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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:25 pm 
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What would it take for you to support the wall?

My current price is DACA citizenship and a higher minimum wage tied to inflation. I don't think much of this will get built by this President anyway.


How much to support some funding for a wall which I don't think will ever be built other than a spot here and a spot there??? Is the question I would ask myself.

Almost all of the border which doesn't have a river running through it already has fence and those traffic barriers. I'm not very worried that they will build a wall in the middle of a river. Nor am I worried that they will condemn and take the amount of land they would have to take to build it above the flood plane inland from the river.


So if we could trade what in all likelihood will not be built in any meaningful way, with much of the money allocated as likely as not being unlikely to actually be used, by all means trade it for "DACA citizenship."

Citizenship, make sure any deal includes citizenship.

Trump is disorganized, his administration was unable to spend much of what was allocated for his wall last year. The NYTimes said they only spent about 10% of what they could have spent.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:32 pm 
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Trade DACA citizenship, say the people whose citizenship will never be in question. :roll: :problem:. Or so they think.

As much as a guy like glen prattles on about "100 years ago," we are watching exactly how supposed liberals and "progressives" signed on to Emergency Quota Acts, Racial Integrity Acts, and Johnson-Reed Acts, passed 100 years ago.

These are laws and public policies formulated and passed by racist populaces.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:37 pm 
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Trade DACA citizenship, say the people whose citizenship will never be in question. :roll: :problem:. Or so they think.

As much as a guy like glen prattles on about "100 years ago," we are watching exactly how supposed liberals and "progressives" signed on to Emergency Quota Acts, Racial Integrity Acts, and Johnson-Reed Acts, passed 100 years ago.

These are laws and public policies formulated and passed by racist populaces.


Are we not in your eyes a racist populace now?

The colliery to that is what do you expect us to do???

Yeah, coal.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:47 pm 
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Are we not in your eyes a racist populace now?



It would be one thing if it were just simply in my own eyes, wouldn't it.

Of course, you already know of the long history I'm talking about, regardless of my personal opinions on your overwillingness to collude with racist, reactionary laws and public policy. Right?

Quote:
The colliery to that is what do you expect us to do???

Yeah, coal.


I'm guessing you meant to say the "corollary," but I expect you to quit acting perplexed, stop throwing your lot in with the very people who hate you every bit as much as they hate me, and behave as normal human beings with a moral sense of ethics.

You capitulators never seem to get that you, too, are moving targets of these fascists you're carrying water for, just as much as DACA kids are. That ought to be reason numero uno to not sell them out; you're selling yourself out when you do that.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:05 pm 
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Substitute coal mine for collery, the meaning is the same. Why would you think I would want use a physical science legal term like corollary?


I agree with you about the long history. It's very real. And I doubt it will ever be eradicated. My view of where we differ is we're in the water, I say swim in it best we can. i feel like you say don't swim in it. Refuse to swim in it.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:20 pm 
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Substitute coal mine for collery, the meaning is the same.


The meaning is not the same, because you're obfuscating and deflecting.

Quote:
Why would you think I would want use a physical science legal term like corollary?


I agree with you about the long history. It's very real. And I doubt it will ever be eradicated. My view of where we differ is we're in the water, I say swim in it best we can. i feel like you say don't swim in it. Refuse to swim in it.


Eradication of history is an absurd proposition that's not coming from me. As ever, you need better metaphors.

You need better metaphors because for #firsttheycamefor worse-than-kapos such as yourself, this is all metaphorical and a game to you, anyway.

You also seem to belive this is a matter of mere atomized, individualistic, personal approaches to fascist regimes and enviornments. You and your capitulationist friends to white nationalism propose cowtowing to fascist forces as a strategy in order to save your worse-than-kapo pink selves from drinking from the colored fountains.

Good luck with that history, given what Martin Luther King indicated about folks like you.

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Last edited by carmenjonze on Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:35 pm 
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This oddly reminds me of the Deadwood show on HBO, the horrific treatment of Women, Chinese, Black people back in the cowboy days.

The way they talked about and treated other whites who were different in some manner, Irish or whatever, was bad also. But FAR worse for non white. Shows me how we got here in a vivid way.


Every so-called white group has treated the next white group that came after them in the same manner.

Irish -> Italians -> other south/east Europeans -> "hispanics" -> Central Americans and Middle Eastern Arabs and Persians ...and all of these overwhelmingly Christian and Muslim immigrants have historically cast a jaundiced eye at Jews, and vice versa, over the same time period, to the present, to procure a few more social bennies than the others that came before them.

And all of the above are classified as so-called "white," now, at least according to the government.

