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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:48 pm 
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the aerials.
the only shit burning is what remains. the other side of the highway is nothing but dirt since
the last fire burned that slope hillside taking all trees and normal vegetation with it. its dirt.

the aerials are shocking. there is hardly ANY vegetation left anywhere.
small pockets which are now burning.
then it gets weirder when you see a burned out house with vegetation standing near it.

again i ask: where is the military to help the people the citizens.
where are the big water dropper planes.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:50 pm 
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the infrastructure is gone is many of these areas. elec poles are down, water systems down.
no one cannot go back and stay in these burn areas. they can visit but they cant stay.
they have to find a new place to "stay".

id suggest if you want to help...call your own local media and ask them why the military
is not called up to help american citizens, where are the big water droppers.
you can let them know how you feel since you are a citizen who may also get let down in
a disaster.

we have a large us military force and they are not being used to help the citizens of the country
they are sppd to be defending.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:57 pm 
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we have a large us military force and they are not being used to help the citizens of the country
they are sppd to be defending.


Exactly. Instead 5000 of them are deployed at the border shoveling horse shit and waiting for a fictitious invasion that's no longer being covered by the news.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:12 pm 
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The military has air tankers that can be activated to fight fire. They put tanks in C-130s and activate the crews that have actually trained to do this. They're in the reserves or National Guard.

I haven't seen them on these fires.

Time was, that until some percentage of private operators was engaged, they couldn't fly. Protecting American free enterprise and all that. That changed after a couple of times when assets weren't available, and I think now they can call them up immediately.

I don't know why they haven't.

The super scooper airplanes are Canadian, but I believe they are now based in SoCal year round. Somebody got their budget. They used to spend the summer up there, then when the Quebec fire season ended, they came down here for a few months. As we know, though, fire seasons are now all year.

I've seen them on TV. Right now they're on the fire in the Santa Susana Pass, since that is the most immediate threat. That fire's either the Peak Fire or the Rocky Fire. There were two fires in the area, both on rocky peaks. One got knocked down pretty fast, other one has an active firefight going.

No cracks about the Rocky Fire Horror Show.

Anyway, the scoops both come in together, and give hot spots the old one-two punch. They drop upwind and by the time it reaches the ground, it's like an artificial cloudburst for maybe 15 seconds. It's very effective, but not always the best tool for a given fire fighting task. If they're trying to lay down lines in advance of the fire front, they use that red phoscheck stuff that sticks to everything and renders it non-flammable. It works like a charm, though wind-driven fires can jump it into areas past the line.

Back in the Rich Kid Ghetto, I watched the scoops fill up in the ocean many times. Pretty spectacular to see. Huge roostertail.

The heavy air tankers, which are DC-10s and at least one 747, have been on these fires from the start. There's a DC-10 and the 747 on the Camp Fire, and another DC-10 plus an MD-80 on the Woolsey Fire.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:17 pm 
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----The heavy air tankers, which are DC-10s and at least one 747, have been on these fires from the start. There's a DC-10 and the 747 on the Camp Fire, and another DC-10 plus an MD-80 on the Woolsey Fire.----


thanks for telling that. ive not seen anything but huey types in the air via live tv from CA.
i breathe a sigh of relief, thank you. havent even seen a 130 airborne out there via news who usually
make a show of watching them drop, which is good.
all ive seen is small choppers. ive seen some slurry on the ground but didnt see it dropped.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:23 pm 
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Our TV has the heavy air tankers on all the time. They're incredible to watch. Those pilots must be amazing.

Choppers galore. Some old Hueys and a bunch of Firehawks, yet another Blackhawk/Seahawk type variant. Also that heavy scoop helo which drops a penis-like pipe into the nearest body of water, fills up, and drops somewhere.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:00 pm 
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Our TV has the heavy air tankers on all the time. They're incredible to watch. Those pilots must be amazing.

