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 Post subject: Green New Deal
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:53 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2016 6:01 pm
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Location: Home of the DFL
Commies and trillions! It'll be the death of us!(Hannity's going nuts as usual.) Pelosi gave them their little playground and is now politely blowing them off. (They seem to be taking it well so far.) Will OC never give that drum a rest?

(Bloomberg Opinion) -- Skeptics of Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez’s promise of a Green New Deal were worried that the plan would be a Trojan Horse for unrealistic and ruinously expensive economic proposals that have little to do with stopping climate change. The unveiling of the plan gives them more reason for worry. Ocasio-Cortez’s Green New Deal appears to take every big spending idea that has emerged on the political left in recent years and combine them into one large package deal, with little notion of how to pay for them all.
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/artic ... affordable

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 Post subject: Re: Green New Deal
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:07 am 
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Decided to do a "self merge" by deleting my separate post and then putting it here. :D

Despite Few Details And Much Doubt, The Green New Deal Generates Enthusiasm
https://www.npr.org/2019/02/08/69250899 ... enthusiasm

For a nonbinding resolution with an uncertain future, the Green New Deal is getting a lot of attention, along with a decidedly mixed reaction.

Dozens of Democrats on Thursday introduced the measure, an ambitious framework for future legislation designed to eliminate the U.S. carbon footprint by 2030.

"Our energy future will not be found in the dark of a mine but in the light of the sun," said Sen. Ed Markey, D-Mass., as he announced the legislation on Capitol Hill.

The resolution has few details, but it aims to overhaul the U.S. economy and spread wealth more evenly. It calls for a speedy shift in energy generation, from fossil fuels to renewable sources like wind and solar, and for "a fair and just transition for all communities and workers."

Much of the early criticism revolves around the scope of the plan, which backers say is big to match the challenge of the climate change problem.

"All great American programs, everything from The Great Society to The New Deal, started with a vision for our future," said co-sponsor Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, D-N.Y.

[snip]

These days, transportation accounts for the largest share of greenhouse gas emissions. Green New Deal backers say they want more high-speed trains to make airline travel less necessary, and more electric cars and charging stations. But experts warn that changing the existing fleet of cars in the U.S. would be an extraordinary effort.

[snip][end]

This is just a nonbinding resolution setting a commitment at this point. I like the commitment, people are debating the achievability of the goals, but we do need to be ambitious here.

Of course, from here, what I'd really like to see are more details, and concrete legislation. This looks like just a framework at this point, which is good, from my POV many things are still missing. Hopefully that framework can be filled in.

Yes, of course, the RW is frothing "socialism" but what else can they do?

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 Post subject: Re: Green New Deal
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:33 am 
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If Donald makes it that far...what is going to be really fucking discouraging for me is how many assholes are exposed in the 2020 election. Walking down the street knowing how many scumbags I am being forced to share good air with is going to be way, way more than I can tolerate. It's already too much to tolerate.

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 Post subject: Re: Green New Deal
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:02 pm 
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Watch & listen.

www.youtube.com Video from : www.youtube.com


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 Post subject: Re: Green New Deal
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 3:20 pm 
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Good luck getting Americans out of their ridiculous square not-quite-SUV Things that would likely be taxed up the butt in most other countries. We'd most likely start seeing a National Ridiculous Square Vehicle Association become bigger than the NRA and just as influential. That's what Americans do.

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 Post subject: Re: Green New Deal
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:41 pm 
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If Donald makes it that far...what is going to be really fucking discouraging for me is how many assholes are exposed in the 2020 election. Walking down the street knowing how many scumbags I am being forced to share good air with is going to be way, way more than I can tolerate. It's already too much to tolerate.


Quit whining, eleven bucks at ebay:

Image

They're Soviet surplus, but what difference does that make, they look like they would work OK.

:)


Added bonus, wearing it while walking down the street would scare folks. Especially toddlers.


