Elon Musk, rip-off King!

[Toonces]

https://theintercept.com/2023/09/15/uaw ... elon-musk/

After members of the United Auto Workers walked off the job at midnight, Twitter stripped the union of its account verification without notice, according to a UAW official. The account, as of publication time, lacked verification. The move by Elon Musk, owner of the microblogging platform he is attempting to rechristen from Twitter to X, followed the union’s decision to strike the Big Three automakers on Thursday night after the car companies refused to ink a new contract with their unionized workers.

Yes, the UAW had paid for the verification.

[ZoWie]

Sounds like lawyer time.

In other news...

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-66816507

Taiwan tells Elon Musk it is 'not for sale'

Taiwan has told billionaire Elon Musk it is "not for sale" after he said the island was a part of China.

"Listen up, Taiwan is not part of the PRC [People's Republic of China] & certainly not for sale!," foreign minister Joseph Wu said on Mr Musk's X.

At a business summit this week, Mr Musk compared Taiwan to Hawaii, calling it an "integral part" of China.

[Bludogdem]

Yeah, well, it's not a good thing.

The Russian fleet in question was shelling civilians and killing them. They were in Crimea, which is debatable as to whether it's Russian soil, though it's under Russian control. Starlink was already being used by the Ukrainians for other military operations. Musk says he was worried it would trigger a nuclear counterattack. Also his tech was not meant for military purposes - but uh, it was already being used that way (and now he says he IS working on a version for military purposes).

Now he also says he would have extended the range of Starlink if Biden told him to. So I guess he was fine with nuclear war as long as he was ordered to start it?

BTW, the Ukrainians just launched the kind of attack he was worried about, and no nuclear weapons used. I know the Kremlin keeps threatening it; I also know the Russians love their children, too. They may shell civilians, but they don't want nuclear winter.

[snip]

https://www.npr.org/2023/08/24/11954630 ... in-ukraine

FARROW: Yeah, and really said as much, virtually word-for-word. This was, in some ways, an unfamiliar situation because at the time that this story started unfolding, there wasn't a deal between Musk and the Pentagon to provide Starlink in Ukraine. Nevertheless, he was a private citizen with a private company who had become the arbiter of the outcome of this war. I mean, it's really very little overstatement to say that. This was absolutely essential in the eyes of everyone on the ground. And the government found itself in the unusual position of having no levers of control over the private individual who was about to determine so much.

So the plan was made for conversations to happen with him. There was a call, as you mentioned, from this official, Colin Kahl, at the Pentagon to Elon Musk. Elon also called General Milley, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, for advice about this. They are close. They've become friends. And Milley speaks highly of Musk in this piece.

Another interesting aspect of the balance of power you're asking about is that even to this day, there is a real reluctance on the part of government officials to talk openly about how frustrated and worried they were. You know, eventually over the course of this reporting, I got people to open up about that. But there's a real reluctance because they continue to fear aggravating someone who could so acutely affect how things are unfolding on the ground just with the flip of a switch.

[snip][end]

Yeah, freedom and democracy are a bitch.

[Bludogdem]

How so? Elon isn't our government.

You're just scared they would hurt your hero Putin. It's obvious you're pro-Russian.

Yeah, Russian fleet is sunk and they’re gonna say it was a private U.S. citizen so it’s okay.

[Toonces]

Update: It would seem the UAW changed their profile picture which triggered the loss of the blue check. The blue check has now, apparently, been restored.

Elon is still a dick.

[gounion]

Yeah, Russian fleet is sunk and they’re gonna say it was a private U.S. citizen so it’s okay.

We’re all glad you’re taking up for your buddy Vlad.

To me, what happens between him and Ukraine is his problem. But hey if your man Trump gets in, he can end all aid to Ukraine, handing it over to Vlad, as well as get us out of NATO, so you’ll have everything as you want it, right?

[ProfX]

Yeah, freedom and democracy are a bitch.

I'm fine with democracy. Corporatocracy and corporate oligarchy, not so much.

I don't see what's so democratic with allowing unelected and unaccountable billionaires ruling over so many of our lives - planetwide.

That's the point of Ronan Farrow's reporting: this Ukraine/Starlink story is simply one problem among many. And also, there's nothing unique about Elon, at least he just represents a kind of oligarch that is becoming all too prevalent in late-stage capitalism. Because of government underinvestment in public infrastructure, it's become more and more dependent on people like him.

[Glennfs]

We’re all glad you’re taking up for your buddy Vlad.

To me, what happens between him and Ukraine is his problem. But hey if your man Trump gets in, he can end all aid to Ukraine, handing it over to Vlad, as well as get us out of NATO, so you’ll have everything as you want it, right?

Today Thom Hartmann reported that Putin threatened Musk that he (Putin) would launch nukes if he ( Musk) didn't comply.

What would you do

[ProfX]

He can't seem to remember if he spoke to Putin or not (i.e. right before the incident reported on by Isaacson.)

