The Critical Race Theory/so-called Cancel Culture Thread

[ProfX]

It bothers me most of all that there are politicians talking about the dangers of something, and/or banning that something from schools, who really absolutely do not know anything about it.

But yeah, I happen to agree with Carmen what bothers me second most is ordinary folks, not just limited to this board, who support their politicians doing this, when they also know nothing about it.

I'll repeat: we can debate what politicians should be booted from office, but at the top of my list are ones saying they are going to ban something they know nothing about.

[carmenjonze]

Excellent X, an actual starting place to find something about the topic to read.



Once I had a title of a book I looked at Google books and found a good preview of the book, about half of it is in the preview, that makes it something substantially accessible to forum members here. Here's a link to that for anyone who actually wants to read some of what is about:

https://books.google.com/books?id=ruoTC ... IC&f=false

Thanks, over the next coupe days I'll read from it.

We've linked similar rescources before, over the course of several months.

But I do get that it was very important to get me to do your personal work for you.

[sam lefthand]

"Us"?

Never mind I don't need you anymore. X took care of it for you. I've been reading and have already found this quote:

“It is bad psychology to tell people who do not believe that they are racist—who may even actively despise racism—that there is nothing they can do to stop themselves from being racist—and then ask them to help you.

It is even less helpful to tell them that even their own good intentions are proof of their latent racism. Worst of all is to set up double-binds, like telling them that if they notice race it is because they are racist, but if they don’t notice race it’s because their privilege affords them the luxury of not noticing race, which is racist.”

― Helen Pluckrose, Cynical Theories: How Activist Scholarship Made Everything about Race, Gender, and Identity—and Why This Harms Everybody

Helen Pluckrose is certainly talking about you Carmen, she has your number.

[carmenjonze]

It bothers me most of all that there are politicians talking about the dangers of something, and/or banning that something from schools, who really absolutely do not know anything about it.

But yeah, I happen to agree with Carmen what bothers me second most is ordinary folks, not just limited to this board, who support their politicians doing this, when they also know nothing about it.

I'll repeat: we can debate what politicians should be booted from office, but at the top of my list are ones saying they are going to ban something they know nothing about.

They're using a distorted version of critical race theory as a springboard to attack 1- public education, and 2- the gains of various civil rights movements.

CRT is Willie Horton for 2021, and like in 1989, conservative whites are an easy target market for it. They're not alone, but overwhelmingly, we can count on conservative whites to line up to be exploited this way.

[sam lefthand]

It bothers me most of all that there are politicians talking about the dangers of something, and/or banning that something from schools, who really absolutely do not know anything about it.

But yeah, I happen to agree with Carmen what bothers me second most is ordinary folks, not just limited to this board, who support their politicians doing this, when they also know nothing about it.

I'll repeat: we can debate what politicians should be booted from office, but at the top of my list are ones saying they are going to ban something they know nothing about.

I don't like the "we ought to ban something" set either. Never have.

[carmenjonze]

You and the rest of the conservative whites are being exploited. You can avoid that situation with a little self-education, but instead of putting a search term in a search engine on your own, making the Black person step and fetch it for you is your first response. It's not surprising.

School board meeting draws large crowd for Critical Race Theory debate - Crested Butte News

Debate Over Critical Race Theory Gets Heated In Grass Valley - CBS 13 Sacramento

BBCHS board meeting becomes forum for critical race theory - Daily Journal

North Dakota House passes bill that bans critical race theory instruction - KVRR

State lawmakers weigh in on Critical Race Theory at Columbia Board of Education meeting - KQFX

[sam lefthand]

You and the rest of the conservative whites are being exploited. You can avoid that situation with a little self-education, but instead of putting a search term in a search engine on your own, making the Black person step and fetch it for you is your first response. It's not surprising.

School board meeting draws large crowd for Critical Race Theory debate - Crested Butte News

Debate Over Critical Race Theory Gets Heated In Grass Valley - CBS 13 Sacramento

BBCHS board meeting becomes forum for critical race theory - Daily Journal

North Dakota House passes bill that bans critical race theory instruction - KVRR

State lawmakers weigh in on Critical Race Theory at Columbia Board of Education meeting - KQFX

Those are links to common five and dime news articles "about the about," not links to the CRT theory itself. But don't worry about that any more because X took care of it for you.



