Anybody watching...

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Ike Bana
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Anybody watching...

Post by Ike Bana »

Episode One Ken Burns, "Country Music"?

It's pretty darn good.

ap215
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Re: Anybody watching...

Post by ap215 »

Checking it out now good job by PBS.

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ProfessorX
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Re: Anybody watching...

Post by ProfessorX »

[BBvideo 425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB-5gqsX4TM[/BBvideo]

The times in my life I listened to country music, it invariably was because I had no choice. It was all there was on the radio.

I'll leave it at that.

I did become a Dixie Chicks fan, when everybody else said they should no longer be played on the radio, I started listening. I'm like that.
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ProfessorX
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Re: Anybody watching...

Post by ProfessorX »

I'll just drop this here.

Lil Nas X isn’t an anomaly — black people have always been a part of country music
The myth of the all-white American West contributes to the erasure of black cowboys, musicians, and settlers.
https://www.vox.com/the-goods/2019/6/5/ ... MmIKTFQbPM" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

More than 50 years later, that perception still holds. Most things country-and-western, including cowboys, music, and fashion, are widely linked to white men, from John Wayne to Johnny Cash.

No moment in recent memory demonstrates this quite like the debates sparked by the wildly successful single “Old Town Road,” recorded by African American rapper Lil Nas X, who describes the song as “country-trap.” In March, Billboard removed the track from the Hot Country chart (where it had broken the Top 20), explaining that it had been a mistake to categorize it as country.

This led Lil Nas X supporters to argue that Billboard’s move stemmed from either racial bias or bias against rap music. Country-pop songs have been staples on country charts for decades, but “country-trap,” “hick-hop,” and “hip-haw,” as rap-country blends have been nicknamed, have yet to become standard in the genre. Since some fans blame this on anti-blackness, Billboard’s decision to pull “Old Town Road” from the country charts has raised questions about the purpose of musical genres and the historic exclusion of African Americans from country music.

“When one understands that ‘country’ music is a marketing genre and that black country people are a culture, one begins to peel away the layers of perception and the definitions of who should be playing a certain type of music and why,” Dom Flemons, the neotraditional country musician known as the American Songster, told me.

[snip]

The racial segregation of musical genres would also perpetuate the idea that African Americans played no role in country-and-western customs. Still, the black influence on these practices lives on through the black rodeo, the black musicians recording country music today, and the millions of African Americans who remain connected to their country roots.

[snip][end]

Long article ... as usual, like most stuff from Vox, a good read.
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Ike Bana
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Re: Anybody watching...

Post by Ike Bana »

I figured we would see something like this.

Did you watch episode one? Try watching episode one.

Ken Burns did this, as he has done in all his work, to tell a story. Some will find fault in the story telling no matter how accurate the story telling. We will hear how he's less focused in this or that than he should be. We will hear how he's excusing things and minimizing things. We heard it about it with "Unforgivable Blackness." We heard about it with "Baseball." We heard about it with "The Central Park Five." where Burns was accused of focusing too much on problems with local cops and prosecutors and not enough on "institutional racism." :roll: We heard about it with "The Vietnam War." Everybody's got a fucking beef with something.

So far he's telling the story.

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ProfessorX
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Re: Anybody watching...

Post by ProfessorX »

Yeah. BTW, I like a lot of his work.

I think he's an interesting documentarian, and a good storyteller, and I've really liked some of his series, particularly the ones on National Parks.

He tends to avoid controversy, isn't a firebrand like Michael Moore, although he's in his personal life a Obama-loving Democrat. And that's fine, not every documentarian has to be focused on jousting. Some of the best work in doing documentary is "just" storytelling. I do like his ability to get into the hidden nooks and crannies of some parts of American history - he has a talent for it.

So, all I will say is no I'm not watching this series, as I don't particularly like country music (maybe what I said above gave a hint), so I'm not THAT interested in its history. Maybe a bit by Johnny Cash, but never been that big a fan.

Not a criticism of him, just a disinterest in the subject.

You asked.
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Ike Bana
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Re: Anybody watching...

Post by Ike Bana »

I'm not a particularly big country music fan either, but as everything that Burns does...its about way more than the title subject. If you're not interested, you're not.

