an hours drive to haul some people to the polls. I doubt the phone will ring. It didn't ring last election in 2016, and by mail voting was the solution to that problem and my mail voting is threatening to close those old in person voting places as well. Then the only in person voting for those who for some reason need to will be at the office next the Library in town, a nice park like setting for all. Well lit and Safe.


When I see further down the road, the worst case I see is kind of like returning to the 1960's. That's pretty bad, but if worst come to worse I did live through it. Life on Earth will continue even if I don't.

When I did live through it I was like six and was facing the children of John Birchers at school. I was perceived to be the son of a Jewish Commie Union Organizing bastard. Life wasn't easy for me in the 1960's, America wasn't so great. And it didn't just happen to me. A call out to Carmen.

No, we don't want to return to that. We don't want to lose ground we've gained. I can get a lot more done when I'm as paralyzed with fear.

When I was at sea I learned that setting aside fear, not reacting to fear was the best way to be able to do the work needed to survive.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:42 pm 
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I guess I would point out there's short term problems, and there's long term problems.

I agree with Bob Woodward and many others that Trump is a personal danger to this country, having been given powers he has occasionally used for destructive ends, and the potential to do worse. I'd like to get rid of him before 2020, and we all know how that happens, but if need be, put him out on his tukas in 2020 though the normal electoral procedure.

If you want him gone before 2020, you might help facilitate this by ensuring a Democratic House, and/or a Democratic Senate. Now look, I know the odds guys are still putting the latter low. More reason to put in more effort and try harder. :mrgreen:

There's many other problems in this country, and I don't disagree with Rev. Barber's analysis that Trump is a symptom. That said, addressing many of those problems requires a) legislation from Congress and b) a POTUS who will sign that legislation so we don't have to override a veto. I think we know what kind of Congress will be more likely to write that legislation.

That's the long term. And it starts on (or before) Nov. 6th (the before being many states with early voting.)

P.S. during WW II, the French Resistance (Maquis) focused first and foremost on removing the Vichy regime (and German occupation), then on how to reconstruct French society afterwards. Achieve short term goals, keep long term goals in mind, work on long term goals next. At meetings of Indivisible I've been to, we don't just talk about Trump and how soon he should be gone, though yeah that's a topic. But we also talk about all the other policy stuff we want to work on. You can walk and chew gum at the same time.



Nope, sorry Reverend...

Quote:
But Trump is not the problem with our democracy. He is only a symptom of a deeper moral malady that keeps us from telling the truth about how the moral concerns of everyday Americans have been drowned out of our political debates for decades. As America prepares for the upcoming midterm elections, we must be clear that this is a referendum on truth, not Trump.................


Is this technically true? I guess, I would add to it but what DOES matter right now IS rump, rump is willing to do things no other politician we know of is, although now they are because of him.

Sorry Reverend, I love you but you are applying a logical and christian approach to something that doesnt deserve it. I like your point PROF of short term and long term, there IS NO LONG TERM if we dont win next week, THAT may be what pisses me off about this.

Any approach like this only works if we take back the power. I think some folks still dont realize where we are, and of all people I know The Reverend must, so maybe he is just trying to appeal to a broader audience which is fine.


I just tweeted to him

Quote:
@RevDrBarber Love you but your article about going beyond rump is not what we need right now. There is NO TOMORROW if we dont win next week. VOTE VOTE VOTE for ANY Democrat, period.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:38 pm 
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Nope, sorry Reverend...



Is this technically true? I guess, I would add to it but what DOES matter right now IS rump, rump is willing to do things no other politician we know of is, although now they are because of him.

Sorry Reverend, I love you but you are applying a logical and christian approach to something that doesnt deserve it. I like your point PROF of short term and long term, there IS NO LONG TERM if we dont win next week, THAT may be what pisses me off about this.

Any approach like this only works if we take back the power. I think some folks still dont realize where we are, and of all people I know The Reverend must, so maybe he is just trying to appeal to a broader audience which is fine.


I just tweeted to him



I sure do agree with VOTE VOTE VOTE for ANY Democrat! Root Hogs !@o@!

I don't agree with the period, I use one of these =>> !

!@o@! is an A-10 attack aircraft, sometimes their pilots call their craft Hogs.



