EV demand has grown cold

[Glennfs]

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/13/ev-euph ... in-us.html

Not surprising that the EV buzz of a few years ago has grown very cold. Personally I believe that people who were hot to trot on EVs went out and bought one. The market hasn't expanded which is why it has grown so weak.

That and people just do not want electric cars. At least not yet. They aren't practical finding charging ports is difficult. Charging is very time consuming. Many people bought them for the novelty. Now that novelty has worn off.

I will never understand why we didn't put the R and D money into developing a true hybrid. Surely building an electric car whose batteries could be chared going down the road by a 1000cc air cooled motor cycle type engine couldn't be that difficult.

Giving you a basically an EC with minimal pollution that would get between 50 and 75 mpg. While still being the type of big vehicle we Americans have always been driven to. ( pun intended)

The American mindset has always been look at me. Look at my car it proves I have arrived.

Akron Ohio was pretty much primarily people from West Virginia and Kentucky at one time. People who like most of my family which not unlike today's undocumented workers migrated North for jobs in the rubber industry. One person would get a job and write home the plant is hiring. Next thing you know two thirds of the brothers and cousins left the farm.

Now I including that to say this back in 78 I was selling Lincoln's and Mercury's. I guarantee you that over half of the Mercury Marquis I sold took a trip to West Virginia or Kentucky before the first payment was due. All to show "mom and them" just how well they were doing.

That mindset hasn't changed and electric cars just do not fill that need.

[JoeMemphis]

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/13/ev-euph ... in-us.html

Not surprising that the EV buzz of a few years ago has grown very cold. Personally I believe that people who were hot to trot on EVs went out and bought one. The market hasn't expanded which is why it has grown so weak.

That and people just do not want electric cars. At least not yet. They aren't practical finding charging ports is difficult. Charging is very time consuming. Many people bought them for the novelty. Now that novelty has worn off.

I will never understand why we didn't put the R and D money into developing a true hybrid. Surely building an electric car whose batteries could be chared going down the road by a 1000cc air cooled motor cycle type engine couldn't be that difficult.

Giving you a basically an EC with minimal pollution that would get between 50 and 75 mpg. While still being the type of big vehicle we Americans have always been driven to. ( pun intended)

The American mindset has always been look at me. Look at my car it proves I have arrived.

Akron Ohio was pretty much primarily people from West Virginia and Kentucky at one time. People who like most of my family which not unlike today's undocumented workers migrated North for jobs in the rubber industry. One person would get a job and write home the plant is hiring. Next thing you know two thirds of the brothers and cousins left the farm.

Now I including that to say this back in 78 I was selling Lincoln's and Mercury's. I guarantee you that over half of the Mercury Marquis I sold took a trip to West Virginia or Kentucky before the first payment was due. All to show "mom and them" just how well they were doing.

That mindset hasn't changed and electric cars just do not fill that need.

The government has certainly done what it could to help create a market for these products. That only goes so far. As you point out, despite all their efforts, the demand just isn’t there. That’s not to say that there won’t be demand in the future but it’s not there today. A number of factors are at play. People don’t have the disposable income they are willing to spend on these vehicles. Money is tight and the prices and incentives aren’t enough to get them over the hump. People still have questions and concerns about technology and performance. Again, if money is tight, they aren’t going to take the risk.

The car manufacturing companies bought into the government pitch when they should have paid more attention to what their customers actually wanted. They misread the market. It has cost them billions.

Better hybrids may be the answer. Who knows what technology will bring in the foreseeable future. But I’m hoping they will first follow the market. It needs to be there if these incentives are going to work.

[ZoWie]

You must not live in the same auto market that I do. People have voted with their feet, all right, and what they want around here in suburban hell is a station wagon by any other name. I don't have any other way to describe the vehicles around here. 80 per cent of them are square or squared off, larger than cars used to be, and usually with hatchbacks and a flat place at the top of the hatch to keep the sun off and provide a place for the satellite antenna.

If you call it a station wagon, they'll look at you funny. They associate those with fake wood and wheelbases more like a UPS truck. But that's what they are, and that's what they're used for. Errands, schlepping kids around, bringing home 8 bags of groceries, all that stuff.

