Texas Abortion Law Case

News and events of the day
User avatar
Drak
Posts: 4493
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 3:02 pm

Re: Texas Abortion Law Case

Post by Drak »

You have to have health mandates in place when a significant portion of the population is fed lies about a deadly virus and told their personal freedom is more important than spreading deadly diseases. Businesses, including government employers, have the right to put mandates in place because of that. Arguing against it is not founded in any sort of logic or patriotism, it's just political bullshit. The Supreme Court already ruled that mandates are constitutional.
"Some of those that work forces,
Are the same that burn crosses"

- Rage Against the Machine
JoeMemphis

Re: Texas Abortion Law Case

Post by JoeMemphis »

gounion wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 10:14 am Yeah, as always, you refuse to answer my questions, because you don't want to make my point.

The point is, we are told what to do all the fucking time. As an accountant, you've had to dress like all the other lemmings your whole life. I had to wear safety equipment all the time. You're stupid whining about masks makes you sound like a whiney wuss. Try wearing a full respirator for a whole day. Plus, you've spent most of your time in an air-conditioned office. I spent 25 years in an un-airconditioned shop.

We no longer have to worry about Polio and smallpox and many other diseases because of vaccine mandates.

You don't like these discussions because you always lose on the facts.
Is there anything new in what you posted that I haven’t heard dozens of times from you? I have already responded numerous times on numerous occasions in numerous threads. I don’t like these discussions because they are a repeat of the same discussion we have had over and over.

We simply don’t agree on this point. We probably will never agree on this point.
gounion
Posts: 17250
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:59 pm

Re: Texas Abortion Law Case

Post by gounion »

JoeMemphis wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 10:34 am Is there anything new in what you posted that I haven’t heard dozens of times from you? I have already responded numerous times on numerous occasions in numerous threads. I don’t like these discussions because they are a repeat of the same discussion we have had over and over.

We simply don’t agree on this point. We probably will never agree on this point.
That's because you're all about ideology instead of reality and facts. And the last thing you'd ever do is admit I had a point, because it's all about your ego.

But hey it HAS been a while since you've whined about how hot and uncomfortable masks are, and how you're such a wuss that you don't care if they make people safer or not.

Or how there is no reason to be safe when it's a low-population area. You know, like your lake house and the county where there were ZERO cases and ZERO deaths, and the hospital sat empty. Want to tell us that one again? Why don't you explain how the hotspots now are states like Alaska and North Dakota.

Go ahead, explain that to us again. Or, you might just admit you were wrong, and like Ron Zeigler said, that argument is no longer operative?

Nope, that'll never happen. You're like Trump in that you never admit an error.
User avatar
Number6
Posts: 3476
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 7:18 pm

Re: Texas Abortion Law Case

Post by Number6 »

JoeMemphis wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 9:06 am I see your point. I don’t agree with the vigilante provision in either law. It turns neighbor against neighbor for money.
The point is is if the SC allows the law to stand then similar laws covering other issues will be passed leading to neighbor suing neighbor simply because it's profitable for them to enforce a law the politicians passed but refused to allow law enforcement to enforce the law. It will destroy communities, counties, states, and eventually the country.
When you vote left, you vote right.
JoeMemphis

Re: Texas Abortion Law Case

Post by JoeMemphis »

Number6 wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 12:59 pm The point is is if the SC allows the law to stand then similar laws covering other issues will be passed leading to neighbor suing neighbor simply because it's profitable for them to enforce a law the politicians passed but refused to allow law enforcement to enforce the law. It will destroy communities, counties, states, and eventually the country.
I have no idea as to how the court will rule on this. The enforcement mechanism on the Texas law seems to me to be problematic. Is it damages from a lawsuit or reward for reporting a violation. I can’t see it as damages in a suit.
gounion
Posts: 17250
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:59 pm

Re: Texas Abortion Law Case

Post by gounion »

JoeMemphis wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 1:51 pm I have no idea as to how the court will rule on this. The enforcement mechanism on the Texas law seems to me to be problematic. Is it damages from a lawsuit or reward for reporting a violation. I can’t see it as damages in a suit.
The Court can do whatever it wants. It can deny standing. It can allow standing, under which the suits move forward. It can allow the law to stand for now, or it can put a stay upon the law.

