Harris/Buttigieg 2024???

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gounion
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Harris/Buttigieg 2024???

Post by gounion »

Interesting Op/Ed via CNN:
The next presidential election is three years away. Recent reports about early concern over whether President Joe Biden will run for reelection in 2024 and about tension between potential 2024 rivals, Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg and Vice President Kamala Harris are, to some extent, standard Washington gossip that can be safely ignored. Still, there may be something more than that.

Buttigieg is clearly very ambitious, ran an impressive presidential campaign in 2020 and has only strengthened his political skills since then. Harris, as the vice president, is a leading contender to be the face of the post-Joe Biden Democratic Party. Each may see the other as standing in their way as 2024 approaches. This is particularly important because the 79-year-old Biden, despite wisely sending signals that he will seek reelection in 2024, may decide that he doesn't want to run three years from now.

If Biden does run, as an incumbent, he has an advantage. But if he chooses not to, that doesn't mean Democrats are doomed.

A primary campaign between Harris and Buttigieg could pit two key Democratic constituencies against each other: African Americans, particularly African American women, and LGBTQ voters. The impact of that fight would be even worse if it began in 2023 and took over the second half of Biden's current term.

Fortunately, this is a problem that can be easily solved without either politician having to give up anything lasting. Harris and Buttigieg instead could agree that, if Biden does not run again, they would run together in 2024, with Harris the nominee for president and Buttigieg for vice-president. This could put an end to whatever feuding exists between them now, while giving the Democratic Party a very strong ticket in 2024 that would seem like a natural continuation of Biden's first term.

A Harris-Buttigieg ticket would showcase two dynamic politicians and represent the breadth and diversity of the Democratic Party, and indeed the whole country, while not veering too far left and alienating key swing voters who Biden won in 2020.

This ticket would be balanced with regards to geography: Harris is unmistakably Californian while Buttigieg is from Indiana, and brings with him a deep understanding of the Midwest.

Harris would be 60 years old on Election Day 2024, while Buttigieg would be 42, so there would be generational balance there as well. Both nominees represent important Democratic Party constituencies -- Harris is an African American and Asian American woman, while Buttigieg is a gay man. This would help mobilize important parts of the Democratic base. However, both politicians are essentially moderates, so it would be hard for the Republican Party to effectively tar them as radicals, socialists or anything like that -- something they would undoubtedly try to do. During, and since, the 2020 election, the right wing has tried to paint Harris as being on the far left, but that attack never got much traction.

A Harris-Buttigieg ticket would also have a fair amount of star power. Although Harris did very poorly when she ran for president in 2020, we have seen glimpses of what she can be, including the first presidential debate of the primary season when she landed some very effective attacks on Biden. Later, during the vice-presidential debate, she more than held her own against a very polished Mike Pence. It's also visible in the easy and strong rapport she has with many voters. Buttigieg has shined in recent months, as well during the 2020 general election, due to his media skills, fast wit and sharp intellect.
I think such a ticket would be very dynamic and strong. Of course, people like Glenn will call them both extreme far-left socialists, but If Ronald Reagan himself ran as a Dem, that's why Glenn would be calling him, too.

But the reality is, he can't name anything far-left about them, as he knows NOTHING of their actual stances or, in Harris' case, their voting records.
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sam lefthand
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Re: Harris/Buttigieg 2024???

Post by sam lefthand »

I don't see that kind of rapport between Harris and Buttigieg.

However I saw that rapport between Biden and Harris from the beginning. I knew and talked here about them working together dating clear back to that debate where Harris attacked Biden on the busing issue to insulate him from attacks about it later on. They did that on purpose, Biden was in on his own attack, it was friendly fire. Being attacked that way allowed him to say what he needed to say early to remove that liability so he could go forward to win the South Carolina primary.

They worked together for that rest of the election cycle. She dropped out at just the right time to be picked up later at just the right time. I knew Biden was going to pick Harris for VP long before he did that and said so here.

:|

But I don't see that happening with Harris and Buttigieg.
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Re: Harris/Buttigieg 2024???

Post by gounion »

sam lefthand wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:27 pm I don't see that kind of rapport between Harris and Buttigieg.