So that's it regarding Lil Naz X...whoever TF that might be. I suspect I listen to less hip-hop etc., than you listen to country music.

I prefer just a little more instrumental virtuosity than I can get out of the hip-hop/rap genre.

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carmenjonze
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Re: Anybody watching...

Post by carmenjonze »

ProfessorX » Mon Sep 16, 2019 5:42 am wrote:I'll just drop this here.

Lil Nas X isn’t an anomaly — black people have always been a part of country music
The myth of the all-white American West contributes to the erasure of black cowboys, musicians, and settlers.
https://www.vox.com/the-goods/2019/6/5/ ... MmIKTFQbPM" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

More than 50 years later, that perception still holds. Most things country-and-western, including cowboys, music, and fashion, are widely linked to white men, from John Wayne to Johnny Cash.

No moment in recent memory demonstrates this quite like the debates sparked by the wildly successful single “Old Town Road,” recorded by African American rapper Lil Nas X, who describes the song as “country-trap.” In March, Billboard removed the track from the Hot Country chart (where it had broken the Top 20), explaining that it had been a mistake to categorize it as country.

This led Lil Nas X supporters to argue that Billboard’s move stemmed from either racial bias or bias against rap music. Country-pop songs have been staples on country charts for decades, but “country-trap,” “hick-hop,” and “hip-haw,” as rap-country blends have been nicknamed, have yet to become standard in the genre. Since some fans blame this on anti-blackness, Billboard’s decision to pull “Old Town Road” from the country charts has raised questions about the purpose of musical genres and the historic exclusion of African Americans from country music.

“When one understands that ‘country’ music is a marketing genre and that black country people are a culture, one begins to peel away the layers of perception and the definitions of who should be playing a certain type of music and why,” Dom Flemons, the neotraditional country musician known as the American Songster, told me.

[snip]

The racial segregation of musical genres would also perpetuate the idea that African Americans played no role in country-and-western customs. Still, the black influence on these practices lives on through the black rodeo, the black musicians recording country music today, and the millions of African Americans who remain connected to their country roots.

[snip][end]

Long article ... as usual, like most stuff from Vox, a good read.
It's interesting that she starts it out with a quote from James Baldwin, a gay man, about cowboys. There were actually a few equally-big stories about "Old Town Road," one that it was taken off the country charts, then was remade with Billy Ray Cyrus (which had already occurred by the time this article was written). It went to no. 1. Then at the height of its popularity (or what might have seemed like it at the time), Lil Nas X came out as a gay man.

Later in the month, "Old Town Road" then became a record-setter staying the on Hot 100 singles chart, and he's put out a bunch of remixes, which helped it stay at no. 1
https://www.npr.org/2019/07/29/74620013 ... rt-history" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So country music is neither all white nor all hetero, either. There are other LGBQ country stars that have come out in recent years. Not sure of any out trans artists tmk, but it likely won't be long.

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carmenjonze
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Re: Anybody watching...

Post by carmenjonze »

Ike Bana » Mon Sep 16, 2019 8:03 am wrote:So that's it regarding Lil Naz X...whoever TF that might be.
Holds the record for longest running single on the Hot 100.
I prefer just a little more instrumental virtuosity than I can get out of the hip-hop/rap genre.
There are dozens of rap genres. If it's virtuosity you like, you might try trap and it's subgenres.

Much of it is based in orchestral and film score instrument samples.

Trap producers are walking encyclopedias of multiple genres, especially the Latin trap produceers.

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carmenjonze
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Re: Anybody watching...

Post by carmenjonze »

Ike Bana » Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:03 am wrote:We heard it about it with "Unforgivable Blackness." We heard about it with "Baseball." We heard about it with "The Central Park Five." where Burns was accused of focusing too much on problems with local cops and prosecutors and not enough on "institutional racism." :roll:


Yes, mentions of "institutional racism" don't sell box sets to certain sensitive crowds, do they. :problem:

Anyway, everybody's a critic. No doubt he's used to it by now.

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Re: Anybody watching...

Post by marindem01 »

I've never been a fan of Country Music. Gail is going to watch it, but I will not. To many years of having to listen to twanging guitars and bad yodelling.