And yes, except for the ever-present Teslas and maybe the one hybrid you'll see in a day, they all have standard gasoline engines.

[JoeMemphis]

You must not live in the same auto market that I do. People have voted with their feet, all right, and what they want around here in suburban hell is a station wagon by any other name. I don't have any other way to describe the vehicles around here. 80 per cent of them are square or squared off, larger than cars used to be, and usually with hatchbacks and a flat place at the top of the hatch to keep the sun off and provide a place for the satellite antenna.

If you call it a station wagon, they'll look at you funny. They associate those with fake wood and wheelbases more like a UPS truck. But that's what they are, and that's what they're used for. Errands, schlepping kids around, bringing home 8 bags of groceries, all that stuff.

And yes, except for the ever-present Teslas and maybe the one hybrid you'll see in a day, they all have standard gasoline engines.

If your point is that the market isn’t EV’s then we are in agreement. Maybe sometime in the future, but not now. I can’t see owning one. I travel often driving 600 to 700 miles in a day. I don’t think that lends itself to an EV. I’m certainly not going to pay the different for the inconvenience.

[gounion]

I’ll wait and see what things are like when I am ready for new car(s). My wife’s Pacifica is available in a hybrid.

I won’t buy an IC only car, that’s for sure. Probably a hybrid. If I were to buy both at once, I’d buy one hybrid for when I was traveling, and an electric-only for in town.

I’d want a plug-in hybrid. I’d love to tell the oil companies to take a hike. And most of our electricity here is hydro power, thank you FDR and TVA.

[bird]

The thread’s title is completely inaccurate.

https://www.cbtnews.com/j-d-power-lower ... -forecast/

The projections are continued growth.

I would speculate that pricing and charging stations still lagging are causing a slowdown while not stopping growth of EV sales.

[Glennfs]

You must not live in the same auto market that I do. People have voted with their feet, all right, and what they want around here in suburban hell is a station wagon by any other name. I don't have any other way to describe the vehicles around here. 80 per cent of them are square or squared off, larger than cars used to be, and usually with hatchbacks and a flat place at the top of the hatch to keep the sun off and provide a place for the satellite antenna.

If you call it a station wagon, they'll look at you funny. They associate those with fake wood and wheelbases more like a UPS truck. But that's what they are, and that's what they're used for. Errands, schlepping kids around, bringing home 8 bags of groceries, all that stuff.

And yes, except for the ever-present Teslas and maybe the one hybrid you'll see in a day, they all have standard gasoline engines.

It is my understanding that SUVs replaced the station wagon because SUVs are classified as trucks. Making them subject to a different set of MPG regulations

[JoeMemphis]

The thread’s title is completely inaccurate.

https://www.cbtnews.com/j-d-power-lower ... -forecast/

The projections are continued growth.

I would speculate that pricing and charging stations still lagging are causing a slowdown while not stopping growth of EV sales.

I dunno Bird. They obviously haven’t hit their projections. Hopefully the current projections are more realistic. We shall see.

[JoeMemphis]

It is my understanding that SUVs replaced the station wagon because SUVs are classified as trucks. Making them subject to a different set of MPG regulations

I think you are right. My truck gets about 18 mpg on the highway if I’m not towing anything. Obviously the requirements for passenger cars are much higher.

[bird]

I dunno Bird. They obviously haven’t hit their projections. Hopefully the current projections are more realistic. We shall see.

Yeah, I get the projections issue. But that is always the problem with plans and projections. It is virtually impossible to factor in all the variables. Basically projections end up being SWAGs (Silly Wild Ass Guesses). Sales of EVs are still going up but slower than before.

[gounion]

Yeah, I get the projections issue. But that is always the problem with plans and projections. It is virtually impossible to factor in all the variables. Basically projections end up being SWAGs (Silly Wild Ass Guesses). Sales of EVs are still going up but slower than before.

Dude, financial “professionals” like Joe doesn’t want anyone to know that all these projections are, ARE just wild ass guesses. They want to pretend they’re worth their money, when they really aren’t.

As the technology advances, more people are going to want electric vehicles. Glenn and Joe may love paying a large part of their income to oil companies along with the Saudis and Russians, but the day I can tell them to take a hike will be a happy day indeed.