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 Post subject: Re: Green New Deal
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:21 pm 
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My buddy Jay Smooth on the Green New Deal

www.youtube.com Video from : www.youtube.com


And a Follow Up

Image

:mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Green New Deal
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:19 pm 
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Quit whining, eleven bucks at ebay:

Image

They're Soviet surplus, but what difference does that make, they look like they would work OK.

:)


Added bonus, wearing it while walking down the street would scare folks. Especially toddlers.

The only surplus Soviet I have is a KGB pocket watch. I bought it at the Brandenburg Gate in Berlin in the early 90s.

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Green New Deal
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:04 pm 
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The only surplus Soviet I have is a KGB pocket watch. I bought it at the Brandenburg Gate in Berlin in the early 90s.

Image


I had a pack of their cigarettes once. A soviet sailor gave them to me in exchange for my buying his crew drinks at a bar in Dutch Harbor.


They were odd things. Mostly they were a heavy empty paper tube with a very short unfiltered cigarette glued to one end. A cigarette about 3/4 of an inch long. That is they are that long if they are removed from the pack very carefully so as to not have the tobacco fall out on the ground. Then one drys their lips and carefully bites down on the tube about a 1/3 of the way from the tobacco and then rotates it 90 degrees while drawing it a 1/3 of the way out of their mouth, then bites down again. If one doesn't bite the tube twice like that they will have burning tobacco bits going down their throat. The poor throat is in for it by morning anyway so its best to not make it worse.

Once it's been unpacked and has been properly been bitten it's ready to be lit. Lighting one is a bit dangerous because if one sneezes about then they'll have burning tobacco bits all over their lap. That's relevant because I'm here to tell you the smell and taste of one of them is something to sneeze home about.

I'm pretty sure they make them that way to make their men angry and tough. So I not only got a pack of their cigarettes I got a lesson in how to smoke like a Russian, angry and tough, and why Russians are like that.

:)


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 Post subject: Re: Green New Deal
PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:09 am 
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Quit whining, eleven bucks at ebay:

Image

They're Soviet surplus, but what difference does that make, they look like they would work OK.

:)


Added bonus, wearing it while walking down the street would scare folks. Especially toddlers.


We know they're your buddies Sam. Just don't come crying to me when they've tied you to a chair, you're receiving your ass fucking, and they're not even providing you with the common courtesy of a reach around.

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When was the last time there was a gay-pride parade in Ramallah, or a women’s rights march in Gaza?


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 Post subject: Re: Green New Deal
PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:59 am 
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Who Ike, who's going to tie me to my chair?

They're your demons with their full bodied gastrointestinal tracts. I don't know why you specified that they be fortified with that intestinal tract. I would have given them scales and thangs.

:|

By the way just as soon as I see run down with some specifics on this Green New Deal, I probably will like almost all of it if not all of it. I don't expect it to be more than like day dreaming where one doesn't worry too about not having mapped details and an outline of the code.


What do you think about the green deal Ike?


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 Post subject: Re: Green New Deal
PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:46 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2016 6:01 pm
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:) A favor, please. Both of ya, knock it the fuck off.

So far, the Green Deal is a vision statement, not a mission statement. Can you imagine it? Can ya see it? Does it feel good? Does it feel right? Want it? Without the vision the mission suffers.

The vision is good, ya. i hope it sells.

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 Post subject: Re: Green New Deal
PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:24 am 
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:) A favor, please. Both of ya, knock it the fuck off.


Really? Or what? I don't remember anybody around here being so presumptuous as to tell you how to behave when you decide to take a run at somebody.

So Sam is an annoyance to me. So what? And I tell him I think hes an annoyance. So what? I'm also pretty sure that as long as the candidate is a Democrat, Sam will get out and vote for that candidate. He won't act like some petty miffed millennial sitting in Starbucks on election day staring into a caramel half-sweet decaf upside-down macchiato because he didnt get the candidate he wanted. That makes him politically stellar in my book. Interpersonally I think he's an elevator fart. What do you care, brad?