Or, it can just declare the law unconstitutional because of the enforcement mechanism, and throw it out.
Glennfs
Posts: 10306
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:54 pm

Re: Texas Abortion Law Case

Post by Glennfs »

gounion wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 1:54 pm The Court can do whatever it wants. It can deny standing. It can allow standing, under which the suits move forward. It can allow the law to stand for now, or it can put a stay upon the law.

Or, it can just declare the law unconstitutional because of the enforcement mechanism, and throw it out.
One thing for sure because we have a centrist court they will base their decision on the constitutionality of the law.

Not personal political beliefs or religion.
" I am a socialist " Bernie Sanders
gounion
Posts: 17250
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:59 pm

Re: Texas Abortion Law Case

Post by gounion »

Glennfs wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 2:02 pm One thing for sure because we have a centrist court they will base their decision on the constitutionality of the law.

Not personal political beliefs or religion.
This isn’t a centrist court.

Trump promised America they would overturn Roe. If that’s what they promised Trump to get the nominations, it’s a corrupt Court.
Bludogdem
Posts: 2054
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 5:16 pm

Re: Texas Abortion Law Case

Post by Bludogdem »

Number6 wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 12:59 pm The point is is if the SC allows the law to stand then similar laws covering other issues will be passed leading to neighbor suing neighbor simply because it's profitable for them to enforce a law the politicians passed but refused to allow law enforcement to enforce the law. It will destroy communities, counties, states, and eventually the country.
Which makes a strong case for the Court to simply toss SB8 on the enforcement mechanism being unconstitutional.
gounion
Posts: 17250
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:59 pm

Re: Texas Abortion Law Case

Post by gounion »

Bludogdem wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 2:12 pm Which makes a strong case for the Court to simply toss SB8 on the enforcement mechanism being unconstitutional.
After all, they have a case in the pipeline to kill Roe all lined up. They don’t need the Texas law. What’s something is that a majority were too damned stupid to realize the Texas law would have repercussions. Hell, we all knew it. Why are they just now realizing it?
User avatar
Number6
Posts: 3476
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 7:18 pm

Re: Texas Abortion Law Case

Post by Number6 »

JoeMemphis wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 1:51 pm I have no idea as to how the court will rule on this. The enforcement mechanism on the Texas law seems to me to be problematic. Is it damages from a lawsuit or reward for reporting a violation. I can’t see it as damages in a suit.
The main problem I have with someone suing for damages is what damage or harm was caused to the person bringing the suit?
When you vote left, you vote right.
JoeMemphis

Re: Texas Abortion Law Case

Post by JoeMemphis »

Number6 wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 5:49 pm The main problem I have with someone suing for damages is what damage or harm was caused to the person bringing the suit?
I agree. Doesn’t make any sense to me. This sounds more like a reward. It isn’t damages.
gounion
Posts: 17250
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:59 pm

Re: Texas Abortion Law Case

Post by gounion »

JoeMemphis wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 6:15 pm I agree. Doesn’t make any sense to me. This sounds more like a reward. It isn’t damages.
Most of the laws the GOP comes up with don’t make sense.
User avatar
Drak
Posts: 4493
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 3:02 pm

Re: Texas Abortion Law Case

Post by Drak »

Image
"Some of those that work forces,
Are the same that burn crosses"

- Rage Against the Machine
gounion
Posts: 17250
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:59 pm

Re: Texas Abortion Law Case

Post by gounion »

JoeMemphis wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 6:15 pm I agree. Doesn’t make any sense to me. This sounds more like a reward. It isn’t damages.
Nothing the GOP does these days makes sense. Yet you keep voting for them.
User avatar
ProfX
Posts: 4087
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2021 3:15 pm
Location: Earth

Re: Texas Abortion Law Case

Post by ProfX »

SCOTUS upholds Texas Abortion Law

Court won’t stop Texas abortion ban, but lets clinics sue
https://apnews.com/article/us-supreme-c ... cb30db66e0

BTW, somehow the law can be upheld, but no (at least in this case) it doesn't cause Roe to be challenged. Somehow they split that baby. They also ruled it is possible for clinics to sue the state over the law.