African Americans and Native Americans just laff at this behavior.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:56 pm 
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carmenjonze wrote:

The meaning is not the same, because you're obfuscating and deflecting.



Eradication of history is an absurd proposition that's not coming from me. As ever, you need better metaphors.

You need better metaphors because for #firsttheycamefor worse-than-kapos such as yourself, this is all metaphorical and a game to you, anyway.

You also seem to belive this is a matter of mere personal approaches. You and your capitulationist friends to white nationalism propose capitulating to fascist forces in order to save yourselves from drinking from the colored fountains. History, and not just our own American history, ought to indicate to you that that's not what happens. Or is it.


I was speaking of eradication of racism not of history.

It sounds like your mere personal approach is to negate the dictionary whenever you like. Other than that dry stuff of physical states of matter I can't see as how anything is made of more than "mere personal approaches." Billions of persons, billions of personal reproaches.

:|

"You and your capitulationist friends to white nationalism propose capitulating to fascist forces in order to save yourselves from drinking from the colored fountains," sounds like something a Stalinist Russian might have said to a Nazi Wolgadeutsche during world war two.

All except for the "colored fountains" part, they would have said "Volga." The implication being drowning the sorry Wolgadeutsche in the Volga.


Last edited by Sam Lefthand on Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:00 pm 
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GoFundMe is refunding all that "build a wall" money.

https://amp.businessinsider.com/gofundm ... ser-2019-1

Now Kolfage is asking the same suckers to donate to his "Build a Wall" corporation.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:03 pm 
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When the Irish Weren't White -- The Root
https://www.theroot.com/when-the-irish- ... 1793358754

The boundaries of whiteness are always evolving. In the 19th century, some thought the Irish were not eligible. They weren't "Aryans" but instead Celts.

A big part of eugenics in the 1920s was the racializing of ethnic difference. The non-"Aryan" Europeans, like the Irish, were often described as physiologically inferior. In fact, the trope of depicting Blacks as beasts was also matched in this era, where the Irish were also so compared.

Image

Only the "Anglo-Teutonics" were fully human; both "Negroes" and "Iberian Celts" were (supposedly) more beastlike and less evolved.

Of course, this same process occurred with Jews, as well. Jews today are considered "white" but people often argued otherwise in the 19th century. They were non-Aryan "Semites" who were genetically/racially inferior to "Aryan" whites. This same antipathy survives into why white nationalists still despise Jews today. Though the usual Bircher trope is that the Jews, as the clever elders of Zion, are merely trying to use the blacks to destroy the white race.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:14 pm 
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I was speaking of eradication of racism not of history.


Pay attention, please. In all the posts you've read of mine, you've never read anything about "eradication of racism."

Quote:
It sounds like your mere personal approach is to negate the dictionary whenever you like. Other than that dry stuff of physical states of matter I can't see as how anything is made of more than "mere personal approaches." Billions of persons, billions of personal reproaches.

:|

"You and your capitulationist friends to white nationalism propose capitulating to fascist forces in order to save yourselves from drinking from the colored fountains," sounds like something a Stalinist Russian might have said to a Nazi Wolgadeutsche during world war two.

All except for the "colored fountains" part, they would have said "Volga." The implication being drowning the sorry Wolgadeutsche in the Volga.


This post barely made any sense. It's a very good example of why people like you can never be trusted.

Your question was what I think "you" whoever you think that is, should do about your social, policital, and public policy choices. You and your capitulationist friends to the forces of American fascism are not victims of Stalinism because you read a criticism on the internet. You guys are always the first to run and tell the people you're trying to impress what you know, since you think you'll be rewarded for it. Sycophants like you are the reason for public policy like the Emergency Immigration Act of 1921 and the Johnson-Reed/immigration quotas Act of 1924. You're the elitist, aspirational, pearl-clutching-class background noise to why #MAGA succeeds.

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Last edited by carmenjonze on Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:06 pm 
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Pay attention, please. In all the posts you've read of mine, you've never read anything about "eradication of racism."



I didn't allude to you having said it. I said "And I doubt it will ever be eradicated."

That means it's what I think, not what you might think.

:|

The part of the post which barely made any sense to you was tong through cheek.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:09 pm 
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I didn't allude to you having said it.


No wall, no wall ever, not even for the dumb fascists you're eager to appease.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:44 pm 
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I would like to see those DACA kids get citizenship. :|

I would also like to see his supporters digesting that fact that if those kids get citizenship that amounts to immigration reform, and not in the way they want. They think the phrase "immigration reform" is vulgar.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:40 am 
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How many have seen the pictures that show anyone can cut their way through the steel slatted wall
with a hand saw?