[ZoWie]

It is my understanding that SUVs replaced the station wagon because SUVs are classified as trucks. Making them subject to a different set of MPG regulations

Anything goes in California, I can't keep up. I believe you are correct though. When this market shift started, it was certainly to much bigger hatchback vehicles which were definitely considered light trucks. They were built on pickup truck frames and they had optional diesel engines. We're talking Ford Excursions here and something like 15 MPG. They were sold as a way to keep eating gas and not having to drive around in a subcompact. The power of contrary thinking. It worked a lot better when a fill up didn't run you $200. Maybe now that's why all car ads have people doing impossible things in the smaller less beefy vehicles. You know, where someone's flogging through a stream bed at 40 MPH, with those 2-second disclaimer subtitles that warn you that if you really try this you'll break your car and/or void your warranty. Or that broad who shows her wedding pictures on the side of a mountain by plugging in a video projector to the power takeoff on her dorky little car, when in the real world it couldn't get to the Academy screen brightness level on a home screen, let alone the whole mountain.

We're seeing the evolution of this trend. The vehicles that have taken over in suburbia are not trucks even if they might have the MPG rules for them. They're boring square vehicles for boring square people to haul their boring square kids to their boring square school and baseball practice. They fit perfectly into boring square lives. I love to get on it and speak my reply to all this via my exhaust system. Yeah, they probably have a file on me at Corporate by now.

[Number6]

Anything goes in California, I can't keep up. I believe you are correct though. When this market shift started, it was certainly to much bigger hatchback vehicles which were definitely considered light trucks. They were built on pickup truck frames and they had optional diesel engines. We're talking Ford Excursions here and something like 15 MPG. They were sold as a way to keep eating gas and not having to drive around in a subcompact. The power of contrary thinking. It worked a lot better when a fill up didn't run you $200. Maybe now that's why all car ads have people doing impossible things in the smaller less beefy vehicles. You know, where someone's flogging through a stream bed at 40 MPH, with those 2-second disclaimer subtitles that warn you that if you really try this you'll break your car and/or void your warranty. Or that broad who shows her wedding pictures on the side of a mountain by plugging in a video projector to the power takeoff on her dorky little car, when in the real world it couldn't get to the Academy screen brightness level on a home screen, let alone the whole mountain.

We're seeing the evolution of this trend. The vehicles that have taken over in suburbia are not trucks even if they might have the MPG rules for them. They're boring square vehicles for boring square people to haul their boring square kids to their boring square school and baseball practice. They fit perfectly into boring square lives. I love to get on it and speak my reply to all this via my exhaust system. Yeah, they probably have a file on me at Corporate by now.

I guess I must be one of those boring people. I own a 2007 Honda CR-V compact SUV and I doubt I'll ever buy a sedan again. BTW, my CR-V is still going strong after 17 years. I drove to Las Vegas and averaged 34 mpg. On the way back, I filled up at the Costco in Victorville and got 39 mpg.

The problem with electric vehicles is battery technology. Right now, the available batteries have limited range compared to a gas-powered vehicle. I've read a number of article of about new battery technology that will extend range to about 600 miles, batteries weighing have as much, and faster charging. Toyota is suppose to come out with their new battery around 2027 and if it does as it says I'll be interested in buying one.

[Glennfs]

I guess I must be one of those boring people. I own a 2007 Honda CR-V compact SUV and I doubt I'll ever buy a sedan again. BTW, my CR-V is still going strong after 17 years. I drove to Las Vegas and averaged 34 mpg. On the way back, I filled up at the Costco in Victorville and got 39 mpg.

The problem with electric vehicles is battery technology. Right now, the available batteries have limited range compared to a gas-powered vehicle. I've read a number of article of about new battery technology that will extend range to about 600 miles, batteries weighing have as much, and faster charging. Toyota is suppose to come out with their new battery around 2027 and if it does as it says I'll be interested in buying one.

Not only will they need a true 600 mile range they will need to recharge very quickly.

Years ago GoU had a great comment. It went along the lines that they need some sort of system where you pull in and swap out components. The way so many do with the gas for your grill.

Personally I still believe that a design where an air cooled 1100cc engine running a generator makes the most sense.
Very limited pollution and 75 or more mpg.

