Hamas fires 7000 rockets at Israel, starting major war

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Toonces
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Re: Hamas fires 7000 rockets at Israel, starting major war

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heh Jeffrey Lord. He really knows how to pick his friends, doesn't he?

Russia's support of Hamas is one of them open secrets.
Motor City
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Re: Hamas fires 7000 rockets at Israel, starting major war

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Thousands call for end to airstrikes on Gaza in Downtown Detroit march
"I want you to look around and see the diverse mass of people here," said Amer Zahr, president of the New Generation for Palestine. "Palestinians, Arabs, Muslims, Christians, Jews, Asians, Latinos, Africans, African Americans, white people, straight people, gay people, workers, Republicans, Democrats, all political parties, all persuasions, all classes, all people to say in one loud voice: cease-fire now."

Speakers from a variety of the 50 community organizations that partnered in the gathering took to the stage, capturing their fear, anger and grief within their speeches to inspire the crowd.

“As proud Jewish Americans whose families were directly impacted by the Holocaust, we know what happens when people are called animals, and we cannot be silent,” said Joshua Feinstein of the group Jewish Voice for Peace. “Never again means never again, not just for the Jewish people, but for anyone and everyone everywhere.”......
Michigan doctor says he's lost 20 family members in Gaza bombardment
Emad Shehada's sister in Gaza said she could smell the blood of their 12 family members, including a child, killed Wednesday night in an Israeli airstrike that hit the home next to hers.

The metallic smell grew stronger when she discovered portions of human flesh that crashed through a window of her southwest Gaza home.

She could see the limbs of her relatives in the rubble. They were killed while praying, she said.

The family lost eight others, some children, just days prior, in the bombardment of the Gaza Strip, Shehada said.

Shehada, a local pulmonologist, said he has felt helpless and hopeless since war broke out between Israel and Hamas on Oct. 7. It's a hopelessness that keeps "creeping into my soul every day," he said.

"There’s nowhere to go. Families are hiding together, and they are going to be targeted together," said Shehada, 47, of West Bloomfield.
UN urges cease-fire

The World Health Organization appealed to "the humanity in all those who have the power to do so to end the fighting now" in Gaza. "There are more wounded every hour. But ambulances cannot reach them in the communications blackout. Morgues are full. More than half of the dead are women and children," it said.

Palestinians say the war was also robbing them of the funeral rites that long have offered mourners some dignity and closure. Overcrowded cemeteries have compelled families to dig up long-buried bodies and deepen the holes.

More than 1.4 million people across Gaza have fled their homes, nearly half crowding into U.N. schools and shelters, following repeated warnings by the Israeli military that they would be in grave danger if they remained in northern Gaza.

A large number of residents have not evacuated to the south, in part because Israel has also bombarded targets in so-called safe zones where conditions are increasingly dire. Food and water supplies were running out. Israel knocked out electricity early in the war....

.....In Cairo, Egyptian President Abdel Fattah el-Sissi said his government was working to de-escalate the conflict through its talks with the warring parties to release prisoners and hostages. On Saturday, he spoke with U.N. Secretary-General Antonio Guterres, his office said.

Guterres in a statement said he was "surprised by an unprecedented escalation of the bombardments and their devastating impacts" in Gaza.
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Motor City
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Re: Hamas fires 7000 rockets at Israel, starting major war

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Pope calls for ceasefire, freeing hostages
...In his weekly address from St. Peter's Square, Pope Francis called Sunday for a ceasefire and for hostages to be released. He also asked the faithful to pray for an end to the violence and for humanitarian aid to enter Gaza.

"Stop, brothers and sisters: war is always a defeat − always, always," Francis said, according to the Vatican....
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Motor City
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Re: Hamas fires 7000 rockets at Israel, starting major war

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHDBw-wx6w0

Dr. Gabor Maté on Israel/Palestine - October 28, 2023
Dr. Gabor Maté shares his reflections on Israel/Palestine including recent tragic events on and following October 7th, 2023. This conversation was recorded on October 28, 2023, and was facilitated by Hannah Maté. Please be mindful to engage in respectful discourse in the comments amidst inevitable political disagreement on this subject matter.



