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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:16 am 
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...of employing undocumented workers in the White House.

Iowa voters say employers are at fault for the undocumented worker problem.

The country is half full of assholes.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:31 am 
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Yes, I realize, it's getting to the point where pointing out Trump hypocrisy is like demonstrating the wetness of water, but...

Pipeline of Undocumented Workers for Trump Golf Course Was ‘Open Secret’: WaPo
https://www.thedailybeast.com/tiny-cost ... ourse-wapo

President Trump’s Bedminster, New Jersey, golf course employed more than a dozen undocumented immigrants from Latin America, including six from just one town in Costa Rica, according to a Friday report from The Washington Post. “For me, moving to the U.S. wasn’t a very drastic change,” one former employee of the Trump National Golf Club told the Post. “My whole town practically lived there.” That employee was referencing Santa Teresa de Cajon, which reportedly became a pipeline for undocumented workers. The workers said they completed menial jobs for much less than what they would have been paid as legal licensed employees, and were intentionally hidden during high-profile events. What’s worse, all 16 of the undocumented employees, who provided pay stubs and other evidence of their time at the course, told the Post that their managers were aware of their illegal status. The Post also obtained a police report from 2011, in which an officer wrote that he told a club manager that one of his employees might be undocumented.

This isn’t the first time that Trump organizations have been accused of hiring undocumented immigrants: In December, The New York Times profiled a small group of undocumented women who claimed they worked at the New Jersey course. “Many of us helped him get what he has today,” another former employee told the Post. “This golf course was built by illegals.”

[snip][end]

He's going to go blather at a rally at El Paso on how walls work. Other than that crime there was never high, and was pretty much falling for several years, before a wall was built nearby. Then continued to fall after.

Yeah, he's going to promote an almost classic logical fallacy.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:45 pm 
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The stupid, it burns.

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bird's theorem-"we the people" are stupid.

"No one is so foolish as to choose war over peace. In peace sons bury their fathers, in war fathers bury their sons." - Herodotus

The new motto of the USA: Unum de multis. Out of one, many.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:21 pm 
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...of employing undocumented workers in the White House.

Iowa voters say employers are at fault for the undocumented worker problem.

The country is half full of assholes.


He said he doesnt, NO MATTER what every credible news source on the planet says, if he says no, it is no.

Plus we need to never underestimate the deplorables LOVE of hate, racism, bigotry. They have admitted in polls and other forms that they will forgive rump of Anything if he continues to harm minorities including and especially pregnant Women.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:15 pm 
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That's completely true. If there wasn't a market for their labor, they wouldn't come here. But companies like Tyson's entire business model is based upon illegal labor. The entire meatpacking industry used illegal labor to bust the unions in meatpacking.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:26 pm 
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If they were given citizenship, they could join U.S. labor unions, and be eligible for U.S. labor protections. U.S. labor unions could gain many new members.

They are a 'desirable' population for Tyson and Flo-Sun & etc. because they can be exploited, paid below minimum wage, and have no legal recourse. Also because they cannot be unionized. Yes, the real bad guys are the employers. They often claim they don't know they're really undocumented, but as with Trump, this is often a lie. They know it damn well and they take advantage of it.

And yes, this story has repeated throughout U.S. history. Industry recruits them when they're wanted (like Chinese brought in to build the railroads), and scapegoats them when they're tired of them (see: Chinese Exclusion Act)....

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:40 pm 
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The base simply doesn't want any foreigners ahead of them in the food stamp line.

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When was the last time there was a gay-pride parade in Ramallah, or a women’s rights march in Gaza?


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:00 pm 
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If they were given citizenship, they could join U.S. labor unions, and be eligible for U.S. labor protections. U.S. labor unions could gain many new members.

They are a 'desirable' population for Tyson and Flo-Sun & etc. because they can be exploited, paid below minimum wage, and have no legal recourse. Also because they cannot be unionized. Yes, the real bad guys are the employers. They often claim they don't know they're really undocumented, but as with Trump, this is often a lie. They know it damn well and they take advantage of it.

And yes, this story has repeated throughout U.S. history. Industry recruits them when they're wanted (like Chinese brought in to build the railroads), and scapegoats them when they're tired of them (see: Chinese Exclusion Act)....

Is union membership contingent upon citizenship? If so, why.

