Wealth vs. Income

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Number6
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Re: Wealth vs. Income

Post by Number6 »

Glennfs wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 5:29 pm While on paper GoU might be correct. As I recall the very first thing we had to do was fill out a FAFSA. While it might not have been required it was presented as such.
Once you fill it out they take your figures then tell you how much tuition you will be required to pay.
The tuition we see and hear about is tantamount to the full sticker price. Something very few wind up paying. Again it's been over 20 years but as I recall the full sticker was around 9500 and we paid around 7500.
Again, that's true if you're applying for financial aid. If you're not applying then there's no reason for it.

Strange, you thing the government subsidizing things to the public is communism/socialism and yet you accepted government subsidizes for your kid(s) education.
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gounion
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Re: Wealth vs. Income

Post by gounion »

Glennfs wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 5:29 pm While on paper GoU might be correct. As I recall the very first thing we had to do was fill out a FAFSA. While it might not have been required it was presented as such.
Once you fill it out they take your figures then tell you how much tuition you will be required to pay.
The tuition we see and hear about is tantamount to the full sticker price. Something very few wind up paying. Again it's been over 20 years but as I recall the full sticker was around 9500 and we paid around 7500.
That's because you wanted free government money Glenn. You wanted subsidized government loans.

You go to any state school, there's a stated tuition price. You want to pay that, they don't have to know your financial history.
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Number6
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Re: Wealth vs. Income

Post by Number6 »

gounion wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 5:33 pm That's because you wanted free government money Glenn. You wanted subsidized government loans.

You go to any state school, there's a stated tuition price. You want to pay that, they don't have to know your financial history.
And then, in hypocritical fashion, he criticizes others who accept government subsidizes. :roll:
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Motor City
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Re: Wealth vs. Income

Post by Motor City »

Number6 wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 5:30 pm All the contractors would do is raise the cost of supplies, products, and services. I've dealt with government contracts and while they have a healthy markup the government usually gets gets a good price on what they buy. I'm sure glenn will reply with the $600 hammers and other myths.
Its ok If they raise the prices it'll come back in the tax revenue and if it gets too expensive the military can make their own supplies cheaper and cut em out all together.
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Glennfs
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Re: Wealth vs. Income

Post by Glennfs »

gounion wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 5:33 pm That's because you wanted free government money Glenn. You wanted subsidized government loans.

You go to any state school, there's a stated tuition price. You want to pay that, they don't have to know your financial history.
No that is because how the system works. You know 0.0 of what you are talking about. We recieved zero government money. We did receive the state lottery scholarship.
At the end of the day my daughter owed around 150,000 on loans
Again you know nothing about the process.
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Re: Wealth vs. Income

Post by Glennfs »

Number6 wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 5:36 pm And then, in hypocritical fashion, he criticizes others who accept government subsidizes. :roll:
No we recieved no government support or subsidies
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Re: Wealth vs. Income

Post by Glennfs »

Number6 wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 5:36 pm And then, in hypocritical fashion, he criticizes others who accept government subsidizes. :roll:
So how many children have you or GoU sent to college. Neither of you know anything about the process
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gounion
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Re: Wealth vs. Income

Post by gounion »

Glennfs wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 5:38 pm No we recieved no government support or subsidies
College loans are governmentally guaranteed and subsidized.
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Re: Wealth vs. Income

Post by gounion »

Glennfs wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 5:40 pm So how many children have you or GoU sent to college. Neither of you know anything about the process
No, I've just got facts and common sense. GreenGrass thinks the college can demand to see every child's parents financial history, and they can't demand that.
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Re: Wealth vs. Income

Post by Glennfs »

gounion wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 5:42 pm No, I've just got facts and common sense. GreenGrass thinks the college can demand to see every child's parents financial history, and they can't demand that.
Again perception vs reality. They hand you a package and say fill out these forms. They don't indicate anything about how some are mandatory and others aren't.
But, unless you are independently wealthy you fill out the forms.
If you start making a stink about this form or that form your kids chance of being accepted just went to near zero.

It is like a job interview you don't go to a job interview and start questioning the process if you expect to get hired.
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Number6
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Re: Wealth vs. Income

Post by Number6 »

Motor City wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 5:37 pm Its ok If they raise the prices it'll come back in the tax revenue and if it gets too expensive the military can make their own supplies cheaper and cut em out all together.
What you're proposing would encourage fraud, waste, and abuse. It would be simpler to avoid having more money going from the government to a company and then back to the government. The government would incur more costs keeping track of that money than it would in the first place.

As for having the military making their own supplies, that's a laugh. How would they have the capabilities to manufacture an engine for an F-35 Raptor, a propulsion system for an aircraft carrier, or make toilet paper for their tushes? The number of people the military is around 1.3 million with another 2.2 in the reserves for a total force of 3.5 million people. For the military make their own supplies would require the military and it's civilian force to grow, IMO, around five times it's present force. The military has to rely on the manufacturing capacities and services industries of this country to operate. The problem is much of the manufacturing capacity of the U.S. has been relocated to China.
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Number6
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Re: Wealth vs. Income

Post by Number6 »

Glennfs wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 5:38 pm No we recieved no government support or subsidies
Did you not have a daughter who joined the National Guard/Reserves so she could qualify for educational benefits? That's a government subsidy.
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Re: Wealth vs. Income

Post by gounion »

Glennfs wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 5:47 pm Again perception vs reality. They hand you a package and say fill out these forms. They don't indicate anything about how some are mandatory and others aren't.
But, unless you are independently wealthy you fill out the forms.
If you start making a stink about this form or that form your kids chance of being accepted just went to near zero.

