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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 8:00 am 
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BTW the 2017 "tax reform" already increased the exemption for the tax, and lowered the number of people who will pay it.

Top GOP senators propose repealing estate tax, which is expected to be paid by fewer than 2,000 Americans a year
https://www.sltrib.com/news/nation-worl ... s-propose/

Washington • Three Republican senators introduced a plan Monday to repeal the federal estate tax, moving to eliminate a tax on a small number of the wealthiest households just as leading Democrats ramp up calls to tax the richest Americans.

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., joined Sens. Chuck Grassley, R-Iowa, and John Thune, R-S.D., members of the Senate Finance Committee, in releasing legislation to permanently repeal the federal estate tax, which conservatives refer to as "the death tax."

The Republican tax law passed in 2017 already dramatically weakened the estate tax, allowing couples with $22 million to pass on their estates without facing the tax.

In 2018, following the GOP tax law, only 5,000 taxpayers were expected to file estate tax returns, according to projections by the American College of Trust and Estate Counsel, an organization of estate attorneys, based on Internal Revenue Service data. About 1,700 families are expected to actually pay the tax annually, said Howard Gleckman, a tax expert with the Tax Policy Center, a nonpartisan think tank.

[snip]

Before the 2017 GOP tax law, an individual could pass on up to $5.45 million without paying the estate tax, which would then take a cut of up to 40 percent from wealth above that threshold. The law doubled that minimum, exempting all estates worth less than $11.2 million. Couples filing jointly can now pass on more than $22.4 million before the tax sets in.

[snip][end]

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:10 am 
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And the whine of "Taxes were already paid on that money" was heard across the land.

My old man was a moderately successful entrepreneur and business owner although toward the end of his life (at a relatively young age) a bad investment after he sold his company reduced what he left to our mother by quite a bit. Anyway...he believed every penny of his net worth should be subject to inheritance taxes. "Why should anybody have anything they haven't earned themself." is what we heard all the time.

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Last edited by Ike Bana on Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:16 am 
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Most wealthy people plan for estate taxes. They have lawyers and accountants who specialize in estate planning to mitigate the effect of estate taxes so I am one conservative who isn’t all that concerned about estate taxation as long as it is reasonable.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:47 am 
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Most wealthy people plan for estate taxes. They have lawyers and accountants who specialize in estate planning to mitigate the effect of estate taxes so I am one conservative who isn’t all that concerned about estate taxation as long as it is reasonable.


Unless one knows whatever TF you might mean by "wealthy" and "reasonable" this post doesn't say much. Many of us believe that taxing yearly income over $400,000 at 70% is fairly "reasonable." Many of us believe that if you don't need your social security money to keep from being malnourished in retirement you're fairly "wealthy." I am one progressive who isn't all that concerned about anybody's tax bill who's income exceeds $400,000/yr or who doesn't need their social security to have a worry free retirement.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 11:01 am 
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Opinions on the definition of “wealth” and on what is or is not reasonable as far as taxation is concerned vary widely across the political spectrum. Been that way since I studied tax in college 30 years ago. My point is that I have no issue with taxing the transfer of property between family members at death. I don’t have a problem with exemptions for estates under a certain amount. It is consistent with other areas of taxation in my opinion. We are accustomed to taxing such transfers/transactions.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 11:44 am 
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Opinions on the definition of “wealth” and on what is or is not reasonable as far as taxation is concerned vary widely across the political spectrum. Been that way since I studied tax in college 30 years ago. My point is that I have no issue with taxing the transfer of property between family members at death. I don’t have a problem with exemptions for estates under a certain amount. It is consistent with other areas of taxation in my opinion. We are accustomed to taxing such transfers/transactions.


Congratulations! You have won "Ike's Using The Most Words While Saying Nothing Post of the Month" award.

So...apparently according to you, "I have no issue with taxing the transfer of property between family members at death.", is saying the same thing as "I am one conservative who isn’t all that concerned about estate taxation as long as it is reasonable."

Well...it ain't saying the same thing to me.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 12:07 pm 
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Congratulations! You have won "Ike's Using The Most Words While Saying Nothing Post of the Month" award.

So...apparently according to you, "I have no issue with taxing the transfer of property between family members at death.", is saying the same thing as "I am one conservative who isn’t all that concerned about estate taxation as long as it is reasonable."

Well...it ain't saying the same thing to me.


Okay.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 12:42 pm 
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This "death tax" lie has got to go. If it were such a tax, every dying person would pay it. (Since that's impossible, their legal heirs or representatives, of course.)

95% of people in America will never pay it (or their estate/heirs, to be technical). In fact, with the recent increase on the exemption, it's even fewer.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 12:57 pm 
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The name has never really been an issue for me. Most professionals refer to it as the estate tax. Most people have no idea what it is no matter what you call it.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 1:01 pm 
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Oh, I'm not saying it's an issue for you, but it is a name certain politicians (precisely identified above) use to deceive the public.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 1:05 pm 
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Oh, I'm not saying it's an issue for you, but it is a name certain politicians (precisely identified above) use to deceive the public.