I do not know about other industries in the other areas of the country, but I have worked in several distribution centers and several manufacturing plants in this area where I had overall responsibility for payroll. We paid no one below minimum wage and paid most of our employees well above minimum wage. We did not use E-verify and hiring was based upon completion of the I-9 and presentation of proper forms of ID. That was the minimum required under the law. We had a few cases of false id's which were discovered well after employment. If you call social security they will tell you that you cannot terminate their employment but instead send them to the social security office to get it straightened out. Bottom-line - as employers we were not looking for cheap labor but for labor itself. We were looking to fill open positions in the workforce in order to meet production. It would have been easier if all the undocumented workers were given legal status. Easier for us to hire. Better for the worker - they can work in the open without fear. Better for the nation - they participate in our economy and pay taxes. Some employers may exploit illegals but my experience in two industries which employ a fairly large number of hourly workers doesn't support that assertion. Not saying it doesn't happen.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:30 pm 
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It is going to be the greed of business that will lead to their demise. I don't know how many of you are aware of it but, today in most of the country business are paying about $11 an hour.

In most cases for labor that is worth much more. It is that greed which will come back and bite them in the ass sooner rather than later.

Considering in most of flyover country you need about $600 a week for a family of 3 to get by on. Two workers will bring in about $700. However when you deduct daycare they are back under the just get by on number.

What really brought down the unions was they had ti mucj power. It wasnt about high wages it was about a lack of production and an unwillingness to compromise.

Basically the exact same thing management has today. Except it is low wages for to much production.

I believe by 2030 because of laws and rules put in by liberals requiring union membership we will be back to the unions holding all the cards. When they do they will be once again flexing their muscles and being just as uncompromising as management is today.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:51 pm 
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Except that, when unions don't compromise, you see more people everywhere with nice houses and good meals, and fewer people in a couple of places with 360-foot yachts.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:07 pm 
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I am a republican, I am AGAINST people making more money and having better lives, unless it is me of course.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:28 pm 
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I am a republican, I am AGAINST people making more money and having better lives, unless it is me of course.


Rest assured libby, when push comes to shove they will slash each others throats just as fast as they will slash the throat of some rag head, wetback or kike. Its gonna be fun to see who will get their throat cut first by the other...Kushner or Don Jr. We have already seen how long it took that vile piece of shit Michael Cohen to flip when he saw how much time he was looking at.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:12 pm 
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If nothing else, I'm enjoying the Roger Stone - Jerome Corsi slapfest. It's Slime vs. Slime. No matter who gets hurt, it's good. :D

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:21 pm 
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Is union membership contingent upon citizenship? If so, why.


If it's a national union ... U.S. labor law. If it's the IWW or some transnational union ... could be fine. Dunno, ask a labor lawyer.

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Some employers may exploit illegals but my experience in two industries which employ a fairly large number of hourly workers doesn't support that assertion. Not saying it doesn't happen.


I delight in your personal experience, but I read about the experience of others.

Undocumented workers' grim reality: speak out on abuse and risk deportation
Migrants in the low-wage depths of the US economy say they're being targeted for simply standing up for employees' rights
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/ ... eportation

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:04 pm 
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If it's a national union ... U.S. labor law. If it's the IWW or some transnational union ... could be fine. Dunno, ask a labor lawyer.



I delight in your personal experience, but I read about the experience of others.

Undocumented workers' grim reality: speak out on abuse and risk deportation
Migrants in the low-wage depths of the US economy say they're being targeted for simply standing up for employees' rights
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/ ... eportation



I assume it was Joe, who like glen referred to human beings as ILLEGALS, again. It pisses me off the same as when they purposely say DemocRAT. They LOST their right to be treated as equal, decent human beings because they simply arent. Each time one of these woefully ignorant people says shit like this they just reaffirm why evolution will ultimately deal with them.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:25 pm 
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I assume it was Joe, who like glen referred to human beings as ILLEGALS, again. It pisses me off the same as when they purposely say DemocRAT. They LOST their right to be treated as equal, decent human beings because they simply arent. Each time one of these woefully ignorant people says shit like this they just reaffirm why evolution will ultimately deal with them.



So similar to how Nazis spoke of Jews and racists of Blacks. That is your mindset not mine not Joe's yours hopefully it is inthe minority of progressives but I am beginning to have my doubts.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:47 pm 
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glen proves he doesnt know the meaning of the word "evolution"

People like glen and joe cant evolve probably, but their grand-kids can

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:56 pm 
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So similar to how Nazis spoke of Jews and racists of Blacks. That is your mindset not mine not Joe's yours hopefully it is inthe minority of progressives but I am beginning to have my doubts.


Unclear on the concept.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:45 pm 
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If it's a national union ... U.S. labor law. If it's the IWW or some transnational union ... could be fine. Dunno, ask a labor lawyer.



I delight in your personal experience, but I read about the experience of others.