I do remember when "Little Dollie Parton" was with Porter Wagner and the Wagoners. I also have memory of Wagner having a Square Dance Troop as part of his show and there was an African-American Couple were part of that troop. Which was almost unheard of in the South of the 1950's -1970's.

On the whole though, I just never got the music.
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Ike Bana
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Re: Anybody watching...

Post by Ike Bana »

carmenjonze » Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:14 am wrote:
So country music is neither all white nor all hetero, either. There are other LGBQ country stars that have come out in recent years. Not sure of any out trans artists tmk, but it likely won't be long.
I typically don't spend a whole lot of time or energy focused on sexual orientation or gender related ideation when I'm listening to an artist creating a good piece of music. If that makes me some sort of alt-white Confederate in one or more of your communities I guess I'm stuck with it.

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carmenjonze
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Re: Anybody watching...

Post by carmenjonze »

marindem01 » Mon Sep 16, 2019 8:33 am wrote:I've never been a fan of Country Music. Gail is going to watch it, but I will not. To many years of having to listen to twanging guitars and bad yodelling.

I do remember when "Little Dollie Parton" was with Porter Wagner and the Wagoners. I also have memory of Wagner having a Square Dance Troop as part of his show and there was an African-American Couple were part of that troop. Which was almost unheard of in the South of the 1950's -1970's.

On the whole though, I just never got the music.
I like classic country, Dolly + Porter and earlier. I suppose Barbara Mandrell counts, I really dug her. And also some of what was called New Country, or which KD Lang, Lyle Lovett. And I know it's rock but I guess it's to ProfX's point about these arbitrary genres....anything from Sun Records.

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carmenjonze
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Re: Anybody watching...

Post by carmenjonze »

Ike Bana » Mon Sep 16, 2019 8:42 am wrote:
I typically don't spend a whole lot of time or energy focused on sexual orientation or gender related ideation when I'm listening to an artist creating a good piece of music.
The comment wasn't directed at you so just relax.
If that makes me some sort of alt-white Confederate in one or more of your communities I guess I'm stuck with it.
We belong to several of the same communities.

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Ike Bana
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Re: Anybody watching...

Post by Ike Bana »

carmenjonze » Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:50 am wrote:
The comment wasn't directed at you so just relax.



We belong to several of the same communities.
I'm always relaxed.

No, we don't.

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carmenjonze
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Re: Anybody watching...

Post by carmenjonze »

ProfessorX » Mon Sep 16, 2019 4:27 am wrote:[BBvideo 425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB-5gqsX4TM[/BBvideo]

The times in my life I listened to country music, it invariably was because I had no choice. It was all there was on the radio.

I'll leave it at that.

I did become a Dixie Chicks fan, when everybody else said they should no longer be played on the radio, I started listening. I'm like that.
k.d. lang went through something similar in the 90s, compounded by being out-lesbian.

I like the way she wears it...she opened a lot of doors across genres.

This was 1993, which made a few waves. It was pretty cute

Image

She might have still been banned from the radio at that point (actually for being a vegetarian.) I'm not at PETA fan, never was, but one gets the sense it wasn't just the PETA bit.
https://www.apnews.com/c43a3e1d722537ad396d67d45bc870ee" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Anyway, she's fun. And can sing her tail off.

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carmenjonze
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Re: Anybody watching...

Post by carmenjonze »

Ike Bana » Mon Sep 16, 2019 8:57 am wrote:
I'm always relaxed.
Donald Trump has the perfect temperament.
No, we don't.
Yeah, we do.

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Ike Bana
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Re: Anybody watching...

Post by Ike Bana »

If you think trump is relaxed, you have the assessment skills of an organic carrot.

He looks so relaxed, meantime the stomach acid are eating through his shoes.

You're a member of those narrow focused, agenda driven, sub-communiities.

See...I dont give a shit how many women Nicholson or Jagger have bedded, or their objectification problems. Unless it comes out that they raped or molested somebody...we're all adults. And I very much appreciate their performances.

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carmenjonze
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Re: Anybody watching...

Post by carmenjonze »

Ike Bana » Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:22 am wrote:If you think trump is relaxed, you have the assessment skills of an organic carrot.
I guess you missed this?