I guess they somehow think it doesn't challenge Roe because of its weird bounty-hunter system (instead of a direct ban).

Separately from SCOTUS, a Texas state court judge said the law is unconstitutional.
"Don't believe every quote attributed to people on the Internet" -- Abraham Lincoln :D
Bludogdem
Posts: 2054
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 5:16 pm

Re: Texas Abortion Law Case

Post by Bludogdem »

I don’t think it was upheld.

From Justice Roberts:

“ Given the ongoing chilling effect of the state law, the District Court should resolve this litigation and enter appropriate relief without delay.”

It appears they may want the case to travel from the lower courts first.
User avatar
sam lefthand
Posts: 678
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 1:58 pm

Re: Texas Abortion Law Case

Post by sam lefthand »

ProfX wrote: Fri Dec 10, 2021 12:39 pm SCOTUS upholds Texas Abortion Law

Court won’t stop Texas abortion ban, but lets clinics sue
https://apnews.com/article/us-supreme-c ... cb30db66e0

BTW, somehow the law can be upheld, but no (at least in this case) it doesn't cause Roe to be challenged. Somehow they split that baby. They also ruled it is possible for clinics to sue the state over the law.

I guess they somehow think it doesn't challenge Roe because of its weird bounty-hunter system (instead of a direct ban).

Separately from SCOTUS, a Texas state court judge said the law is unconstitutional.
That's piss poor news reporting. Their title is a clear misstatement of the facts.

:(

The court did not uphold the Texas abortion law, that was not what they were reviewing about that case at this time. What was before the court was the very limited question as to whether courts could issue a temporary injunction against state-court judges and clerks enjoining them from hearing cases brought by citizens.

On that question the Supreme court ruled 5 to 4 that a temporary injunction could not be imposed because of the weird structure of that law. In addition to that ruling the court ruled 8 to 1 to allow the ongoing law suits that brought forth that question to temporally enjoin the law to go forward.

That 8 to 1 ruing can be seen as a victory for abortion rights going forward.

:|

That will eventually bring up the Constitutionality of that law to be settled at a later date. I would think with that the law will then be struck down.

8 to 1 the court clearly does not like what Texas has done in creating that mess, but in the same vein they don't want an inappropriately structured injunction to be issued which also violates the Constitution.

The mill of the gods grinds slowly, however it grinds exceedingly fine.

This is better reporting about the case:

https://www.scotusblog.com/2021/12/cour ... challenge/
User avatar
ProfX
Posts: 4087
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2021 3:15 pm
Location: Earth

Re: Texas Abortion Law Case

Post by ProfX »

Maybe.

Headline at SCOTUSblog:
Court leaves Texas’ six-week abortion ban in effect and narrows abortion providers’ challenge

I think this is not entirely different from what APNews reported, though you may not have liked how the headline framed things.

I guess it's a semantic distinction between "left in effect" and "upheld". We all appear to agree it is still in effect.

Although, again, in theory, not, because the Texas STATE Justice ruled it unconstitutional to the STATE constitution. Except.

State judge declares Texas abortion law unconstitutional — but does not stop it from being enforced
The fate of the statute remains uncertain. An appeal to the ruling is already underway, and an opinion on the law from the U.S. Supreme Court is still pending.
https://www.texastribune.org/2021/12/09 ... rtion-law/

(BTW, the subhead of this story has been rendered inaccurate by simultaneous events.)

A Texas judge on Thursday ruled that the state’s controversial law restricting abortions after about six weeks of pregnancy violates the Texas Constitution, saying it should not be enforced in court.

Although Thursday’s ruling is a win for abortion rights advocates, the order only has direct consequences for the 14 lawsuits in the case that the judge oversaw. The judge did not issue an injunction to block cases from being filed, though experts say it would likely be used as precedent in those cases.

