Racism in America and Randi Rhodes show today.

[Libertas]

Today I listened to Randi Rhodes defend herself after saying she "understood" the sentencing of Kim Potter, the cop who killed Daunte Wright.

She got emails from fans who were upset with her position and then a Black Woman called and tried to explain to her why white people cannot and do not see subtle racism most of the time.

Randi of course listened attentively for a while and then her narcissism kicked in and she started arguing.

As to this case, if the officers pulling him over did NOT know he had a warrant, then common sense dictates he was guilty of driving while Black.

Period.

Forget what happened AFTER he was pulled over, WHY was he pulled over? Air freshener on mirror, or driving while Black?

He could have turned out to be a serial killer who only killed white people because he hates them BUT they did NOT know that when THREE cops pulled him over for an AIR FRESHENER!

This is from wiki

They were on their way to a car wash.[19][22] Kimberly Potter was a passenger in a patrol car with a trainee officer who observed Wright's vehicle signaling a right turn while it was in a left-turning lane.[23] The trainee officer also noticed that the vehicle had an expired registration tag on its license plate and had an air freshener hanging from the car's rearview mirror, a violation of Minnesota state law.[

Now, since the Black kid is dead, we cant possibly assume ANY of that is true, unless we have been living in a cave. It is possible the ONLY thing he did wrong was have the air freshener, if that! I guess the expired tag could be proven. Other than that we will never know, will we.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Daunte_Wright

The only reason to run the plates is because he was Driving while Black.
The only reason to have THREE cops approach him is he was Driving while Black.

The only reason to somehow forget where your taser is vs your gun after 26 years is if you have an unreasonable fear of Black men (i.e. subtle and often not so subtle racism.) These weapons were not next to each other, one was on her left side and one was on her right and they had been that way her entire career. I do NOT think she wanted to kill him but I do think she was scared BECAUSE he is Black and he did try to get away.

For me, I learned a long time ago my opinion about what is and is not racism, subtle or otherwise, has little meaning or value if I am talking to anyone who is not white. Being white, and having NEVER not ONCE for even one MINUTE experienced it, I will always always always defer to the POC who has.

[bradman]

If they didn't know about the warrant, why would they attempt to arrest Daunte?

[ProfX]

Well, we just talked about this, but let me make it public and plain.

She was whitesplaining to a black caller, and it was not a good look. That's what bothered me the most about today's show.

Randi's said many wrong things. Look, I just don't do hero worship. All of us humans are flawed and are gonna make mistakes. There have been many things I disagreed with Randi on.

Today was another one of those days.

[Bludogdem]

If they didn't know about the warrant, why would they attempt to arrest Daunte?

He was pulled over because of expired tags. Ran the tags got the gun warrant.

[bradman]

He was pulled over because of expired tags. Ran the tags got the gun warrant.

Close, but no cookie.

The left turn signal was the tell that led to the stop. There's some confusion as to when they noticed the plates.

Tags are usually run but, (when they are on patrol, tags are constantly being run at random.) it's the drivers identification they want. That's when they came up with his record. A restraining order and warrant for his arrest.

[Libertas]

NO way of knowing why he was pulled over, the only other person witness to it is dead.

Cops lie all the time.

And if they called in the reason before he was pulled over, what was it again, a turn signal? Didnt even try to make the turn? Again we DONT KNOW

[bradman]

The facts that led up to the attempted arrest are pretty well known.

A rookie cop was being observed by his FTO. The rookie cop noticed someone with their left turn signal on, but wasn't changing lanes. It's a tell. It could be a honest mistake, or it could be the driver is impaired. That wasn't really proof enough that the driver wasn't impaired and wouldn't really deserve a pull over. But because of cop unions and people like MADD, some cities governing bodies threw in a sneaky little law. You can stop someone for as something as silly as a air freshener hanging from your mirror.... A pre textual stop*. That's what the rookie cop pulled him over for. In the mean time, with Daunte still sitting in the car, they finally came up with his name and ran it. It came back with a arrest warrant. According to the rule book set up for cops by governing bodies, the next step was the arrest. It was after Daunte was informed of the arrest that all hell broke lose.

