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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:49 pm 
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In ‘The Feeling of Being Watched,’ a Muslim community watches the watchmen

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If you were living in a small community riven by paranoia and fear of surveillance, pointing a camera at its members and asking them to recount their troubles might not seem the best idea. However, that's what Assia Boundaoui does in her new documentary The Feeling of Being Watched, which plays in a special screening at the Arab American National Museum — and with the filmmaker in attendance — this coming Thursday.

Working off the surprising notion that being recorded even more is exactly what her family's tight-knit Muslim community needs, Boundaoui confirms and confronts the disturbing allegation that the FBI has been watching its members for years — and started well before 9/11.

Reflecting frankly on a mid-'90s childhood marred by the program (known as Operation Vulgar Betrayal), Boundaoui interweaves her own anecdotes and anxieties with those of family, friends, and strangers around Bridgeview, Illinois — which plays host to a thriving, generous Muslim community.

Though tormented by the FBI's door-to-door interrogations, hidden cameras, and false accusations (all leading to dead-ends, all done in the name of fighting domestic terrorism), Boundaoui's neighbors brighten the film's proceedings with their energy, good-humored cynicism, and cohesion as a community. Under such circumstances, that collective sense of solidarity is a considerable, palpable strength — as demonstrated when, shortly after Boundaoui's father's abrupt, early passing, the members of her mother's mosque come together in a span of just hours to help her pay off a new home. (Something of this communal aura of stubborn, activism-oriented concern seems to have inflected Boundaoui's project here.)

All the same, their resolve is tested by the FBI's brazen and often clumsy telemarketer-scale harassment, which proves persistent enough to drive two close friends' fathers out of the United States altogether — rendering single mothers as one of the film's recurring motifs...............


www.youtube.com Video from : www.youtube.com

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:29 pm 
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It's not just Muslims who should be paranoid, though they are a targeted community. It's not just the government only, too, corporations are increasingly putting you under surveillance. In fact, probably more directly, and more often.
http://crackedlabs.org/en/corporate-surveillance

Find your Minority Report.

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Also, it's not just people who are watching you. Jeremy Bentham's automated Panopticon is becoming a reality.

Security robots are being used to ward off San Francisco’s homeless population
https://techcrunch.com/2017/12/13/secur ... opulation/

Image

The British Military Is Launching a Major Test of Unmanned Vehicles and Surveillance Drones
https://gizmodo.com/the-british-militar ... 1830425460

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Smile.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:35 pm 
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www.youtube.com Video from : www.youtube.com


the other trailer

our tax dollars and theirs at work

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:38 pm 
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I feel well watched in the hills. Hardly at all in the city.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:07 am 
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:53 am 
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What bothers me more than being watched is the feeling of being at utter odds with the country we live in. We haven't felt this way since Vietnam. And of course, with maturity (which we didn't have so much of in 1968) comes the realization that it's really not the politicians who are the problem...it's the fucking people.

So I'm watched. We're pretty good at not breaking the law, so they can watch us not breaking the law all they want.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:12 am 
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Again, I reiterate, Right-Libertarians, especially, like to talk about government as Big Brother watching everybody.

But the reality is, blame your eroding privacy on corporations, who increasingly are probably monitoring and watching your actions far more closely. I notice they rarely talk about that.

I understand. You're not doing anything wrong. Until someone thinks you are, and shares it around the web.

Digital Taylorism.

Big Brother isn't just watching: workplace surveillance can track your every move
Employers are using a range of technologies to monitor their staff’s web-browsing patterns, keystrokes, social media posts and even private messaging apps
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... technology

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 5:51 pm 
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Again, I reiterate, Right-Libertarians, especially, like to talk about government as Big Brother watching everybody.

But the reality is, blame your eroding privacy on corporations, who increasingly are probably monitoring and watching your actions far more closely. I notice they rarely talk about that.

I understand. You're not doing anything wrong. Until someone thinks you are, and shares it around the web.

Digital Taylorism.