[BBvideo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_etUuJIlPD8[/BBvideo]
You're a member of those narrow focused, agenda driven, sub-communiities.
You learned something new today about both hiphop and country. I'm not a member of a sub- anything.

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carmenjonze
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Re: Anybody watching...

Post by carmenjonze »

Ike Bana » Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:22 am wrote:See...I dont give a shit how many women Nicholson or Jagger have bedded
Give a shit, or don't.

However, other people do care about artists who have same-sex partners, are gay-married, have nontraditional same-sex headed families, and such. There are people who care enough to boycott them and send them death threats because of it.

The social resentments of 10-year old emotional development in adult bodies.

There are others who support those artists, especially if we're into the genres.

Stop calling the cops on us.

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carmenjonze
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Re: Anybody watching...

Post by carmenjonze »

9 Country Artists Who’ve Come Out as Gay - Taste of Country
Ty Herndon
The "Living in the Moment" hitmaker came out to Entertainment Tonight in November 2014 and since then he's been a real leader in the LGBTQ community, especially in Nashville. Herndon's annual Concert for Love and Acceptance has grown each year to become a truly star-studded event (in 2019 Daughtry, Hunter Hayes and Gavin DeGraw performed) that also brings attention to at-risk youth and acceptance. Most recently he's started switching the pronouns in his biggest hit songs to be more LGBTQ appropriate.

Brandi Carlile
Brandi Carlile was an under-appreciated Americana star before her Grammy night in 2019. "The Joke" singer is recognized for her powerful voice, sharp lyrics and willingness to deliver a message in song. In 2012 she married Catherine Shepherd and together they have two children.

Shane McAnally
Shane McAnally is one of the most trusted songwriters in Nashville, having penned dozens of songs for top-tier country artists and won awards for hits like "Follow Your Arrow" and albums like Sam Hunt's Montevallo. He's closely associated with Kacey Musgraves, but in recent years has opened his own publishing company where he helps new artists like Walker Hayes. Kenny Chesney, Lady Antebellum and the Band Perry are others he's written hits for, and in 2019 he starred in an NBC series called Songland. He and partner Michael Baum were legally married in 2017. They have two children together.

Brandy Clark
Brandy Clark keeps the details of her private life private, but has in some interviews talked about being gay in country music and how that's affected her career. She's beloved as one of Nashville's most talented songwriters, having written for Kacey Musgraves, Miranda Lambert and her own heralded studio albums. "Girl Next Door" is her lone radio hit, reaching Top 40 in 2016.
More in link.

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Ike Bana
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Re: Anybody watching...

Post by Ike Bana »

carmenjonze » Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:41 am wrote:
Give a shit, or don't.

However, other people do care about artists who have same-sex partners, are gay-married, have nontraditional same-sex headed families, and such. There are people who care enough to boycott them and send them death threats because of it.

The social resentments of 10-year old emotional development in adult bodies.

There are others who support those artists, especially if we're into the genres.
See you can't have a discussion without extending that discussion into areas that we not part of the discussion. But I get it...way back in those days (like with most of us if everybody would just fucking admit it), it was so rarely about you. So today, right now, its gonna be good and goddamn well all about you...all the time.

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carmenjonze
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Re: Anybody watching...

Post by carmenjonze »

Ike Bana » Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:54 am wrote:See you can't have a discussion without extending that discussion into areas that we not part of the discussion.
I don't care if you don't like my posts. There's not one thing I've said here that's off-topic.
I get it...
:lol:

Yeah, keep guessing.

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Ike Bana
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Re: Anybody watching...

Post by Ike Bana »

Hey everybody! It's carmen the queen of de-nial. C'mon carmen, you know I'm right. Theres no shame in it.

Mine were such narcissists they wouldn't know how either of their kids were feeling if it bit them on their Jewish heinies.
Last edited by Ike Bana on Mon Sep 16, 2019 1:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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carmenjonze
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Re: Anybody watching...

Post by carmenjonze »

Ike Bana » Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:18 am wrote:Hey everybody! It's carmen the queen of de-nial.
You are extending the discussion into areas that are not part of the discussion.

I am not the discussion. Country and the Ken Burns docu is the discussion.

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