Places to donate:

The Palestinian Children’s Relief Fund - www.pcrf.net

Dror Israel - www.drorisrael.org

Please share additional worthy causes in the comments



Social media handles/links of voices/activism on the topic of Israel/Palestine:

Jewish Voice for Peace - @Jewishvoiceforpeace

Independent Jewish Voices - www. ijvcanada.og

If Not Now - @Ifnotnoworg

Democracy Now! - @democracynow

Gideon Levy - @levy_haaretz

Amira Hass - @Hass_Haaretz

Chris Hedges - @chrislynnhedges

Norman Finkelstein - @normfinkelstein

The Grayzone News - @thegrayzonenews

Ali Abunimah - @aliabunimah - and The Electronic Intifada https://electronicintifada.net/

Yousef Munayyer - @yousefmunayyer

Noura Erakat - @4noura

Aaron Maté - @aaronjmate

Daniel Maté - @danielbmate



Books recommended by Gabor in this video:

The Birth of Israel: Myths and Realities by Simha Flapan

The Hundred Years' War on Palestine: A History of Settler Colonialism and Resistance, 1917–2017 by Rashid Khalidi

Gaza: An Inquest Into Its Martyrdom by Norman Finkelstein

The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine by Ilan Pappé
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Motor City
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Re: Hamas fires 7000 rockets at Israel, starting major war

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US has an obligation to save lives. We need to de-escalate Israel-Hamas war.

Dan Kildee
....I am gravely concerned with the growing loss of human life in the Middle East, and the worsening humanitarian crisis in Gaza. An immediate humanitarian pause in hostilities, on all sides, is necessary to secure the safe return of hostages, prevent further loss of life and allow the delivery of lifesaving aid to innocent civilians.

Israeli military air strikes have already killed thousands of innocent civilians and displaced over a million people in Gaza. And with each passing day, the death toll rises. Hundreds of thousands more lives are now at imminent risk with the ongoing Israeli ground invasion of Gaza, which will also make delivering humanitarian aid more difficult......

...We must work quickly to surge deliveries of food, water, and energy to ensure that innocent civilians have the life-saving essentials they need to survive. Depriving millions of Palestinian civilians — half of whom are children — of these necessities is a violation of international law.

Additionally, expecting 1 million people—more than the populations of Detroit, Flint, Sterling Heights, Dearborn and Ann Arbor combined—to leave their homes in northern Gaza within 24 hours, as Israel has demanded, is unrealistic, and an impossible task. While hundreds of thousands have fled south for safety, Israel has continued to bomb targets in southern Gaza, too. Gaza has been subject to a blockade by Israel and Egypt for decades, not only of food, water and energy, but the free movement of people. We must recognize that civilians in Gaza have nowhere else to go to protect themselves and their families. ....
more at link
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Toonces
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Re: Hamas fires 7000 rockets at Israel, starting major war

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Motor City
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Re: Hamas fires 7000 rockets at Israel, starting major war

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQJxNBOOGHw

There is a humanitarian disaster in Gaza. Congress must act. Senator Bernie Sanders
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JoeMemphis
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Re: Hamas fires 7000 rockets at Israel, starting major war

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Motor City wrote: Thu Nov 02, 2023 2:43 pm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQJxNBOOGHw

There is a humanitarian disaster in Gaza. Congress must act. Senator Bernie Sanders
I hear folks talk about how this won’t work with Hamas. Sen Sanders said as much. Problem is that Hamas is the elected government in Gaza. So I haven’t heard how to work around that.

Seems to me this is about Hamas and their sponsors in Iran. They are embedded and in many instances supported by at least some Palestinians in Gaza. I don’t see how you displace them without the use of force and I don’t see Israel allowing them to remain a threat after Oct 7.

So I don’t know what the alternative is at this point. I think the Israelis are going to do what they believe they need to do and I don’t see that we can do anything but support the effort.
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Re: Hamas fires 7000 rockets at Israel, starting major war

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Not quite that simple.

I'm still under strict radio silence, so any opinions I have on this whole thing are not for broadcast. I'm just passing along history as I understand it.

Gaza DID elect Hamas, but it was the moderate wing of Hamas. The radical terrorist wing of Hamas, which gets considerable aid from the usual suspects in that region, killed or marginalized most of the moderates, and took over the government of Gaza. At that point, Israel sealed off its border. Egypt followed suit at some later date, and from then on Gaza was a forbidden zone, entry or exit of which was not a simple matter. The population increased to the point where it became very dense and overcrowded, and there were few places to go if war or disaster happened.

Since the world had pretty much left Gaza to fester, ultimately we got a situation in which Hamas was able to dig something like 150 miles of tunnels under everything. The problems we're seeing right now are mostly due to the tunnels. Many of them are actually quite large and well lighted, with large underground rooms that serve as command posts, ammo caches, concealed rocket bases, and good places to disappear. In classic terrorist human-shield tradition, many of the key military targets seem to be right under things it's really not nice to destroy, such as mosques, hospitals, and orphanages.