You quoted me but didn't address what was in my quote, this is what was there:

It is bad psychology to tell people who do not believe that they are racist—who may even actively despise racism—that there is nothing they can do to stop themselves from being racist—and then ask them to help you.

It is even less helpful to tell them that even their own good intentions are proof of their latent racism. Worst of all is to set up double-binds, like telling them that if they notice race it is because they are racist, but if they don’t notice race it’s because their privilege affords them the luxury of not noticing race, which is racist.”

― Helen Pluckrose, Cynical Theories: How Activist Scholarship Made Everything about Race, Gender, and Identity—and Why This Harms Everybody

Have you got something to say about that?

[Libertas]

You and the rest of the conservative whites are being exploited. You can avoid that situation with a little self-education, but instead of putting a search term in a search engine on your own, making the Black person step and fetch it for you is your first response. It's not surprising.

School board meeting draws large crowd for Critical Race Theory debate - Crested Butte News

Debate Over Critical Race Theory Gets Heated In Grass Valley - CBS 13 Sacramento

BBCHS board meeting becomes forum for critical race theory - Daily Journal

North Dakota House passes bill that bans critical race theory instruction - KVRR

State lawmakers weigh in on Critical Race Theory at Columbia Board of Education meeting - KQFX

The modern father of all this

The Secret Papers of Lee Atwater, Who Invented the Scurrilous Tactics That Trump Normalized

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-des ... normalized

allegedly said before he died he was sorry to do this to America. Right here on this board on a daily basis we can see how effective his work has been all these years later. It is the reason the country is going to spin completely out of control if Covid doesn't kill us all first.

[carmenjonze]

You are being manipulated.

More than 4-in-10 Republicans don't want schools teaching the history of racism whatsoever: new poll - BI

Association of Alaska School Boards meeting focused on Critical Race Theory - Must Read Alaska

‘How did we get here?’: Local representatives, Critical Race Theory, and how Texas laws treat students - KAMR/KCIT/KCPN

Critical race theory will not be included in new social studies standards - KRQE

Meghan McCain Made No Sense While Attempting To Talk About Critical Race Theory On Fox News - Uproxx

[carmenjonze]

The modern father of all this



https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-des ... normalized

allegedly said before he died he was sorry to do this to America. Right here on this board on a daily basis we can see how effective his work has been all these years later. It is the reason the country is going to spin completely out of control if Covid doesn't kill us all first.

Very good point about Lee Atwater.

Two whole generations of conservative whites have been duped by this guy, and the tactics are still going strong.

Their anti-CRT freakouts without even having read any CRT are just the latest iteration. There will be more iterations.

[sam lefthand]

You are being manipulated.

Naw, I'm not being manipulated, I'm retired, kids are raised, that's all for the younger generations now.

I'm older so I'm being thoroughly ignored, not manipulated.

[carmenjonze]

Read any actual CRT, lately?

[Libertas]

Read any actual CRT, lately?

I noticed none of them ever answer this.

It is quite fascinating stuff, actually (CRT), It makes perfect sense too.

Too bad they couldnt do a Dr. Seuss version of it for grade schoolers and white conservatives.

[carmenjonze]

I noticed none of them ever answer this.

It is quite fascinating stuff, actually (CRT), It makes perfect sense too.

Too bad they couldnt do a Dr. Seuss version of it for grade schoolers and white conservatives.

Yeah it is all pretty interesting, and very worth reading. But part of the problem is that there are plenty of left and liberal critiques of CRT. Like my critiques of the 1619 project, I have a few of my own. But that comes from having actually read the stuff for the past 2x years.

We know just how astroturfed this anti-CRT/anti-trans/anti-mask movement really is, because there are also plenty of rightwing criticisms of CRT over the years. But those things mainly happen in academic journals. It wasn't until the push last year by Chris Rufo, the Heritage Foundation, and Donald Trump's originating anti-1619 EO that the general public had even heard of critical race theory.

The way that CRT has been uncritically taken up by the news reports is that there's no room to even talk about what it actually is, let alone what the criticisms of it have been over the course of decades.