*Both MADD and police unions support pre textual stops. One to get impaired drivers off the road, the other, well, they always pull the Timothy McVeigh card.

[Libertas]

We only know any of that because that is what the cops said, with the driver being DEAD there is NO way to know what actually happened.

Other than the video of the 26 yr veteran grabbing the wrong weapon, the weapon that has always been on one side of the other, so that excuse is bull.

She and the other cops had an unreasonable fear of Black men, the instant he struggled it was likely he would end up dead. If he had been white not only would have not been pulled over in all likelihood the cops would not have shot him in FEAR for their lives.

If there is a record of why the stop happened PRIOR to it happening like a recording to the station, fine, STILL the likelihood of them making this stop for a white person is almost nil.

WAIT what am I saying, NOTHING called into the station matters either because that could have been made up as well.

Too bad there is every reason to ASSUME the cops are lying, but there is. In most cases involving POC, this is simply the case. ONCE again a bunch of white people, us, discussing what we THINK might have happened, having to trust ONCE AGAIN the cops word since the suspect is DEAD, not knowing JACK SHIT about what it is like to be treated like this...sad.

[carmenjonze]

The facts that led up to the attempted arrest are pretty well known.

A rookie cop was being observed by his FTO. The rookie cop noticed someone with their left turn signal on, but wasn't changing lanes. It's a tell. It could be a honest mistake, or it could be the driver is impaired. That wasn't really proof enough that the driver wasn't impaired and wouldn't really deserve a pull over. But because of cop unions and people like MADD, some cities governing bodies threw in a sneaky little law. You can stop someone for as something as silly as a air freshener hanging from your mirror.... A pre textual stop*. That's what the rookie cop pulled him over for. In the mean time, with Daunte still sitting in the car, they finally came up with his name and ran it. It came back with a arrest warrant. According to the rule book set up for cops by governing bodies, the next step was the arrest. It was after Daunte was informed of the arrest that all hell broke lose.

*Both MADD and police unions support pre textual stops. One to get impaired drivers off the road, the other, well, they always pull the Timothy McVeigh card.

What's the Timothy McVeigh card?

[carmenjonze]

Listening to it, now. I listened to the Friday show on Saturday night and almost turned it off. But I rarely turn Randi off for stuff she says that I don't agree with, and there are things, occasionally.

I really don't need to hear the HRC/comedy show story anymore, but whatever. And her being a Bernie person, though I would not call her a berniebro. So she's a mixed bag on that, for me.

She's welcome to her opinions, including on Kim Potter, as is anyone. But anyone better be prepared to be disagreed with when telling us how we're supposed to feel about these shoot-first-ask-questions-later cops killing our kids month in and month out.

I agree with the OP that she did not think it through when the woman observing about Kim Potter's crying called in. Probably because I said the exact same thing the minute that footage of her crying hit the news; it's like oh god, karen's crying, again.

And then, as if by magic, she gets this lenient sentence. So we'll see what Randi has to say, now. Blah.

:problem:

[carmenjonze]

Ok yeah, just heard the Angela segment. Randi really doesn't get it as much as she insists she does.

This is such a typical, classic case of whitesplaining from somebody demanding to be considered a supposed ally. One thing I really think Randi does not understand is how many times Black listeners have had to give her the benefit of the doubt. She is farther along than most whites. But anything is an improvement and I do not think Randi understands this.

Lol I remember on the old RRMB when people had a g.d. fit when I would say that no, she is not a Black woman and a Black journalist.

