Tennessee County bans prize-wining "Maus"

[JoeMemphis]

LOTS of people want to stop teaching evolution. They tried to come up with a alternate science - "Intelligent Design" to replace evolution. The courts knocked them down.

It's funny how you didn't support any of the actions because of COVID - you didn't say how wonderful "democracy" was then. But now, suddenly, it's great.

You just showed your own fucking hypocrisy. That's one big self-own.

Bet we got to give it to you - when it's about science, you're always against it.

I guess we now agree that all that shit was autocratic. Just one guy or a group of individuals imposing their decisions on the population.

It’s funny how you supported all of the actions during the lockdown and yet never complained about it being autocratic. You just showed your own fucking hypocrisy.

Bottomline, elected officials make decisions all the time they do not put to a vote. That’s how this government works. But by your definition, that’s autocracy.

[gounion]

I guess we now agree that all that shit was autocratic. Just one guy or a group of individuals imposing their decisions on the population.

It’s funny how you supported all of the actions during the lockdown and yet never complained about it being autocratic. You just showed your own fucking hypocrisy.

Bottomline, elected officials make decisions all the time they do not put to a vote. That’s how this government works. But by your definition, that’s autocracy.

So you've completely dropped the "democracy" bullshit?

[gounion]

Joe's idea of "democracy." it's fine to ban 850 books!

[JoeMemphis]

So you've completely dropped the "democracy" bullshit?

No. Elected officials make decisions everyday in this country. I don’t have to like or agree with all of them. You don’t have to like or agree with all of them. That doesn’t change the fact that our system of government is a representative democracy.

As I said earlier, you like democracy as long as people decide how you want them to decide. You are all about choices as long as you can dictate the outcome.

[JoeMemphis]

Joe's idea of "democracy." it's fine to ban 850 books!

You are more about autocracy than I. You are the guy that wants a large central government making all the decisions. You are multitudes closer to the guys in the picture than I could ever be.

[gounion]

No. Elected officials make decisions everyday in this country. I don’t have to like or agree with all of them. You don’t have to like or agree with all of them. That doesn’t change the fact that our system of government is a representative democracy.

As I said earlier, you like democracy as long as people decide how you want them to decide. You are all about choices as long as you can dictate the outcome.

You weren't saying SHIT about democracy when you were arguing against COVID restrictions, now, were you?

You're a big 'ole hypocrite.

No one who is into banning books and censorship has ever been seen to be a good guy. But that's the side you've picked.

Know what one of the books they love to the most? To Kill a Mockingbird. Bet you hate that book too, don't you?

Oh wait, you've never read it have you?

[JoeMemphis]

You weren't saying SHIT about democracy when you were arguing against COVID restrictions, now, were you?

You're a big 'ole hypocrite.

No one who is into banning books and censorship has ever been seen to be a good guy. But that's the side you've picked.

Know what one of the books they love to the most? To Kill a Mockingbird. Bet you hate that book too, don't you?

Oh wait, you've never read it have you?

I thought the Covid restrictions were arbitrary and they were. I thought they were ineffective and they were. I will note that in the latest surges we didn’t repeat that mistake.

I never favored banning books. I never favored burning books. I do favor democratic processes. You appear to be both hot and cold on democracy.

[gounion]

I thought the Covid restrictions were arbitrary and they were. I thought they were ineffective and they were. I will note that in the latest surges we didn’t repeat that mistake.

I never favored banning books. I never favored burning books. I do favor democratic processes. You appear to be both hot and cold on democracy.

Yes, you are arguing in favor of banning books. I said this one idiot in Texas is banning 850 books statewide and you are cheering for him.

Now you COULD have said "You know, I don't think I'm in favor of one man wanting to ban 850 books" - which is what you would say if you weren't in favor of banning books. Instead you said "A group of democratically elected officials making a decision in their capacity as elected representatives is how our government works. We call it democracy. It’s representative democracy."

No one put those words into your mouth except YOU!