[gounion]

The right-wing think tanks were scared after the George Floyd murder, and the Black Lives Matter protests. They saw the American people didn't like what they saw - a plain old white supremacist lynching in front of the world. People of good conscience were repulsed.

And the think tanks were scared they were losing the debate - they had to keep white people SCARED of blacks, and HATING blacks. This wouldn't do!

So, they had CRT in their back pockets for a time like this. A way to stir back up a lot of hatred and fear of blacks. Another round of "the blacks are going to take over and rule over white people". And whites didn't like their children being taught the racist history of whites.

So it's back to book burning. It's been the playbook of the right for centuries.

[carmenjonze]

Yes but Sam Lefthand sez a TERF in England named Helen Pluckrose is uncomfortable about the way some people are talking about race!

So u better stop talking about race or else!

[gounion]

Sam, you think if we just pretend racism and white supremacy aren't happening, it'll go away.

Sorry, not interested in being "a good German". The ONLY way to combat injustice is to fight it.

Do you think Jim Crow would have gone away without the protests of the sixties? The Montgomery Bush Boycott?

No. The ONLY way to win justice is to fight for it.

"Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will."
-Frederick Douglass

[carmenjonze]

Sam, you think if we just pretend racism and white supremacy aren't happening, it'll go away.

Sorry, not interested in being "a good German". The ONLY way to combat injustice is to fight it.

Do you think Jim Crow would have gone away without the protests of the sixties? The Montgomery Bush Boycott?

No. The ONLY way to win justice is to fight for it.

"Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will."
-Frederick Douglass

Sam Lefthand embodies the pathologies of what MLK described as white moderates, the very people who facilitate white supremacism, all while pretending to be against it.

Lol this guy claims to have a transitioning kid. But when it's convenient, he'll fling the writings on "race" and "woke" of Helen Pluckrose, a British TERF, against the wall, in hopes of winning an internet argument.

Like the white moderates of that era, he is actively hostile to people and organizations fighting for justice. Like the white moderates of that era, he is in tight with today's white supremacists. Maybe he thinks Simon Legree will throw him a couple extra crumbs from the table for his efforts, dunno.

He hasn't thought these things through. It shows.

[sam lefthand]

Sam, you think if we just pretend racism and white supremacy aren't happening, it'll go away.

Sorry, not interested in being "a good German". The ONLY way to combat injustice is to fight it.

Do you think Jim Crow would have gone away without the protests of the sixties? The Montgomery Bush Boycott?

No. The ONLY way to win justice is to fight for it.

"Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will."
-Frederick Douglass

Under the terms under which it is being discussed here, I really don't give a fuck.



Stuff the "good German comment" up your ass.

[gounion]

Under the terms under which it is being discussed here, I really don't give a fuck.



Stuff the "good German comment" up your ass.

Yeah, I knew you wouldn't have a cogent rebuttal.

You never do.

[ProfX]

Helen Pluckrose is certainly talking about you Carmen, she has your number.

But what's her number?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helen_Pluckrose

Helen Pluckrose is a British author and cultural writer known for critiques of social justice and promotion of liberal ethics, most notably in the grievance studies affair.

[snip]

Pluckrose founded the "anti-woke" organization Counterweight as a reaction to the growth of implicit bias training and other forms of what Pluckrose calls "critical social justice ideology" in the workplace.[14] The group describes itself as a "non-partisan, grassroots movement advocating for liberal concepts of social justice".[15] Counterweight launched an online advice service in January 2021,[16] which Pluckrose described as "Citizens Advice for the culture wars".[14] The group published a video arguing that "woke" activism unfairly judges people by their gender, race and sex, and pledged to provide resources such as mental health support and "expert guidance.

[snip][end]

In this context, I suspect the authors and she mean "liberal" in the sense of "classical liberalism," i.e. right-libertarian.

P.S. this is one of her close colleagues and co-authors.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_A._Lindsay

Lindsay is a critic of woke culture, which he analogizes to religious belief.[25] He describes "the Social Justice Movement" as his "ideological enemy", and wrote an essay branding the movement as "critical social justice", arguing that "it's nearly always best to name your enemy something that they would or do call themselves."[26] In 2020, columnist Cathy Young described Lindsay as "an author with a large 'anti-woke' online following".[27] Despite opposing Donald Trump in the 2016 United States presidential election, Lindsay announced his intention to vote for Trump in the 2020 United States presidential election, citing a perceived illiberalism on the left as the reason.