Undocumented workers' grim reality: speak out on abuse and risk deportation
Migrants in the low-wage depths of the US economy say they're being targeted for simply standing up for employees' rights
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/ ... eportation

I delight in your personal experiences as well. I have no doubt that there is some abuse amoung undocumented workers in certain industries particularly those that employ seasonal help, temporary contract labor. Most large companies have policies and may use e-verify. Small and medium size companies tend to do the minimum required to meet legal requirements. Many of these folks come to this country to work and there are employers who would be more than happy to have them work openly and legally. We always had open positions and were always looking for help in production. Nobody working in the plant made minimum wage. Depending on the job you made roughly the same as any other man on the floor regardless of race or national origin. As I said, I have worked in manufacturing and distribution in non union shops and nobody, repeat nobody made minimum wage. More over, if you WERE paying undocumented workers less than minimum wage, your own workforce would turn you in. Are there abuses, I have no doubt. But I question whether it is as widespread or pervasive as you suggest. I have worked in industries than employ a number of hourly workers over the last 20 years and have never seen it happen. If you are undocumented and someone is paying you less than minimum wage - all you need to do is pay 50 dollars for fake documents and go down the street and go to work for the next guy.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:52 pm 
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Huh. Maybe we need to take a look at the president's own properties.

https://boingboing.net/2019/02/10/pura-maga.html

The Washington Post tracked down workers from Santa Teresa de Cajon in Costa Rica, who say that they and their neighbors were part of a "pipeline" from Central America to Trump properties in New Jersey and elsewhere, where they worked doing construction, groundskeeping, and cleaning, with the full knowledge of their supervisors and Trump Organization managers (a claim verified by a police report detailing a warning from local officials to Trump Organization bosses about the number of undocumented workers on Trump's property).

The workers say they were paid about 20% of the local wage for their labor, and that their undocumented status was weaponized against them: Trump managers refused basics like raincoats for outdoor workers during storms, set lawnmowers speeds so high that workers would have to run to keep up with them for hours on end, and, of course, denied them routine workplace necessities like health care, sick days, etc. They describe being verbally abused and threatened by their managers.

[snip]

There was also seeding, watering, mowing, building the sand traps and driving bulldozers, mini-excavators and loaders — all while they earned about $10 an hour or less, they said.

Around that time, a licensed heavy equipment operator in central New Jersey would have received an average of $51 to $55 per hour in wages and benefits, according to union officials at the International Union of Operating Engineers Local 825 in the nearby town of Springfield.

[snip][end]

I'm not discounting your personal experience, Joe. Only your insistence that because that was how your companies did things, everybody does.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:41 am 
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Huh. Maybe we need to take a look at the president's own properties.

https://boingboing.net/2019/02/10/pura-maga.html

The Washington Post tracked down workers from Santa Teresa de Cajon in Costa Rica, who say that they and their neighbors were part of a "pipeline" from Central America to Trump properties in New Jersey and elsewhere, where they worked doing construction, groundskeeping, and cleaning, with the full knowledge of their supervisors and Trump Organization managers (a claim verified by a police report detailing a warning from local officials to Trump Organization bosses about the number of undocumented workers on Trump's property).

The workers say they were paid about 20% of the local wage for their labor, and that their undocumented status was weaponized against them: Trump managers refused basics like raincoats for outdoor workers during storms, set lawnmowers speeds so high that workers would have to run to keep up with them for hours on end, and, of course, denied them routine workplace necessities like health care, sick days, etc. They describe being verbally abused and threatened by their managers.

[snip]

There was also seeding, watering, mowing, building the sand traps and driving bulldozers, mini-excavators and loaders — all while they earned about $10 an hour or less, they said.

Around that time, a licensed heavy equipment operator in central New Jersey would have received an average of $51 to $55 per hour in wages and benefits, according to union officials at the International Union of Operating Engineers Local 825 in the nearby town of Springfield.

[snip][end]

I'm not discounting your personal experience, Joe. Only your insistence that because that was how your companies did things, everybody does.


Professor,

If you read both of my posts in this thread you will not find a statement that "everybody does" things the same way. In fact, I said there were probably abuses in some industries. I said I had not witnessed it and that I questioned whether it was as prevalent as you made it sound. That's all. I am not insisting on anything. There is no reason to misrepresent what I said to make your point.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:26 am 
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Professor,

If you read both of my posts in this thread you will not find a statement that "everybody does" things the same way. In fact, I said there were probably abuses in some industries. I said I had not witnessed it and that I questioned whether it was as prevalent as you made it sound. That's all. I am not insisting on anything. There is no reason to misrepresent what I said to make your point.


Nobody is misrepresenting anything, Joe. You habitually and historically talk out of both sides of your mouth simultaneously.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:25 am 
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So similar to how Nazis spoke of Jews and racists of Blacks.


The Nazis vote the same way you, Joe, and the rest of the conservative whites do: Republican.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:29 am 
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Bless you, Elie.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:56 am 
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The same people bitching about Undocumented Workers taking the jobs of honest Americans are the same people who hire Undocumented Workers to clean their pool, clean their house and do the gardening.

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