Big Brother isn't just watching: workplace surveillance can track your every move
Employers are using a range of technologies to monitor their staff’s web-browsing patterns, keystrokes, social media posts and even private messaging apps
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... technology


I remember having a whole bunch of cash to deposit in our checking account one time and I wanted to bust it into two deposits because anything over a certain amount required a notification from the bank to go to the IRS. So I walk up to the teller and I ask her how much I can deposit without this notification going out. And she says to me, "If you don't have anything to hide, you don't have to worry." To which I replied, "With the IRS, just because I have nothing to hide doesn't mean I have nothing to lose. And how's about you just answer the question and keep your advice to yourself."

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 6:20 pm 
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That's exactly why privacy is important, even if you aren't doing anything wrong.

Even if so, some things are not other peoples' business.
And privacy is one of those funny things ... let people take away a little, then they suddenly start grabbing a lot.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:46 pm 
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www.youtube.com Video from : www.youtube.com


the conversation is pretty interesting she talks about the secrecy in which it thrives and how she wanted to bring it into the light also for people to talk about it.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 2:15 am 
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That's exactly why privacy is important, even if you aren't doing anything wrong.

Even if so, some things are not other peoples' business.
And privacy is one of those funny things ... let people take away a little, then they suddenly start grabbing a lot.


another thing she talks about is how it makes people hyper private who are being surveiled and how that drives more aggressive surveillance. they talk about how some people just go in their house and never come out and just die. also the different outcomes based on immigrant status or race how they can be dramatically different.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 2:34 am 
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OK...OK...now I feel it's time to remind ourselves that if it were not for the plethora of surveilance cameras all over the place, the Tsarnaev brothers would certainly be planning their next pressure cooker bombing if they hadn't followed through with one already.

The prospect of these two motherfuckers hanging out at the gym, pounding beers, and enjoying their freedom troubles me deeply.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:46 am 
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So it's interesting. The ACLU has a page on this question. They say they are not against public cameras in "high profile" locations like the US Capitol, but ... well, I'll just leave their arguments here. I do think it's good food for thought and you know I like to feed thinking.

WHAT'S WRONG WITH PUBLIC VIDEO SURVEILLANCE?
https://www.aclu.org/other/whats-wrong- ... rveillance

1. VIDEO SURVEILLANCE HAS NOT BEEN PROVEN EFFECTIVE
2. CCTV IS SUSCEPTIBLE TO ABUSE
3. THE LACK OF LIMITS OR CONTROLS ON CAMERAS USE
4. VIDEO SURVEILLANCE WILL HAVE A CHILLING EFFECT ON PUBLIC LIFE
THE BOTTOM LINE: A LACK OF PROPORTION BETWEEN BENEFITS AND RISKS

Anyway, read their arguments. 4., I think, has to do with what Motor City was just talking about.

I'm not sure if they are arguing for banning such systems, but it seems they want better rules and oversight watching over the watchmen.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:56 am 
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panopticism

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From the Soderbergh movie "Kafka"

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The movie "Eye in the Sky" (about drone warfare and surveillance)

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 9:39 am 
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So it's interesting. The ACLU has a page on this question. They say they are not against public cameras in "high profile" locations like the US Capitol, but ... well, I'll just leave their arguments here. I do think it's good food for thought and you know I like to feed thinking.

WHAT'S WRONG WITH PUBLIC VIDEO SURVEILLANCE?
https://www.aclu.org/other/whats-wrong- ... rveillance

1. VIDEO SURVEILLANCE HAS NOT BEEN PROVEN EFFECTIVE
2. CCTV IS SUSCEPTIBLE TO ABUSE
3. THE LACK OF LIMITS OR CONTROLS ON CAMERAS USE
4. VIDEO SURVEILLANCE WILL HAVE A CHILLING EFFECT ON PUBLIC LIFE
THE BOTTOM LINE: A LACK OF PROPORTION BETWEEN BENEFITS AND RISKS

Anyway, read their arguments. 4., I think, has to do with what Motor City was just talking about.

I'm not sure if they are arguing for banning such systems, but it seems they want better rules and oversight watching over the watchmen.


Better rules and better oversight are certainly things a reasonable person would support in most things involving law enforcement, etc.

Problem is the country doesn't seem to be able to do a very good job these days in it's half-assed attempts to negotiate any better rules and better oversight about much of anything.

And...I will admit that with certain issues I'm one of those pounding away at total banning of certain things... handguns and semi-automatic assault rifles, with or without bump stocks, for instance.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:59 pm 
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Video surveillance causes a false sense of security. Yes, it caught the pressure cooker bomber. So next time the bad guys will wear big hats, ski masks, or whatever works.