[gounion]

I guess I must be one of those boring people. I own a 2007 Honda CR-V compact SUV and I doubt I'll ever buy a sedan again. BTW, my CR-V is still going strong after 17 years. I drove to Las Vegas and averaged 34 mpg. On the way back, I filled up at the Costco in Victorville and got 39 mpg.

The problem with electric vehicles is battery technology. Right now, the available batteries have limited range compared to a gas-powered vehicle. I've read a number of article of about new battery technology that will extend range to about 600 miles, batteries weighing have as much, and faster charging. Toyota is suppose to come out with their new battery around 2027 and if it does as it says I'll be interested in buying one.

You do make a very good point. Say that they do fix the tech problems, as Toyota is claiming they can. Once that happens, anyone who buys a current EV will not be able to get ten cents for it. It will be worthless.

Of course, if I buy one, it won’t be for the resale value. I’ll pay cash, and will plan to keep it the rest of my life.

[ZoWie]

I doubt you're boring. The public gets what the public wants, and obviously it's what the public wants. The first wave, the oversize ones with the shitty specs, the ones that were always rolling over, were for guys for whom size matters in so many different ways. Now, the current generation of these are the new Volkswagens.

I know they get better mileage than the first generation of SUVs and are generally more practical, but they're not for me.

[Toonces]

I too, am an SUV driver. A 2014 Audi Q5.

It was an upgrade over my 2008 Ford Ranger. It was two-tone, white and rust. I was a few inches away from having a Flintstone car.

Like many of my auction purchases, I through a bid that if I got it, great, if not no big deal.

The Ranger was the same way too. I didn't expect to get it for what I got it for. Managed to sell it for more than I paid, though I did upgrade the interior. I miss its versatility, but that's about the only thing I miss. Only thing now is that I'm not sure I can go back to non-luxury vehicles. Maybe fate will see to it to get me a hybrid Audi. All electric aren't necessarily practical in Canada. It gets cold and everything is far apart. Though, if you live in the city it can work fine.

[Number6]

I doubt you're boring. The public gets what the public wants, and obviously it's what the public wants. The first wave, the oversize ones with the shitty specs, the ones that were always rolling over, were for guys for whom size matters in so many different ways. Now, the current generation of these are the new Volkswagens.

I know they get better mileage than the first generation of SUVs and are generally more practical, but they're not for me.

[/quote]
Actually, I am a bit boring so much so that I bore myself.

I think the first SUV I saw was the Ford Bronco and my younger brother owned on in the late 80s. I never thought much about SUVs until I had to replace my 1996 LHS in 2007. A friend of mine owned an older CR-V and traded it in for a new on in 2007. I took a look at it and I was impressed so I went to two dealers and test drove one. I had been looking at sedans but after the test drive I was sold on the CR-V. I have a four bowling ball bag and it's easier to get it into the back of the CR-V than it was in the LHS. I do like the amount of cargo space it has and last year I drove to Reno for a bowling tournament and he also had a four bowling ball bag and suitcase and I was able to get everything in it and nothing in the cargo area was above the top of the back seats.

Like you said about the first wave of SUVs, the first wave of EVs haven't been that great but they're getting better. There's a lot of competition worldwide on improving batteries so in the next few years we should be seeing longer ranges for them. Once the batteries get to the point where they can go 500 miles between charges and vastly increased number of charging stations then EV will quickly outpace gas powered vehicles.

[gounion]

I've never really liked sedans, even when I was younger, I felt you had to climb up out of them. Haven't owned one for thirty years. I owned a pickup - my first vehicle I bought new - and since we've had vans or small SUVs - I've owned Explorers and and Edge. Well, those were company lease cars. A van was better for my work, but Ford stopped making the Windstar so, because of all the gear I had to carry, I went to the SUVs. I much prefer the room of them. My wife prefers the van - her knees make it difficult for her to get in and out of cars. I don't see any sedans of any sort in our future. I keep thinking about that Lincoln Corsair...

[JoeMemphis]

I too, am an SUV driver. A 2014 Audi Q5.

It was an upgrade over my 2008 Ford Ranger. It was two-tone, white and rust. I was a few inches away from having a Flintstone car.

