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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:29 am 
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It has always been that way in retail sales. There just isn't enough revinue created to be able to afford stock boys and other help. The problem is when it gets so out of balance the salespeople have no time to sell because all their other duties are to time consuming. Then of course we have retail companies like JC Penney and Sears that have done completely away with having any sales force costing them millions in sales.
If management allows for enough hours and the salespeople use their time wisely there is plenty of time to stock clean and sell between ups.

It's easy to pay a living wage and make money in retail. Ask Costco. Ask WinCo.

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glenfs, July 4, 2018:

"You would think that after 8 years of hearing allegations against Bill C and another 8 against President Obama you people would have learned that 90% of those types of allegations just aren't true."


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:36 am 
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Winco is not unionized and actively discourages its workers from joining unions.

A case might be made that they have ownership benefits that make unions unneccesary, but the fact remains that their workers are not organized outside of the company.

http://www.ibtimes.com/winco-foods-anti-union-afl-cio-praises-wal-mart-competitor-then-deletes-blog-post-1388761

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:38 am 
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Winco is not unionized and actively discourages its workers from joining unions.

A case might be made that they have ownership benefits that make unions unneccesary, but the fact remains that their workers are not organized outside of the company.

http://www.ibtimes.com/winco-foods-anti-union-afl-cio-praises-wal-mart-competitor-then-deletes-blog-post-1388761


Only 14,000 of Costco's 100,000+ employees are represented by the Union. However they do have a very good business plan and a very good CEO. Here is a great article about Costco, their CEO and business plan.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/17/busin ... d=all&_r=0

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:50 am 
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Winco is not unionized and actively discourages its workers from joining unions.

A case might be made that they have ownership benefits that make unions unneccesary, but the fact remains that their workers are not organized outside of the company.

http://www.ibtimes.com/winco-foods-anti-union-afl-cio-praises-wal-mart-competitor-then-deletes-blog-post-1388761

glen's point was that you can't afford to pay decent wages in retail. I was just showing that point was false.

And I believe that unions are beneficial even in well-paying jobs. A union contract protects workers from being fired for anything other than just cause, for instance.

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glenfs, July 4, 2018:

"You would think that after 8 years of hearing allegations against Bill C and another 8 against President Obama you people would have learned that 90% of those types of allegations just aren't true."


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:51 am 
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Only 14,000 of Costco's 100,000+ employees are represented by the Union. However they do have a very good business plan and a very good CEO. Here is a great article about Costco, their CEO and business plan.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/17/busin ... d=all&_r=0

So, it's obvious that low wages aren't necessary in retail.

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glenfs, July 4, 2018:

"You would think that after 8 years of hearing allegations against Bill C and another 8 against President Obama you people would have learned that 90% of those types of allegations just aren't true."


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:10 am 
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So, it's obvious that low wages aren't necessary in retail.


It depends on how you define low wages. WalMart and Costco cater to different clients just as Costco's CEO said in the NYT article you can't compare Hunt's and Heintz just because both are ketchup. Costco's business plan is for long term employees who work full time for Costco. Walmart's plan is to employ part time people looking to supplement their families income.
A little known fact is that Walmart pays it's stores management staff very high wages. Also, their truck drivers are paid more than even union drivers. In a nutshell walmart pays it's key employees very well. While those who work at jobs that are replaceable not so much. In other words Walmart lets the market place dictate their wage structure.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:21 am 
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It depends on how you define low wages. WalMart and Costco cater to different clients just as Costco's CEO said in the NYT article you can't compare Hunt's and Heintz just because both are ketchup. Costco's business plan is for long term employees who work full time for Costco. Walmart's plan is to employ part time people looking to supplement their families income.
A little known fact is that Walmart pays it's stores management staff very high wages. Also, their truck drivers are paid more than even union drivers. In a nutshell walmart pays it's key employees very well. While those who work at jobs that are replaceable not so much. In other words Walmart lets the market place dictate their wage structure.

You obviously don't know how much training new employees cost the company. An average Walmart turns over their entire store three times a year. Lots of lost money there.

And Costco is a direct competitor to Sam's Club, a Walmart company. Costco is more profitable per square foot than Sam's, and more profitable per store.

Plus the fact that Walmart workers are subsidized by the taxpayer, since the taxpayer pays the health care for their employees, instead of Walmart.

It's obvious retail CAN pay living wages, and it's best for everyone. Isn't it better to have a Costco employee paying taxes, than it is to have a Sam's Club employee that not doesn't make enough to pay taxes, but they also have to rely on taxpayer money to make ends meet?

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glenfs, July 4, 2018:

"You would think that after 8 years of hearing allegations against Bill C and another 8 against President Obama you people would have learned that 90% of those types of allegations just aren't true."


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 7:43 pm 
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We had our all store sales meeting on Saturday. The subject of a union never came up. I guess they are not worried about it.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 8:35 pm 
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We had our all store sales meeting on Saturday. The subject of a union never came up. I guess they are not worried about it.