I do not think she would like it if one of us was to say either seriously or in jest that we are Jewish women and Jewish journalists. Anyone saying that would be offensive as hell. Or if someone were to make the absurd statement that "we're all Jews, now." No, we are not all Jews now. Jews are still Jews, now. "We" are not all Black, now, sorry. The only reason to even bring this up was her drawing on her Jewish heritage to back up her position.

I just feel bad for Brett, who has to go into work tomorrow morning. He has to throw in with this crud to keep his job, or part ways.

[carmenjonze]

Well, we just talked about this, but let me make it public and plain.

She was whitesplaining to a black caller, and it was not a good look. That's what bothered me the most about today's show.

Randi's said many wrong things. Look, I just don't do hero worship. All of us humans are flawed and are gonna make mistakes. There have been many things I disagreed with Randi on.

Today was another one of those days.

Agreed.

Overall, it's not in dispute whether or not Randi is a good person. She is a good person who does really great and dedicated work in ways that most people don't.

It's not even in dispute whether or not she is "down." She is mostly "down." I think she should deal realistically why she's mostly down. Calling Angela "the racist" and accusing her of "racism" or of calling Randi "one of the good ones," really because she had a counterargument..this is such typical karen sh#t.

For us, these things can become a matter of life or death in a matter of milliseconds. This is the danger in dealing with overdefensive so-called allies. I think that she and most people in her position really do not understand why this is a danger, despite their self-absorbed protests.

[carmenjonze]

The facts that led up to the attempted arrest are pretty well known.

They may be relatively well-known. But where do YOU get YOUR facts from?

[carmenjonze]

Too bad there is every reason to ASSUME the cops are lying, but there is. In most cases involving POC, this is simply the case. ONCE again a bunch of white people, us, discussing what we THINK might have happened, having to trust ONCE AGAIN the cops word since the suspect is DEAD, not knowing JACK SHIT about what it is like to be treated like this...sad.

Person is dead, cop will probably not even serve a year for murdering him for no reason.

All these karens have to do is make a big show of crying. White-women tears work on the bradmans and the Judge Chu's, and it never, ever, fails.

Well..white cis-woman tears, anyway. Jury's still out on trans women's tears.

Our tears for our children, cousins, parents, aunts, uncles, collegues, peers, friends, ourselves...that's all just a joke, to them.

[ProfX]

So, the only thing I will point out is she borrowed the "Black woman and Black journalist" gig from fellow radio host Phil Hendrie, whose show gimmick was to sometimes have people call in which were in fact also him, pretending to be someone else, he would imitate a whole bunch of other folks and in essence essentially argue with himself. It was a mixture of comedy and commentary. Some of those people he would imitate became sort of stock characters. And so one of these people he pretended to be, a fake caller, would always call in to his show and identify as "a Black man and a Black journalist". (Phil is of course white, BTW we can debate his politics, I would call them centrist at best; I think this fake character was meant to be a jab at other personalities.) I mean, it was intended to be comedic/ironic: you could just say "Black journalist". Right? Randi, who used to also include a lot more comedy bits in her show back in the day, and knew Hendrie, borrowed this shtick. So that's what it really is.

Again, my issue is not with her position on Potter or the verdict. I don't completely agree, but heck, I can't think of a radio host for which this wasn't true.... but then I thought we lefties were not "Dittoheads". We don't just "ditto" everything our "leaders" say. I know I don't. Randi has made plenty of mistakes, my bigger problem is the corner she moved herself into when she started whitesplaining to the Black caller. BTW, she has a long history of talking over and down to callers. This is nothing new, and some of it again I blame on the guy she still says was her mentor: Neil Rogers. "Shock jock" Rogers also treated callers this way, but it was largely shtick/gimmick. MHO: it's shtick that doesn't work well in 2022, but anyway.

But she really totally was taking this stance with that caller that was so ... ugh. "I'm an ally and can't be criticized". Uh, look, Randi, if you're sincere about being an ally, that has to go with the territory. That caller was making some very good points, and you were whitesplaining them away. And no, the people criticizing you, right or wrong, are not the racists. And while I agree with you anti-Semitism is very real and very painful, experiencing it doesn't give you automatic insight into other kinds of racism.