Let's be clear: I'm for democracy, but I'm NOT for banning books. I'm NOT for censorship. Never have been. You're the one favoring burning books. It was the conservatives who burned the music of Elvis, of the Beatles, of the Dixie Chicks. I'm for none of that.

But you cheer it as democracy in action.

If such a thing is done democratically, it's a SUBVERSION of democracy. You think someone banning 850 books shows the beauty of democracy. I don't.

And you sure as hell never said a damned thing about democracy when they were doing things for the health of our nation, to keep people from dying. But you don't give a fuck for people, do you?

[JoeMemphis]

Yes, you are arguing in favor of banning books. I said this one idiot in Texas is banning 850 books statewide and you are cheering for him.

Now you COULD have said "You know, I don't think I'm in favor of one man wanting to ban 850 books" - which is what you would say if you weren't in favor of banning books. Instead you said "A group of democratically elected officials making a decision in their capacity as elected representatives is how our government works. We call it democracy. It’s representative democracy."

No one put those words into your mouth except YOU!

Let's be clear: I'm for democracy, but I'm NOT for banning books. I'm NOT for censorship. Never have been. You're the one favoring burning books. It was the conservatives who burned the music of Elvis, of the Beatles, of the Dixie Chicks. I'm for none of that.

But you cheer it as democracy in action.

If such a thing is done democratically, it's a SUBVERSION of democracy. You think someone banning 850 books shows the beauty of democracy. I don't.

And you sure as hell never said a damned thing about democracy when they were doing things for the health of our nation, to keep people from dying. But you don't give a fuck for people, do you?

You are putting words in my mouth. I never advocated for banning or burning anything and you cannot produce a quote where I did. You put words in my mouth by claiming I could say this or could say that and then claim you are not putting words in my mouth. That’s exactly what that is. Show me a single post where I favored censorship of any kind or banning books. You can’t. You misrepresent my position and you do so with a fucking picture of Nazis and you call yourself an honest poster.

I told you what I support. If something or someone goes too far then that is what the courts are for. You think in extremes.

As far as Covid restrictions, I note we haven’t locked anything down in the latest surges. I note that it’s now common knowledge that the cloth masks everyone was told to wear are now known to be ineffective. So the things I said last year while you were cheering as small businesses failed have now been proven true. The science wasn’t there then and isn’t there now. The only things that has worked has been the vaccines. Something I supported all along even when you didn’t.

[gounion]

You are putting words in my mouth. I never advocated for banning or burning anything and you cannot produce a quote where I did. You put words in my mouth by claiming I could say this or could say that and then claim you are not putting words in my mouth. That’s exactly what that is. Show me a single post where I favored censorship of any kind or banning books. You can’t. You misrepresent my position and you do so with a fucking picture of Nazis and you call yourself an honest poster.

Nope, I QUOTED YOU. You HAD the chance to say you don't agree with ONE government functionary banning 850 books, and you cheered him doing it and democracy!

I told you what I support. If something or someone goes too far then that is what the courts are for. You think in extremes.

You've spent this whole damned thread cheering the banning of books. Your problem, not mine

As far as Covid restrictions, I note we haven’t locked anything down in the latest surges. I note that it’s now common knowledge that the cloth masks everyone was told to wear are now known to be ineffective. So the things I said last year while you were cheering as small businesses failed have now been proven true. The science wasn’t there then and isn’t there now. The only things that has worked has been the vaccines. Something I supported all along even when you didn’t.

You're the only one that doesn't think that the restrictions before the vaccines were needed. But you didn't even want to wear a mask - and masks are PROVEN to be effective.

But you don't give a fuck if even 20 million die. Maybe that's why you were fine with a book about the holocaust being banned.

[Glennfs]

Nope, I QUOTED YOU. You HAD the chance to say you don't agree with ONE government functionary banning 850 books, and you cheered him doing it and democracy!

You've spent this whole damned thread cheering the banning of books. Your problem, not mine

You're the only one that doesn't think that the restrictions before the vaccines were needed. But you didn't even want to wear a mask - and masks are PROVEN to be effective.

But you don't give a fuck if even 20 million die. Maybe that's why you were fine with a book about the holocaust being banned.