Two votes. Two huge losses. Don't think for a moment they aren't scared shitless.

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glenfs, July 4, 2018:

"You would think that after 8 years of hearing allegations against Bill C and another 8 against President Obama you people would have learned that 90% of those types of allegations just aren't true."


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 2:53 am 
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Two votes. Two huge losses. Don't think for a moment they aren't scared shitless.

I guess they are keeping their fear hidden.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 3:58 pm 
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I guess they are keeping their fear hidden.

Do you think you are so important they'll show it in front of you? :rw)

The big shots are scared. And your boss is likely afraid - if there's any hint of union talk at your location, his life becomes a living hell. They will helicopter anti-union lawyers in there, and try to suppress union talk, likely by firing people and a LOT of pressure will be on the local bosses. Their jobs will be on the line. It gets really ugly.

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glenfs, July 4, 2018:

"You would think that after 8 years of hearing allegations against Bill C and another 8 against President Obama you people would have learned that 90% of those types of allegations just aren't true."


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 8:13 pm 
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Do you think you are so important they'll show it in front of you? :rw)

The big shots are scared. And your boss is likely afraid - if there's any hint of union talk at your location, his life becomes a living hell. They will helicopter anti-union lawyers in there, and try to suppress union talk, likely by firing people and a LOT of pressure will be on the local bosses. Their jobs will be on the line. It gets really ugly.

IF the big shots are scared, it is only the big cities. Stores like mine have no desire or need for a union.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 8:19 pm 
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IF the big shots are scared, it is only the big cities. Stores like mine have no desire or need for a union.

I'm sure they love you. If they cut your pay in half, you'd say thank you.

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glenfs, July 4, 2018:

"You would think that after 8 years of hearing allegations against Bill C and another 8 against President Obama you people would have learned that 90% of those types of allegations just aren't true."


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 8:21 pm 
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I'm sure they love you. If they cut your pay in half, you'd say thank you.

They do love me. They won't cut my pay in half. If they did I would quit. They don't want me to quit so they won't cut my pay.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 8:31 pm 
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They do love me. They won't cut my pay in half. If they did I would quit. They don't want me to quit so they won't cut my pay.

You wouldn't quit. You are so loyal to them. You are happy with what you make, and you'd be happy with half that. They may have to cut your pay so they can pay the unionized stores more. You'll be happy if they tell you that's all you're worth. You obviously don't think you're worth MORE.

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glenfs, July 4, 2018:

"You would think that after 8 years of hearing allegations against Bill C and another 8 against President Obama you people would have learned that 90% of those types of allegations just aren't true."


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 8:37 pm 
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You wouldn't quit. You are so loyal to them. You are happy with what you make, and you'd be happy with half that.

Thats where you're wrong. I would quit in a heartbeat. Guitar Center is not the only music store in the area. I would work elsewhere. You have no clue how I feel about Guitar Center. You're guessing as usual.
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They may have to cut your pay so they can pay the unionized stores more. You'll be happy if they tell you that's all you're worth. You obviously don't think you're worth MORE.

When I was hired, they told me about the pay scale. I'm sure you don't have a clue how the pay works in my store. I agreed to that pay scale. Commission does play a part in what we make so if we want to make more money we sell more gear. Simple as that.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 8:40 pm 
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Thats where you're wrong. I would quit in a heartbeat. Guitar Center is not the only music store in the area. I would work elsewhere. You have no clue how I feel about Guitar Center. You're guessing as usual.

When I was hired, they told me about the pay scale. I'm sure you don't have a clue how the pay works in my store. I agreed to that pay scale. Commission does play a part in what we make so if we want to make more money we sell more gear. Simple as that.

And they can change that pay scale any time they want to. Plus, they can have you do non-sales work that keeps you off the floor. That was a large part of the issues the workers had at the stores that unionize. Favoritism was a big problem, too, but probably not much for you. You are probably good at brown-nosing the boss. :lol:

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glenfs, July 4, 2018:

"You would think that after 8 years of hearing allegations against Bill C and another 8 against President Obama you people would have learned that 90% of those types of allegations just aren't true."


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 8:46 pm 
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And they can change that pay scale any time they want to. Plus, they can have you do non-sales work that keeps you off the floor. That was a large part of the issues the workers had at the stores that unionize. Favoritism was a big problem, too, but probably not much for you. You are probably good at brown-nosing the boss. :lol:

The problem with the stores that want to unionize is the employees sense of entitlement. They want more money but they don't want to work for it.

We don't do "non-sales work that keeps you off the floor." We have an operations department that does inventory, cycle counts, all that non-sales stuff. All we do is merch and sell.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:07 pm 
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The problem with the stores that want to unionize is the employees sense of entitlement. They want more money but they don't want to work for it.