It's just another way to make the public feel safe. It's like making people wait 45 minutes to go through metal detectors at the Hollywood Bowl. Doesn't intimidate the bad guys. Presumably, they will just shift their tactics. Meanwhile, you stand in line holding a 15 pound picnic basket. You're not any safer. You're just less likely to go back to the Hollywood Bowl.

All theater.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 2:53 pm 
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Video surveillance causes a false sense of security. Yes, it caught the pressure cooker bomber. So next time the bad guys will wear big hats, ski masks, or whatever works.

It's just another way to make the public feel safe. It's like making people wait 45 minutes to go through metal detectors at the Hollywood Bowl. Doesn't intimidate the bad guys. Presumably, they will just shift their tactics. Meanwhile, you stand in line holding a 15 pound picnic basket. You're not any safer. You're just less likely to go back to the Hollywood Bowl.

All theater.

i agree with this totally!

high sales pitches hawking alexa and all the new shit that listens to every sound in your house, and
what the kids say and do, and theyre too dumb at this time to comprehend being listened to 24/7
in their bedrooms.
now theyve got some picture thing, some live picture thing that alexa's it way to come on
whenever you yell mommy, or some twisted invasive crap like that is hitting the holly daze shopping
shelves. i dont recall what exactly this tube sitting on the table now does with the flat screen, and idc.

all this spooking shit is sales, profits for them while you build your own cages.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:18 pm 
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All theater.


Tell that to Joker Tsarnaev.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 1:56 am 
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It's not just Muslims who should be paranoid, though they are a targeted community. It's not just the government only, too, corporations are increasingly putting you under surveillance. In fact, probably more directly, and more often.
http://crackedlabs.org/en/corporate-surveillance

Find your Minority Report.

Image

Also, it's not just people who are watching you. Jeremy Bentham's automated Panopticon is becoming a reality.

Security robots are being used to ward off San Francisco’s homeless population
https://techcrunch.com/2017/12/13/secur ... opulation/

Image

The British Military Is Launching a Major Test of Unmanned Vehicles and Surveillance Drones
https://gizmodo.com/the-british-militar ... 1830425460

Image

Smile.


I see something you may have overlooked. For all the worries I have which a book numbered 1984 hatched in my head, the thought of the government with stuff like the gear you have shown, is overshadowed by I-phones recording away in the hands of teaming millions of citizens.

The government may record from thousands of cameras, but for more than backtracking from a crime scene they don't have the man power to view much more than that. Those I-phones are recording what a human mind has witnessed and has selected as interesting, and they have a enthusiastic network to spread that video gossip.

I shrug. :|



Have you ever studied epistemology? I have as it applies to Physics, and my daughter currently is in a course. There's a problem with her professor. He appears to be flipping out over the fact that there's no right to certainty of outcome. A pretty odd thing for an epistemology professor to do.

:|

There is no right to certainty of outcome. Since before 1984 to present time we've been guarding the wrong gate. I'm saying we because I used to worry about this issue a lot. It's hopeless, now I just worry about the outcome.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 8:37 am 
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I see something you may have overlooked. For all the worries I have which a book numbered 1984 hatched in my head, the thought of the government with stuff like the gear you have shown, is overshadowed by I-phones recording away in the hands of teaming millions of citizens.


No, there's a reason I mentioned Bentham's Panopticon, because it is a central theme of a philosopher known as Michel Foucault. Some folks called him postmodern, I hope that doesn't drive Zowie crazy, he didn't usually identify that way himself.

Anyway, in his book Discipline & Punish, he sorta emphasized what you're saying. That, in fact, modern states have given up on the Panoptic project because they could never build a watchtower large enough to watch all their citizens. But the point of the Panopticon is the way it works is you never know if you're being watched. Thus, you have to assume you are being watched all the time. Or could be. See, that's how it works - they can get you to behave, because you just can't be sure whether you're being watched or not - not that they have the capacity to watch everybody, but they don't need it ... if you can never know ... I guarantee, Sam, you're absolutely right the gov't will never have enough cameras - but they are darn well getting good at embedding them in places they can't be seen by you (back to the "who watches the watchmen" theme) ...

