Masks in Schools ?

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Bludogdem
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Masks in Schools ?

Post by Bludogdem »

“ The CDC’s Flawed Case for Wearing Masks in School
The agency’s director has said, repeatedly, that schools without mask mandates have triple the risk of COVID outbreaks. That claim is based on very shaky science.”

“ This estimated effect of mask requirements—far bigger than others in the research literature—would become a crucial talking point in the weeks to come. On September 28, during a White House briefing, Walensky brought up the 3.5 multiplier again; then she tweeted it that afternoon. In mid-October, with the school year in full swing, Walensky brought up the same statistic one more time.

But the Arizona study at the center of the CDC’s back-to-school blitz turns out to have been profoundly misleading. “You can’t learn anything about the effects of school mask mandates from this study,” Jonathan Ketcham, a public-health economist at Arizona State University, told me. His view echoed the assessment of eight other experts who reviewed the research, and with whom I spoke for this article. Masks may well help prevent the spread of COVID, some of these experts told me, and there may well be contexts in which they should be required in schools. But the data being touted by the CDC—which showed a dramatic more-than-tripling of risk for unmasked students—ought to be excluded from this debate. The Arizona study’s lead authors stand by their work, and so does the CDC. But the critics were forthright in their harsh assessments. Noah Haber, an interdisciplinary scientist and a co-author of a systematic review of COVID-19 mitigation policies, called the research “so unreliable that it probably should not have been entered into the public discourse.”

“ There are other issues, too. Jason Abaluck, an economics professor at Yale and the lead investigator on a 340,000-person randomized trial of masking in Bangladesh, called the Arizona study “ridiculous” for failing to control for the vaccination status of staff or students. If more people had been immunized at the schools with mask mandates—or if those schools were more likely to have other mitigation measures in place, such as improved ventilation—then they likely would have seen fewer outbreaks regardless. According to the paper, data on vaccination coverage were unavailable on a per-school basis.

Even basic elements of the data set inspire some concerns. According to the paper, 782 of the 999 public, non-charter schools included in the study were in Maricopa County. In response to a public-records request, the Arizona Department of Education sent me what it said was the same list of schools that had been provided to the researchers, with 891 relevant entries for Maricopa. But closer inspection revealed that about 40 of them were virtual learning academies, about 20 were preschools, and about 90 were vocational programs associated with otherwise-listed schools. That left at most roughly 740 schools for inclusion in the study, not 782. If dozens of entries were inappropriately included in the final data set, were “outbreaks” counted for them too?”

“ Abaluck’s huge, randomized trial of mask use in rural Bangladeshi villages, for example, estimated just an 11 percent reduction in confirmed symptomatic SARS-CoV-2 infection among adults wearing surgical masks (and relatively little evidence of any effect for cloth masks).”

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/arc ... ky/621035/
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Libertas
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Re: Masks in Schools ?

Post by Libertas »

Steak and lobster?

I dont have time right now honey, I have to argue on the internet why I want to see kids and their parents suffer and die from Covid. Keep it warm for me please!
I sigh in your general direction.
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carmenjonze
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Re: Masks in Schools ?

Post by carmenjonze »

:lol: David Zweig is a "Great Barrington Declaration" propagandist. The GBD was a major peddler of herd immunity/just let it spread garbage.
__________

Laurie Garrett
@Laurie_Garrett

Great work getting to the bottom of the idiotic Great Barrington Declaration on #COVID19 ...surprise! The 3 scientists sold their souls to #Koch . @GYamey @gregggonsalves

[.QT]
Rob Yates
@yates_rob

Climate Science Denial Network: Behind Great Barrington Declaration - Byline Times

Image

https://twitter.com/Laurie_Garrett/stat ... 0012433409
__________

:lol:
Last edited by carmenjonze on Sat Dec 18, 2021 12:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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carmenjonze
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Re: Masks in Schools ?

Post by carmenjonze »

Libertas wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 4:49 pm Steak and lobster?

I dont have time right now honey, I have to argue on the internet why I want to see kids and their parents suffer and die from Covid. Keep it warm for me please!
These white cons live for the death of others.

