Splitting up Biden's Build Back Better package

[Bludogdem]

Splitting up Biden's Build Back Better package could save Dems' climate agenda

https://www.axios.com/biden-build-back- ... 5ce62.html

I’m not a fan of Omnibus Bills. Prefer to see keep things simple. Bring Universal Pre-K to the floor. A Child Care Bill. Much better chance for action.

[ZoWie]

Agreed that the big packages are a good first attempt, but they usually fail. Bring up the parts.

There's still a problem with the Senate. It might or might not have actually been the "World's Greatest Deliberative Body," as it says on the menus at the Senate dining room, but it's certainly broken at present.

The filibuster is no honorable institution. It's largely a manifestation of Jim Crow. I support, as a compromise, a return to talking filibusters. However, I still think this would be a better country if its upper house wasn't by design supposed to be the learned seniors who kill anything too radical coming from the People's House.

[Bludogdem]

Agreed that the big packages are a good first attempt, but they usually fail. Bring up the parts.

There's still a problem with the Senate. It might or might not have actually been the "World's Greatest Deliberative Body," as it says on the menus at the Senate dining room, but it's certainly broken at present.

The filibuster is no honorable institution. It's largely a manifestation of Jim Crow. I support, as a compromise, a return to talking filibusters. However, I still think this would be a better country if its upper house wasn't by design supposed to be the learned seniors who kill anything too radical coming from the People's House.

I doubt the members from both parties are interested in midnight quorum calls. They abandoned the talking filibuster because it stopped everything and they didn’t care much for the midnight quorum calls. The current filibuster somewhat meets the founders intent for the Senate to cool the heat of the House

[gounion]

I doubt the members from both parties are interested in midnight quorum calls. They abandoned the talking filibuster because it stopped everything and they didn’t care much for the midnight quorum calls. The current filibuster somewhat meets the founders intent for the Senate to cool the heat of the House

Sorry Mr. history. The filibuster was not part of the founding documents or rules. It came later. The founders had nothing to do with it.

[marindem01]

I doubt the members from both parties are interested in midnight quorum calls. They abandoned the talking filibuster because it stopped everything and they didn’t care much for the midnight quorum calls. The current filibuster somewhat meets the founders intent for the Senate to cool the heat of the House

OH Green, your know it all fails you again.

No where in the Constitution of the United States of America is "Filibuster" Mentioned.

Before posting, use facts. Yours are in very short supply.

[carmenjonze]

Splitting up Biden's Build Back Better package could save Dems' climate agenda

https://www.axios.com/biden-build-back- ... 5ce62.html

I’m not a fan of Omnibus Bills. Prefer to see keep things simple. Bring Universal Pre-K to the floor. A Child Care Bill. Much better chance for action.

Shut up, sock.

[ZoWie]

The filibuster is an obstructionist tactic, historically used mostly against civil rights legislation. The original draft of the Constitution made obstructionism inevitable in the Senate, which was envisioned as the sober old gentlemen keeping the silly House in line. Senators weren't even directly elected until a later amendment. Even so, in a legislative body conceived to be a check on the vagaries of democracy rather than democracy itself, there was never anything about a filibuster, or how to override same.

With only a few exceptions, the Senate is free to make up any damn procedures and rules that it wants to. I guess it wasn't killing enough bills passed by the silly House, so they made it so any member could force a 2/3 vote on anything just by threatening to filibuster. They could require that a strip tease dancer go all the way to the disco version of America the Beautiful before every vote, and within 10 years that would be considered the hallowed tradition of The World's Greatest Deliberative Body (not).

For my entire adult life, it's been the place where all progressive ideas go to die.

[Glennfs]

Agreed that the big packages are a good first attempt, but they usually fail. Bring up the parts.

There's still a problem with the Senate. It might or might not have actually been the "World's Greatest Deliberative Body," as it says on the menus at the Senate dining room, but it's certainly broken at present.

