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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:31 am 
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Quit trying to make this about Bill Clinton


That's so cute. Quit proving you're such a scum sucking misogynist pig and troll.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 11:43 am 
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On one hand you are no hypocrite on the other hand you are 100pct wrong. Dumbass things done as a child should not follow you into adulthood. With certain exceptions of course.



He wasn't a child. He was a full grown man in medical school. It was 1984, not 1884. He was posing in blackface next to a guy wearing a KKK outfit.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 3:23 pm 
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And here I thought you were opposed to whataboutery


The Party of Lincoln waves the Confederate flag.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 3:27 pm 
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But still it was 35 years ago and we have had lawmakers who did much worse.


Virginia still has a state holiday for Robert E. Lee.

Your Confederate Flagwaving Party president does much worse, in its vindictive public policies and laws.

So does your Senate Majority Leader.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 3:29 pm 
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We're in a culture war, 6. When the enemy starts demanding the same from their racists, their sexual assult perps and their pedophiles instead of attempting to elect them to a US Senate seat in Alabama and succeeding in electing them President...I will be right there demanding the resignations of Northam and Al Franken. But not now. Holding the moral high ground gets you nowhere when the enemy has no interest in doing anything but grinding you under their boot. Decend people in Italy in the 1920's and decent people in Germany in the 1930's tried to maintain the moral high ground above all else...and we all know what happened to them.

When Trump Kavanaugh, and every other participant in the criminal enterprise that the Republican Party has become decide to resign, is when you will hear me demanding than Northam resigns.

In a "cultural war" you need more than just yelling, name calling, and pointing fingers at others to convince voters to support your candidates. You need to establish values to live up to and hold yourself and everyone else to those standards and not just when it's politically convenient. That means if someone you support violates those values you're willing to call them out for the same treatment as those you oppose. This behavior of establishing values and holding all to them is in itself a value. It is the consistency in the application of these values which real leaders builds trust. What you're advocating with your "cultural war" mantra is inconsistency and hypocrisy both of which are negative values.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 3:43 pm 
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In a "cultural war" you need more than just yelling, name calling, and pointing fingers at others to convince voters to support your candidates. You need to establish values to live up to and hold yourself and everyone else to those standards and not just when it's politically convenient. That means if someone you support violates those values you're willing to call them out for the same treatment as those you oppose. This behavior of establishing values and holding all to them is in itself a value. It is the consistency in the application of these values which real leaders builds trust. What you're advocating with your "cultural war" mantra is inconsistency and hypocrisy both of which are negative values.


Conservative whites trying to play the "but Democrats..." game are going to lose that fight. The reason being, dressing up in Klan and blackface is conservative white behavior. TBH, Northam can resign or not, imo, because I am much more interested in what Virginia has done in the past 35 years that has undergirded the actual white supremacy behind Klan and blackface.

That's what nobody seems to want to address.

This is also a pattern in American history, and an underlying issue behind doing things like taking down Confederate monuments. Taking down the monuments is a first step. Northam resigning is a first step. What is anybody doing to reverse the continued practice of white supremacist ideology in American law and public policy?

And the other side of it is that you have conservative whites like glen who are very eager to downplay this guy showing up in a medical school yearbook in a blackface/kkk scene as yet another infamous "youthful indiscretion" of conservative white males -- conservative whites and their many enablers simply do not see blackface/kkk cosplay as racist behavior.

White conservative reality is on a collision course with itself. It will not be the first time, either.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 3:46 pm 
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On one hand you are no hypocrite on the other hand you are 100pct wrong. Dumbass things done as a child should not follow you into adulthood. With certain exceptions of course.

Northham was not a child when this happened; he was 25 years old. At 25 years of age he was eligible to drink, join the military (which he did), vote, able to get credit, and enter into a contract by himself. He wasn't some dumb-ass who knew no better; he was an educated man with a degree in biology and obtaining his medical doctorate. In addition, he was elected by the cadets to serve on the VMI Honor Court hearing cases concerning cadets violating the VMI Honor Code. This position calls for maturity and good judgement qualities both of which he failed to uphold with that picture.

No, this isn't a childhood mistake. As he was born in 1959 and lived through the Civil Rights Era and the busing issues during the 70s he should have known the use of black-face was wrong.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 3:53 pm 
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Northham was not a child when this happened; he was 25 years old. At 25 years of age he was eligible to drink, join the military (which he did), vote, able to get credit, and enter into a contract by himself. He wasn't some dumb-ass who knew no better; he was an educated man with a degree in biology and obtaining his medical doctorate. In addition, he was elected by the cadets to serve on the VMI Honor Court hearing cases concerning cadets violating the VMI Honor Code. This position calls for maturity and good judgement qualities both of which he failed to uphold with that picture.