White conservatism is a public health menace.
________________________________

The way to right wrongs is to
Shine the light of truth on them.

~ Ida B. Wells
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ProfX
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Re: Masks in Schools ?

Post by ProfX »

I'd put this in the general COVID-19 thread, but, now I'll just leave it here.

Trump sought to 'undermine' COVID-19 response, says panel
https://thehill.com/homenews/administra ... mine-covid

The Trump administration deliberately undermined the nation's coronavirus response for political purposes, including by weakening testing guidance and championing widespread "herd immunity," according to a new report from the House panel investigating the pandemic response.

The Democratic staff report released Friday was a summation of the year's work investigating political interference in the pandemic response from Trump officials and the former president himself.

In interviews with officials and from uncovered emails and other documents, the committee found that the former administration failed to heed warnings about supply shortages, blocked public health officials from speaking publicly and neglected the pandemic response in order to focus on the 2020 presidential election and on promoting the lie that the election was "stolen" from Trump through widespread fraud.

New evidence released by the panel Friday highlighted the frustration and anger among senior public health officials with Trump's embrace of the herd immunity strategy.

In one instance, Trump held a roundtable event at the White House in August 2020 with some of herd immunity's top proponents that was organized by Scott Atlas, a radiologist who became a special adviser to Trump.

According to emails obtained by the panel, former White House coronavirus response coordinator Deborah Birx described it as “a fringe group."

"I can't be part of this with these people who believe in herd immunity," Birx wrote in an email to then-Chief of Staff to the Vice President Marc Short. "These are people who believe that all the curves are predetermined and mitigation is irrelevant -- they are a fringe group without grounding in epidemics, public health or on the ground common sense experience. I am happy to go out of town or whatever gives the WH cover," she wrote.

Other details released by the panel Friday showed the Trump White House intentionally “softened” the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's public health guidance for faith communities.

[snip][end]

If you ask me, which is worse, an overabundance of unnecessary caution, or this bullshit above - well, don't ask me.
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Glennfs
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Re: Masks in Schools ?

Post by Glennfs »

I don't get what the issue is and wonder if it really is an issue. I live in a conservative area of South Carolina. My grandson is in 1st grade everyone in his school wears a mask. While I am sure some fools aren't happy about it at the end of the day their kid has to wear a mask.
For the older students masks have become somewhat of a fashion statement.
I wonder how much of this so called controversy is the media giving far to much coverage to a few dissenters in order to get ratings.
" I am a socialist " Bernie Sanders
gounion
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Re: Masks in Schools ?

Post by gounion »

Glennfs wrote: Sat Dec 18, 2021 7:18 am I don't get what the issue is and wonder if it really is an issue. I live in a conservative area of South Carolina. My grandson is in 1st grade everyone in his school wears a mask. While I am sure some fools aren't happy about it at the end of the day their kid has to wear a mask.
For the older students masks have become somewhat of a fashion statement.
I wonder how much of this so called controversy is the media giving far to much coverage to a few dissenters in order to get ratings.
It would seem this reporter is in that category. It's been his hobbyhorse from the beginning.
Glennfs
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Re: Masks in Schools ?

Post by Glennfs »

carmenjonze wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 10:53 pm These white cons live for the death of others.

White conservatism is a public health menace.
So why are so many African Americans not vaxed

https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-1 ... ethnicity/

Are they also a health menace or are they living for the deaths of others
" I am a socialist " Bernie Sanders
gounion
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Re: Masks in Schools ?

Post by gounion »

Glennfs wrote: Sat Dec 18, 2021 7:23 am So why are so many African Americans not vaxed

https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-1 ... ethnicity/

Are they also a health menace or are they living for the deaths of others
From the article:
As of December 13, 2021, White people accounted for the largest share (63%) of people who are unvaccinated.
So as usual you cherry-pick what you want to hear. And what, exactly, is that? What are you saying about blacks?

I think blacks aren't vaccinated for reasons relating to historical actions by the medical field to blacks.

But here's the thing: Black leadership is in unison to urge blacks to get the vaccines, especially since, as usual, blacks die from COVID at a great rate.

Whereas white conservative leadership, the ones you vote for, are in unison in pretending COVID isn't even real.
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ProfX
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Re: Masks in Schools ?