The filibuster is no honorable institution. It's largely a manifestation of Jim Crow. I support, as a compromise, a return to talking filibusters. However, I still think this would be a better country if its upper house wasn't by design supposed to be the learned seniors who kill anything too radical coming from the People's House.

A return to talking filibusters is not fooling anyone. It is an end to the filibuster period.
Let them demagogue for a few hours then have the vote.
The last thing we need is to take away the voice of the minority party, regardless of which party it happens to be.
Without a filibuster the minority party has no reason to show up, especially in this era of no compromise.
Now there is no doubt or debate that the filibuster is being abused by whichever party is in the minority and needs reformed.
The only question remaining is how do we reform it in a manner how do we accomplish it in a manner where the minority has a voice and the filibuster can't be abused

[gounion]

A return to talking filibusters is not fooling anyone. It is an end to the filibuster period.
Let them demagogue for a few hours then have the vote.
The last thing we need is to take away the voice of the minority party, regardless of which party it happens to be.
Without a filibuster the minority party has no reason to show up, especially in this era of no compromise.
Now there is no doubt or debate that the filibuster is being abused by whichever party is in the minority and needs reformed.
The only question remaining is how do we reform it in a manner how do we accomplish it in a manner where the minority has a voice and the filibuster can't be abused

It doesn't matter, as soon as they get full power back and McConnell retires, the GOP will end the filibuster, and you'll applaud that and blame the Dems for causing it.

[Glennfs]

It doesn't matter, as soon as they get full power back and McConnell retires, the GOP will end the filibuster, and you'll applaud that and blame the Dems for causing it.

Well if it happens I expect you to support it. But in reality all you are doing is making another foolish presumption about what the gop will do.
In fact it is progressives who are in favor of making ours a defacto one party country.
Eliminate the filibuster
Eliminate the electoral college
Change the make up of the Senate so large states get more senators than small states
Add to scotus so liberals have the majority

Then we can have total power and all live on the peace and harmony of democratic socialism

[Bludogdem]

The current filibuster somewhat meets the founders intent for the Senate to cool the heat of the House

That in no way says that the filibuster was part of founding documents. Those who know the history understand what “to cool the heat of the House” means.

In 1805 the Senate adopted a new set of rules. In the change the “Previous Question “ rule disappeared. So from 1805 to 1917 unlimited debate was a feature of the Senate.

[carmenjonze]

Well if it happens I expect you to support it. But in reality all you are doing is making another foolish presumption about what the gop will do.
In fact it is progressives who are in favor of making ours a defacto one party country.
Eliminate the filibuster
Eliminate the electoral college
Change the make up of the Senate so large states get more senators than small states
Add to scotus so liberals have the majority

Then we can have total power and all live on the peace and harmony of democratic socialism

^Commiebaiting fever dream from circa 1952.

Earth to Glennfs, it's 2022.

[gounion]

Well if it happens I expect you to support it. But in reality all you are doing is making another foolish presumption about what the gop will do.
In fact it is progressives who are in favor of making ours a defacto one party country.
Eliminate the filibuster
Eliminate the electoral college
Change the make up of the Senate so large states get more senators than small states
Add to scotus so liberals have the majority

Then we can have total power and all live on the peace and harmony of democratic socialism

You won't worry about the minority when you're in the majority. And when McConnell goes, the GOP will kill the filibuster, and you will just blame the Dems for them doing it.

[carmenjonze]

You won't worry about the minority when you're in the majority. And when McConnell goes, the GOP will kill the filibuster, and you will just blame the Dems for them doing it.

He forgot the part where we want to open up all the borders so we can put victory mosks filled with MS-13 and chicago babymama welfare queens everywhere.

[Glennfs]

You won't worry about the minority when you're in the majority. And when McConnell goes, the GOP will kill the filibuster, and you will just blame the Dems for them doing it.

Simply projecting your opinion with zero facts involved

[ProfX]

Eliminate the filibuster

Nah. I just want to bring it back to the way it was used from, say, the 1830s, to 1970, or so, i.e. over a century; bringing back the "talking filibuster" is in a way a "conservative" position as it was how the filibuster was for over a century.