Like many of my auction purchases, I through a bid that if I got it, great, if not no big deal.

The Ranger was the same way too. I didn't expect to get it for what I got it for. Managed to sell it for more than I paid, though I did upgrade the interior. I miss its versatility, but that's about the only thing I miss. Only thing now is that I'm not sure I can go back to non-luxury vehicles. Maybe fate will see to it to get me a hybrid Audi. All electric aren't necessarily practical in Canada. It gets cold and everything is far apart. Though, if you live in the city it can work fine.

First vehicle I owned was a 1964 Chevy S4 pickup. My grandfather bought it brand new. I have cousins who learned to drive on that truck. 3 speed on the column. In the south, lots of folks drive trucks. They are by far the most versatile vehicle especially the newer ones. They ride almost as good as a car. I have owned one car and several SUVs and crossovers but I have never been quite as comfortable as I am in a truck.

[ZoWie]

You wouldn't like my ride. It's not like the Lotus where the preferred means of getting out of it is to fall out the door onto the road, then pick yourself up, but sometimes it's close.

We can agree to disagree on vehicles. I've always considered them a statement about who I am rather than a means of getting to and from the store, so I'm weird, as you already knew.

I don't judge people by what they drive. That's for Republicans.

I made a big mistake dissing small SUVs. My wife wants one, and I told her that it was well suited to what her needs are in a car. They'll suit most people just fine.

The only thing that doesn't float my boat about the whole situation is not the style of vehicle, it's how they're all identical to the point where I have to look at the mfr's logo to see who made it. They used to call me a conforming non conformist, but that was when nonconformity was visible at all, and when one look distinguished a Ford from a Chevy from a Toyota. Now we're all the same baked bean.

[gounion]

You wouldn't like my ride. It's not like the Lotus where the preferred means of getting out of it is to fall out the door onto the road, then pick yourself up, but sometimes it's close.

We can agree to disagree on vehicles. I've always considered them a statement about who I am rather than a means of getting to and from the store, so I'm weird, as you already knew.

I don't judge people by what they drive. That's for Republicans.

I made a big mistake dissing small SUVs. My wife wants one, and I told her that it was well suited to what her needs are in a car. They'll suit most people just fine.

The only thing that doesn't float my boat about the whole situation is not the style of vehicle, it's how they're all identical to the point where I have to look at the mfr's logo to see who made it. They used to call me a conforming non conformist, but that was when nonconformity was visible at all, and when one look distinguished a Ford from a Chevy from a Toyota. Now we're all the same baked bean.

Hey, I get'cha, man. I used to LOVE cars when I was a teen and young man. It was sooo important to me. I guess after I started traveling for a living, cars started JUST meaning transportation to me, and nothing else. So it was what it did that mattered to me. I'm pretty happy with the luxury in my high-end Explorer and Pacifica. I think I'd like to move up to the Lincoln for the power lift gate and extra doodads inside. I'm certainly a gadget and electronics lover.

[Number6]

For a lot of people, cars represent their perceived status symbol. For others, it's about practicability. If you're in a professional, high-paying occupation it's expected that you would drive a BMW, Lexus, Mercedes, or other similar high status car. Often, will own an expensive car to give the impression they're rich or successful. For me, it doesn't matter what people think of my car because I'm the one who owns and drives it, not them.

[Glennfs]

First vehicle I owned was a 1964 Chevy S4 pickup. My grandfather bought it brand new. I have cousins who learned to drive on that truck. 3 speed on the column. In the south, lots of folks drive trucks. They are by far the most versatile vehicle especially the newer ones. They ride almost as good as a car. I have owned one car and several SUVs and crossovers but I have never been quite as comfortable as I am in a truck.

59 pink Buick LeSabre aka the pink panther

[gounion]

My dad really liked early 50’s Chevy pickups. When I was a teen, we had THREE of them, I think two 53’s and a 54. All primer gray. My dad and I were the only one that could set the choke right to start them without flooding them.

He didn’t pay more than a hundred dollars for any of them.

Anyone remember what the round pedal on the far right was for? No, Joe, not calling you a liar. Don’t think anyone would brag about having one of those trucks, although I have a soft spot for them, for sure.