No, this isn't a childhood mistake. As he was born in 1959 and lived through the Civil Rights Era and the busing issues during the 70s he should have known the use of black-face was wrong.


Conservative whites will always hurry to defend, downplay, and tacitly support white-American racist, rapist behavior. We can predict the responses of people like glen, like clockwork.

Even as they try to play the "but Democrats..." card.

What conservative whites are afraid to address is the continued, pernicious state-sponsored promotion of Confederacy, like Virginia's state Robert E. Lee holiday. And much more importantly, their laws and public policies continue to uphold the same white supremacy represented by their KKK/blackface dressup traditions. Anybody in doubt can only look at glen's nervous silence around the atrocities his party is currently inflicting on little kids and families seeking to immigrate here.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 7:02 pm 
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White conservative pathological culture.

I keep trying to say to people what the cesspool social climate of the country was in the Reagan/Bush/Thatcher/Botha era, aka the post-Civil Rights era, when this yearbook was published.

It says a lot about Norrham, yes, and it says plenty more about Virginia, Eastern Virginia Med School, Eastern Virginia Med School yearbook staff, the larger pervasive cancer of white conservative culture that fosters and rewards this kind of behavior in 25 year old white males of any political persuasion, and why in the world this is just now news.


:problem:

There was more than 1 photo of men in blackface in the 1984 EVMS yearbook - Virginian-Pilot

Quote:
As Gov. Ralph Northam retreats from an earlier admission that he was one of two men in a 1984 medical school yearbook photo dressed in either blackface or a Klu Klux Klan costume, many have wondered how the racist photo could have even been published.

Eastern Virginia Medical School President Dr. Richard V. Homan said Saturday he doesn't know either.

"I can find no explanation for how such a picture was able to be published in the past," Homan said in a statement posted to the medical school's website Saturday.


Well that's interesting, because I can.

Quote:
A page in the 1984 yearbook listing staff thanks individuals who either contributed photos or helped in the production, including the EVMA Public Affairs Office and a doctor who "got us over the hill." On Friday, EVMS spokesman Vincent Rhodes had said he wasn't sure if any faculty or staff oversaw the publication.

Interviews with EVMS alumni indicate that students were each given a half page and submitted their own photos to be published on those pages.

Dr. Kathleen Lovie, who graduated in 1985 and practices medicine in Alabama, wasn't on the yearbook staff but recalled it being mainly student run.

She said she remembered looking at her photo arrangement before it was published but didn't know if that was common practice. She happened to be friends with two people on the yearbook staff.

“No one questioned me about my pictures,” she said, including one she thought might have been questionable because it pictured her belly dancing.

There's at least one other photo in Northam's 1984 yearbook of a man in blackface, dressed as a woman with the caption: "who ever thought Diana Ross would make it to Medical School!"


White conservatism is a cancer on this country.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 7:20 pm 
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Huh. Well, somebody at WP has been reading my posts.

The troubling history behind Ralph Northam’s blackface Klan photo: How blackface shaped Virginia politics and culture for more than a century

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A viral photo of Virginia Gov. Ralph Northam (D) overshadowed the first day of Black History Month. As an expert in the history of amateur blackface minstrelsy, I was not surprised to see that a young Northam had a blackface Klansman photograph included in his 1984 Eastern Virginia Medical School yearbook.

I spent a decade poring over blackface composites from yearbooks and fraternal orders, watching cracked film footage and cataloguing more than 10,000 blackface plays at Harvard University. Those plays and Northam’s racist photo show us the centrality of amateur blackface minstrelsy to American cultural life and universities. They show how upwardly mobile white men concentrated white-supremacist political power in the century after the Civil War, using the profits of amateur blackface to build white-only institutions and using blackface performances to articulate to voters their legislative commitment to white supremacy.

They also show how persistent those power structures remain.

Though blackface was the No. 1 entertainment form throughout the United States in the 19th century, it has a particularly notable legacy in Virginia. The first globally famous minstrel troupe hailing from New York City rebranded itself as the Virginia Minstrels in 1843. Dan Emmett, the group’s founder, understood his minstrel troupe needed to project a sense of authentic, stereotypical blackness. Virginia, a state that imported enslaved Africans as a colony as early as 1619, embodied the complex relationship between blackface entertainment, slavery and American culture in a single word. The troupe did not just borrow Virginia’s brand, but shaped it: Its song “Dixie” became the unofficial Confederate anthem.