However I saw that rapport between Biden and Harris from the beginning. I knew and talked here about them working together dating clear back to that debate where Harris attacked Biden on the busing issue to insulate him from attacks about it later on. They did that on purpose, Biden was in on his own attack, it was friendly fire. Being attacked that way allowed him to say what he needed to say early to remove that liability so he could go forward to win the South Carolina primary.

They worked together for that rest of the election cycle. She dropped out at just the right time to be picked up later at just the right time. I knew Biden was going to pick Harris for VP long before he did that and said so here.

:|

But I don't see that happening with Harris and Buttigieg.
Sam, this is POLITICS. Rapport not required. While some politicians truly hate each other, it doesn't mean they won't change if it's politically expedient. If it would be a strong ticket, they'll be HAPPY to work together!

I recall Kennedy and Johnson. Okay, not personally, I was too young. But this is politics, man! They don't have to be friends! In DC, they say if you want a friend, get a dog.

We'll see what happens. My take is it'd be strong ticket.
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carmenjonze
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Re: Harris/Buttigieg 2024???

Post by carmenjonze »

I wasn't the biggest fan of Mayor Pete during the 2020 primaries, but that was then. If this were the ticket I would gladly vote for it.
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Re: Harris/Buttigieg 2024???

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carmenjonze wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 6:44 pm I wasn't the biggest fan of Mayor Pete during the 2020 primaries, but that was then. If this were the ticket I would gladly vote for it.
I like it, thanks Gounion for the thread.

It might be the answer given Kamala, easily more qualified than any living repub and more qualified than 99% of democrats, along with the Gay Mayor, will bring out the cons because they hate these two it will also bring out the patriots aka non cons.

But please have them make marijuana legalization a big part of their campaign.

But I would LOVE to have a BLACK WOMAN and a GAY MAN as our candidates and watch the haters like those here have apoplexy attacks!

Just saw the FUCKING PIG from fox asking Jen Psaki why is Biden spending time with his family over thanksgiving while people are struggling.

HARD SLAP needed NOW :twisted:
I sigh in your general direction.
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ProfX
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Re: Harris/Buttigieg 2024???

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Biden said he might not run again in 2024. Look he ain't a spring chicken. But Trump who often talks about being people being old and senile, then goes on to brag he knows what a TV looks like and what its name is, well he's no spring chicken either.

I don't know, other than "musing" about it, that he's said that "officially".

It's happened ... for different reasons ... because of Vietnam, Johnson refused to run for a 2nd term in '68. I only will note that for Ds that didn't work out well. I think this Nixon fella got elected.

It is way too early to be thinking about Harris' running mate. If, if, if.

If ya wanna prepare for the future, worry more about those 2022 midterms, and what we can do to prevent the Apocalypse. Biden will have some rough years of the last of his first term if Rs control both chambers of Congress. That my crystal ball can see.
"Don't believe every quote attributed to people on the Internet" -- Abraham Lincoln :D
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Re: Harris/Buttigieg 2024???

Post by gounion »

ProfX wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:43 am Biden said he might not run again in 2024. Look he ain't a spring chicken. But Trump who often talks about being people being old and senile, then goes on to brag he knows what a TV looks like and what its name is, well he's no spring chicken either.

I don't know, other than "musing" about it, that he's said that "officially".

It's happened ... for different reasons ... because of Vietnam, Johnson refused to run for a 2nd term in '68. I only will note that for Ds that didn't work out well. I think this Nixon fella got elected.

It is way too early to be thinking about Harris' running mate. If, if, if.

If ya wanna prepare for the future, worry more about those 2022 midterms, and what we can do to prevent the Apocalypse. Biden will have some rough years of the last of his first term if Rs control both chambers of Congress. That my crystal ball can see.
It's a message board. Never too early to speculate! It's what we do! :lol: :lol: :lol:
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ProfX
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Re: Harris/Buttigieg 2024???

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Oh I get that. I'm just saying, if I were to focus worrying about the future, there's a nearer political future that's closer, and ... worrisome.

If the Rs take control of both chambers of Congress in 2022, there's going to be a hard time for whatever D is running in 2024.

If Trump wins the R nomination, and the presidency, again, in 2024... things I think are extremely unlikely but then my crystal ball cracked in 2016, too ... well, Kazakhstan is real nice this time of year. :D
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sam lefthand
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Re: Harris/Buttigieg 2024???