This adds a huge moral complication to all this, and it's a mess, where anyone in any position to become involved is damned if they do and damned if they don't. The tightly sealed off nature of Gaza's huge population is a recipe for another mess, and one easily exploited by Hamas. Before the war, 550 truckloads of goods passed into Gaza every day. Now it's down to more like 20. Everything's running out.

You don't even have to keep the human shields from escaping, because there is no escape. There is nowhere to go in what is essentially a giant cage. Existing paradigms of war and defense simply don't deal with this situation. It creates a very nasty paradox in which the winner of the war automatically loses the peace, guaranteeing another generation of war, and an essentially self-maintaining situation that transcends the human life span.

In general, we are confronted here with some very nasty stuff.
"We must remember that we cannot abandon the truth and remain a free nation." --Liz Cheney, Republican, 7/21/22
JoeMemphis
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Re: Hamas fires 7000 rockets at Israel, starting major war

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ZoWie wrote: Thu Nov 02, 2023 3:45 pm Not quite that simple.

I'm still under strict radio silence, so any opinions I have on this whole thing are not for broadcast. I'm just passing along history as I understand it.

Gaza DID elect Hamas, but it was the moderate wing of Hamas. The radical terrorist wing of Hamas, which gets considerable aid from the usual suspects in that region, killed or marginalized most of the moderates, and took over the government of Gaza. At that point, Israel sealed off its border. Egypt followed suit at some later date, and from then on Gaza was a forbidden zone, entry or exit of which was not a simple matter. The population increased to the point where it became very dense and overcrowded, and there were few places to go if war or disaster happened.

Since the world had pretty much left Gaza to fester, ultimately we got a situation in which Hamas was able to dig something like 150 miles of tunnels under everything. The problems we're seeing right now are mostly due to the tunnels. Many of them are actually quite large and well lighted, with large underground rooms that serve as command posts, ammo caches, concealed rocket bases, and good places to disappear. In classic terrorist human-shield tradition, many of the key military targets seem to be right under things it's really not nice to destroy, such as mosques, hospitals, and orphanages.

This adds a huge moral complication to all this, and it's a mess, where anyone in any position to become involved is damned if they do and damned if they don't. The tightly sealed off nature of Gaza's huge population is a recipe for another mess, and one easily exploited by Hamas. Before the war, 550 truckloads of goods passed into Gaza every day. Now it's down to more like 20. Everything's running out.

You don't even have to keep the human shields from escaping, because there is no escape. There is nowhere to go in what is essentially a giant cage. Existing paradigms of war and defense simply don't deal with this situation. It creates a very nasty paradox in which the winner of the war automatically loses the peace, guaranteeing another generation of war, and an essentially self-maintaining situation that transcends the human life span.

In general, we are confronted here with some very nasty stuff.
Sounds like you don’t have any easy answers either. Damned if you do and damned if you don’t. It sucks all round.
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Re: Hamas fires 7000 rockets at Israel, starting major war

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ZoWie wrote: Thu Nov 02, 2023 3:45 pm Not quite that simple.

I'm still under strict radio silence, so any opinions I have on this whole thing are not for broadcast. I'm just passing along history as I understand it.

Gaza DID elect Hamas, but it was the moderate wing of Hamas. The radical terrorist wing of Hamas, which gets considerable aid from the usual suspects in that region, killed or marginalized most of the moderates, and took over the government of Gaza. At that point, Israel sealed off its border. Egypt followed suit at some later date, and from then on Gaza was a forbidden zone, entry or exit of which was not a simple matter. The population increased to the point where it became very dense and overcrowded, and there were few places to go if war or disaster happened.

Since the world had pretty much left Gaza to fester, ultimately we got a situation in which Hamas was able to dig something like 150 miles of tunnels under everything. The problems we're seeing right now are mostly due to the tunnels. Many of them are actually quite large and well lighted, with large underground rooms that serve as command posts, ammo caches, concealed rocket bases, and good places to disappear. In classic terrorist human-shield tradition, many of the key military targets seem to be right under things it's really not nice to destroy, such as mosques, hospitals, and orphanages.

This adds a huge moral complication to all this, and it's a mess, where anyone in any position to become involved is damned if they do and damned if they don't. The tightly sealed off nature of Gaza's huge population is a recipe for another mess, and one easily exploited by Hamas. Before the war, 550 truckloads of goods passed into Gaza every day. Now it's down to more like 20. Everything's running out.