I’m not sure I understand what is deceptive about it. It is triggered by an event. Death. The estate is created at death. Prior to that it doesn’t exist.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 1:08 pm 
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A death tax would tax everybody who dies.

I believe they're trying to fool people into believing that.

Now, I understand, calling it by its actual name "estate tax" can be confusing as some people might think everybody inheriting an estate, even if it's just their pop's stamp collection, has to pay it.

They don't.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 1:15 pm 
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A death tax would tax everybody who dies.

I believe they're trying to fool people into believing that.

Now, I understand, calling it by its actual name "estate tax" can be confusing as some people might think everybody inheriting an estate, even if it's just their pop's stamp collection, has to pay it.

They don't.

An income tax would tax everybody who has income but that clearly doesn’t happen either as not all income is taxable and there are exceptions for certain groups of people. The estate tax is no different. All estates are subject to it but many as you point out are not taxed because they are below the threshold.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 1:19 pm 
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Change the word "many" to "almost all" and we agree. A semantic quibble, but I do that.

Almost everybody doesn't have to pay the estate tax.

[from Wiki, re 2017 changes]
As a result, only approximately 2,000 people (or 0.0006% of the population) in the US are currently liable for estate tax.

McConnell & co. are trying to end tax liability for WAY under 1% of the population. People who definitely don't need to be comforted, they're already quite comfortable.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 1:56 pm 
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The Estate Tax (or "Death Tax as the cons term it) exemptions for 2019 are:

Individual: $11.4 million
Married: $22.8 million

The exemptions of $11.4 million and $22.8 million means any amount above these exemptions is subject to an estate tax. In other words, any amount left to heir9s) under these exemption amount isn't subject to the estate tax.

Even at these amount, around 98% of us or our heir(s) will never pay an estate tax.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 2:33 pm 
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so this is how a dem voter is now described??
yet a 'far right conservative regressive republican' gets by with just his name.

this label shit is so insidious, it just rolls out of mouths from those who'd rather return to
the roaring 40's 50's when they freely and rapaciously raped pillaged destroyed everything thru neglect and greed, and tried to blame dems for it all.

these people, the 'far right conservative regressive candidates on the republican side' have to be challenged for maligning those who are not Cons.

Quote:
CBS This Morning✔@CBSThisMorning
· Jan 29, 2019 Replying to @CBSThisMorning

“I think Republicans are looking for a home. If Republicans have a choice between a far left liberal progressive candidate on the Democratic side or President Trump, President Trump is going to get reelected.” -- @HowardSchultz on 2020


we must all pay attention to those with websites who post things on them, cuz, its all true!!
AND..here is the list...THE LIST...of the 'most left wing' of merica. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
https://www.ranker.com/list/the-most-le ... chrisjones


they could have simply called them "liberals" but no instead the need to add more adjectives
to make further impressions implications and insinuations, the need for that demeaning High,
is ever present.
communism is sppsdly dead gone over however from the looks of Our last election cycle it is
roaring back with gusto now using low paid bots.

people who do this IMHO are only adding to the ongoing issues of today, separation and self gratification over everything else.
as well..it lines up with the whole net bot messages suddenly leading humans around like slaves.

why is using the word "liberal" insufficient to describe the opposite of "conservative"?
why the latest need for the added adjectives?...why the need to make democrats or liberals
sound "far"?
the people on "the list" are surely scary "lefties"...funny, theyre all on tv too.
none seem to come from the 'hood' or the school, college, corp, or any other line of work.

i guess im now sppsd to "buy" that tv is bad and CEO corps wallst are good.
:rw) :rw) :rw) :rw) :rw) :rw) :rw)


have more brown water java you POS. here, draw your own name on it.

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Who are these...flag-sucking halfwits fleeced fooled by stupid little rich kids They speak for all that is cruel stupid
They are racists hate mongers I piss down the throats of these Nazis Im too old to worry whether they like it Fuck them.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 3:16 pm 
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I’m not sure I understand what is deceptive about it.


Of course you say you don't understand. The term "death tax" is almost exclusively used by conservatives and Republicans who, no matter how much money they have, never have enough money. You understand fine...it just an inconvenient understanding for somebody attempting to maintain the fucked up ideology you've invested in.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 3:24 pm 
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Of course you say you don't understand. The term "death tax" is almost exclusively used by conservatives and Republicans who, no matter how much money they have, never have enough money. You understand fine...it just an inconvenient understanding for somebody attempting to maintain the fucked up ideology you've invested in.

The con is worried, literally, that the Koch Bros will have to pay too much tax.

There is NO other explanation.

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"Corporate Democrat" phrase created at the same place "Angry Mob" was...People keep falling for rightwing talking points. How sad.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 3:37 pm 
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Gou had the best idea on the death tax (which it is) that I have heard in quite a while.