Sorry. Not a good look. Just not.

[bradman]

What's the Timothy McVeigh card?

McVeigh was caught in what could be called a pre textual stop. He was pulled over for no tabs. They like trotting him out when trying to prove the need for such stops. They consider it a vital tool for catching the bad guys.
MAAD supports pre textual stops for basically the same reason,(although i see they are softening their stance.) only their bad guys are impaired drivers.

[gounion]

McVeigh was caught in what could be called a pre textual stop. He was pulled over for no tabs. They like trotting him out when trying to prove the need for such stops. They consider it a vital tool for catching the bad guys.
MAAD supports pre textual stops for basically the same reason,(although i see they are softening their stance.) only their bad guys are impaired drivers.

It's reasonable to stop someone who doesn't have vehicle tags.

It's NOT reasonable to stop someone because they have something hanging from their rear view mirror. Do you see the difference?

[ProfX]

Should note what's happened since the case.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Daunte_Wright

The killing of Daunte Wright led to several changes in policing policies in Brooklyn Center and elsewhere. In Brooklyn Center, the city council passed an ordinance in May 2021 named after Daunte Wright and Kobe Dimock-Heisler, another Black man who had been killed in an encounter with city police prior to Wright. The ordinance created unarmed traffic enforcement and community response teams, and it prohibited arrests or vehicle searches in certain traffic-related encounters. Wright's family believed that had the policy been in place when he was stopped by police, he would not have been killed.[154] In September 2021, Brooklyn Center officials announced a new policy to cite and release criminal offenders for misdemeanor and gross misdemeanor charges rather than take people into immediate custody. Under the policy, police officers would still be able to make an arrest if an offender posed a safety threat.[155] In December 2021, the city council passed a $1.3 million plan for alternative public safety programs, such as the use of unarmed workers to enforce nonmoving traffic violations and mental health response teams. $303,114 of the programs' budget came from eliminating three police officer positions.[156]

Local officials in Minnesota called for measures to better distinguish Tasers and firearms, as part of comprehensive police reform.[149] In August 2021, Minneapolis, Minnesota, police announced they would not make traffic stops for minor infractions, such as expired vehicle tabs or having objects hanging on mirrors.[157]

[snip][end]

Here's my main problem. It relates to a lot of these incidents. Was any level of force necessary to subdue him at that point? Even Taser-based nonlethal force? "But he was trying to get away Prof and there was a warrant on him". For argument's sake, let's say he started up the car and drove off.

At that point, they had his name, tag, address, and everything else, and there was no evidence he was a grave threat to anybody else in the community.

They also could have found him and nabbed him later. No?

[bradman]

It's reasonable to stop someone who doesn't have vehicle tags.

It's NOT reasonable to stop someone because they have something hanging from their rear view mirror. Do you see the difference?

Nowhere will you find me supporting pre textual stops.

It's reasonable to pull people over for expired tabs, yes. What is not reasonable is losing your rights just because you are in a car.

Pre textual stops should be cut way back, but not as far as the Sovereign Citizens would like to see.

[gounion]

Nowhere will you find me supporting pre textual stops.

It's reasonable to pull people over for expired tabs, yes. What is not reasonable is losing your rights just because you are in a car.

Pre textual stops should be cut way back, but not as far as the Sovereign Citizens would like to see.

He didn’t have expired tags. He had NO tags.

But yes, laws like air freshener stops is wrong.

[bradman]

He didn’t have expired tags. He had NO tags.

But yes, laws like air freshener stops is wrong.

Expired tags, NO tags. He was pulled over for a tag violation. Bundy's another one they like to trot out.

Nation wide, pre textual stops should basically be done away with and rebuilt to a tiny fraction of what they are now. It's after the stop that better probable cause is needed to search the car, or do what they can, supposedly, legally, do from there on in.