I like Rev. Barber and I would have said that if his name had come up before he agreed with me. :D


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 6:48 pm 
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Libertas wrote:


Nope, sorry Reverend...



Is this technically true? I guess, I would add to it but what DOES matter right now IS rump, rump is willing to do things no other politician we know of is, although now they are because of him.

Sorry Reverend, I love you but you are applying a logical and christian approach to something that doesnt deserve it. I like your point PROF of short term and long term, there IS NO LONG TERM if we dont win next week, THAT may be what pisses me off about this.

Any approach like this only works if we take back the power. I think some folks still dont realize where we are, and of all people I know The Reverend must, so maybe he is just trying to appeal to a broader audience which is fine.


I just tweeted to him



Hey Lib did you see this one?

https://twitter.com/RevDrBarber/status/1057997620768108544


Preaching Gospel Of Love And Justice, William Barber Mobilizes Progressive Christians

Quote:
........"I do not see any other reason to be alive if I'm not working to address the issues of systemic racism, poverty, ecological devastation, the war economy," he says, "and to challenge this false Christian narrative that says all God is concerned about is hating gay people, prayer in the schools, gun rights, [and] tax cuts, when I know that is not the Gospel."

Asked what he plans to do with the MacArthur grant he has just received, Barber says he was told the award was given not for what he had done, but what he had the potential to do.

"I just intend to keep going," he says, and then he returns to the words of the prophet Micah. "Otherwise, what's the point of living, if you're not going to do justice, love mercy, and walk humbly before God? What's the point?"


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:17 pm 
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A look at the state of America with William Barber

Quote:
Reverend William Barber is one of America's great moral leaders. He speaks to Christiane Amanpour about immigration, poverty and voter suppression in America.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:31 pm 
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When I did live through it I was like six and was facing the children of John Birchers at school. I was perceived to be the son of a Jewish Commie Union Organizing bastard. Life wasn't easy for me in the 1960's, America wasn't so great. And it didn't just happen to me. A call out to Carmen.


TF are you calling me out for?

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:49 pm 
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Nope, sorry Reverend...


Quote:
But Trump is not the problem with our democracy. He is only a symptom of a deeper moral malady that keeps us from telling the truth about how the moral concerns of everyday Americans have been drowned out of our political debates for decades. As America prepares for the upcoming midterm elections, we must be clear that this is a referendum on truth, not Trump.................


Quote:
Is this technically true? I guess, I would add to it but what DOES matter right now IS rump, rump is willing to do things no other politician we know of is, although now they are because of him.

Sorry Reverend, I love you but you are applying a logical and christian approach to something that doesnt deserve it. I like your point PROF of short term and long term, there IS NO LONG TERM if we dont win next week, THAT may be what pisses me off about this.

Any approach like this only works if we take back the power. I think some folks still dont realize where we are, and of all people I know The Reverend must, so maybe he is just trying to appeal to a broader audience which is fine.


For myself, I really agree with the idea that the the problems of the US do not begin and end with Donald Trump. I've been personally saying for the past 3 years, he is a symptom. It's why I make all these history posts.

I do get why he's saying that it's not a referendum on Trump (and agree with you that hes wrong on it...it is indeed a referendum on Trump..) because Trump tells his cult that this midterm is all about him.

I have to disagree that there is no long term after the midterms. With all the voter suppression happening, we have to be prepared for another two years of a Republican House and Senate along with another two years of the pumpkin spice George Wallace.

Remember, the tradition that Rev. Barber comes from has been through worse, though you're right that the US has never been in this spot before with a president like this. And they were definitely in it for the long term. A lot of those people are still around.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 1:23 am 
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TF are you calling me out for?


I thought the context was clear. It didn't just happen to me. I've read your story's. I think you endured worse.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 1:59 am 
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I thought the context was clear. It didn't just happen to me. I've read your story's. I think you endured worse.


Okay, looks like you meant a shoutout rather than a callout.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 2:22 am 
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Yes, a shout out.

Internally I don't see a difference, but I'm sort of vaguely aware that there is a difference in usage. In the city.

Out here in the country if one is calling, they are shouting. Distances are big.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 9:14 am 
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Internally I don't see a difference, but I'm sort of vaguely aware that there is a difference in usage. In the city.


This is the internet, where there is a huge difference between a callout and a shoutout.