You don't even have to keep the human shields from escaping, because there is no escape. There is nowhere to go in what is essentially a giant cage. Existing paradigms of war and defense simply don't deal with this situation. It creates a very nasty paradox in which the winner of the war automatically loses the peace, guaranteeing another generation of war, and an essentially self-maintaining situation that transcends the human life span.

In general, we are confronted here with some very nasty stuff.
[bold] All they are doing is creating new enemies, new terrorists.
I am not a member of any organized political party. I am a Democrat. [Will Rogers]
JoeMemphis
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Re: Hamas fires 7000 rockets at Israel, starting major war

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bradman wrote: Thu Nov 02, 2023 8:01 pm [bold] All they are doing is creating new enemies, new terrorists.
While that may be true, what is Israel to do? Hamas already hates them. That can’t much worse. So don’t leave them operational on your border or do you go in there and take care of todays problem and hope you can deal with tomorrows problems somewhere down the line.

I hear all this talk about a “pause” or a ceasefire. To what end? What will change. Will they be back here in another few years after another senseless attack on their citizens.

I don’t see how the country of Israel, surrounded by countries/tribes that haven’t always had their best interest at heart, can allow an openly hostile threat to remain intact on their border after Oct 7. How does one ask them to do that?
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Re: Hamas fires 7000 rockets at Israel, starting major war

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JoeMemphis wrote: Thu Nov 02, 2023 8:17 pm While that may be true, what is Israel to do? Hamas already hates them. That can’t much worse. So don’t leave them operational on your border or do you go in there and take care of todays problem and hope you can deal with tomorrows problems somewhere down the line.

I hear all this talk about a “pause” or a ceasefire. To what end? What will change. Will they be back here in another few years after another senseless attack on their citizens.

I don’t see how the country of Israel, surrounded by countries/tribes that haven’t always had their best interest at heart, can allow an openly hostile threat to remain intact on their border after Oct 7. How does one ask them to do that?
It depends upon if one believes Israel has the right to exist. Some do, some don't.

The solution they've chosen is the same mistake that's been going on for centuries now. It creates new enemies.

(See MC. ;) He has a point.)
I am not a member of any organized political party. I am a Democrat. [Will Rogers]
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Re: Hamas fires 7000 rockets at Israel, starting major war

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bradman wrote: Thu Nov 02, 2023 8:28 pm It depends upon if one believes Israel has the right to exist. Some do, some don't.

The solution they've chosen is the same mistake that's been going on for centuries now. It creates new enemies.

(See MC. ;) He has a point.)
There is no solution to the problem that Hamas will accept short of killing every Jewish person in Israel.
As is their stated goal.
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JoeMemphis
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Re: Hamas fires 7000 rockets at Israel, starting major war

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bradman wrote: Thu Nov 02, 2023 8:28 pm It depends upon if one believes Israel has the right to exist. Some do, some don't.

The solution they've chosen is the same mistake that's been going on for centuries now. It creates new enemies.

(See MC. ;) He has a point.)
Well count me as one of those who believes Israel has a right to exist. But that aside, we are where we are. The question is how do you move forward. I don’t see a solution here. I don’t believe a pause or ceasefire will do anything but work to the benefit of Hamas and the Iranians. I don’t see where or how that works for anybody. There is going to be a fight. The question is when and how many men and women you want to lose. Clearly Hamas doesn’t give a shit for their people.
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Re: Hamas fires 7000 rockets at Israel, starting major war

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Much wisdom here. If you listen to anything about the ongoing conflict listen to this.

SPECIAL | One Israeli and one Palestinian cry together for peace
Smadar Elhanan, a 14-year-old Israeli, and Abir Aramin, a 10-year-old Palestinian, are just two of many civilians killed in decades of violence.
Have to break away from the enslavement to war and violence. Part of that comes from inside of us, in how we think and feel and behave.
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JoeMemphis
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Re: Hamas fires 7000 rockets at Israel, starting major war

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Motor City wrote: Thu Nov 02, 2023 11:52 pm Much wisdom here. If you listen to anything about the ongoing conflict listen to this.

SPECIAL | One Israeli and one Palestinian cry together for peace



Have to break away from the enslavement to war and violence. Part of that comes from inside of us, in how we think and feel and behave.
I would think breaking away from the enslavement to war and violence is difficult when you are being attacked. Both parties have to want peace. I don’t believe Hamas wants peace. I don’t believe Iran wants peace. I don’t believe a great deal of Palestinians want peace. I’m sure the Israelis that were attacked aren’t interested in peace talks right now. It’s tribal. It’s about religion. It’s about the land.

