If you're cheered by Vlad Putin, it's time to reconsider

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gounion
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If you're cheered by Vlad Putin, it's time to reconsider

Post by gounion »

Mitt Romney must watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4VpVtVsSCo

And before you say it's lefties misrepresenting Romney, it's from his Senatorial account.

The GOP is now the party of Putin. So, Glenn and Joe, don't tell us you're supporting country over party. You're not. Reagan would piss all over you guys.

Since I'm sure neither of you will click the link to watch the speech, here's the full text, again, straight from Romney's own account: https://www.romney.senate.gov/romney-if ... -position/

The vote we will soon take to provide military weapons for Ukraine is the most important vote we will ever take as United States senators. We are not being asked to send American troops into war, only to help the Ukrainians defend themselves.

If we fail to help Ukraine, Putin will invade a NATO nation. He may delay his next invasion until he re-builds his decimated military. But let’s be clear-eyed: Ukraine is not the end, it is a step.

If we fail to help Ukraine, China will eventually absorb Taiwan.

If we fail to help Ukraine, we will abandon our word and our commitment, proving to our friends a view that America cannot be trusted. The Chinese Communist Party is already spreading propaganda using our delay as a warning to Taiwan that the United States will not be there to help in the face of China’s threat.

If we fail to help Ukraine, NATO, the alliance that has prevented great power conflict for over 75 years, will falter and eventually disintegrate.

If we fail to help Ukraine, America will cease to be the arsenal of democracy. It will cease to be the leader of the free world. We will be replaced by the authoritarians—China, Russia, Iran, and North Korea.

If we fail to help Ukraine, we will be known not as our fathers and mothers were—the greatest generation—but as the worst generation.

Now for months, I have listened to the arguments for denying help to the Ukrainian people. I have observed that the reasons have evolved over time.

First, it was claimed that Europe was not paying its fair share. That was proven incorrect. Our allies have already contributed more than $96 billion in aid—and the EU earlier this month agreed to provide $54 billion more over the next four years.

Next, it was argued that we should instead focus on the Pacific and Taiwan, but Taiwan and Japan and South Korea tell us that the single best thing we can do to dissuade CCP aggression is to support Ukraine.

Next, we were told that we couldn’t afford the $60 billion for Ukraine-related funding. But somehow, we can afford an $850 billion defense budget and annual trillion-dollar deficits, which has happened under both former President Trump and President Biden.

Next, it was claimed that we would have insufficient weapons to defend America and Israel if we sent more weapons to Ukraine. But, the Department of Defense has explained that helping Ukraine will actually strengthen our national security by helping to rebuild our depleted military industrial base.

The latest excuse for denying aid to Ukraine is that this bill is a clever disguise to set up an impeachment of Donald Trump at some point in the future. Under this so-called logic, Trump has to be elected, Democrats have to win the House, and those Democrats would have to have been unable to find any other indiscretion of President Trump’s upon which to base an impeachment.

I know that the shock jocks and online instigators have effectively riled up many in the far reaches of my party. But if your position is being cheered by Vladimir Putin, it’s time to reconsider your position.

Now, I cannot see into the future—and there are no guarantees that Ukraine will defeat Russia. But that does not mean that we should stand back and let Putin have his way with Europe. What sending weapons to Ukraine does do is help discourage further Russian and Chinese invasions which could draw us in, it helps preserve NATO, it allows America to remain the leader of the free world, and it shows that we honor our word to our friends and allies.

Lech Wałęsa, the first democratically-elected president of Poland since 1926 and someone I have been fortunate enough to meet with, recently wrote to all the United States senators. He said this: “You are obliged to assure a peaceful future for your children. Our grandchildren will never forgive us if we fail to stop Russia now. If the U.S. does not lead, nobody will.” I could not agree more. Helping a free people defend their freedom is simply the right thing to do.
These are the stakes. Which side are you on?

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ZoWie
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Re: If you're cheered by Vlad Putin, it's time to reconsider

Post by ZoWie »

Agreed that Putin is the world's leading player right now in the global propaganda derby. He has the means and the intent. Every day I read about another country showing obvious disinformation activity.

He's winning... big...
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Toonces
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Re: If you're cheered by Vlad Putin, it's time to reconsider

Post by Toonces »

If you cheered on Putin at any point, you were on the wrong side.
JoeMemphis
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Re: If you're cheered by Vlad Putin, it's time to reconsider

Post by JoeMemphis »

Toonces wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2024 2:05 pm If you cheered on Putin at any point, you were on the wrong side.
Nobody on this board has cheered Putin. Nobody.
gounion
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Re: If you're cheered by Vlad Putin, it's time to reconsider

Post by gounion »

JoeMemphis wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2024 2:29 pm Nobody on this board has cheered Putin. Nobody.
Oh? Where have you supported arming Ukraine?