Let's move on.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 9:26 am 
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The difference should be known as callouts are against board rules (though they happen plenty).

Shoutouts are like "hey user Bob Jones! Hello!" or "Welcome back! Bob Jones! Haven't seen ya in a while". Or even "Hey! Bob Jones! You might be interested in this!" Those are allowed.

Callouts are like "Hey! Bob Jones! Answer for all the perfidy and villainy you post on this MB!" or "Hey! Bob Jones! I bet you have no answer for the fact that your political party sucks ass!" or "See everybody, Bob Jones is always totally full of crap!" They're negative in nature. Almost always they contain or invoke personal attacks.

BTW, as I said, they happen plenty here anyway, I refrain from criticizing the mods who I know have lives, I also don't feel a need to single out perps as that in itself is a form of callout (!), I'm merely pointing out what everybody knows.

I think I've skirted that line myself, especially with really irritatingly trollish users of this board (*), but, I'm human.

(*) Everyone I'm thinking of is gone.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 7:09 pm 
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Trump is small the power he has access to is great as are the powers of our democracy and policies,in this article Reverend Barber Challenges us to distinguish between which to pursue and which will yield the greater results and healing of our battered society.


We Must Go Beyond Trump and Reconstruct Our Democracy




I believe the poster here is correct. I believe what we are going to see if the Democratic Party wins the House is so many hearings as various committee chairmen fall all over each other for TV facetime, that the US people will role their eyes, tune out and say there they go again. With the end result being the electorate turning on the democratic party.

What I believe they should do is hold hearing on Trump on 5 or less issues with 3 being the perfect number and make them the more serious charges. That way to coin a phrase it doesn't look as if the Dems are desperate mob who can't get over losing the WH to Trump.


While at the same time fulfilling the purpose of showing the American people just what a corrupt person Trump is and perhaps making a case for impeachment in the arena of public opinion.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 7:21 pm 
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desperate mob


Nobody who votes Republican, after two years of Nuremburg rallies shrieking "lock her up" at the drop of a hat, after falling for Fox and Breitbart propaganda that there's Middle Easterners in a Central American caravan, that said caravan is an invading army that merits 15,000 of our troops amassed on our own border, has any business fretting about somebody else looking like a desperate mob.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 7:29 pm 
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Nobody who votes Republican, after two years of Nuremburg rallies shrieking "lock her up" at the drop of a hat, after falling for Fox and Breitbart propaganda that there's Middle Easterners in a Central American caravan, that said caravan is an invading army that merits 15,000 of our troops amassed on our own border, has any business fretting about somebody else looking like a desperate mob.


I will remind you at the risk ofwhataboutism that CADEM once chanted in unison Fuck Trump as Nancy Pelosi stood at the podium very early in his term. Proving that there are assholes on both sides and we should hardly compare those who go to a Trump to the rest of the GOP.


As for Breitbart I will start that chant Fuck Breitbart. They are obvious the grifters you speak of taking advantage of and getting rich off the stupid.

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"within weeks of being rid of the likes of you, rid of every fucking one of you,we would begin to see what kind of country this ought to be" Ike Bana 6/14/18


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 7:36 pm 
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Dems are desperate mob who can't get over losing the WH to Trump.


.


1. You're defending Trump again and playing games with politics. There are MANY republicans that want to see Trump gone and they are voting for Dems these midterms to place checks on him. They know what's at stake.

2. There are actual thread topics on here about the use of the word "mob" by the right wing. I started one such thread quite awhile back (you don't read much so you either missed or ignored it)when I noticed they started using the word, which is 100 percent certifiable projection, as outlined by Carmen. The fact that you're doing it here just proves once again that you have zero ability to think for yourself, and you're very obviously easily programmed by right wing propaganda and talking points, which you very obviously spend a lot time consuming. It would be amusing if it was so utterly sad and pathetic seeing people such as yourself so completely brainwashed.

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The American people have once again rejected liberalism. So Much For the Blue Wave

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because of this board... it will be very hard for me to support a Democratic candidate.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 7:41 pm 
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I will remind you at the risk ofwhataboutism that CADEM once chanted in unison Fuck Trump as Nancy Pelosi stood at the podium very early in his term.


So what.

Conservative whites repeat this and other fascist-minded chants multiple times a week, now.