Musk Told Pentagon He Spoke to Putin Directly, New Yorker Says
Magazine reports on October conversation with top official
SpaceX CEO later denied speaking with Russian president
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... #xj4y7vzkg

In October, he said he never spoke to Putin except for 18 months earlier, and just about "space". But not around the time of this incident, and never about the Ukraine war. Yet this wasn't what he initially told the Pentagon. Which is true?

Maybe it's that advanced dementia thing.

For his part, Vlad is a fan. As is Medvedev.
https://thehill.com/policy/internationa ... velations/

[gounion]

Today Thom Hartmann reported that Putin threatened Musk that he (Putin) would launch nukes if he ( Musk) didn't comply.

What would you do

Proof? You tend to mis-hear shit. I don’t find that anywhere. What I DO find is this: https://www.reuters.com/world/putin-hai ... 023-09-12/

Russian President Vladimir Putin on Tuesday hailed South African-born businessman Elon Musk as an "outstanding person" and businessman whose SpaceX company had become a major player in the space transportation industry.

Putin's public praise of Musk comes days after the U.S.-based entrepreneur said he refused a Ukrainian request last year to activate his Starlink satellite network in Crimea's port city of Sevastopol to aid an attack on Russia's fleet there, saying he feared complicity in a "major" act of war.

That’s Tuesday, three days ago.

Which side are you on? Putin’s?

[Bludogdem]

We’re all glad you’re taking up for your buddy Vlad.

To me, what happens between him and Ukraine is his problem. But hey if your man Trump gets in, he can end all aid to Ukraine, handing it over to Vlad, as well as get us out of NATO, so you’ll have everything as you want it, right?

So you think that Musk should have extended Starlink and a resulting destroyed Russian fleet would have been ok with Putin.

[gounion]

So you think that Musk should have extended Starlink and a resulting destroyed Russian fleet would have been ok with Putin.

You sure want to keep your hero Vlad happy, don’t you?

I can’t believe you commie-lovers!

[Toonces]

So you think that Musk should have extended Starlink and a resulting destroyed Russian fleet would have been ok with Putin.

Personally, I wouldn't care anything about what Putin thinks is ok.

It's a war. Having part of your fleet destroyed is part of war. If Putin didn't want Russian assets destroyed, he shouldn't have started the damned war.

[gounion]

Personally, I wouldn't care anything about what Putin thinks is ok.

It's a war. Having part of your fleet destroyed is part of war. If Putin didn't want Russian assets destroyed, he shouldn't have started the damned war.

Either Green Grass is scared shitless of Putin, or he loves him.

I’m not scared of Putin. Russia is a paper tiger, and they know they don’t want to fuck with us. If they did, and launched a nuke, they’d be wiped off the face of the earth.

But hey, looks to me like Green Grass is a fanboy.

[Bludogdem]

I'm fine with democracy. Corporatocracy and corporate oligarchy, not so much.

I don't see what's so democratic with allowing unelected and unaccountable billionaires ruling over so many of our lives - planetwide.

That's the point of Ronan Farrow's reporting: this Ukraine/Starlink story is simply one problem among many. And also, there's nothing unique about Elon, at least he just represents a kind of oligarch that is becoming all too prevalent in late-stage capitalism. Because of government underinvestment in public infrastructure, it's become more and more dependent on people like him.

Our internet public infrastructure seems fine. With a variety of providers. None of them Starlink. No real need for government interference there. People like musk fill the void left by the fools in government. Starlink/Ukraine situation is a one off which put Musk in the unenviable role being involved in war and left to make decisions. In this case he made a good decision not to engage in an action that could easily have escalated big time. And the government/military infrastructure is there and quite substantial. Musk was a convenient tool available to keep them from getting involved.

[Bludogdem]

Personally, I wouldn't care anything about what Putin thinks is ok.

It's a war. Having part of your fleet destroyed is part of war. If Putin didn't want Russian assets destroyed, he shouldn't have started the damned war.

So you think that there’s no risk of Putin escalating the war against the United States if his fleet were destroyed by the required action a United States citizen.

[gounion]

So you think that there’s no risk of Putin escalating the war against the United States if his fleet were destroyed by the required action a United States citizen.

It would be the Ukraine, not us. Since when do we control US citizens?

And Putin praises him, so looks to me like they’re buddies.

I’m sorry, you’re a fucking fanboy. That’s why you’re supporting the right, because you want us to get out of NATO, and let Putin have Ukraine.

That’s just fucked up.

[gounion]

So you think that there’s no risk of Putin escalating the war against the United States if his fleet were destroyed by the required action a United States citizen.

Go clutch your pearls, Neville Chamberlain.

We should stand up to the KGB Thug Vlad Putin.

History shows that appeasement doesn’t work.

[Toonces]

So you think that there’s no risk of Putin escalating the war against the United States if his fleet were destroyed by the required action a United States citizen.