I sure haven’t seen you speak out against any of the GOP Putin supporters. Including your Senators.

Both Marco Rubio and Rick Scott, along with South Carolina Senators Lindsey Graham and Tim Scott voted AGAINST Ukraine and Israel funding.

Are you going to support those Senators? Will you still be voting for Rick Scott this year?
JoeMemphis
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Re: If you're cheered by Vlad Putin, it's time to reconsider

Post by JoeMemphis »

gounion wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2024 2:59 pm Oh? Where have you supported arming Ukraine?

I sure haven’t seen you speak out against any of the GOP Putin supporters. Including your Senators.

Both Marco Rubio and Rick Scott, along with South Carolina Senators Lindsey Graham and Tim Scott voted AGAINST Ukraine and Israel funding.

Are you going to support those Senators? Will you still be voting for Rick Scott this year?
I have always supported the war effort in the Ukraine. I have never opposed it. I have said as much on this board.

I don’t know of any Senator or Congressman that is pro Putin. They may be isolationist but that is a different matter. There were isolationist pro to WW2 but that didn’t make them pro Nazi. I don’t agree with the isolationist in this matter because to me we are repeating the same mistakes that were made prior to 1939 with Germany.

I agreed with Romney as far back as his debate with Obama. Remember when Romney named Russia as an existential threat. Remember when Obama and many members of this board ridiculed him for it. Not so funny now is it?
gounion
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Re: If you're cheered by Vlad Putin, it's time to reconsider

Post by gounion »

JoeMemphis wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2024 4:59 pm I have always supported the war effort in the Ukraine. I have never opposed it. I have said as much on this board.

I don’t know of any Senator or Congressman that is pro Putin. They may be isolationist but that is a different matter. There were isolationist pro to WW2 but that didn’t make them pro Nazi. I don’t agree with the isolationist in this matter because to me we are repeating the same mistakes that were made prior to 1939 with Germany.

I agreed with Romney as far back as his debate with Obama. Remember when Romney named Russia as an existential threat. Remember when Obama and many members of this board ridiculed him for it. Not so funny now is it?
Obviously you didn't read Romney's speech. Because he basically said that voting against the bill is voting for Putin.

And you'll pull the lever for them, won't you?
JoeMemphis
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Re: If you're cheered by Vlad Putin, it's time to reconsider

Post by JoeMemphis »

gounion wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2024 5:53 pm Obviously you didn't read Romney's speech. Because he basically said that voting against the bill is voting for Putin.

And you'll pull the lever for them, won't you?
Well I don’t agree with Romney or you on that point. I do agree with him on support for Ukraine.
gounion
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Re: If you're cheered by Vlad Putin, it's time to reconsider

Post by gounion »

JoeMemphis wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2024 5:55 pm Well I don’t agree with Romney or you on that point. I do agree with him on support for Ukraine.
Then why did both your Senators vote AGAINST support for Ukriane after espousing support for Ukraine?

So Romney is full of shit, eh? It won't be a big deal at all if we let Putin have Ukraine.
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Toonces
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Re: If you're cheered by Vlad Putin, it's time to reconsider

Post by Toonces »

I've maintained for a long time that Putin is the most dangerous man in the world. I've had many arguments (not here) about it. Strangely, none of them have apologized. I've made no secret of my distaste for the man. I don't hate people as a general rule, but he's an exception. The world will be safer when he's dead. The sooner, the better.

When he's dead it won't mean that Russia will be less of a threat, but the threat will begin to diminish.

Ukraine has done a tremendous service to the world in slowing Russia, hopefully stopping them. We should acknowledge and thank the Ukrainian people.
JoeMemphis
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Re: If you're cheered by Vlad Putin, it's time to reconsider

Post by JoeMemphis »

gounion wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2024 5:58 pm Then why did both your Senators vote AGAINST support for Ukriane after espousing support for Ukraine?

So Romney is full of shit, eh? It won't be a big deal at all if we let Putin have Ukraine.
Evidently you and Obama thought he was full of shit. You and Obama didn’t think it was a big deal. That was back in 2012 and now just 11 years later you are Romney guys.

I told you what I thought. I don’t have a problem discussing my thoughts on Ukraine. I dont speak for other people.
gounion
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Re: If you're cheered by Vlad Putin, it's time to reconsider

Post by gounion »

I’ve said over and over that Putin is a KGB Thug, and Glenn defended Trump when Trump took office, and invited KGB Agents into the Oval Office and shared secret Israeli intel with them - purportedly the names of Israeli spies around the world. I wonder if that - and future leaks to Putin by Trump - that contributed to the surprise attack on Israel?