No, it's that they have families to feed and keep a roof over their head. I was a union worker, and I worked damned hard at a highly-skilled job. I was one of the best we had. I trained many people. You don't have a clue, and you couldn't do what I did.
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We don't do "non-sales work that keeps you off the floor." We have an operations department that does inventory, cycle counts, all that non-sales stuff. All we do is merch and sell.

Well, that's not how all the stores work. The people said they had to spend lots of time off the floor in non-sales work, so they couldn't make any money.

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glenfs, July 4, 2018:

"You would think that after 8 years of hearing allegations against Bill C and another 8 against President Obama you people would have learned that 90% of those types of allegations just aren't true."


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 8:51 am 
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No, it's that they have families to feed and keep a roof over their head. I was a union worker, and I worked damned hard at a highly-skilled job. I was one of the best we had. I trained many people. You don't have a clue, and you couldn't do what I did.

Really? What was it you did that I couldn't do?
I'm pretty sure I do what I do as good as you did what you did. The difference is, I'm still doing it and will until the day I die.

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Well, that's not how all the stores work. The people said they had to spend lots of time off the floor in non-sales work, so they couldn't make any money.

That IS how all the stores work. Every Guitar Center has an operations department. All 252 of them.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:17 pm 
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Really? What was it you did that I couldn't do?
I'm pretty sure I do what I do as good as you did what you did. The difference is, I'm still doing it and will until the day I die.


That IS how all the stores work. Every Guitar Center has an operations department. All 252 of them.

From the Rolling Stone story:

A primary hope of pro-union Guitar Center employees in Chicago is to change the company's commission structure, generally referred to as "fading." The system requires employees to equal their hourly earnings in unpaid sales commissions before actually earning any money on top of base hourly wages. Workers say that this system does not properly tie pay to merit, as employees who perform well on the sales floor yet must also clock hours on non-sales duties can find themselves at a disadvantage. A large proportion of hours devoted to non-sales duties can leave highly skilled sales associates at or near minimum wage, according to pro-union employees. "The 'fade' has to go," says Webb. "It's basically a method they've devised to effectively dock our pay without actually docking it."

Guitar Center says it is examining the "fade" system in its in-depth analysis of employee compensation. "Our intentions," Haffeman says, "have always been clear to demonstrate to every GC associate in the country that we're listening to their concerns and their ideas, and we're not afraid to take bold action on it as well. "


The Rolling Stone story says different, and note that the company commented. They did NOT deny the accuracy of the employee's statement.

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glenfs, July 4, 2018:

"You would think that after 8 years of hearing allegations against Bill C and another 8 against President Obama you people would have learned that 90% of those types of allegations just aren't true."


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:23 pm 
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From the Rolling Stone story:

A primary hope of pro-union Guitar Center employees in Chicago is to change the company's commission structure, generally referred to as "fading." The system requires employees to equal their hourly earnings in unpaid sales commissions before actually earning any money on top of base hourly wages. Workers say that this system does not properly tie pay to merit, as employees who perform well on the sales floor yet must also clock hours on non-sales duties can find themselves at a disadvantage. A large proportion of hours devoted to non-sales duties can leave highly skilled sales associates at or near minimum wage, according to pro-union employees. "The 'fade' has to go," says Webb. "It's basically a method they've devised to effectively dock our pay without actually docking it."

Guitar Center says it is examining the "fade" system in its in-depth analysis of employee compensation. "Our intentions," Haffeman says, "have always been clear to demonstrate to every GC associate in the country that we're listening to their concerns and their ideas, and we're not afraid to take bold action on it as well. "


The Rolling Stone story says different, and note that the company commented. They did NOT deny the accuracy of the employee's statement.

It doesn't work like that in every Guitar Center. The one that I work at is different than in Chicago. Every Guitar Center does have an ops department, however.

You never answered my question. What work did you do that I couldn't possibly do?

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:27 pm 
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It doesn't work like that in every Guitar Center. The one that I work at is different than in Chicago. Every Guitar Center does have an ops department, however.

You never answered my question. What work did you do that I couldn't possibly do?

I was a highly-trained master machinist and tool-and-die maker.

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glenfs, July 4, 2018:

"You would think that after 8 years of hearing allegations against Bill C and another 8 against President Obama you people would have learned that 90% of those types of allegations just aren't true."


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:30 pm 
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And thanks for admitting you weren't telling the truth. You said ALL the stores operated the same. People are forced to do non-sales jobs, at least in some stores. That flatly contradicts your earlier statements.

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glenfs, July 4, 2018:

"You would think that after 8 years of hearing allegations against Bill C and another 8 against President Obama you people would have learned that 90% of those types of allegations just aren't true."


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:36 pm 
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And thanks for admitting you weren't telling the truth. You said ALL the stores operated the same. People are forced to do non-sales jobs, at least in some stores. That flatly contradicts your earlier statements.

I NEVER said that. What I said was all stores had operations departments that handled non-sales work. That is a fact. Sales people do merching which is on the floor work.

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