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When was the last time there was a gay-pride parade in Ramallah, or a women’s rights march in Gaza?


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 Post subject: Re: Green New Deal
PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 11:31 am 
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Really? Or what? I don't remember anybody around here being so presumptuous as to tell you how to behave when you decide to take a run at somebody.

So Sam is an annoyance to me. So what? And I tell him I think hes an annoyance. So what? I'm also pretty sure that as long as the candidate is a Democrat, Sam will get out and vote for that candidate. He won't act like some petty miffed millennial sitting in Starbucks on election day staring into a caramel half-sweet decaf upside-down macchiato because he didnt get the candidate he wanted. That makes him politically stellar in my book. Interpersonally I think he's an elevator fart. What do you care, brad?


Well Ike, other than a strange desire to see which one of ya would shoot first, i could give a whit. :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Green New Deal
PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 11:58 am 
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Americans love a challenge. This is our moonshot.

o When JFK said we’d go to the by the end of the decade, people said
impossible.
o If Eisenhower wanted to build the interstate highway system today,
people would ask how we’d pay for it.
o When FDR called on America to build 185,000 planes to fight World
War 2, every business leader, CEO, and general laughed at him. At the
time, the U.S. had produced 3,000 planes in the last year. By the end
of the war, we produced 300,000 planes. That’s what we are capable of
if we have real leadership."


This is from what Cortez posted on her blog but then took down, conservative sites are passing it around. Cortez's staff is using "o"'s for bullet points, usually bullet point symbols don't copy and paste. I think that's showing new adaptation to fix what almost worked pretty good. It's a good sign.

https://assets.documentcloud.org/docume ... al-FAQ.pdf


I don't know about "every business leader, CEO, and general" laughing at FDR for that. I think they laughed at his wheel chair and foot long cigarette holder.

Ignore that, the gist of the introduction of the new deal which might or might not relate to the real new deal they're working on, it's pretty correct.

That those airplanes could be produced can be traced to earlier works could be pointed out too. Among the works which made it possible to build those airplanes was the damming of the Columbia river to make industrial power for the process of smelting aluminum oxide to in essence "generate" pure aluminum.

Aluminum ore + electricity = Aluminum metal.

It can be reduced down to accounting for that aircraft in terms of electrical generation capacity which was made available by previous works. That generation capacity was created all over the US during the Great Depression public works.

That strengthens the argument being made. Public works don't always have to be done in the name of war.


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 Post subject: Re: Green New Deal
PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 1:11 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2016 6:01 pm
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Location: Home of the DFL
How will you pay for it?
The same way we paid for the New Deal, the 2008 bank bailout and extended
quantitative easing programs. The same way we paid for World War II and all our
current wars. The Federal Reserve can extend credit to power these projects and
investments and new public banks can be created to extend credit. There is also
space for the government to take an equity stake in projects to get a return on
investment. At the end of the day, this is an investment in our economy that should
grow our wealth as a nation, so the question isn’t how will we pay for it, but what
will we do with our new shared prosperity.

https://assets.documentcloud.org/docume ... al-FAQ.pdf

There's the rub. Deficit spending. It needs better vision to sell that part.

They say necessity is the mother of invention. That damn near half the country is not seeing the necessity could be a problem.

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 Post subject: Re: Green New Deal
PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:26 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:27 pm
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Americans love a challenge. This is our moonshot.

o When JFK said we’d go to the by the end of the decade, people said
impossible.
o If Eisenhower wanted to build the interstate highway system today,
people would ask how we’d pay for it.
o When FDR called on America to build 185,000 planes to fight World
War 2, every business leader, CEO, and general laughed at him. At the
time, the U.S. had produced 3,000 planes in the last year. By the end
of the war, we produced 300,000 planes. That’s what we are capable of
if we have real leadership."