Are you saying that the parents and citizens of a community should not be able to decide what the children of their community is taught including what books should be allowed in their children's library.
Who should decide what the children of the community should be taught

[carmenjonze]

Are you saying that the parents and citizens of a community should not be able to decide what the children of their community is taught including what books should be allowed in their children's library.
Who should decide what the children of the community should be taught

Stupid premise.

There is more than one type of “parent.” You guys pretend that every “parent” is some astroturfed white con like these antivaxx, bathroom bill activists now threatening school boards to take books off of curricula and out libraries.

Only conservative whites are stupid enough to fall for this very old segregation-era hat trick.

And no, despite you guys’ elitist superiority complex, these karen parents are not the decision-makers for what the children of normal parents get to read and learn about. Next thing you know, schools will be back to referring to the Civil War as The Recent Unpleasantness.

[carmenjonze]

You are more about autocracy than I. You are the guy that wants a large central government making all the decisions. You are multitudes closer to the guys in the picture than I could ever be.

Incorrect. Like you, the guys in the photo are amoral conservative whites who need the government to do your dirtywork.

They came to power and thrived because of authoritarian sycophants like you, who do nothing to stop them.

[carmenjonze]

As I said earlier, you like democracy as long as people decide how you want them to decide. You are all about choices as long as you can dictate the outcome.

umm, a school board for an entire county has chosen and decided and dictated that the 8th graders of conservative/snowflake parents are too frail to read Maus. So Maus has been banned from the curriculum for all 8th graders.

There are many many MANY more examples of conservatives doing this across the country, and you fall all over yourself in a rush to support it.

Like the rest of the arrogant, ignorant rightwingers around here, you haven’t even read Maus, yourself. So your uninformed opinions are irrelevant, and you’re probably getting them off of Breitbart, anyway.

[ProfX]

1. Once again, public health science is being widely distorted. Not surprised. I repeat: if you want to know if a public health measure worked, you look at locality/country X that implemented it, and locality/country Y that didn't, and compare outcomes from that point in case rates. Not this silly "let's look at the death rate of a state based on who the governor is" . Of course, people believe what they want to believe, and because of Omicron's higher virulence, mask upgrading has been recommended, but that doesn't mean the lower grade were ineffective against earlier strains.

If I want to know what works, I ask an epidemiologist, not a rando on a MB.

Basic public health interventions important to reducing omicron spread
Epidemiologist Chris Beyrer suggests that in addition to sharing effective vaccines around the world, basic practices such as masking and providing paid sick leave will help reduce the spread of coronavirus
https://hub.jhu.edu/2021/12/15/chris-be ... f-omicron/

2. Again, here's the question. I read the transcript of the school board. I understand the criteria they claim to have removed the book for. I think they are ridiculous. They claim a handful of parents raised these objections to them. But here's how democracy works. If three parents in a district tell them they are so shocked the book contains a naked mouse in a bathtub (aren't all mice normally "naked"?) , but the majority of the parents in the district don't care ... are they really doing "the will of the people/parents" in the district? I notice nobody has yet shown any evidence they are carrying out the will of the majority, which is what I thought democracy was based on.

I again repeat: if you are a parent who thinks your 8th grader's life will be destroyed by seeing a picture of a naked mouse, have you kid not read it, don't take away that from other kids in the district.

And yes, I know, it's available online and now even locally being made available from other sources, but still.

[carmenjonze]

And yes, I know, it's available online and now even locally being made available from other sources, but still.

I'd like to see JoeMemphis's reaction if some Satanist parents got the Bible removed from the school library because they don't want their kids exposed to all that sex, genocide, rape, and deities destroying everything on the planet. Lol one of us could tell him to stop complaining and send him to biblegateway.com.

[JoeMemphis]

Nope, I QUOTED YOU. You HAD the chance to say you don't agree with ONE government functionary banning 850 books, and you cheered him doing it and democracy!

You've spent this whole damned thread cheering the banning of books. Your problem, not mine

You're the only one that doesn't think that the restrictions before the vaccines were needed. But you didn't even want to wear a mask - and masks are PROVEN to be effective.