[snip][end]

Nuff said. If you think social justice is your enemy and Trump is your friend, you're no friend of mine.

[gounion]

I find it astonishing that Sam thinks that a white woman in England sits in judgement in how blacks in America deal with racism in our country.

No, wait... It doesn't surprise me at all. Sam loves the idea of someone from afar, without a clue, telling people how to run their lives.

[sam lefthand]

But what's her number?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helen_Pluckrose

Helen Pluckrose is a British author and cultural writer known for critiques of social justice and promotion of liberal ethics, most notably in the grievance studies affair.

[snip]

Pluckrose founded the "anti-woke" organization Counterweight as a reaction to the growth of implicit bias training and other forms of what Pluckrose calls "critical social justice ideology" in the workplace.[14] The group describes itself as a "non-partisan, grassroots movement advocating for liberal concepts of social justice".[15] Counterweight launched an online advice service in January 2021,[16] which Pluckrose described as "Citizens Advice for the culture wars".[14] The group published a video arguing that "woke" activism unfairly judges people by their gender, race and sex, and pledged to provide resources such as mental health support and "expert guidance.

[snip][end]

In this context, I suspect the authors and she mean "liberal" in the sense of "classical liberalism," i.e. right-libertarian.

P.S. this is one of her close colleagues and co-authors.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_A._Lindsay

Lindsay is a critic of woke culture, which he analogizes to religious belief.[25] He describes "the Social Justice Movement" as his "ideological enemy", and wrote an essay branding the movement as "critical social justice", arguing that "it's nearly always best to name your enemy something that they would or do call themselves."[26] In 2020, columnist Cathy Young described Lindsay as "an author with a large 'anti-woke' online following".[27] Despite opposing Donald Trump in the 2016 United States presidential election, Lindsay announced his intention to vote for Trump in the 2020 United States presidential election, citing a perceived illiberalism on the left as the reason.

[snip][end]

Nuff said. If you think social justice is your enemy and Trump is your friend, you're no friend of mine.

Did you see my signature and that larger quote she wrote that I posted? That's the part I'm about. This that you dredged up to build up to making a smearing statement about me being:

"Nuff said. If you think social justice is your enemy and Trump is your friend, you're no friend of mine."

That's as good example of that Cancel Culture BS that the Cancel Culture warriors say doesn't exist, but does exist just like they used to say PC didn't exist, but it does exist.



When you know that I'm not about Trump at all, as you should know by now, but yet you still indulge in including Trump in your smear without basis, then go on to tell me "you're no friend of mine."

What bull shit. I thought you were supposed to be someone special not someone full of bull shit.

I guess I'm not "woke" enough.

[gounion]

Did you see my signature and that larger quote she wrote that I posted? That's the part I'm about. This that you dredged up to build up to making a smearing statement about me being:

"Nuff said. If you think social justice is your enemy and Trump is your friend, you're no friend of mine."

That's as good example of that Cancel Culture BS that the Cancel Culture warriors say doesn't exist, but does exist just like they used to say PC didn't exist, but it does exist.



When you know that I'm not about Trump at all, as you should know by now, but yet you still indulge in including Trump in your smear without basis, then go on to tell me "you're no friend of mine."

What bull shit. I thought you were supposed to be someone special not someone full of bull shit.

I guess I'm not "woke" enough.

So let me get this straight -

1. It's bad to call out racists for their racism. Just be quiet and let them let their racist freak flag fly.
2. It's fine to call people out - and even attack them - for being "woke".

Do I have that right?

[ProfX]

Did you see my signature and that larger quote she wrote that I posted? That's the part I'm about. This that you dredged up to build up to making a smearing statement about me being:

"Nuff said. If you think social justice is your enemy and Trump is your friend, you're no friend of mine."

No Sam. That statement is about James Lindsay, who co-wrote several papers and articles with Pluckrose. You are choosing to make it about you. Lindsay supported Trump in 2020. He is active in most of Pluckrose's organizations and endeavors.

People cite people, I tend to look at who they are citing. Always have, always will.

All your reactions that follow are based on assumptions you have chosen to make.