Basically eliminate the tax altogether then tax the gain as income. Sounds fair to me.

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"within weeks of being rid of the likes of you, rid of every fucking one of you,we would begin to see what kind of country this ought to be" Ike Bana 6/14/18


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 4:00 pm 
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The con is worried, literally, that the Koch Bros will have to pay too much tax.

There is NO other explanation.

yes, there is.
they dont want to pay money to fix roads you drive on. the rich dont use them.

if they dont drive on them fuck the roads, they dont care if the country needs the road
improvements. they are fucking communist.
socialism for the rich and capitalism for the people.

the rich keep the socialism the people pay for.

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Who are these...flag-sucking halfwits fleeced fooled by stupid little rich kids They speak for all that is cruel stupid
They are racists hate mongers I piss down the throats of these Nazis Im too old to worry whether they like it Fuck them.
HST.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 4:08 pm 
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The Estate Tax (or "Death Tax as the cons term it) exemptions for 2019 are:

Individual: $11.4 million
Married: $22.8 million

The exemptions of $11.4 million and $22.8 million means any amount above these exemptions is subject to an estate tax. In other words, any amount left to heir9s) under these exemption amount isn't subject to the estate tax.

Even at these amount, around 98% of us or our heir(s) will never pay an estate tax.

You are correct. Most people are not affected by the estate tax. Further , many high net worth individuals are not and will not be affected to a significant degree by the estate tax. People with large balance sheets more often than not plan well ahead for their death and mitigate the effect the estate tax will have on their estate and on their heirs. This has been true for decades. So why the subject keeps getting raised by Republicans is puzzling to me other than it makes for a good talking point among some folks.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 4:52 pm 
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There is no death tax. There are no death panels. Somewhere in the Republican playbook is the recommendation that when you're reframing everything into your jargon, "death" before anything is a sure hit.

A lot of people put everything in trust. This shifts it to a different taxation system.

Repeal of the estate tax would probably benefit far fewer than 2000 people. It's red meat for the base.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 5:04 pm 
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There is no death tax. There are no death panels. Somewhere in the Republican playbook is the recommendation that when you're reframing everything into your jargon, "death" before anything is a sure hit.

A lot of people put everything in trust. This shifts it to a different taxation system.

Repeal of the estate tax would probably benefit far fewer than 2000 people. It's red meat for the base.

Call it what you want. In the end you are correct that most people are unaffected and few understand or care about the estate tax.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 5:41 pm 
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You are correct. Most people are not affected by the estate tax. Further , many high net worth individuals are not and will not be affected to a significant degree by the estate tax. People with large balance sheets more often than not plan well ahead for their death and mitigate the effect the estate tax will have on their estate and on their heirs. This has been true for decades. So why the subject keeps getting raised by Republicans is puzzling to me other than it makes for a good talking point among some folks.

You asked why the republicans keep raising it?

Americans are told everyone can grow up to be President, become successful in business, become millionaires, and a whole host of other "myths" when in fact very few achieve those dreams. Individually, each of us has the opportunity to do better than out parents and grandparents but that's just about it. So when republicans rebrand the estate tax as a "death tax" they play upon people's belief that they are going to be millionaires someday and the "death tax" is going to bankrupt Mom n' Pop stores, be the death of family farms, and send middle-class families to the Poor House. This plays at the basic emotional and security levels of people who don't question or challenge the "death tax" explanation republicans are selling. It's not that these people are stupid or ignorant but they are easily swayed by an emotional appeal to their "gut" instincts rather than their intellect. republicans learned long ago by redefining the meaning of words and phrases and attaching them to people's emotional and "gut" instincts and repeating the message they can convince people to vote against their own interests.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 5:56 pm 
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You asked why the republicans keep raising it?

Americans are told everyone can grow up to be President, become successful in business, become millionaires, and a whole host of other "myths" when in fact very few achieve those dreams. Individually, each of us has the opportunity to do better than out parents and grandparents but that's just about it. So when republicans rebrand the estate tax as a "death tax" they play upon people's belief that they are going to be millionaires someday and the "death tax" is going to bankrupt Mom n' Pop stores, be the death of family farms, and send middle-class families to the Poor House. This plays at the basic emotional and security levels of people who don't question or challenge the "death tax" explanation republicans are selling. It's not that these people are stupid or ignorant but they are easily swayed by an emotional appeal to their "gut" instincts rather than their intellect. republicans learned long ago by redefining the meaning of words and phrases and attaching them to people's emotional and "gut" instincts and repeating the message they can convince people to vote against their own interests.

I get that it is a talking point used by Democrats and Republicans. But the reality is that it does not affect all that many people and the people who are affected most often mitigate the impact through proper legal estate planning. Very few mega wealthy individuals leave large chunks of their estate to the US government through estate taxation.


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