There is very little chance of escalating the war. That's not to say he was never planning on doing it. If he rolled through Ukraine, Moldova and Poland would follow. Poland is the operative one there.

He knows he's in a bind from being bogged down in Ukraine and that he doesn't have the forces or equipment to take on the USA now. He's also not interested in nuclear war. He's an imperialist, and a nationalist (both intertwined for Putin). He's not going to risk the annihilation of Russia. The Russian people, on the other hand, will likely bear the brunt of his ire if he's convinced there is no way out of Ukraine. That's if he isn't taken out internally, first, which might well happen. I suspect that that contingency plan is just waiting for the word.

You can't really escalate a full-scale war, which is what it is. He doesn't have the resources to take things to a new level. He's not stupid but then, he's not brilliant either. When it comes right down to it, he's a criminal thug, nothing more and nothing less.

It's not a zero chance but it's pretty damned low. What happened cost plenty of civilian lives. So preventing the attack was absolutely the wrong thing. The USA and other countries have provided a lot of weaponry and other support which has led to the destruction of a lot of Russian targets, yet allowing the Ukrainians to be able to communicate would have crossed the line? No. However, the horrible Russian leadership's contribution to their failures shouldn't be overlooked.

[Bludogdem]

It would be the Ukraine, not us. Since when do we control US citizens?

And Putin praises him, so looks to me like they’re buddies.

I’m sorry, you’re a fucking fanboy. That’s why you’re supporting the right, because you want us to get out of NATO, and let Putin have Ukraine.

That’s just fucked up.

Ukraine could succeed only with the assistance and technology of a United States citizen. No other way.

I can’t believe you’re so stupid to think Putin wouldn’t retaliate if a United States citizen facilitated the destruction of the Russian fleet.

[Bludogdem]

There is very little chance of escalating the war. That's not to say he was never planning on doing it. If he rolled through Ukraine, Moldova and Poland would follow. Poland is the operative one there.

He knows he's in a bind from being bogged down in Ukraine and that he doesn't have the forces or equipment to take on the USA now. He's also not interested in nuclear war. He's an imperialist, and a nationalist (both intertwined for Putin). He's not going to risk the annihilation of Russia. The Russian people, on the other hand, will likely bear the brunt of his ire if he's convinced there is no way out of Ukraine. That's if he isn't taken out internally, first, which might well happen. I suspect that that contingency plan is just waiting for the word.

You can't really escalate a full-scale war, which is what it is. He doesn't have the resources to take things to a new level. He's not stupid but then, he's not brilliant either. When it comes right down to it, he's a criminal thug, nothing more and nothing less.

It's not a zero chance but it's pretty damned low. What happened cost plenty of civilian lives. So preventing the attack was absolutely the wrong thing. The USA and other countries have provided a lot of weaponry and other support which has led to the destruction of a lot of Russian targets, yet allowing the Ukrainians to be able to communicate would have crossed the line? No. However, the horrible Russian leadership's contribution to their failures shouldn't be overlooked.

It wasn’t allowing Ukrainians to communicate. It was allowing Starlink to navigate the drones, weapons of war, to destroy the Russian fleet. Outside Ukraine.

Fire a few dozen hypersonic missiles at United States naval vessels in retaliation.

[bradman]

It wasn’t allowing Ukrainians to communicate. It was allowing Starlink to navigate the drones, weapons of war, to destroy the Russian fleet. Outside Ukraine.

Fire a few dozen hypersonic missiles at United States naval vessels in retaliation.

Pussy.

No guts no glory.

[Bludogdem]

Pussy.

No guts no glory.

Actually I might do something that stupid. Glad it was Musk’s decision.

[bradman]

Actually I might do something that stupid. Glad it was Musk’s decision.

i can see why he's worried.

Dupont was a strange animal.

[Toonces]

It wasn’t allowing Ukrainians to communicate. It was allowing Starlink to navigate the drones, weapons of war, to destroy the Russian fleet. Outside Ukraine.

Fire a few dozen hypersonic missiles at United States naval vessels in retaliation.

Starlink is about communication.

You asked me, I answered. If you don't care about my answers, don't ask me questions.

I'm not a Putin expert but it would appear that I might just have a better grasp of who he is than you. I mean, I typed several paragraphs and you want to zero in on the "communication" part.

Ukraine felt OK with the decision to attack the fleet and I'm pretty sure they kept the US in the loop. Yet, apparently, people are fine with Elon basically over-ruling military leadership? I guess I could be wrong. Tell me, just what are Elon's credentials when it comes to something like this? Why does he know better than those running the war? He could be learning, I suppose, considering he talks with Putin. Who knows what they talk about, could be hockey. Perhaps knowing when to invest in something or self-promotion makes one a military genius, Lord knows Musk doesn't have anything else to offer.

Anyway, the point now seems to be moo <sic> Ukraine subsequently did bomb the fleet and there has been no escalation.

Unless you're actually interested in a serious discussion, do me a favor and just ignore me. Or, perhaps, I should ignore you.