This is from what Cortez posted on her blog but then took down, conservative sites are passing it around. Cortez's staff is using "o"'s for bullet points, usually bullet point symbols don't copy and paste. I think that's showing new adaptation to fix what almost worked pretty good. It's a good sign.

https://assets.documentcloud.org/docume ... al-FAQ.pdf


I don't know about "every business leader, CEO, and general" laughing at FDR for that. I think they laughed at his wheel chair and foot long cigarette holder.

Ignore that, the gist of the introduction of the new deal which might or might not relate to the real new deal they're working on, it's pretty correct.

That those airplanes could be produced can be traced to earlier works could be pointed out too. Among the works which made it possible to build those airplanes was the damming of the Columbia river to make industrial power for the process of smelting aluminum oxide to in essence "generate" pure aluminum.

Aluminum ore + electricity = Aluminum metal.

It can be reduced down to accounting for that aircraft in terms of electrical generation capacity which was made available by previous works. That generation capacity was created all over the US during the Great Depression public works.

That strengthens the argument being made. Public works don't always have to be done in the name of war.

Americans love a challenge? How many actually believe that climate change is real? How many in Congress, state legislatures and local government believe it is real? How much money does the fossil fuel industry spread around in local, state and national elections? I agree that it must be done. It simply isn’t going to happen.

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bird's theorem-"we the people" are stupid.

"No one is so foolish as to choose war over peace. In peace sons bury their fathers, in war fathers bury their sons." - Herodotus

The new motto of the USA: Unum de multis. Out of one, many.


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 Post subject: Re: Green New Deal
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 1:01 am 
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Remember when we used to think big? Where did that America go?

Quote:
“We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard.”


John F. Kennedy, 1962


This is a requiem for American vision.

That that quality has been lost is the unavoidable takeaway from three weeks of debate over the Green New Deal introduced in Congress by New York Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Massachusetts Sen. Edward J. Markey. The GND is not a proposed law, but a non-binding resolution calling for a top-to-bottom restructuring of U.S. social, economic and environmental policy. It is, in other words, a list of goals.

Granted, they are very big goals, including: supplying all of America’s power needs through clean, renewable and zero-emission energy sources and retrofitting every building in the country for maximum energy efficiency within 10 years; providing universal access to higher education and healthcare; ending the oppression of people of color, the poor and other marginalized populations; guaranteeing a job with paid vacation and a livable wage to every American.

While many on the right have responded with predictable hysteria — calling it communism, fascism and the end of air travel — there’s one criticism, coming from both left and right, that speaks volumes about what America is in this moment. It says the GND is simply too big an idea. As in House Speaker Nancy Pelosi dubbing it, “the green dream;” columnist Jonah Goldberg ripping it as a “fantasy;” the Washington Times calling GND supporters “the unicorn caucus.”

You will read no analysis of the resolution here. That’s not the point. Yes, it is admittedly vague on how to achieve its goals. But the idea that those goals are too big to be achieved is what rankles. That was, you may recall, the same sentiment that pervaded the fight over the Affordable Care Act a decade ago.

Then, as now, the argument suggested that something vital has seeped out of us. Three generations ago, when President Kennedy committed America to reaching another planet within eight years, did Americans think we couldn’t do it? Indeed, was anyone surprised when we got there with five months to spare?

No. Because big things were what America did. From carving highways out of corn fields and cyber space, to airlifting hope to a starving city, to rebuilding a ravaged continent, to helping save the world from tyranny, to digging a 40-mile trench that united two oceans, to binding East and West with railroad tracks, to defeating the most powerful military on Earth with an army of farmers, when did “big” ever scare America? When did “impossible” ever stop us?

To the contrary, it has always been in the country’s DNA to believe it had the power to transform destiny. Given the frightening state of our affairs and the planet’s imminent meltdown, we could ..........


I would just add that our global warming, energy and environmental issues are one in the same with economic and security inequality, to solve these issues we cant remain with a handful of people having as much power as half the country and the whole of our government.

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