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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 9:32 am 
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Ohio House Passes Controversial ‘Fetal Heartbeat’ Anti-Abortion Bill
If bill becomes law, it would allow only about 6 weeks to obtain a legal abortion in the state, often before a woman knows she’s pregnant.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/oh ... 0a1f2f3518

The Ohio House of Representatives for the second time has passed a bill outlawing abortion after a fetal heartbeat is detected, which can be as early as six weeks into a pregnancy.

Because of the legislation’s extremely short period for a legal abortion, the measure would bar abortions for women who don’t realize they are pregnant until it’s too late.

“It’s often the case that a woman doesn’t even know she’s pregnant until after six weeks,” said Democratic state Rep. Nickie Antonio. “This is especially true for women who are emotionally traumatized by rape.”

There are no exceptions in the bill for rape or incest. Doctors violating the measure could face felony charges and up to a year in prison.

GOP Rep. Ron Hood, the bill’s primary sponsor, said the measure would stop “babies” from being “slaughtered before they’re even born.” Hood said during floor debate that he hoped the measure would be used to challenge Roe v. Wade.

Both the House and Senate of the Ohio General Assembly passed a similar bill in 2016, but it was vetoed by Republican Gov. John Kasich, who said it would not survive a constitutional challenge.

This bill, which passed the state House on a 59-to-35 vote, is now with the state Senate, which could quickly take action. It’s unclear if the legislature would have the necessary votes to override another Kasich veto. Republican Gov.-elect Mike DeWine, who takes office Jan. 14, has said he would sign such a measure, reported The Columbus Dispatch.

Even supporters of the measure have worried that such a law wouldn’t survive a court challenge. But more are optimistic since President Donald Trump has made two conservative appointments to the Supreme Court, noted the Dispatch.

[snip][end]

They might be optimistic. I know how I feel. :cry:

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:03 am 
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Hope number one...there are moronic bills introduced in state legislatures every day that never go anywhere. As noted this is the second passage of a "fetal heartbeat" bill by the Ohio House, so the first one never went anywhere.

Reading this makes me even more proud of voters in formerly rock solid GOP counties in west suburban Chicago, DuPage and Kane, who increased the Democratic control of both houses of the Illinois state legislature on November 6th. Here in DuPage we had a two-term single issue anti-choice asshole named Peter Breen get his ass handed to him on a plate by a woman lawyer, wife and mother of three daughters named Terra Costa Howard, former DuPage County public defender, curent guardian ad litem attorney, and now Illinois House district 49 Representative in the former land of Henry Hyde. Terra Howard is going places in Illinois politics...we are former colleagues, and I wouldn't want to go up against her in court or in a legislative body. US Congress is next...who knows what then.

Meantime, Ohio is half full of scum who put phony-ass "pro-life" scum like Ron Hood in public office over and over again. Pro-life until you're born, when they become not so pro-life anymore...particularly if you're not white and/or christian.

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Just over half (52 percent) of Iowans surveyed in a Des Moines Register/Medciacom Iowa Poll last month said they believed the law goes too far. But voters in the midterm elections generally chose politicians who supported the law.


Assholes. So at some point in this fucked up country full of assholes, if an American woman wants an abortion she's going to have to go to one of the coasts or to Illinois to obtain one. Why, because the white christian voters will vote for any goddamn Republican, and white christian women voters in those states know that if they want an abortion, they will always be able to find a doctor who will do a D&C without asking any difficult question. Pro-life my ass. Sanctity of all life...my ass.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 9:54 pm 
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It's about control, control of women, control of doctors, control of the population.

Abortion is a contrived controversy that appeals to people's desire to believe they are being good, moral Christians.

The Bible doesn't explicitly discuss abortion, but a few were able to convince many that certain passages might hint that that's the way they're going to interpret it. Prior to the mid-1800s, abortion was common and was widely accepted, including by the church. Then someone decided that there were not enough white babies being born and that the immigrants were going to outpace white folk. So, in order to increase the number of white babies, abortion was made illegal.

Bring us back to more modern times and we see it become a political wedge issue, pitting choice against lack of choice. It's still control of women, but now it has the backing of those "moral Christians".

It's convenient to forget that the majority of "prematurely terminated pregnancies" occurs naturally, or if we'd like to continue in a religious context, occurs due to the will of God.

Remember though, it's Liberals who are the emotional ones.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:18 pm 
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Hope number one...there are moronic bills introduced in state legislatures every day that never go anywhere. As noted this is the second passage of a "fetal heartbeat" bill by the Ohio House, so the first one never went anywhere.

Reading this makes me even more proud of voters in formerly rock solid GOP counties in west suburban Chicago, DuPage and Kane, who increased the Democratic control of both houses of the Illinois state legislature on November 6th. Here in DuPage we had a two-term single issue anti-choice asshole named Peter Breen get his ass handed to him on a plate by a woman lawyer, wife and mother of three daughters named Terra Costa Howard, former DuPage County public defender, curent guardian ad litem attorney, and now Illinois House district 49 Representative in the former land of Henry Hyde. Terra Howard is going places in Illinois politics...we are former colleagues, and I wouldn't want to go up against her in court or in a legislative body. US Congress is next...who knows what then.