Post by sam lefthand »

Libertas wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 7:33 pm I like it, thanks Gounion for the thread.

It might be the answer given Kamala, easily more qualified than any living repub and more qualified than 99% of democrats, along with the Gay Mayor, will bring out the cons because they hate these two it will also bring out the patriots aka non cons.

But please have them make marijuana legalization a big part of their campaign.

But I would LOVE to have a BLACK WOMAN and a GAY MAN as our candidates and watch the haters like those here have apoplexy attacks!

Just saw the FUCKING PIG from fox asking Jen Psaki why is Biden spending time with his family over thanksgiving while people are struggling.

HARD SLAP needed NOW :twisted:
Needs a theme song:

:D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcSlcNfThUA
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carmenjonze
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Re: Harris/Buttigieg 2024???

Post by carmenjonze »

Libertas wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 7:33 pm I like it, thanks Gounion for the thread.

It might be the answer given Kamala, easily more qualified than any living repub and more qualified than 99% of democrats, along with the Gay Mayor, will bring out the cons because they hate these two it will also bring out the patriots aka non cons.

But please have them make marijuana legalization a big part of their campaign.

But I would LOVE to have a BLACK WOMAN and a GAY MAN as our candidates and watch the haters like those here have apoplexy attacks!

Just saw the FUCKING PIG from fox asking Jen Psaki why is Biden spending time with his family over thanksgiving while people are struggling.

HARD SLAP needed NOW :twisted:
Haha well, a liberal Black woman and liberal gay man, anyway.

I could live with these two’s policies. Kamala’s, especially, since I already have. :)
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Re: Harris/Buttigieg 2024???

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If Kamala Harris is on the ballot the democratic party will lose.
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Re: Harris/Buttigieg 2024???

Post by Glennfs »

gounion wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:06 pm Interesting Op/Ed via CNN:



I think such a ticket would be very dynamic and strong. Of course, people like Glenn will call them both extreme far-left socialists, but If Ronald Reagan himself ran as a Dem, that's why Glenn would be calling him, too.

But the reality is, he can't name anything far-left about them, as he knows NOTHING of their actual stances or, in Harris' case, their voting records.
Actually you are half right and for you that is an improvement. Mayor Pete is doing an excellent job and as it stands now would be an asset to any democratic party ticket.
As for Harris she has pretty much shown herself to be on par with Quayle and Gore pretty much an incompetent boob.

As for our country's 9th greatest president if all time you are doing some self projecting as if Reagan were running as Democrat you would be his biggest supporter. Former union president and FDR supporter would be your mantra.
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Re: Harris/Buttigieg 2024???

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Glennfs wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:30 am Actually you are half right and for you that is an improvement. Mayor Pete is doing an excellent job and as it stands now would be an asset to any democratic party ticket.
As for Harris she has pretty much shown herself to be on par with Quayle and Gore pretty much an incompetent boob.

As for our country's 9th greatest president if all time you are doing some self projecting as if Reagan were running as Democrat you would be his biggest supporter. Former union president and FDR supporter would be your mantra.
Don't worry, if Pete ran for the top of the ticket, you would call him an Anti-American far-left socialist.
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Re: Harris/Buttigieg 2024???

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Glennfs wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:24 am If Kamala Harris is on the ballot the democratic party will lose.
There is no earthly way Joe Biden would drop her from the VP slot in 2024, if he runs again.

There's very few calls to drop her from the ticket, other than ... the lunatic fringe.
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Re: Harris/Buttigieg 2024???

Post by carmenjonze »

Glennfs wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:24 am If Kamala Harris is on the ballot the democratic party will lose.
:lol: why in the world should anyone take political advice about Kamala Harris from a WS?
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Re: Harris/Buttigieg 2024???

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Glennfs wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:24 am If Kamala Harris is on the ballot the democratic party will lose.
If she's at the top of the Presidential ticket I think she would be fortunate to win all of the blue states. Her performance during the last primary was dismal and she would be her own worst enemy when it comes to drawing undecided voters in swing states. Her likeability is on par with Hillary Clinton's.

Mayor Pete would be a strong Presidential candidate and draw from a much wider spectrum of voters. Especially against the current crop of Republicans with national recognition.
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Re: Harris/Buttigieg 2024???