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:58 am 
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I would like to see those DACA kids get citizenship. :|

I would also like to see his supporters digesting that fact that if those kids get citizenship that amounts to immigration reform, and not in the way they want. They think the phrase "immigration reform" is vulgar.


The people you're trying to please get off on human rights abuses, particularly human rights abuses at the border and against immigrants.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:41 am 
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How many have seen the pictures that show anyone can cut their way through the steel slatted wall
with a hand saw?


Donny claims that's "old" steel, an old prototype. His new stuff will be made out of adamantium, vibranium, or nth metal, or something, and won't rust, can't be cut through, ... etc., etc.

Remember, he said, "believe me," so we should. :D

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:59 am 
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Structural engineer Amy Patrick weighs in on the wall. I believe this is from her on Facebook, but I got it from DU.

Image

Image

I am not an engineer but I believe people working in the field would use the technical term of calling this project a "boondoggle."

Even if (shudder shudder) he is in office until 2024, it couldn't even be finished in his 2nd term. It is an impossibility; they can't even acquire all the land they need to build it, well at least not without unconstitutional use of force. It will cause damage to indigenous tribes, native ecology, animal migrations, etc. so it's not harmless. It will cost way more than Trump said, and it won't work.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:33 pm 
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What would it take for you to support the wall?

My current price is DACA citizenship and a higher minimum wage tied to inflation. I don't think much of this will get built by this President anyway.


I will, under no circumstances ever support a "Wall".

There is no need for a "Wall".

Realistically speaking, Five Billion Dollars ($5,000,000,000.00) will only fund less than 300-Miles. The cost of a "Wall" across the approximately 2,000-Mile U.S. Southern Border is anywhere between Fifteen Billion Dollars ($15,000,000,000) and Fifty Billion Dollars ($50,000,000,000.00) not including cost overruns and contract costs.

The issue of "Eminent Domain" remains unaddressed. The Government would have to build portions of a "Wall" on private land. Not all landowners would be amenable to having the U.S. Government taking their land to build a "Wall" and costs for reimbursement for the use of Private Land(s) have yet to factored into the overall cost of the construction of such a "Wall"

Such money, as it stands now is not available. 45 knows this. He is once again engaging in his favorite pass time of lying to his base for sake of political support.

Nor can the Orange Shit Gibbon simply take money from Disaster Relief to fund a "Wall". Under the U.S. Constitution the Congress controls the purse strings, NOT THE WHITE HOUSE.

The "4,000 Terrorists" caught along the U.S./Mexico Border is an outright lie. The actual number caught is closer to Six (06). The "Terrorists" and "Suspected Terrorists" that have been captured, came through U.S. Airports and U.S. Ports of Call.

Such claims are outrageous and grossly distorted for no other reason to inflame 45's racist base.

If such money was available, it would be better used to fund Universal Health Care and Free College for All.

There is no "Invasion", happening along the U.S./Mexico Border. Only the hysterical raving of Narcissist desperate to deflect attention away from Special Prosecutor's Investigation into Russian Interference in the U.S. Presidential Election.

Not.

One.

Bloody.

Dollar.

None.

No.

Money.

For.

A.

"Wall".

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Last edited by marindem on Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:36 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:40 pm 
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In the sense of having the math, theory, and have worked and developed a life's experience as an engineer, I am an engineer. I've been pointing out things like Howdy has brought up.

I've focused on the structure of it, Howdy more on the substrate and logistics. Both are valid, and with both still incomplete. It would take ten of us a week to make a fair outline of the catalog of issued to be overcome. Free standing walls are darned near the hardest things in the world to build to last. It's almost like they're some bit of skin hanging loose around a fingernail. Everything which comes in contact will pick at it.

Wind, rain, heat, cold, and people pinching their forefinger and thumb such that the nails close like pliers, the list is incomplete, will all pick at a wall until if falls down.

I wouldn't use a ladder with a saddle welded to it. I would use a common bottle jack. They can be operated horizontally. Place one horizontally between the steel slats and operate it. Wouldn't be long and I would have made a nice me sized hole at ground level which would serve me well, and serve anyone else who came along later.

It's really hard to figure out how to make a wall which will stand up to the forces of nature, one's which will last. However it's extremely easy to figure out how to make lasting holes in walls which will not last.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:41 pm 
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illegal aliens


No Human is an "Illegal Alien" and the last time I checked no Martians had invaded our planet.

Nor is it against U.S./International Law for foreign nationals to seek asylum in the U.S. There is no crime in seeking asylum.