Post by ProfX »

Looking at that table (Figure 2), one could ask other questions, too.

Like why is the overall vax rate for whites (58%) so much lower than for Asian-Amerians (77%)?

BTW: I know the answer, has something to do with culture (ethos) and maybe experience of relatives (like with SARS), of course, but ...

Dunno, you can pose that question in a vacuum, I wouldn't do it without discussing things like the Tuskegee Experiment or also data that suggests when it comes to health care, A-A's tend to be listened to less than white patients ... things like that ...
"Don't believe every quote attributed to people on the Internet" -- Abraham Lincoln :D
Glennfs
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Re: Masks in Schools ?

Post by Glennfs »

gounion wrote: Sat Dec 18, 2021 7:33 am From the article:



So as usual you cherry-pick what you want to hear. And what, exactly, is that? What are you saying about blacks?

I think blacks aren't vaccinated for reasons relating to historical actions by the medical field to blacks.

But here's the thing: Black leadership is in unison to urge blacks to get the vaccines, especially since, as usual, blacks die from COVID at a great rate.

Whereas white conservative leadership, the ones you vote for, are in unison in pretending COVID isn't even real.
So a person saying that white conservatives live to see people die gets zero response from you. But commenting on ot with facts and figures is tantamount to cherry picking.....got it.
" I am a socialist " Bernie Sanders
Glennfs
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Re: Masks in Schools ?

Post by Glennfs »

ProfX wrote: Sat Dec 18, 2021 7:35 am Looking at that table (Figure 2), one could ask other questions, too.

Like why is the overall vax rate for whites (58%) so much lower than for Asian-Amerians (77%)?

BTW: I know the answer, has something to do with culture (ethos) and maybe experience of relatives (like with SARS), of course, but ...

Dunno, you can pose that question in a vacuum, I wouldn't do it without discussing things like the Tuskegee Experiment or also data that suggests when it comes to health care, A-A's tend to be listened to less than white patients ... things like that ...
Again same response a poster saying white conservatives live to see people die is completely ok with you. But a person responding to that vile and racist remark isn't
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gounion
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Re: Masks in Schools ?

Post by gounion »

Glennfs wrote: Sat Dec 18, 2021 7:37 am Again same response a poster saying white conservatives live to see people die is completely ok with you. But a person responding to that vile and racist remark isn't
White conservative leadership sure as hell IS wanting to lie to their followers and don't mind if they die. That's simply a fact, Glenn.

Whereas black leadership is encouraging their followers to get the vaccine.

Why do you support and vote for people that pretend the virus isn't real?
Glennfs
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Re: Masks in Schools ?

Post by Glennfs »

gounion wrote: Sat Dec 18, 2021 7:40 am White conservative leadership sure as hell IS wanting to lie to their followers and don't mind if they die. That's simply a fact, Glenn.

Whereas black leadership is encouraging their followers to get the vaccine.

Why do you support and vote for people that pretend the virus isn't real?
So is saying that white conservatives live to see people die a vile thing to say and believe yes or no
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ProfX
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Re: Masks in Schools ?

Post by ProfX »

Glennfs wrote: Sat Dec 18, 2021 7:37 am Again same response a poster saying white conservatives live to see people die is completely ok with you. But a person responding to that vile and racist remark isn't
Let me put it this way: Scott Atlas (a white conservative) and other morons like him may not live to see other people die, but they are pushing some very bullshit snake oil that will result in more deaths. So maybe it's more manslaughter than murder, but ...

Look - we are now up to 800K COVID deaths in this country. And I'm definitely not saying we wouldn't have had many no matter what. There is always difficulty arguing how many were preventable. I recent guesstimate I saw is that Trump, Atlas, and their confreres pushing their idiocy of don't test, don't mask, and vax hesitancy (Trump got the vax and then hid that he got it ... for fux's sake) and just hope magical herd immunity will protect us all ... well MAYBE 40-50% of those deaths could have been prevented.

BTW: the good news, Omicron isn't very deadly. The bad news, it seems to shred through that "herd" (natural from previous infection) immunity like butter. Good thing Biden & Fauci are not listening to people like Atlas, even if Gov. DeStupid, is.
Last edited by ProfX on Sat Dec 18, 2021 7:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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gounion
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Re: Masks in Schools ?