That legacy can be seen in the history of blackface at the University of Virginia, founded and designed by another Virginia governor: Thomas Jefferson. Virginia was a state built on enslaved labor, and U-Va. was no different. Beginning in 1830, the university would “hire out” enslaved people from the surrounding area. Eventually, U-Va. purchased humans like “Big Lewis” Commodore in 1832 at auction for $580, permanently separating him from his family.

Virginia’s slave empire ended when African American slaves fought for their freedom in the Civil War. After 1865, Lewis Commodore was free. But when slavery disappeared, fundraising with amateur blackface minstrel shows and city minstrel parades emerged. They featured fictionalized blackface slaves and their Klansman counterparts — a pairing on display in the Northam photo — to sustain Virginia’s infrastructure and segregated economy, as well as to inculcate new generations into a form of white supremacy associated with collegiality, school spirit and patriotism.

...

U-Va.’s love affair with — and financial reliance on — amateur blackface grew during Reconstruction. A rumor circulated throughout U-Va. that “some of the students are forming themselves into a negro minstrel troupe” to perform on campus and in the local towns in Virginia. In 1886, the official University Minstrel Troupe donated the proceeds of its minstrel show to the construction of the University of Virginia Chapel, where hundreds of couples continue to marry each year. The show, which included a “stump speech” — a stand-up comedy routine lampooning black politicians — also featured a “Berlesque of Mikado,” likely in yellowface.

Throughout the First Klan era, the U-Va. minstrel troupe “sweetly” sang in “darky dialect” to raise funds. During World War I, a university-sponsored minstrel show took place on the white steps of the Rotunda, where Lewis Commodore used to be enslaved. Scores of U-Va. yearbooks named “Cork and Curls” (minstrel slang for the burned cork used to blacken faces and the curly Afro wigs that were signature costume pieces) show blackface was omnipresent on campus.


Much more in link.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 8:51 pm 
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Dumbass things done as a child should not follow you into adulthood. With certain exceptions of course.


Your white conservative genius leaders didn't think this gotcha moment on Ralph Northam through very well. Now you are going to have to face the prospect of another Dem governor in Virginia who is also African American.

Nice going.

So, no wonder you guys are now jumping ship and saying Northam shouldn't have to resign.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 9:01 pm 
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His press conference today was surreal.

So it's not him in the photo. He may be telling the truth, but then who put that photo on his yearbook page if it's not him?

IF he is telling the truth, why did he not say this right away? Look, I get it, memory is a hazy thing, but you would presumably remember something memorable like dressing like a Klansman. (Or standing next to somebody dressed that way). Why didn't he say that off the bat?

And then we have this counterclaim that, OK, that same year, he may have donned blackface, but just to portray Michael Jackson? Huh? Is that so much better?

Anyway, I agree with Carmen. Everyone will focus on him, ignore the Confederacy worship lurking all over the state of Virginia and in its political system. Trust me, I know, my brother lives there. One time I went to visit him in Richmond, and some whackjobs in uniform were dragging a Confederate cannon down the main street.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 9:20 pm 
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His press conference today was surreal.

So it's not him in the photo. He may be telling the truth, but then who put that photo on his yearbook page if it's not him?

IF he is telling the truth, why did he not say this right away? Look, I get it, memory is a hazy thing, but you would presumably remember something memorable like dressing like a Klansman. (Or standing next to somebody dressed that way). Why didn't he say that off the bat?

And then we have this counterclaim that, OK, that same year, he may have donned blackface, but just to portray Michael Jackson? Huh? Is that so much better?

Anyway, I agree with Carmen. Everyone will focus on him, ignore the Confederacy worship lurking all over the state of Virginia and in its political system. Trust me, I know, my brother lives there. One time I went to visit him in Richmond, and some whackjobs in uniform were dragging a Confederate cannon down the main street.


It didn't take long for him to become a very easy scapegoat for continued white supremacist practices in law, public policy, and social mores.

For his part, admitting to it and not even a day later denying it isn't doing himself any favors. But as far as I'm concerned, this news story and his own ridiculous yes I did/no I didn't behavior is just the latest exercise in America's dishonesty/self-gaslighting with itself regarding our slavery society and Manifest Destiny past. Cripes, it's not like we're just a week out from some MAGAhat Trump Youth playing victim because he was caught on camera expressing the same white supremacist attitude towards a Native American activist that blackface whites embody.

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Last edited by carmenjonze on Sat Feb 02, 2019 9:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 9:43 pm 
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In case anyone is in doubt about Ike's referencing white male conservative perversion, their throwing their lot with a rapist and perjurer, and this blackface story, this is what the Senate Majority Leader says about Roy Moore.