He also argued that the way the state really becomes efficient is by getting people to watch each other. Now, he mostly focused on what he called "discipline," or forcing your superego to monitor your id, in Freudian terms.... getting you to watch yourself. However, he also talked abut that "see something, say something" stuff. Getting people to report on each other, like often happens in totalitarian states, "I think my neighbor is up to something un-American". Now a million iPhones could also fit into that as well.

Anyway, like I said above, 1984 focuses on a totalitarian Big Brother government. But that's only half the problem. Even when they are not turning it over the the government, AT & T, Facebook, Instagram, "social media," stores you shop at, data-mining corporations, ISPs, all kinds of things are tracking and collecting what we might call your "data trail," and getting a pretty thick picture of what you do, when, who you associate with. Now, most of that data is being collected to be more efficient at targeting ads to you to sell you crap you don't need, to be honest. That doesn't mean they can't sell or trade that data to people with other purposes. Government is probably less a threat to the privacy of most everyday Americans than this corporate dataveillance.

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"Greetings, Agent Anderton. Can we interest you in this new widget, today?"

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Have you ever studied epistemology?


Yes, I even talk about it. :D

It's an even thornier question in the social sciences than the physical.

Quote:
He appears to be flipping out over the fact that there's no right to certainty of outcome.


Image

I love quantum mechanics. The Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle. Schrodinger's Cat.

But in the social sciences, there's a related problem. Photons and electrons react to being observed. But so do people. In fact, like I said above, one interesting way to affect human behavior - Motor City was alluding to it above - is to make you unsure, all the time, whether or not you're being observed.

Quote:
There is no right to certainty of outcome.


Yeah. That is for certain. :mrgreen:

Still, there is a reason that Melancholia is the dominant humour of scholars and academics. We can't know the future, but sometimes we see the outlines. It makes hope a hard thing to maintain. As for me, I try.

Sometimes, we even deal with the problem that our warnings are ignored.

Image

As Foucault warned, the state increasingly relies on us to imprison ourselves. Seems to be working.

So it goes.

"You cannot fight the future, Agent Mulder" ...

"Why? Neo? Why do you resist? Why get up again? .... Because I choose to."

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 12:24 pm 
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There is a term for it: GAFA.

Google, Amazon, Facebook, Apple.

Who guards the gatekeepers?

I suggest "Silicon State" and "World Without Mind".

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bird's theorem-"we the people" are stupid.

"No one is so foolish as to choose war over peace. In peace sons bury their fathers, in war fathers bury their sons." - Herodotus

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 2:09 pm 
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There is a term for it: GAFA.

Google, Amazon, Facebook, Apple.

Who guards the gatekeepers?

I suggest "Silicon State" and "World Without Mind".


Big money people are big money people, regardless of the political/social ideology they pitch to us.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 2:19 pm 
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FB gotta go and what Bezos did with plant in NY pisses me off

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 2:36 pm 
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I don't have to read books on how bad corporate surveillance has gotten. All I have to do is observe what's going on. I see how most people enthusiastically react to the idea that they carry a little communication device that tracks everything from their location and consuming habits to their vital signs. I bring this up, and they say what's the problem? I save $25 a month on my health insurance. What could go wrong?

> QM, etc

It is true, as far as we know, that there is no right to a known outcome. QM blew that out of the water. Chaos theory eliminated whatever was left.

> Po-Mo

What I said was that the mass cultural effect of po-mo had run its course, and I won't miss it. The professor is a highly educated person. He understands po-mo as it should be understood, and how it was intended to be understood by French philosophers and the like.

My degree's in movies.

I didn't get an epistemology.

All I got was a bunch of bad directing, funny colored restaurants with teeny little portions at mega prices, self-consciously weird architecture, and millions of very shallow and rather deluded people who didn't mind everything going into the shitter. I'm glad to see this go. I understand that even philosophy has moved on, but I haven't read enough to know anything about that.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 2:51 pm 
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the gov doesnt have to have the cameras. the very fav bezos guy can supply them and mount them
all for a price, pick a toy!!...and its easier to pay him than do it since he has all these cutesy wootsey ways
of listening and watching people.

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They are racists hate mongers I piss down the throats of these Nazis Im too old to worry whether they like it Fuck them.
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