But hey it’s fine that Putin is Trump’s best friend, well, aside from his lover Kim Jong Un.

And voting against Ukraine and Israeli aid is perfectly fine with JoeMemphis.
gounion
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Re: If you're cheered by Vlad Putin, it's time to reconsider

Post by gounion »

JoeMemphis wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2024 6:04 pm Evidently you and Obama thought he was full of shit. You and Obama didn’t think it was a big deal. That was back in 2012 and now just 11 years later you are Romney guys.

I told you what I thought. I don’t have a problem discussing my thoughts on Ukraine. I dont speak for other people.
But you sure as fuck vote for them.
JoeMemphis
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Re: If you're cheered by Vlad Putin, it's time to reconsider

Post by JoeMemphis »

gounion wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2024 6:05 pm I’ve said over and over that Putin is a KGB Thug, and Glenn defended Trump when Trump took office, and invited KGB Agents into the Oval Office and shared secret Israeli intel with them - purportedly the names of Israeli spies around the world. I wonder if that - and future leaks to Putin by Trump - that contributed to the surprise attack on Israel?

But hey it’s fine that Putin is Trump’s best friend, well, aside from his lover Kim Jong Un.

And voting against Ukraine and Israeli aid is perfectly fine with JoeMemphis.
You should be able to make your point without lying about me. But I guess that’s beyond your skill set. Your are nothing more than a cheap Trump imitation.
Glennfs
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Re: If you're cheered by Vlad Putin, it's time to reconsider

Post by Glennfs »

gounion wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2024 6:05 pm I’ve said over and over that Putin is a KGB Thug, and Glenn defended Trump when Trump took office, and invited KGB Agents into the Oval Office and shared secret Israeli intel with them - purportedly the names of Israeli spies around the world. I wonder if that - and future leaks to Putin by Trump - that contributed to the surprise attack on Israel?

But hey it’s fine that Putin is Trump’s best friend, well, aside from his lover Kim Jong Un.

And voting against Ukraine and Israeli aid is perfectly fine with JoeMemphis.
So saying Trump did that out of incompetence is defending Trump?
" I am a socialist " Bernie Sanders
gounion
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Re: If you're cheered by Vlad Putin, it's time to reconsider

Post by gounion »

Glennfs wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2024 7:33 pm So saying Trump did that out of incompetence is defending Trump?
Pretending it was no big deal is defending Trump.
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Re: If you're cheered by Vlad Putin, it's time to reconsider

Post by Glennfs »

gounion wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2024 8:17 pm Pretending it was no big deal is defending Trump.
Believing he was selling or giving away stare secrets for personal gain is a a wacky opinion to have.
Trump was a horrible president and in my opinion was being pumped for information by trained operatives and his incompetence lead him to show off and give information he should not have.
And
Nobody here has cheered or supported Putin now or ever.

However I have to question if you aren't overstating and exaggerating what actually occurred.
" I am a socialist " Bernie Sanders
gounion
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Re: If you're cheered by Vlad Putin, it's time to reconsider

Post by gounion »

Glennfs wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2024 10:39 pm Believing he was selling or giving away stare secrets for personal gain is a a wacky opinion to have.
Trump was a horrible president and in my opinion was being pumped for information by trained operatives and his incompetence lead him to show off and give information he should not have.
And
Nobody here has cheered or supported Putin now or ever.

However I have to question if you aren't overstating and exaggerating what actually occurred.
Not wacky at all. Trump steals state secrets and hoards them. Were they for sale?

You always come to Trump’s defense and try to tell people like DoJ Special Counsels that they are crazy to suspect Trump.

And Romney’s a liar, eh?

You certainly don’t care if we support Ukraine.

I remember when Republicans were fervently anti-communist. Now you guys support whatever Putin wants to do.

I remember the GoP hoping that we had a confrontation with Putin so that he could beat Obama.

You guys really need to put country before party. And your Senator goes over the Ukraine, says over there that we MUST support them, and now, because his Dear Leader told him to, votes against helping them OR Israel. Same with Tim Scott, who wants to be Trump’s VP, because he LOVES Trump.

I wonder what you would say if Democrats voted against Israeli aid.
gounion
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Re: If you're cheered by Vlad Putin, it's time to reconsider

Post by gounion »

JoeMemphis wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2024 6:11 pm You should be able to make your point without lying about me. But I guess that’s beyond your skill set. Your are nothing more than a cheap Trump imitation.
You are supporting Rick Scott for Senate. Both Senators from Tennessee, whom you vote for, voted against the bill, too.