Choppers galore. Some old Hueys and a bunch of Firehawks, yet another Blackhawk/Seahawk type variant. Also that heavy scoop helo which drops a penis-like pipe into the nearest body of water, fills up, and drops somewhere.

what the hell channel you got on?
ive had them all on and only a few even go live. i get abc when its live on the fires, no cbs seems live,
bit of fox and ktla when they chose to cover.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:03 pm 
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nbc seems only live at dinner news time. theyre covering right now...

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:21 pm 
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i did see whats that long hose open bay plane..ferget the name, did see that.

on the ranch there had been an earlier fire in Black Forest, about 7? years prior to the big
black forest fire. it was small when the AF got there, started by a guy trying to mow his
field so the grass was not long and a threat whenthe machine blew a spark and set the filed on fire.

CoSprings state, whomever got the AF tankers over that one real fast, wanting to prevent what was
almost the exact same situation a few years later when Black Forest did burn up.
anyhow, watching those planes come in low and drop sluury and warer over that forst from my
living room windows...i mean it gets real upclose and clear seeing them that close.
black forest had been logged back in settler times in that area. they took all the big trees
so what was left was, became, a very thick tall not too thin, it was a good forest, but it got too
congested with tall pines.

that is the kind of thing called "management" of forest that makes a diff. keep it fairly spread out so trees
actually grow to a decent size.
with all the new people in black forest and all the home building since the snows were no longer
8 feet deep all winter...the tree growth got too thick and when it burned it took 2/3s of the forest
out. everything.

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They are racists hate mongers I piss down the throats of these Nazis Im too old to worry whether they like it Fuck them.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:34 pm 
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I did some reading up. The C-130 system is called MAFFS, for Mobile Airborne Fire Fighting System. The converted airliners are VLATs - Very Large Air Tankers. The chopper with the penis is a modified Sikorsky Skycrane that carries a tank underneath.

There are also a variety of large helicopters that put a bucket into a body of water and then empty it over the fire. I've seen pictures of these on forest fires, but I haven't seen any being used in the current CA firefight.

There's a good Firefighting Aircraft Recognition Guide that has all the fixed and rotary wing aircraft used by CAL FIRE and some other cooperating agencies. Most are derivatives of military aircraft. It's pretty interesting.

https://calfire.ca.gov/communications/d ... ooklet.pdf

Check out the refitted Cobra gunships now used for IR surveillance over fires. I'll have to look for those.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:57 pm 
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I saw one of the old Cobra gunships earlier this summer in the air over our fire. When I looked up I knew I was going to see one due to the sound I was hearing. I had to look for quite a while to see it, it was in the smoke plume.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:50 pm 
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I saw one of the old Cobra gunships earlier this summer in the air over our fire. When I looked up I knew I was going to see one due to the sound I was hearing. I had to look for quite a while to see it, it was in the smoke plume.


Presumably that's why they're using infrared. Yup, no mistaking that one.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:08 pm 
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Damage map of Paradise here. You can zoom way in and see the status of individual structures. Only the large ones show as outlines on the map.

It's quite unsettling.

https://calfire-forestry.maps.arcgis.co ... 7%2C102100

Camp Fire is 125,000 acres - 30% contained. 42 dead, ~280 missing. This surpasses the number of deaths in the Griffith Park fire and so it's now CA's deadliest wildfire.

Woolsey Fire is 96,314 acres - 35% contained. That will probably change in the 11 AM presser (in an hour). Last I heard, the fire had a major flareup near Thousand Oaks, and heavy air tankers were working it.

Lake Sherwood has been bandied about in various tweets. If true, that's outside the perimeter, and an expansion of the fire.

------

Lake Sherwood extension of the Woolsey Fire is expanding fast and sending up a huge smoke plume. Definitely increasing the acreage.

------

New evacuations in the area, but shouldn't affect anyone here.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:42 pm 
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Trump blames California for forest mismanagement for the wildfires. The problem with Trump's comment is the federal government owns nearly 57% of the forests in the state; the state owns 3%; 40% are privately owned, timber companies, and Native American tribes.
NY Times

So California is only responsible for 3% of the forests in the state but it is somehow their fault for fires that occur on 97% of land they don't control? Give me a break.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:46 pm 
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Trump blames California for forest mismanagement for the wildfires. The problem with Trump's comment is the federal government owns nearly 57% of the forests in the state; the state owns 3%; 40% are privately owned, timber companies, and Native American tribes.
NY Times

So California is only responsible for 3% of the forests in the state but it is somehow their fault for fires that occur on 97% of land they don't control? Give me a break.

yes and how does a 'timber' corp get to own so much land.
now they own desert and dirt cuz they fucked it all up.