It is however a violation of International Law to take Children away from their parents by force of arms and lock them Concentration Camps.

Which glen has no problem with.

At least two such Children have died while in ICE Custody, and glen has said nothing.

glen had earlier asked for specific proof of his "Racism". His use of the racist dog whistle term, "Illegal Aliens" is all the proof we need.

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Last edited by marindem on Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:38 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:47 pm 
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"Howdy" is Amy Patrick. :mrgreen: I found her and her credentials. (The original DU post didn't identify them, precisely.)

A forensic engineer explains why Trump would be dead before the border wall was completed
https://qz.com/1521310/a-forensic-engin ... e-of-time/

The latest to weigh in is Amy Patrick, a Houston-based structural engineer whose assessment on the wisdom of erecting the barrier proposed by Donald Trump has gone viral since she posted it on Facebook on Jan. 8.

It lays out in detail why, in her view, the wall is “a monumental waste of time.” It’s been shared more than 65,000 times.

[snip]

Trump has staked significant political capital on getting the wall built, but in her Facebook post, Patrick estimates the project wouldn’t be finished during his lifetime. (She wasn’t immediately available to comment for this story.)

The engineer, who works at building consulting firm Apollo BBC and teaches at University of Houston, notes the project would run up against a variety of problems, including landowner challenges, potential ecological damage, and higher flash-flooding risks.

Initial estimates by nonpartisan consultants put the wall’s cost at $15 billion. Based on Patrick’s experience—her job involves sorting out structural issues in engineering projects—she believes the final bill would end up being closer to $50 billion.

That’s because constant maintenance requirements and unexpected glitches would obliterate original cost estimates. The US Government Accountability Office agrees that the project is off-track and would end up grossly over budget.

[snip]

Patrick’s overall appraisal is unequivocal: “Structurally and civil-engineering wise, the wall is not a feasible project.”

[snip][end]

Again, this is aside from its political and moral realities, and its environmental and indigenous impacts.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:03 pm 
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Wow, looks like Rev. Dr. Barber has been reading my posts.

Image



http://deanofradio.com/

this is the first radio person I heard say the wall was basically a testament to white supremacy

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:42 pm 
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double post, deleted by Z

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Last edited by ZoWie on Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:49 pm 
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It's a STOOPID psychological symbol. It won't keep anybody out. They'll just owe more money to smugglers when they get here, guaranteeing more organized crime.

> feasibility

It can be done. We went to the moon. The engineering challenges could be worked out, and the land could be eminent domained, and the military could evict the people who wouldn't go, and the floods could be worked by FEMA, and 30 years plus $50-75 billion later, we'd have The Wall. And it wouldn't keep anybody out.

> what would it take for you to support The Wall?

That's going to be a tough sell. For pigs to fly? Naww, that wouldn't do it. For an asteroid to hit the Earth? Naww, then the problem's solved anyway. No people, no migrants. End of issue. For it to actually work? Work at what, making 150 or so actually mean-ass terrorist people have to find another way in? Not likely.

> I give on DACA and minimum wages, you give on The Wall.

You give on Citizens United, corporate personhood, complete elimination of all biases in all government hiring and funding, 100% voter registration automatically at age 18, all election districts drawn up by population using open source software, all voting using hand-marked paper ballots counted with observers from both major parties present, no more Electoral College AT ALL, mandatory disclosure of all financial records as part of registering to run for Federal office, Medicare for All, strict regulation of Big Pharma, nationalization of power utilities, required budget set-aside for infrastructure maintenance, a 30-day limit on all military actions not authorized by formal Congressional declaration of war, and a mandatory 40-year phase out of all fossil fuels.

After that, I'll consider giving on The Wall. Even then, it's a squeaker.

-------

I am told to respect the dignity of the office of the presidency. For that to happen, we would need a legitimate president.

Even then:

FDR told us we'd all pull together and end the depression while defeating the Axis and Japan.

JFK said we're not afraid to go to the moon just because it's hard, and in fact we're going BECAUSE it's hard.

Your boy Ray Gun read inspiring lines about shining cities on the hill, making an example for the rest of the world to admire, etc etc.

Obama gave a couple of deeply inspiring speeches about racism.

Your boy drumpf says he'll build a wall along the border, the whole border, and not a fence, a real wall, a very nice wall, a wall the world will admire, and Mexico will pay for it. That's when he isn't laundering money, getting his buddies in the media to spike stories, countersuing contractors he stiffed, taking policy orders from a hostile foreign power, and consorting with gangsters.

Somehow I think dignity of the office is not an issue here.

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