There are some folks who will never want peace. At least not with certain people. Hamas may fit that group.
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Re: Hamas fires 7000 rockets at Israel, starting major war

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Iran was exploited for too long under the Shah, and now it's a great example of how big a mess you can get a country into if you piss off enough people for long enough. Among other things, they helped Kim get his very own bomb, and of course they support terrorist groups with stone age mythologies.

Mostly, it's a monument to how bad things can get if you prop up an unpopular despot for too long. It's asking for trouble every time.
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Re: Hamas fires 7000 rockets at Israel, starting major war

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White House denounces Fox News anchor’s CNN comments

The White House joined CNN in denouncing Fox News radio host Mark Levin after he attacked the Jewish heritage of two CNN anchors.

On his radio show this week, Levin — who is also Jewish — described CNN anchors Wolf Blitzer and Jake Tapper as “self-hating Jews” during a diatribe criticizing the network’s coverage of Israel’s war against Hamas in Gaza.

https://thehill.com/homenews/media/4293 ... -comments/
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Re: Hamas fires 7000 rockets at Israel, starting major war

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ap215 wrote: Sat Nov 04, 2023 10:42 am White House denounces Fox News anchor’s CNN comments

The White House joined CNN in denouncing Fox News radio host Mark Levin after he attacked the Jewish heritage of two CNN anchors.

On his radio show this week, Levin — who is also Jewish — described CNN anchors Wolf Blitzer and Jake Tapper as “self-hating Jews” during a diatribe criticizing the network’s coverage of Israel’s war against Hamas in Gaza.

https://thehill.com/homenews/media/4293 ... -comments/

That they denounce but, when Talib says president Biden and the USA are funding and supporting genocide they don't say a thing.
Just like the liberals here won't say a thing
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Motor City
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Re: Hamas fires 7000 rockets at Israel, starting major war

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8vbc5eN-XI
War No More

Michael Moore takes his podcast to Grand Central Station where hundreds of Jewish New Yorkers are arrested during a sit-in for peace, demanding that all sides lay down their arms and create a cease-fire in Israel and Gaza.
https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/take-action/

The song featured in the video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPoVzH20ZeA
Because I Could Not Stop For Death

A million people on the run some elderly and immobile others disabled and vulnerable most being children and civillians, having no where to go to as they are shot and bombed and starved of water food electricity and medical care, I think the world will gasp when they see whats happening and what they are funding and supporting.
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Re: Hamas fires 7000 rockets at Israel, starting major war

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Wow, if that's what really happened at GCT, it explains a lot. I was in New York at the time and lucky I took the Q train (stops at 42nd and Broadway) instead of the 6 (stops at GCT).

All we got from the Nooz was that there was some kind of rumble. It was around the time that DHS started posting troops wearing camo and toting automatic rifles at key transit stations and airport terminals.

My opinion of the Middle East situation is covered by wartime radio silence. Loose lips sink ships. Internet rants cause bloody pants. Whatever you say at your house.
"We must remember that we cannot abandon the truth and remain a free nation." --Liz Cheney, Republican, 7/21/22
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Re: Hamas fires 7000 rockets at Israel, starting major war

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JoeMemphis wrote: Thu Nov 02, 2023 10:52 pm Well count me as one of those who believes Israel has a right to exist. But that aside, we are where we are. The question is how do you move forward. I don’t see a solution here. I don’t believe a pause or ceasefire will do anything but work to the benefit of Hamas and the Iranians. I don’t see where or how that works for anybody. There is going to be a fight. The question is when and how many men and women you want to lose. Clearly Hamas doesn’t give a shit for their people.
Simple question then.

Would you believe Ukraine has the same right?
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Toonces
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Re: Hamas fires 7000 rockets at Israel, starting major war

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Ukraine has a right to exist

Israel has a right to exist

Palestine has a right to exist

This isn't hard.
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Re: Hamas fires 7000 rockets at Israel, starting major war

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Toonces wrote: Sun Nov 05, 2023 7:09 pm Ukraine has a right to exist

Israel has a right to exist

Palestine has a right to exist

This isn't hard.
Ya wouldn't think so now would ya.

And yet here we are.
I am not a member of any organized political party. I am a Democrat. [Will Rogers]
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