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Ted wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 8:44 am If she's at the top of the Presidential ticket I think she would be fortunate to win all of the blue states. Her performance during the last primary was dismal and she would be her own worst enemy when it comes to drawing undecided voters in swing states. Her likeability is on par with Hillary Clinton's.
The GOP has worked hard to demonize women like Harris. They don't like strong women.
Mayor Pete would be a strong Presidential candidate and draw from a much wider spectrum of voters. Especially against the current crop of Republicans with national recognition.
The GOP will go insane about Pete. The Christian right would freak about a demon gay running.
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Re: Harris/Buttigieg 2024???gs like, “Joe and the Ho

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Ted wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 8:44 am Her likeability is on par with Hillary Clinton's.
Hillary Clinton won the popular vote by over 3 million. The GOP constantly goes after female liberal politicians with sexist attacks. The Republicans currently have signs that say things like, “Joe and the Ho gotta go.” Etc.
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ProfX
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Re: Harris/Buttigieg 2024???

Post by ProfX »

Some interesting thoughts and analysis here.

What’s going on with Kamala’s poll numbers?
https://www.politico.com/newsletters/wo ... ers-495086

Crazy it is - and remember, yes, it's one USAToday poll that has her at 28% approval rating - there are others, her average is elsewhere - but, yeah, her approval rating is below Dick Cheney's.

Come on, whatever you might think of her, I just think that's --- insane.

As to why, well, MHO, there's reasoned and balanced analysis in the interview even, if, Politico.
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Re: Harris/Buttigieg 2024???

Post by gounion »

Let’s be clear. There is no one on the Dems that GOP voters will ever vote for. Period. I don’t really care WHAT they think of our candidate. What the GOP needs to worry about is what the petulant Trump will do if he’s not in the ballot. The worry they should have is that Trump voters will stay home.
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Re: Harris/Buttigieg 2024???

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One poll is one poll. Gotta wonder about USAToday's methods and sampling.

RCP shows her average approval (vs. disapproval) rating as not really being all that different now than it was in March. Underwater, big spread, but average is 40% favorable - 52% unfavorable. Those numbers are about the same as Biden's. IOW, she's not being esp. despised more than he is.

I find it f'n crazy Trump is in that same threshold (41 a - 51 d), but this is a dumb country. And polarized.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epoll ... -6690.html

Ya wanna know who's lower? Glance over to the right.

Kevin McCarthy - 29% approval
Mitch McConnell - 27% approval - 56% disapproval
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Re: Harris/Buttigieg 2024???gs like, “Joe and the Ho

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Drak wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:02 am Hillary Clinton won the popular vote by over 3 million. The GOP constantly goes after female liberal politicians with sexist attacks. The Republicans currently have signs that say things like, “Joe and the Ho gotta go.” Etc.
V.P. Harris might have similar results if she runs for President and doesn't learn from Hillary Clinton's mistakes.
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Drak
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Re: Harris/Buttigieg 2024???gs like, “Joe and the Hod

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Ted wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:56 am V.P. Harris might have similar results if she runs for President and doesn't learn from Hillary Clinton's mistakes.
The Biden admin has been quite successful. Their polling is the result of a conservative owned MSM pounding them 24/7 since the summer after the Afghanistan evac.

That said, what mistakes did Hillary make that Harris could learn from?
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Re: Harris/Buttigieg 2024???gs like, “Joe and the Hod

Post by Ted »

Drak wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:02 am The Biden admin has been quite successful. Their polling is the result of a conservative owned MSM pounding them 24/7 since the summer after the Afghanistan evac.

That said, what mistakes did Hillary make that Harris could learn from?
Campaigning - in person - heavily in blue states while virtually ignoring swing states.

Marginalizing opposing supporters/voters with a comment like, "basket of deplorables."

Failure to simplify her message in a way that connected with undecided voters.
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Re: Harris/Buttigieg 2024???gs like, “Joe and the Hod

Post by gounion »

Ted wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:31 am Campaigning - in person - heavily in blue states while virtually ignoring swing states.

Marginalizing opposing supporters/voters with a comment like, "basket of deplorables."

Failure to simplify her message in a way that connected with undecided voters.
Are you proud of the GOP messaging? “Lock her up”

Did you vote for Trump?
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