But you don't give a fuck if even 20 million die. Maybe that's why you were fine with a book about the holocaust being banned.

Show me the quote where I made that statement. Not saying what you “think” I should say is not a statement of support. That is you putting your spin on something that isn’t there. IOW it’s putting words in my mouth intentionally and is a LIE. You have done this for years. It’s not true. It’s not logical. It’s not honest. So produce a single fucking quote where I made the actual statement or withdraw the comment.

As the the pandemic, the restrictions that closed all these small businesses were an over reaction. I noted that when the next waves or surges occurred we didn’t repeat those errors. In addition, the numbers at CDC did not support the policy. Restricted states did not perform as far as death rates any better than the states that didn’t impose strict restrictions. I also said that the masking policy was ineffective because the masks being issued were inadequate and were not worn properly. Both of those positions have now been confirmed.

[gounion]

Show me the quote where I made that statement. Not saying what you “think” I should say is not a statement of support. That is you putting your spin on something that isn’t there. IOW it’s putting words in my mouth intentionally and is a LIE. You have done this for years. It’s not true. It’s not logical. It’s not honest. So produce a single fucking quote where I made the actual statement or withdraw the comment.

Again, I DID quote you! You had a chance, with an idiot wanting to ban 850 books, to say "I'm not in favor of banning books". But you didn't, did you? You cheered on the greatness of democracy!

So, yes, you've proven where you stand.

As the the pandemic, the restrictions that closed all these small businesses were an over reaction. I noted that when the next waves or surges occurred we didn’t repeat those errors. In addition, the numbers at CDC did not support the policy. Restricted states did not perform as far as death rates any better than the states that didn’t impose strict restrictions. I also said that the masking policy was ineffective because the masks being issued were inadequate and were not worn properly. Both of those positions have now been confirmed.

It keeps showing that you worship money, and it's more important to you than human life.

[gounion]

Are you saying that the parents and citizens of a community should not be able to decide what the children of their community is taught including what books should be allowed in their children's library.
Who should decide what the children of the community should be taught

Well let me ask you. If the parents want their children taught intelligent design instead of evolution, is that fine? How about flat earth?

Do you think books like To Kill a Mockingbird should be banned?

I think parents can have a say, but they don't have the education to be able to plan an entire education. That should be up to educators. They are who should have the last word.

Now I realize parents in the same area that screamed to keep Ruby Bridges out of school would prefer that their children never learn what they did. I understand they'd rather that history not be taught. But I don't believe in censorship, I don't believe in book banning, and I believe in teaching REAL history, and science instead of religious dogma.

That's where I stand. How about you?

[ProfX]

Nobody was telling anybody not to use N95 masks except initially, due to reluctance from possible lack of availability for first responders and medical workers when they were in short supply.

The CDC has always said those masks were better, but they only started recommending everyone upgrade after Omicron. Nothing's changed other than that. They did not say prior recommendations for earlier waves were in error. And they have always told people how to wear them properly.

N95 masks have been available since 2 years ago. Nobody was saying not to wear them if you wanted to. And I'm glad it seems everybody agrees here that they work. (That does NOT mean lower grade masks were totally ineffective against earlier waves.)

[carmenjonze]

Show me the quote where I made that statement. ... So produce a single fucking quote where I made the actual statement or withdraw the comment.

Lol oh my goodness. Temper-temper.

Hey bright eyes, he just did so.

You literally labeled this guy banning 850 books as "democracy" and "how our government works."

A group of democratically elected officials making a decision in their capacity as elected representatives is how our government works. We call it democracy. It’s representative democracy.

IOW it’s putting words in my mouth intentionally and is a LIE. You have done this for years. It’s not true. It’s not logical. It’s not honest.

You come from a culture that instills dishonesty and irrationality, starting with the lies you tell yourselves.