It is like a job interview you don't go to a job interview and start questioning the process if you expect to get hired.
Nope, you say "I'm writing a check" they will be good. But if you're not paying cash, need loans and looking for other free money, you fill them out.

Which IS how most families do it. I admit that.

But GreenGrass was telling us that the college demands - and has the right - to know everything about every child's family's finances, even if they're rich. And that's bullshit.

Tell me, Glenn. Do you think Trump had to give up his whole history to put his kids in college? Do you think he'd want anyone to know everything about him?
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Re: Wealth vs. Income

Post by Glennfs »

Number6 wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 5:50 pm Did you not have a daughter who joined the National Guard/Reserves so she could qualify for educational benefits? That's a government subsidy.
Those are earned as part of her pay package. If a person agrees to die for our freedom they have earned that so called government benefit.
BTW that daughter hasn't gone to college and works just a regular job.
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gounion
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Re: Wealth vs. Income

Post by gounion »

Number6 wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 5:48 pm What you're proposing would encourage fraud, waste, and abuse. It would be simpler to avoid having more money going from the government to a company and then back to the government. The government would incur more costs keeping track of that money than it would in the first place.

As for having the military making their own supplies, that's a laugh. How would they have the capabilities to manufacture an engine for an F-35 Raptor, a propulsion system for an aircraft carrier, or make toilet paper for their tushes? The number of people the military is around 1.3 million with another 2.2 in the reserves for a total force of 3.5 million people. For the military make their own supplies would require the military and it's civilian force to grow, IMO, around five times it's present force. The military has to rely on the manufacturing capacities and services industries of this country to operate. The problem is much of the manufacturing capacity of the U.S. has been relocated to China.
And somehow, conservatives are fine with us relying on Communist China for our military manufacturing.

The conservatives on this board won't listen to me when I call a warning about this.
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Number6
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Re: Wealth vs. Income

Post by Number6 »

Glennfs wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 5:47 pm Again perception vs reality. They hand you a package and say fill out these forms. They don't indicate anything about how some are mandatory and others aren't.
But, unless you are independently wealthy you fill out the forms.
If you start making a stink about this form or that form your kids chance of being accepted just went to near zero.
So you just mindlessly fill out everything they hand you? Please, if you get a phone call from a Nigerian prince who wants you to help him get gold out of his country or someone saying you owe money and you have to buy prepaid debit cards and read them the numbers just hang up. I know whenever I fill out a form and they're asking me questions about my finances I question the need for the information. As you said, the forms you filled out were to determine how much tuition you'd have to pay which is a subsidy.
It is like a job interview you don't go to a job interview and start questioning the process if you expect to get hired.
Not anything close. I doubt a job applicant is going to have to fill out a form listing the assets. :roll:
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Number6
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Re: Wealth vs. Income

Post by Number6 »

Glennfs wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 5:53 pm Those are earned as part of her pay package. If a person agrees to die for our freedom they have earned that so called government benefit.
No one in the military agrees to die for our freedom. We take an oath to protect and defend the Constitution and the United States of America.
BTW that daughter hasn't gone to college and works just a regular job.
But those benefits are still available to her, right? Those benefits are subsidies just like my medical care with Tricare for Life is subsidized by the government. Call it a benefit or a subsidy, it's the same thing.
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Re: Wealth vs. Income

Post by Glennfs »

gounion wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 5:52 pm Nope, you say "I'm writing a check" they will be good. But if you're not paying cash, need loans and looking for other free money, you fill them out.

Which IS how most families do it. I admit that.

But GreenGrass was telling us that the college demands - and has the right - to know everything about every child's family's finances, even if they're rich. And that's bullshit.

Tell me, Glenn. Do you think Trump had to give up his whole history to put his kids in college? Do you think he'd want anyone to know everything about him?
There you go comparing the top 1pct to the rest of us.

Again there is perception vs reality. You have all these high and mighty ideals about situations you will never be in. Hiw to address the police and now how to get admitted to college are the latest.
You go to the admissions office and start being arrogant and your kid will not get accepted.
If you are a regular Joe you jump through the hoops they put in front of you. That is the reallity.
Plus if your kid went to some high dollar prep school the admissions department won't be concerned with your ability to pay.
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Re: Wealth vs. Income

Post by Glennfs »

Number6 wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 5:57 pm No one in the military agrees to die for our freedom. We take an oath to protect and defend the Constitution and the United States of America.