This'd be a start.......
viewtopic.php?p=16692#p16692

[gounion]

Expired tags, NO tags. He was pulled over for a tag violation.

Pre textual stops should basically be done away with and rebuilt to a tiny fraction of what it is now. (Nation wide) It's after the stop that better probable cause is needed to search the car, or do what they can, supposedly, legally, do from there on in.

This'd be a start.......
viewtopic.php?p=16692#p16692

There's a BIG difference. You have to have tags. I agree that expired tags isn't a good reason, because you can still ID the car. But without tags, you have no idea. Get it?

Again, I'm on board with doing away with the vast majority of pre-textual stops. But to pretend that no tags, which is what caught McVeigh, is the same is just wrong.

[bradman]

Should note what's happened since the case.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Daunte_Wright

The killing of Daunte Wright led to several changes in policing policies in Brooklyn Center and elsewhere. In Brooklyn Center, the city council passed an ordinance in May 2021 named after Daunte Wright and Kobe Dimock-Heisler, another Black man who had been killed in an encounter with city police prior to Wright. The ordinance created unarmed traffic enforcement and community response teams, and it prohibited arrests or vehicle searches in certain traffic-related encounters. Wright's family believed that had the policy been in place when he was stopped by police, he would not have been killed.[154] In September 2021, Brooklyn Center officials announced a new policy to cite and release criminal offenders for misdemeanor and gross misdemeanor charges rather than take people into immediate custody. Under the policy, police officers would still be able to make an arrest if an offender posed a safety threat.[155] In December 2021, the city council passed a $1.3 million plan for alternative public safety programs, such as the use of unarmed workers to enforce nonmoving traffic violations and mental health response teams. $303,114 of the programs' budget came from eliminating three police officer positions.[156]

Local officials in Minnesota called for measures to better distinguish Tasers and firearms, as part of comprehensive police reform.[149] In August 2021, Minneapolis, Minnesota, police announced they would not make traffic stops for minor infractions, such as expired vehicle tabs or having objects hanging on mirrors.[157]

[snip][end]

Here's my main problem. It relates to a lot of these incidents. Was any level of force necessary to subdue him at that point? Even Taser-based nonlethal force? "But he was trying to get away Prof and there was a warrant on him". For argument's sake, let's say he started up the car and drove off.

At that point, they had his name, tag, address, and everything else, and there was no evidence he was a grave threat to anybody else in the community.

They also could have found him and nabbed him later. No?

[bold]Yes, and some would have. In a situation like that some cops hang on to a belief that you don't let them re-enter a 2 thousand pound weapon and drive away. Some would have let them go and started a pursuit. (which is why they'd rather not have him re-enter the vehicle.) And some would have let him go and turned the paper work over to the detectives. It's up to the personal discretion of each officer. Some follow the letter of the law, some follow the spirit of the law. The rookie that pulled Daunte was following the letter of the law. But then, he was in a training session.

[bradman]

There's a BIG difference. You have to have tags. I agree that expired tags isn't a good reason, because you can still ID the car. But without tags, you have no idea. Get it?

Again, I'm on board with doing away with the vast majority of pre-textual stops. But to pretend that no tags, which is what caught McVeigh, is the same is just wrong.

Having no tabs is worse than having expired tabs, yes. And, both will get you pulled over.

Why are we getting stuck on tabs?

[edit]i think i get some of my confusion. Here, tags and tabs are the same thing. We call tags, plates. or license plates.

[gounion]

Having no tabs is worse than having expired tabs, yes. And, both will get you pulled over.

Why are we getting stuck on tabs?

[edit]i think i get some of the confusion. Here, tags and tabs are the same thing. We call tags, plates. or license plates.

Because you’re trying to equate the circumstances where Timothy McVeigh was pulled over with black people being pulled over because of an air freshener.

And it’s “tags” not “tabs”.