Meantime, Ohio is half full of scum who put phony-ass "pro-life" scum like Ron Hood in public office over and over again. Pro-life until you're born, when they become not so pro-life anymore...particularly if you're not white and/or christian.



Assholes. So at some point in this fucked up country full of assholes, if an American woman wants an abortion she's going to have to go to one of the coasts or to Illinois to obtain one. Why, because the white christian voters will vote for any goddamn Republican, and white christian women voters in those states know that if they want an abortion, they will always be able to find a doctor who will do a D&C without asking any difficult question. Pro-life my ass. Sanctity of all life...my ass.


A man from Illinois once said, "The best way to get a bad law repealed is to enforce it strictly."


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 10:14 am 
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It's about control, control of women, control of doctors, control of the population.

Abortion is a contrived controversy that appeals to people's desire to believe they are being good, moral Christians.

The Bible doesn't explicitly discuss abortion, but a few were able to convince many that certain passages might hint that that's the way they're going to interpret it. Prior to the mid-1800s, abortion was common and was widely accepted, including by the church. Then someone decided that there were not enough white babies being born and that the immigrants were going to outpace white folk. So, in order to increase the number of white babies, abortion was made illegal.

Bring us back to more modern times and we see it become a political wedge issue, pitting choice against lack of choice. It's still control of women, but now it has the backing of those "moral Christians".

It's convenient to forget that the majority of "prematurely terminated pregnancies" occurs naturally, or if we'd like to continue in a religious context, occurs due to the will of God.

Remember though, it's Liberals who are the emotional ones.


Yes...to all the above.

And regarding your last comment. Just spread an American flag out on the front lawn, have your dog (or your crazy brother-in-law) take a giant shit on it, and leave it there. And just wait for the hysterical exploding heads reactions.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 10:25 am 
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Just an addendum to the comment. Abortion only became an issue in the 19th century because it was then that techniques of surgical abortion were developed. Prior to that point, there were really only two methods for ending a pregnancy, both of which were relatively risky. a) Take an herbal abortifacient like ergot (basically, something that induces labor early) or b) have someone strike your abdomen, or throw your abdomen at something forcefully, to induce a miscarriage.

The Catholic Church claims they have always taught life began at conception. Absolutely untrue. Thomas Aquinas and medieval theologians taught the soul entered the fetus during "ensoulment" or "quickening" (when you can first feel the movements of the fetus) - this is also close to the viability threshold of Roe v. Wade, and when brainwaves first start to appear. (BTW, the legal definition of death is brain death, or the cessation of brainwaves ... not just the absence of a heartbeat. I'm pointing this out because brainwaves show up much later in the fetus than a fetal heartbeat.)

The reality is, once surgical abortion becomes available, then the Pope releases an encyclical in 1869, which THEN declares their NEWFOUND position that life begins at conception.
https://networks.h-net.org/node/3595/di ... human-life

Before 1869, they held to the ensoulment doctrine of Aquinas. They can say whatever they want, but the new position they adopted in the 19th century was a reaction to changing medical technology. They had not always held that position.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 10:58 am 
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Somebody provide me with an example of any of the major religions that isn't based in ideological convenience.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 11:14 am 
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They all change their doctrines over time, Ike. They deny it. "We have always taught our dogma since time immemorial". But the reality is, their doctrines evolve.

Yes, it's true of all major world religions. Yes, there is a category of people who seem determined to deny this evident reality. We call them fundamentalists. I call them wrong.

The other position, which we can call modernism - I've talked about Islamic Modernism, but there was also Catholic Modernism -- well, it's out there, too.

In Judaism, it took the position of reforming the Jewish faith and bringing it into modern times - I believe we call that Reform Judaism. :D

Modernists generally not only note their religions evolve and change with the times - the reality is, they should, in order to stay relevant.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 11:53 am 
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They all change their doctrines over time, Ike. They deny it. "We have always taught our dogma since time immemorial". But the reality is, their doctrines evolve.

Yes, it's true of all major world religions. Yes, there is a category of people who seem determined to deny this evident reality. We call them fundamentalists. I call them wrong.

The other position, which we can call modernism - I've talked about Islamic Modernism, but there was also Catholic Modernism -- well, it's out there, too.

In Judaism, it took the position of reforming the Jewish faith and bringing it into modern times - I believe we call that Reform Judaism. :D

Modernists generally not only note their religions evolve and change with the times - the reality is, they should, in order to stay relevant.


That they have conveniently changed the dogma on a regular basis and denied it was kind of the point of my post, doc. I concur about fundamentalists, and I believe they are the most flagrant of all.

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