But those benefits are still available to her, right? Those benefits are subsidies just like my medical care with Tricare for Life is subsidized by the government. Call it a benefit or a subsidy, it's the same thing.
Yes she earned them as part of her pay package. Just like you earned your HC benefits. To compare that to a government subsidy is splitting hairs.
Any person who went into the military and received a honorable discharge earned and deserves everything that get.
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Re: Wealth vs. Income

Post by gounion »

Glennfs wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 5:58 pm There you go comparing the top 1pct to the rest of us.

Again there is perception vs reality. You have all these high and mighty ideals about situations you will never be in. Hiw to address the police and now how to get admitted to college are the latest.
You go to the admissions office and start being arrogant and your kid will not get accepted.
If you are a regular Joe you jump through the hoops they put in front of you. That is the reallity.
Plus if your kid went to some high dollar prep school the admissions department won't be concerned with your ability to pay.
I was heavily involved in a free college benefit the labor movement is offering to their membership, so I may know a little about things too, even though I've never been to college.

But I do plan to take some classes next year. I'll let you know if they demand I fill out a FAFSA. Because I won't do it. They have no business knowing my income.
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Re: Wealth vs. Income

Post by Glennfs »

gounion wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 6:03 pm I was heavily involved in a free college benefit the labor movement is offering to their membership, so I may know a little about things too, even though I've never been to college.

But I do plan to take some classes next year. I'll let you know if they demand I fill out a FAFSA. Because I won't do it. They have no business knowing my income.
Because of your age you aren't paying very much.
If you wanted to attend as a full time student you would have to be admitted the same as any other student. You would also have to take the sat test.
What you are doing is completely different. As for your union's scholarship that is for community college. If it were for say The College of Charleston I guarentee every family would be required by your union to fill out a FAFSA. To see how much the scholarship fund would have to pay.
If fact they probably make sure people getting the scholarship now aren't eligible for a Pell Grant as they generally more than pay for community college
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Re: Wealth vs. Income

Post by Bludogdem »

Number6 wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 5:24 pm A scholarship is financial aid which is why I said they'd have to fill out the FAFSA form. If the kid doesn't require financial aid then there's no reason for the college to have them fill it out. All the FAFSA does is ensure money comes into the college.
This was academic scholarship money from the college’s funds. Not the government financial aid programs. A couple of schools required CSS Forms as well. The schools required these forms
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Re: Wealth vs. Income

Post by Number6 »

Glennfs wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 6:01 pm Yes she earned them as part of her pay package. Just like you earned your HC benefits. To compare that to a government subsidy is splitting hairs.
It's not splitting hairs. Upon retirement from the military you're entitled (I know you hate that word) to military provided healthcare, which is Tricare, and you pay a yearly premium which is only a couple of hundred bucks a year. That is a subsidy because the government is paying the most of the costs. The government also provides subsidized commissaries and exchanges to those who have retired as well. Just about everything you get or use on-base is subsidized from healthcare to commissaries/exchanges to movie theaters (no admission charge) to bowling to golf to free gyms and more. All subsidized.
Any person who went into the military and received a honorable discharge earned and deserves everything that get.
All they earned and deserves is subsidized by the government.
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Re: Wealth vs. Income

Post by gounion »

Glennfs wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 6:10 pm Because of your age you aren't paying very much.
If you wanted to attend as a full time student you would have to be admitted the same as any other student. You would also have to take the sat test.
What you are doing is completely different. As for your union's scholarship that is for community college. If it were for say The College of Charleston I guarentee every family would be required by your union to fill out a FAFSA. To see how much the scholarship fund would have to pay.
If fact they probably make sure people getting the scholarship now aren't eligible for a Pell Grant as they generally more than pay for community college
Here's where YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.

The college I'll be going to is a four-year state university. And I've already talked to them. No, I can go full time. I can take as many classes as I want. It's a done deal. And I won't be filling out any damned FAFSA.

And yes, everyone who takes our benefit has to fill out a FAFSA.

But here's what I had an argument with: Your buddy GreenGrass stated the college wanted and absolutely had the RIGHT to know the history of every student's family. I said that was bullshit. I proved it with links, and I was right.

Yet you want to keep arguing it.
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Re: Wealth vs. Income

Post by Motor City »

Number6 wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 5:48 pm What you're proposing would encourage fraud, waste, and abuse. It would be simpler to avoid having more money going from the government to a company and then back to the government. The government would incur more costs keeping track of that money than it would in the first place.

As for having the military making their own supplies, that's a laugh. How would they have the capabilities to manufacture an engine for an F-35 Raptor, a propulsion system for an aircraft carrier, or make toilet paper for their tushes? The number of people the military is around 1.3 million with another 2.2 in the reserves for a total force of 3.5 million people. For the military make their own supplies would require the military and it's civilian force to grow, IMO, around five times it's present force. The military has to rely on the manufacturing capacities and services industries of this country to operate. The problem is much of the manufacturing capacity of the U.S. has been relocated to China.
Whats wrong with that if it would protect our democracy, would be a better more realistic use of energy and resources and give way better results. Also give pause to using military and war to lightly and growing to large. If they can occupy a country for 20 years they can do factory work and that type thing.
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