Eliminate the electoral college

It's gonna require a Constitutional amendment. Don't see it happening. In the meantime, in this real world, bipartisan EC reform is on the table, and should be advanced.

Change the make up of the Senate so large states get more senators than small states

Uh, I don't know anybody who's saying we should do this.

Add to scotus so liberals have the majority

I wouldn't favor this, if conservatives hadn't already packed the court, by blocking liberal appointees, and rapid-slamming conservative ones, on the court...

[Glennfs]

Nah. I just want to bring it back to the way it was used from, say, the 1830s, to 1970, or so, i.e. over a century; bringing back the "talking filibuster" is in a way a "conservative" position as it was how the filibuster was for over a century.



It's gonna require a Constitutional amendment. Don't see it happening. In the meantime, in this real world, bipartisan EC reform is on the table, and should be advanced.



Uh, I don't know anybody who's saying we should do this.



I wouldn't favor this, if conservatives hadn't already packed the court, by blocking liberal appointees, and rapid-slamming conservative ones, on the court...

Everything I mentioned has been frequently mentioned on Thom Hartmann and Dean Obeidallah and some even discussed hear.
Again while I agree the filibuster rules need somehow changed. To eliminate the filibuster or make it a talking filibuster would be tantamount to telling the minority to stay home.
Because at the end of the day their voices and votes wouldn't matter

[ProfX]

Everything I mentioned has been frequently mentioned on Thom Hartmann and Dean Obeidallah and some even discussed hear.

I don't listen to either, and liberals are not a hive mind who agree with everything said on the radio.

I like Randi Rhodes, but I have never agreed with everything she says on the radio, either.

[Glennfs]

I don't listen to either, and liberals are not a hive mind who agree with everything said on the radio.

I like Randi Rhodes, but I have never agreed with everything she says on the radio, either.

I used to listen to Rhodes once a week when she was on some week signal station in south Florida. Hers was a very entertaining show.
Which is the true reason I listen to left wing radio. The showcase better produced and way more entertaining

[carmenjonze]

Everything I mentioned has been frequently mentioned on Thom Hartmann and Dean Obeidallah and some even discussed hear.
Again while I agree the filibuster rules need somehow changed. To eliminate the filibuster or make it a talking filibuster would be tantamount to telling the minority to stay home.
Because at the end of the day their voices and votes wouldn't matter

Eliminating the filibuster and eliminating the electoral college are canards that are not a part of filibuster reform.

I think you should be more honest about why a talking filibuster is so deeply threatening to conservatives at this moment.

[gounion]

Everything I mentioned has been frequently mentioned on Thom Hartmann and Dean Obeidallah and some even discussed hear.
Again while I agree the filibuster rules need somehow changed. To eliminate the filibuster or make it a talking filibuster would be tantamount to telling the minority to stay home.
Because at the end of the day their voices and votes wouldn't matter

You say you don't want to be talked down to, then you say this shit.

Glenn, just because you're in the minority, doesn't mean you stay home. Even in the Congress.

Used to be, before Rush and Newt turned politics into war, the Congress and Senate passed legislation. They horse traded votes. They changed the bills to make them palatable for everyone. Almost all bills were bi-partisan. Something for everyone. The minority always had a say. Reagan and Tip O'Neal could have a beer together. They would work on legislation together.

And that ended by the far-right taking over the GOP. They ran off any Republican that would even talk to Dems.

That's the real history.

[gounion]

Simply projecting your opinion with zero facts involved

Which is exactly what you ALWAYS do.

[ProfX]

"A talking filibuster will destroy democracy" ... yet that is what the Senate used from 1837 to 1970 or so ... so ... ?

Also, it's used by many state legislatures, such as TX's ... see: Wendy Davis.

I don't get what's so "dangerous" to democracy to go back to doing it the way the Senate did it for more than a century.