Now, Romney lays out the stakes, and what voting against means.

So now Romney’s a liar. What about his statement do you want to rebut?

You can post a rebuttal, too, Glenn. Tell us how Romney is wrong.
JoeMemphis
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Re: If you're cheered by Vlad Putin, it's time to reconsider

Post by JoeMemphis »

gounion wrote: Sat Feb 17, 2024 8:17 am You are supporting Rick Scott for Senate. Both Senators from Tennessee, whom you vote for, voted against the bill, too.

Now, Romney lays out the stakes, and what voting against means.

So now Romney’s a liar. What about his statement do you want to rebut?

You can post a rebuttal, too, Glenn. Tell us how Romney is wrong.
Romney is not a liar. Romney is not wrong. Obama was wrong. All the folks who ridiculed Romney were wrong. I happen to agree with Romney regarding support for Ukraine. I also support aid to Israel and Taiwan. I also support funding border security. None of which can in any way shape or form equate to support for Putin.

I don’t speak for other people. I leave that to assholes who spend all their time talking about what other people think and little expressing their views and explaining how they formed their positions.
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Re: If you're cheered by Vlad Putin, it's time to reconsider

Post by Glennfs »

gounion wrote: Sat Feb 17, 2024 8:17 am You are supporting Rick Scott for Senate. Both Senators from Tennessee, whom you vote for, voted against the bill, too.

Now, Romney lays out the stakes, and what voting against means.

So now Romney’s a liar. What about his statement do you want to rebut?

You can post a rebuttal, too, Glenn. Tell us how Romney is wrong.
Unlike you and your fellow liberals conservatives do not feel the need to accept support and defend every Republican every conservative or every thing they say and do.
For example

You support AOC the Squad and every thing they say and do. Including anti semitism

You support 100pct of whatever comes out of the congressional progressive caucus

You support and defend Bernie Sanders especially when it looked like he had a shot at the democratic nomination

Until recently you refused to give a personal opinion about Willis. Now you claim she did nothing wrong and it is a Maga witch hunt.

Recently Congresswoman Lee called for a $50 minimum wage. Something I am sure you won't condemn or admit the person proposing that should not be in the Senate or the House.

I personally agree with Romney and disagree with those opposing aid to Ukraine or Israel.

But you go ahead and keep your hypocrisy and double standard. According to you every Democrat in any election since you became eligible to vote was a better choice than the republican.
Even in hindsight you can't think of even one time when you think that you voted for the wrong guy.

Making you a low information voter and giving you zero credibility.
" I am a socialist " Bernie Sanders
gounion
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Re: If you're cheered by Vlad Putin, it's time to reconsider

Post by gounion »

Glennfs wrote: Sat Feb 17, 2024 8:54 am Unlike you and your fellow liberals conservatives do not feel the need to accept support and defend every Republican every conservative or every thing they say and do.
For example

You support AOC the Squad and every thing they say and do. Including anti semitism

You support 100pct of whatever comes out of the congressional progressive caucus

You support and defend Bernie Sanders especially when it looked like he had a shot at the democratic nomination

Until recently you refused to give a personal opinion about Willis. Now you claim she did nothing wrong and it is a Maga witch hunt.

Recently Congresswoman Lee called for a $50 minimum wage. Something I am sure you won't condemn or admit the person proposing that should not be in the Senate or the House.

I personally agree with Romney and disagree with those opposing aid to Ukraine or Israel.

But you go ahead and keep your hypocrisy and double standard. According to you every Democrat in any election since you became eligible to vote was a better choice than the republican.
Even in hindsight you can't think of even one time when you think that you voted for the wrong guy.

Making you a low information voter and giving you zero credibility.
Tell me how Romney is wrong. Quit deflecting.
Glennfs
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Re: If you're cheered by Vlad Putin, it's time to reconsider

Post by Glennfs »

gounion wrote: Sat Feb 17, 2024 8:58 am Tell me how Romney is wrong. Quit deflecting.
What part of I agree with Romney don't you understand
" I am a socialist " Bernie Sanders
gounion
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Re: If you're cheered by Vlad Putin, it's time to reconsider

Post by gounion »

Glennfs wrote: Sat Feb 17, 2024 9:06 am What part of I agree with Romney don't you understand
So what does that say about your support of Lindsey Graham and Tim Scott, who voted in favor of Vlad Putin?
gounion
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Re: If you're cheered by Vlad Putin, it's time to reconsider

Post by gounion »

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