Mitch McConnell: It Was A Mistake That Voters Did Not Choose Roy Moore - Intellectualist

White conservatism is extremism, and one of two political parties is a full participant in that extremism. Conservative whites have never come to terms with the deep emotional, irrational connection to blackface performance. At this rate, I don't ever expect them to summon up the ethical, moral courage to ever do so, either. Conservative whites are too far-gone in their own, 400 years-old cultural pathology of dehumanizing everybody in their path, for that.

To dehumanize the other is to dehumanize oneself. Conservative whites still don't get this basic fact and they likely never will.

Quote:
During a recent interview with The Wall Street Journal, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) said Alabama’s rejection of Republican Senate candidate Roy Moore — accused by several women of sexual misconduct — was a “mistake.”

Via Salon:

"If you look at a map of America, there's a lot of red," he said, noting one obvious 2020 pickup opportunity for the GOP: Democratic Sen. Doug Jones's Alabama seat.

Mr. McConnell called Mr. Jones' victory over Republican Roy Moore "the Alabama mistake in 2017"—when Mr. Moore, in a special election, faced multiple allegations of sexual misconduct.

McConnell believes it was a "mistake" for voters in Alabama not to choose Roy Moore, who was credibly accused of molesting multiple teenage girls, over Doug Jones, a prosecutor who locked up Klansmen for the murders of children, in the Senate special election to replace Jeff Sessions.


Rape of women, rape of their own women, rape of Black women, slavery economies, Jim Crow/sharecropper economies, forced closets for LGBTQs, cages for immigrant children from south of the border, bans on entire religions from immigration, forced childbirth for every female regardless of circumstance (#profamily #prolife), America First - these are all pages out of old school 1920s KKK white conservatism.

Conservative blackface whites are a public health hazard. They always have been.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:56 am 
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What you're advocating with your "cultural war" mantra is inconsistency and hypocrisy both of which are negative values.


Well...I guess it's just a good thing for me that I will never answer to you 6.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:59 am 
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His press conference today was surreal.

So it's not him in the photo. He may be telling the truth, but then who put that photo on his yearbook page if it's not him?


How about somebody out to get him? Ever had anybody out to get you perfesser? I have, and depending on their malfunction they might do just about anything.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 1:10 am 
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In case anyone is in doubt about Ike's referencing white male conservative perversion, their throwing their lot with a rapist and perjurer, and this blackface story, this is what the Senate Majority Leader says about Roy Moore.

Mitch McConnell: It Was A Mistake That Voters Did Not Choose Roy Moore - Intellectualist

White conservatism is extremism, and one of two political parties is a full participant in that extremism. Conservative whites have never come to terms with the deep emotional, irrational connection to blackface performance. At this rate, I don't ever expect them to summon up the ethical, moral courage to ever do so, either. Conservative whites are too far-gone in their own, 400 years-old cultural pathology of dehumanizing everybody in their path, for that.

To dehumanize the other is to dehumanize oneself. Conservative whites still don't get this basic fact and they likely never will.



Rape of women, rape of their own women, rape of Black women, slavery economies, Jim Crow/sharecropper economies, forced closets for LGBTQs, cages for immigrant children from south of the border, bans on entire religions from immigration, forced childbirth for every female regardless of circumstance (#profamily #prolife), America First - these are all pages out of old school 1920s KKK white conservatism.

Conservative blackface whites are a public health hazard. They always have been.


Hey Mitch

Image


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 4:41 am 
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:problem: klanhats/whitesheets/MAGAhat conservative blackface whites in action.

Va. Republicans kill nondiscrimination bills in committee - Washington Blade

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Republican leadership in the Virginia House of Delegates on Thursday removed two nondiscrimination bills meant to protect LGBT people from the House General Laws Committee’s docket. The move prevents the pieces of legislation from getting past committee and squanders any hope that they may become law in this legislative session.

The bills include House Bill 2677, which would discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation or gender identity in housing, and House Bill 2067, which would prohibit similar discrimination in public employment. Both bills moved past the House Rules Committee on Monday.

Advocates for the legislation hoped the bills would garner significant bipartisan support in the General Laws Committee.

For the past four years, including in this session, similar bills have passed in the Virginia Senate with support from both Republicans and Democrats. Each year, the Republican leadership in the House of Delegates has blocked these complementary versions of the legislation from receiving a vote on the floor.

Equality Virginia hoped this year would be different.


:problem:

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 8:29 am 
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Here is what I don't understand. Virginia gov did something stupid inappropriate and racist 35 years ago and because of that he has to go.

