Native American or American Indian or Indigenous American?

[Libertas]

Listening to a 25 year old George Carlin/Dick Cavett conversation, George pointed out that the term "Native American" was created by the United States government for census reasons or other bookkeeping/categorizing reasons. That most preferred one of the other two names, American Indian or Indigenous American.

He then also said there is no reason you can say POC and not say Colored People (I apologize for using that term but for the sake of the discussion I have) This one he might have been going too far, but he was basing it on the proper use of language. That from a standpoint of language, one was no different than the other. I dont know what he would say today.

He also said that while he sympathized with liberal thinking in these areas as to motive, sometimes he was bothered by what was then known or now as "political correctness" which was a RIGHTWING term used to promote their ugly agenda.

We know that today they do the same thing with being "cancelled.", something that doesn't actually exist.

I suppose when it comes to the POC debate it isnt about language but history, and how that phrase was and still is used to demean non whites.

I was just surprised by some of what he said in this conversation and while I am not interested AT ALL in what any con thinks, I am interested in my friends here who might be able to educate me also on some of this.

Obviously the CP phrase is racist because of who used it, why, the history of it.

[ProfX]

On the one hand, I basically think "Indian" is a misnomer. It all started with Colombus and his inability to understand where he landed, which he thought was the "Indies" islands off of India.

That said, with Native people I've worked with, I've also found most don't mind being called "Indian" and do refer to each other that way.

In general, I think the best rule is to simply ask people how they liked to be referred to. There's nothing intrinsically offensive with referring to someone as a "Negro" or a "colored person" today, but it just seems awkward, archaic, and inappropriate. I stick with what people prefer.

[Libertas]

On the one hand, I basically think "Indian" is a misnomer. It all started with Colombus and his inability to understand where he landed, which he thought was the "Indies" islands off of India.

That said, with Native people I've worked with, I've also found most don't mind being called "Indian" and do refer to each other that way.

In general, I think the best rule is to simply ask people how they liked to be referred to. There's nothing intrinsically offensive with referring to someone as a "Negro" or a "colored person" today, but it just seems awkward, archaic, and inappropriate. I stick with what people prefer.

Of course, yes I would use what people prefer, but we dont know what that is in general so when writing, not sure what to use.

But I was more interested in how George called out "politically correct" as being a rightwing invented phrase. I sure miss that guy. He did go overboard or was off once, when speaking of Women with eating disorders, but I know of no other time.

[rainwater]

Listening to a 25 year old George Carlin/Dick Cavett conversation, George pointed out that That most preferred one of the other two names, American Indian or Indigenous American.

they are "indigenous"...this was their continent til euros got here wiped them out and stole the continent.
making up comfy anglos terms for the invasion and slaughter of 100's of years of killing deaths and slaughter
is typical anglo bullshit. reframing of behaviors to pretend.

in Aus the term "aboriginal" refers to those dark skin peoples who have been there over 400,000years.

anglos here like to think theyre the first ones here. history of course is proving them Wrong inaccurate and incorrect.

[Libertas]

I wanted to add it of course is not up to George Carlin, Dick Cavett,myself or any white person to decide what term is used of course.

[Drak]

In Canada, indigenous peoples are First Nations, Inuit and Métis.

[carmenjonze]

they are "indigenous"...

Depends on who you ask.

People I know and have known tend to use (around me) "Indian," "Native," "Native American," ndn, and "American Indian" interchangeably. Same for organizational names...some keep these older terms for institutional reasons, e.g., a bit like the NAACP or National Council of Negro Women, Inc. does.

Use of "American Indian" is generational, I think.

this was their continent til euros got here wiped them out and stole the continent.
making up comfy anglos terms for the invasion and slaughter of 100's of years of killing deaths and slaughter
is typical anglo bullshit. reframing of behaviors to pretend.

in Aus the term "aboriginal" refers to those dark skin peoples who have been there over 400,000years.

anglos here like to think theyre the first ones here. history of course is proving them Wrong inaccurate and incorrect.

By "anglos" I'm guessing you mean whites?

So-called whites are much more than just "anglo," js. Calling them "anglos" is also generational.

[ProfX]

If we're talking about the Americas, I would say the Spanish, Portuguese, and French were also mistreating the Natives before any "Anglos" (English) arrived.

[Number6]

When in doubt, ask them how they'll like to be addressed as.

I had a man working in our warehouse in New Mexico who told us he didn't like being called a Mexican. He said he is Spanish and can trace his ancestry on both parents side back to Spain. So when people referred to him as being Mexican I'd correct them and tell them he is Spanish, not Mexican.

[Drak]

When in doubt, ask them how they'll like to be addressed as.

I had a man working in our warehouse in New Mexico who told us he didn't like being called a Mexican. He said he is Spanish and can trace his ancestry on both parents side back to Spain. So when people referred to him as being Mexican I'd correct them and tell them he is Spanish, not Mexican.

What’s sad is there’s nothing wrong with being referred to as Mexican if that’s where you’re from. But the RW has attempted to turn being from Mexico into something to be ashamed of.

[Number6]

What’s sad is there’s nothing wrong with being referred to as Mexican if that’s where you’re from. But the RW has attempted to turn being from Mexico into something to be ashamed of.

While I'd normally agree with you I'd say not everyone identifies with the nationality of where they come from. Countries who've taken areas from other countries those citizens might not want to be identified as belong to the conquering country.

[carmenjonze]

When in doubt, ask them how they'll like to be addressed as.

I had a man working in our warehouse in New Mexico who told us he didn't like being called a Mexican. He said he is Spanish and can trace his ancestry on both parents side back to Spain. So when people referred to him as being Mexican I'd correct them and tell them he is Spanish, not Mexican.

This is a pretty specific thing in NM by people who basically identify with the colonizing power.

Hispanics and Latinos in New Mexico - wiki

If anyone remembers the George Floyd protests and the statue in NM of the conquistador Don Juan de Oñate being toppled, he’s their guy.

Oñate was a monster to indigenous people of the region, btw. Not saying every individual who identifies with him are monsters, but his statue got knocked down for a reason.

[carmenjonze]

While I'd normally agree with you I'd say not everyone identifies with the nationality of where they come from. Countries who've taken areas from other countries those citizens might not want to be identified as belong to the conquering country.

In this case it’s a little more complex in that there are Hispanics and Latinos calling themselves “Spanish” because they do identify with the original conquering country.

In their case it’s made even more complicated by Texas independence, the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo, and the Gadsden Purchase.

[carmenjonze]

What’s sad is there’s nothing wrong with being referred to as Mexican if that’s where you’re from. But the RW has attempted to turn being from Mexico into something to be ashamed of.

That, and New Mexico used to literally BE Mexico.

A friend of mine comes from this exact heritage in NM and it’s pretty complex. It’s like, ok, that really is their lineage, and they’re not trying to assert superiority in it. And then paradoxically otoh there’s often pretty clear elitism associated with it.

Even so, identitying as “Spanish” did NOT spare my friend’s relatives from the same old anti-Latino violence and flagrant discrimination. White supremacism destroys everything.