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Who are these...flag-sucking halfwits fleeced fooled by stupid little rich kids They speak for all that is cruel stupid
They are racists hate mongers I piss down the throats of these Nazis Im too old to worry whether they like it Fuck them.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:20 pm 
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Trump blames California for forest mismanagement for the wildfires. The problem with Trump's comment is the federal government owns nearly 57% of the forests in the state; the state owns 3%; 40% are privately owned, timber companies, and Native American tribes.
NY Times

So California is only responsible for 3% of the forests in the state but it is somehow their fault for fires that occur on 97% of land they don't control? Give me a break.


Rump and most GOP desperately want most of us dead. We wont go away, we wont be deported, so this is what they want.

FACTS are meaningless now, actually meaningless. I even wonder what happens if they indict someone like Jr, does he and the WH simply defy authorities?

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:14 pm 
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About the same time a number of conservatives stopped tweeting, drumpf's tweets regarding the fires became downright sane. It's obvious that someone else is making them. They read like the kind of vague official statements that used to be everything coming from the White House when normal people were president. Someone even sent us T&P. WTF?

Consensus is that it has something to do with Mueller's plan B, but that could be speculation.

------

TV shows a C-130 in USAF livery making retardant drops on the new flareup. They activated the MAFFS.

------

A guy at the presser said the Woolsey Fire burn area is larger than Denver. I got curious and checked whether it was larger than Rhode Island. It's not, but it's close.

Always in the past there'd be a fire here, a fire there. Not one big fire, all at once, in the all the places in north LA/ south Ventura County that usually have these. This is new.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:17 pm 
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what channels do you have live news?

its quite obvious someone else is pushing out his tweets.
he isnt smart enough to write that much.

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They are racists hate mongers I piss down the throats of these Nazis Im too old to worry whether they like it Fuck them.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:33 pm 
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This morning they all went live to choppers over the flareup. It was good footage. Nothing like looking down at a lumbering airliner in full slow flight configuration, coming through thermals and turbulent smoke, dumping hundreds of feet of phoscheck.

Channels 2, 4, and 7 are network o/o's. KTLA (5) at one time innovated most of the ways breaking stories get covered on TV now, and they still do live news. There's also channel 11, which is, pardon the expression, Faux.

On the weekends, though, they can't be bothered. They aren't going to attract lynch mobs by pre-empting sports.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 5:20 pm 
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Not that Agent Orange could be convinced by science if it kicked him in his backside, but ...

From the rabid leftists at Popular Science:

California's forest management isn't the problem
Despite accusations, the state has excellent manage policies—it's just also built to burn.
https://www.popsci.com/forest-managemen ... rnia-fires

As catastrophic fires rage in California, President Trump looked for someone to blame. In a series of tweets posted Saturday and Sunday, Trump faulted "gross mismanagement of the forests" for the wildfires, which have killed at least 31 people. The president also threatened to cut federal funding for firefighting efforts.

Firefighters immediately pointed out errors in Trump's assertions. The Woolsey Fire started not in a forest but on a hillside near Simi Valley before spreading to suburban communities, while the Camp Fire is burning in an area thinned by fire 10 years ago. Forest management didn't cause these blazes and California is considered a leader in Forest management on private lands.

"His comments are reckless and insulting to the fire fighters and people being affected," said Harold Schaitberger, General President of the International Association of Fire Fighters, in a statement responding to Trump's latest tweets.

[snip][end]

BTW, for those paying attention - oh I know we're not supposed to pay attention :roll: - he's also threatening to cut off funds to Puerto Rico due to nonexistent "mismanagement".