For people who are otherwise oh-so concerned about government waste, you guys sure are silent about the taxpayer cost of Donald Trump throwing these Nuremburg rallies. Even Fox Propaganda Station has gotten sick of them.

Quote:
Proving that


You haven't proven anything.

Conservative whites are duped by a cult demagogue who's really good at stoking your 150+ year old grievances that you no longer rule. That's the only thing these dumb pep rallies prove.

Quote:
As for Breitbart I will start that chant Fuck Breitbart. They are obvious the grifters you speak of taking advantage of and getting rich off the stupid.


Breitbart propaganda and Republican Party policy are indistinguishable.

The Breitbart audience is indistinguishable from the average Republican lawmaker, head of state, or voter -- Republican propagandists and voters populate the site.

There is NO difference between them.

Yet you vote for it.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 7:47 pm 
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Why would chanting fuck hitler be a bad thing?

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 7:53 pm 
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Why would chanting fuck hitler be a bad thing?


Well it's intolerant! and intolerance is being racist! or whatever!!

Liberals are supposed to be tolerant of violent rightwing intolerance and eliminationism.

A lot like Black people are supposed to forgive conservative whites when they mass-murder our little old ladies at Wednesday Night Prayer Meeting.

The inferiors are not supposed to say or do anything when the superiors kick them around. Becuz denying them their Lebensraum is being unfair and intolerant to God's Favorites.

:problem:

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 8:12 pm 
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1. You're defending Trump again and playing games with politics. There are MANY republicans that want to see Trump gone and they are voting for Dems these midterms to place checks on him. They know what's at stake.

2. There are actual thread topics on here about the use of the word "mob" by the right wing. I started one such thread quite awhile back (you don't read much so you either missed or ignored it)when I noticed they started using the word, which is 100 percent certifiable projection, as outlined by Carmen. The fact that you're doing it here just proves once again that you have zero ability to think for yourself, and you're very obviously easily programmed by right wing propaganda and talking points, which you very obviously spend a lot time consuming. It would be amusing if it was so utterly sad and pathetic seeing people such as yourself so completely brainwashed.


No person who continues to vote Republican after the sick display of Republican values of the past 2 years is qualified to whine about Dem "mobs". Whatever they think those are.

That's all conservative whites are, and that's all conservative whites ever have been: a vicious mob of pitchforks and torches and burning crosses, with a rigged, crosschecked, voter-ID'd, grandfathered, literacy tested, exact-matched vote.

Conservative whites are the most violent people in this hemisphere; anyone in doubt can watch them fall all over themselves in admiration of stupid little fascist, Bolsonaro.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 8:19 pm 
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I believe the poster here is correct. I believe what we are going to see if the Democratic Party wins the House is so many hearings as various committee chairmen fall all over each other for TV facetime, that the US people will role their eyes, tune out and say there they go again. With the end result being the electorate turning on the democratic party.

What I believe they should do is hold hearing on Trump on 5 or less issues with 3 being the perfect number and make them the more serious charges. That way to coin a phrase it doesn't look as if the Dems are desperate mob who can't get over losing the WH to Trump.


While at the same time fulfilling the purpose of showing the American people just what a corrupt person Trump is and perhaps making a case for impeachment in the arena of public opinion.


our own corruption is much worse and way more dangerous than trumps. we know in our hearts all of us democrat or republican that voter suppression gerrymandering is horrid and has horrid results such as awarding our collective powers and will to people like trump we know citizens united is equally horrid in its subversion of our collective will yet these things happen right out in the open with all of our knowledge and blessed by our tolerance for it. we need to block up that avenue first of all.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 8:29 pm 
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Why would chanting fuck hitler be a bad thing?


That has got to be the question of the year. The real kicker.


I guess I would be rendered speechless at first encounter. I sure would stop whatever I was doing to stare.

After that initial period of non-response had passed I suppose I would try to put it in perspective. Somewhere in that I suppose I would feel relief that the person(s) shouting that were shouting that instead of poking around in graveyards looking for Hitlers corpse. Clothes pin hold thy nose tight for the thought of it, can you imagine the stench.

:|

I think it would be kind of like that ostrich I saw along one of my counties roads last week, it would be memorable sight and I would tell people I had seen it.

Folks chanting fuck Hitler. Wow!


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