Illinois gov says something stupid inappropriate and racist recently and he gets a pass.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 8:35 am 
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Your white conservative genius leaders didn't think this gotcha moment on Ralph Northam through very well. Now you are going to have to face the prospect of another Dem governor in Virginia who is also African American.

Nice going.

So, no wonder you guys are now jumping ship and saying Northam shouldn't have to resign.



I have no idea who is next up in Virginia nor do I care. I do know holding people accountable gor things they did 35 years ago is wrong. I also know there is a big inconsistency in judgement.

Illinois giv says blacks are offensive and gets a pass. Virginia gov dons blackface 35 years ago and is getting run out of town on a rail.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 8:42 am 
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How about somebody out to get him? Ever had anybody out to get you perfesser? I have, and depending on their malfunction they might do just about anything.


Yeah. But, see, if they wanted to "get me" that way ... I mean, did he never look at his Yearbook before today? If I noticed somebody put a photo of me that's not me on my Yearbook page to make me look bad (or even if it was just a mistake), the Editor of the Yearbook would get an earful.

Unless he didn't care about it until now? (Which I admit is odd, too, as he surely must have worried somebody would find it before, when he was running for office?)

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:39 am 
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We have a couple of things going on here. The first is that Republicans will do anything legal, illegal or treasonous to get into power. The second is as Ike noted a culture war. Today's conservatism being a mental illness seeks to impose/maintain a patriarchal, white skinned power structure in the face of changing demographics. And as demographics change and baby boomers die off followed by Gen-Xers would we be surprised to note that there are conservative blacks, hispanics and other groups that are not self-hating? The question becomes how will this shift play itself out?

Oh, and btw? I have two words: Robert Byrd. Should he have been forced to resign? The difference I note is that I believe Byrd was sincere in his apology. This guy and Henry Hyde before him and Kavanaugh and hamsters and Joran all played word games and the poor, poor pitiful me game. Perhaps that is the difference.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:59 am 
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Yeah. But, see, if they wanted to "get me" that way ... I mean, did he never look at his Yearbook before today? If I noticed somebody put a photo of me that's not me on my Yearbook page to make me look bad (or even if it was just a mistake), the Editor of the Yearbook would get an earful.

Unless he didn't care about it until now? (Which I admit is odd, too, as he surely must have worried somebody would find it before, when he was running for office?)


I would imagine that the university I got my degree at has a yearbook, and with that they probably made an edition for my class year, I've never seen it though.

I do know I ignored a postcard telling me to go to such and such place between such and such dates to sit before a photographer. I doubt they have a photo of me.


I agree with Carmen:

Quote:
Conservative whites trying to play the "but Democrats..." game are going to lose that fight. The reason being, dressing up in Klan and blackface is conservative white behavior. TBH, Northam can resign or not, imo, because I am much more interested in what Virginia has done in the past 35 years that has undergirded the actual white supremacy behind Klan and blackface.

That's what nobody seems to want to address.

This is also a pattern in American history, and an underlying issue behind doing things like taking down Confederate monuments. Taking down the monuments is a first step. Northam resigning is a first step. What is anybody doing to reverse the continued practice of white supremacist ideology in American law and public policy?

And the other side of it is that you have conservative whites like glen who are very eager to downplay this guy showing up in a medical school yearbook in a blackface/kkk scene as yet another infamous "youthful indiscretion" of conservative white males -- conservative whites and their many enablers simply do not see blackface/kkk cosplay as racist behavior.

White conservative reality is on a collision course with itself. It will not be the first time, either.



I do however think Glen is downplaying his reaction to defend "youthful indiscretion" to it's hilt. Some left, not much, I'm encouraged by that. A dime here and quartet there folks are slowly waking up to the reality that beauty in form is only skin deep.


Virginal is not my state, they can figure it out for themselves. :|


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 3:00 pm 
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I have no idea who is next up in Virginia nor do I care.


It’s been stated several times who is up next.

Since when do conservative whites give a damn about accountability for what you guys do, right now as we speak, while your party force-feeds migrants in detention and separates children from their own parents? Tell us again how prolife and profamily you are.

And Virginia has a state holiday for Robert E Lee, a traitor. This is white con public policy.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 4:07 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:24 pm
Posts: 22704
Here is what I don't understand. Virginia gov did something stupid inappropriate and racist 35 years ago and because of that he has to go.

Illinois gov says something stupid inappropriate and racist recently and he gets a pass.


Your own government has been racially profiling naturalized citizen servicepersons in your own military with your own tax dollars.

Judge Orders Pentagon To Stop Discriminating Against Naturalized Citizen Soldiers - NPR

Tell us again about your sudden concerns about accountability for racist, stupid white conservative public policy.

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