Anyway, he continues to blame nonexistent forest mismanagement in California and blaming environmental regulations in the state ... natch (which are not real causes to the problem) ... while refusing to discuss the actual elephant in the room, that climate change hoax the Chinese came up with. :roll:

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 5:27 pm 
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If Obama blamed republican lawmakers in Kansas for a twister, saying they should better manage their wind, and threatened them, the media would talk of NOTHING else and the nation would go into a 24/7 state of emergency because of all the liberals cons would be shooting.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:20 pm 
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Long as we're discussing Malibu beach property, and the nice people who live there, I might as well drop a Google Street View of how Point Dume welcomes the public to the beach that by law is public below mean high tide:

Image

This is one of the best places to surf on the whole west coast. In high school, there were a few snobby rich kids with friends who had secretly given them keys to this gate. They acted like they were the aristocracy. If you kissed enough rich kid butt, maybe they'd let you surf there. Maybe. Now, though, even if you got in, you'd probably be inviting a board sandwich from one of the local enforcers. And they'd have to take you to the hospital by boat.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:52 pm 
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1. Yuk. Camp Fire is getting even nastier. Looking for bones in the ruins.

135,000 acres - 35% contained
48 dead, ~100 missing
7860 structures destroyed, 7600 of them residences
5615 fire personnel


2. Woolsey Fire continues to amaze, or is it frighten

97,620 acres - 47% contained
(This kind of acreage was unheard of in L.A. area fires until the Thomas Fire last year. Now it appears to be the new normal.)
3 dead
483 structures destroyed, 86 damaged


3. Utilities report that both fires had power transmission issues near the places and times of ignition. Not known yet whether these were causes or effects.

4. Continued blocking of PCH complicates delivery of supplies to Malibu/Pt. Dume/Paradise Cove area. One bunch is using a billionaire's yacht which anchors offshore, then locals with rowboats and surfboards get the stuff the rest of the way in. Minimum capacity, but maximum publicity. Many, many photos. Much talk of Dunkirk. They do SO love Fires of the Rich and Famous.

4a. Less seen about the people farther up the hill. Vineyards, horse ranches, and national parks aren't very sexy copy, except when the Nooz can take pictures of the horses in a way that suggests they're quaint.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:04 pm 
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Now there's one in Rialto. https://abc7.com/sierra-fire-wind-drive ... o/4686598/

They're calling it the Sierra fire. I don't know why.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 4:03 pm 
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1. Fire in Rialto is largely contained.

I had to look on the map to see where Rialto is. Damn, that is nowhere, even by San Bernardino County standards. A guy in movie school was from there. No wonder he was so screwed up.


2. Camp Fire body count continues to increase.

Stats are eyebrow raising. At least, I raised mine.

140,000 acres - 40% contained
56 dead at time of last presser, going up fast
8756 residences destroyed

Due to the possibility, so far unproven, that PG&E equipment might have started the fire, the company's stock has tanked big time. The company lost 30% of its market cap yesterday alone. If PG&E is indeed found liable, the liability could exceed the amount of its insurance coverage.

Much has been made of the inadequate evacuation and alerting procedures in Paradise CA. In a previous fire, the whole town was evacuated at once and the little roads out of it all clogged. Then the fire came through slowly. Therefore, this time, they tried to evacuate it in stages, but the fire came through quickly.


3. Woolsey Fire, though not as deadly, continues to amaze

98,362 acres - 57% contained
2 civilians dead
3 firefighters injured

Structure count is all over the place. I've seen all the way from 500 to 900. The media remain far more interested in counting celebrities who were affected.

Lots of stuff flying regarding lack of resources on this fire. It appears that parts of Malibu were left to fend for themselves. Pt. Dume is talking about starting a VFD. (Since all the big macho guys stay behind and try to fight fire with garden hoses, maybe it's a good idea to train and equip them.) Sounds like FIRESCOPE and the other emergency plans need some tweaking. I'd love to be a fly on the wall at THAT debrief.

Traffic in this part of L.A. is completely stalled much of the time, and we're 20 miles from the fire.

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