[JoeMemphis]

1. Once again, public health science is being widely distorted. Not surprised. I repeat: if you want to know if a public health measure worked, you look at locality/country X that implemented it, and locality/country Y that didn't, and compare outcomes from that point in case rates. Not this silly "let's look at the death rate of a state based on who the governor is" . Of course, people believe what they want to believe, and because of Omicron's higher virulence, mask upgrading has been recommended, but that doesn't mean the lower grade were ineffective against earlier strains.

If I want to know what works, I ask an epidemiologist, not a rando on a MB.

Basic public health interventions important to reducing omicron spread
Epidemiologist Chris Beyrer suggests that in addition to sharing effective vaccines around the world, basic practices such as masking and providing paid sick leave will help reduce the spread of coronavirus
https://hub.jhu.edu/2021/12/15/chris-be ... f-omicron/

2. Again, here's the question. I read the transcript of the school board. I understand the criteria they claim to have removed the book for. I think they are ridiculous. They claim a handful of parents raised these objections to them. But here's how democracy works. If three parents in a district tell them they are so shocked the book contains a naked mouse in a bathtub (aren't all mice normally "naked"?) , but the majority of the parents in the district don't care ... are they really doing "the will of the people/parents" in the district? I notice nobody has yet shown any evidence they are carrying out the will of the majority, which is what I thought democracy was based on.

I again repeat: if you are a parent who thinks your 8th grader's life will be destroyed by seeing a picture of a naked mouse, have you kid not read it, don't take away that from other kids in the district.

And yes, I know, it's available online and now even locally being made available from other sources, but still.

The individual that initially made the statement that blue states outperform red states and challenged me to refute that assertion was you. So roll your eyes all you want.

As to your second point, elected/appointed officials in this country make all kinds of unpopular decisions that are never put to a vote. Are all those folks autocrats? All I know in this case is that a duly elected school board made a decision that this material was unsuitable for 8th graders. They didn’t burn the book. They didn’t ban the book. As far as I know the children in McMinn County are still educated about the Holocaust. No one has presented any evidence to the contrary. But the cool thing about democracy is that if you or anyone else disagrees with the decision, you can complain or protest, write letters, etc, etc, etc. You can take the school board to court. That’s how government works in a democracy. You often don’t have such rights in authoritarian regimes.

[carmenjonze]

I think parents can have a say, but they don't have the education to be able to plan an entire education.

These clowns aren't even talking about "parents." They're talking about propagandized white-conservative parents. Like the good, provincial, ignorant white supremacists they are, those are the only "parents" worth discussing to them, since those are the only "parents" they are aware of.

No other "parents" even exist to these blinkered white cons.

[JoeMemphis]

Again, I DID quote you! You had a chance, with an idiot wanting to ban 850 books, to say "I'm not in favor of banning books". But you didn't, did you? You cheered on the greatness of democracy!

So, yes, you've proven where you stand.

It keeps showing that you worship money, and it's more important to you than human life.

You are drawing a conclusion on what I didn’t say and not what I have actually stated. You are assigning a position to me that I have never taken and you cannot produce a single statement where I have. That’s just lying. Plain and simple. But that’s how you roll. That’s your style. I don’t know what you worship other than yourself, but it isn’t the truth.

[carmenjonze]

The individual that initially made the statement that blue states outperform red states and challenged me to refute that assertion was you. So roll your eyes all you want.

As to your second point, elected/appointed officials in this country make all kinds of unpopular decisions that are never put to a vote. Are all those folks autocrats? All I know in this case is that a duly elected school board made a decision that this material was unsuitable for 8th graders. They didn’t burn the book. They didn’t ban the book. As far as I know the children in McMinn County are still educated about the Holocaust. No one has presented any evidence to the contrary. But the cool thing about democracy is that if you or anyone else disagrees with the decision, you can complain or protest, write letters, etc, etc, etc. You can take the school board to court. That’s how government works in a democracy. You often don’t have such rights in authoritarian regimes.

Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia, too.

You and Glennfs are so confused around the subject of conservative book-banning that you're actually arguing that conservative book-banning is a function of democracy.

As far as I know the children in McMinn County are still educated about the Holocaust.

Read Maus, yet?