Post by gounion »

Glennfs wrote: Sat Dec 18, 2021 7:43 am So is saying that white conservatives live to see people die a vile thing to say and believe yes or no
Some certainly are. Like Hannity and Tucker. Trump sure as hell doesn't care WHO he kills. And when he says masks are stupid, no one on the right will stand against him.

Tell me - do you think is COVID denialism a thing on the right? Yes or no?
Glennfs
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Re: Masks in Schools ?

Post by Glennfs »

gounion wrote: Sat Dec 18, 2021 7:48 am Some certainly are. Like Hannity and Tucker. Trump sure as hell doesn't care WHO he kills. And when he says masks are stupid, no one on the right will stand against him.

Tell me - do you think is COVID denialism a thing on the right? Yes or no?
I knew you wouldn't have the balls to answer. But yes there are far more covid deniers on the right.
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gounion
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Re: Masks in Schools ?

Post by gounion »

Glennfs wrote: Sat Dec 18, 2021 7:51 am I knew you wouldn't have the balls to answer. But yes there are far more covid deniers on the right.
No one on the right are standing up to the lies from their own. So it's obvious to me that they care about keeping on the Trump train than they do about the lives of the people they influence.

So the answer is yes. Glad you agree.
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Re: Masks in Schools ?

Post by Glennfs »

gounion wrote: Sat Dec 18, 2021 8:00 am No one on the right are standing up to the lies from their own. So it's obvious to me that they care about keeping on the Trump train than they do about the lives of the people they influence.

So the answer is yes. Glad you agree.
Is saying that white conservatives live to see people die a vile thing to say and believe yes or no
" I am a socialist " Bernie Sanders
gounion
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Re: Masks in Schools ?

Post by gounion »

Glennfs wrote: Sat Dec 18, 2021 8:03 am Is saying that white conservatives live to see people die a vile thing to say and believe yes or no
Maybe you should look in the mirror about what you say about us racists and socialists and communists before you judge others.
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ProfX
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Re: Masks in Schools ?

Post by ProfX »

As she stated: there are major white conservative leaders and media figures STILL pushing COVID denialism, Ivermectin, UV rays and miracle bleach up your ass, and vax disinformation.

There are no major Black leaders pushing the same thing (I'm not saying there aren't a handful of crazy ass Black preachers - there's always some - I said "major") even if there is some - understandable - hesitancy in the A-A community.

The leadership is definitely showing rabid indifference to life.
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Glennfs
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Re: Masks in Schools ?

Post by Glennfs »

gounion wrote: Sat Dec 18, 2021 8:06 am Maybe you should look in the mirror about what you say about us racists and socialists and communists before you judge others.
Maybe you should grow a pair and answer the question
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gounion
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Re: Masks in Schools ?

Post by gounion »

Glennfs wrote: Sat Dec 18, 2021 8:17 am Maybe you should grow a pair and answer the question
I did answer the question. Learn to read.

I've GOT my pair. I don't run away from questions like YOU do.

You sure do manufacture a lot of outrage when we say something - based on facts - about the right, when all you do is call us all racists and socialists and communists - based on your fantasies.
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Re: Masks in Schools ?

Post by Glennfs »

gounion wrote: Sat Dec 18, 2021 8:20 am I did answer the question. Learn to read.

I've GOT my pair. I don't run away from questions like YOU do.

You sure do manufacture a lot of outrage when we say something - based on facts - about the right, when all you do is call us all racists and socialists and communists - based on your fantasies.
You never answered you gave a political non answer
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gounion
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Re: Masks in Schools ?

Post by gounion »

Glennfs wrote: Sat Dec 18, 2021 8:23 am You never answered you gave a political non answer
Read this post (extra bolding and stuff mine):
gounion wrote: Sat Dec 18, 2021 8:00 am No one on the right are standing up to the lies from their own. So it's obvious to me that they care about keeping on the Trump train than they do about the lives of the people they influence.

So the answer is yes. Glad you agree.
Awaiting your apology.
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