[snip][end]

My fierce Crackerjack legal training describes this situation as "clusterfuck".
"Don't believe every quote attributed to people on the Internet" -- Abraham Lincoln :D
User avatar
ProfX
Posts: 4087
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2021 3:15 pm
Location: Earth

Re: Texas Abortion Law Case

Post by ProfX »

Bludogdem wrote: Fri Dec 10, 2021 1:33 pm From Justice Roberts:
“ Given the ongoing chilling effect of the state law, the District Court should resolve this litigation and enter appropriate relief without delay.”
You quote the Chief. I'll quote one of my favorite Justices, Justice Sotomayor:

https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/p ... sotomayor/

The Court should have put an end to this madness months ago, before S. B. 8 first went into effect. It failed to do so then, and it fails again today. I concur in the Court’s judgment that the petitioners’ suit may proceed against certain executive licensing officials who retain enforcement authority under Texas law, and I trust the District Court will act expeditiously to enter much-needed relief. I dissent, however, from the Court’s dangerous departure from its precedents, which establish that federal courts can and should issue relief when a State enacts a law that chills the exercise of a constitutional right and aims to evade judicial review. By foreclosing suit against state-court officials and the state attorney general, the Court effectively invites other States to refine S. B. 8’s model for nullifying federal rights. The Court thus betrays not only the citizens of Texas, but also our constitutional system of government.

This is a brazen challenge to our federal structure. It echoes the philosophy of John C. Calhoun, a virulent defender of the slaveholding South who insisted that States had the right to “veto” or “nullif[y]” any federal law with which they disagreed. Lest the parallel be lost on the Court, analogous sentiments were expressed in this case’s companion: “The Supreme Court’s interpretations of the Constitution are not the Constitution itself—they are, after all, called opinions.”


[snip][end]

I'm with her.
"Don't believe every quote attributed to people on the Internet" -- Abraham Lincoln :D
User avatar
Libertas
Posts: 6468
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 5:16 pm

Re: Texas Abortion Law Case

Post by Libertas »

Madness, unless you are an arrogant pretend democrat, male, who will NEVER have to deal with being FORCED to bring to term a fetus.

This enrages me the way the Biden nominee had to give up her deal because she was called a commie. Personally, I get REALLY pissed!

You fucking cons make me sick, and you dont even know why you oppose what you oppose, all you know is we support it.
I sigh in your general direction.
Bludogdem
Posts: 2054
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 5:16 pm

Re: Texas Abortion Law Case

Post by Bludogdem »

ProfX wrote: Fri Dec 10, 2021 3:27 pm You quote the Chief. I'll quote one of my favorite Justices, Justice Sotomayor:

https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/p ... sotomayor/

The Court should have put an end to this madness months ago, before S. B. 8 first went into effect. It failed to do so then, and it fails again today. I concur in the Court’s judgment that the petitioners’ suit may proceed against certain executive licensing officials who retain enforcement authority under Texas law, and I trust the District Court will act expeditiously to enter much-needed relief. I dissent, however, from the Court’s dangerous departure from its precedents, which establish that federal courts can and should issue relief when a State enacts a law that chills the exercise of a constitutional right and aims to evade judicial review. By foreclosing suit against state-court officials and the state attorney general, the Court effectively invites other States to refine S. B. 8’s model for nullifying federal rights. The Court thus betrays not only the citizens of Texas, but also our constitutional system of government.

This is a brazen challenge to our federal structure. It echoes the philosophy of John C. Calhoun, a virulent defender of the slaveholding South who insisted that States had the right to “veto” or “nullif[y]” any federal law with which they disagreed. Lest the parallel be lost on the Court, analogous sentiments were expressed in this case’s companion: “The Supreme Court’s interpretations of the Constitution are not the Constitution itself—they are, after all, called opinions.”


[snip][end]

I'm with her.
I’m with whatever stops SB8.
User avatar
ProfX
Posts: 4087
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2021 3:15 pm
Location: Earth

Re: Texas Abortion Law Case

Post by ProfX »

Well, bravissimo, we agree on something else.
"Don't believe every quote attributed to people on the Internet" -- Abraham Lincoln :D
Bludogdem
Posts: 2054
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 5:16 pm

Re: Texas Abortion Law Case

Post by Bludogdem »

ProfX wrote: Fri Dec 10, 2021 4:38 pm Well, bravissimo, we agree on something else.
I’m sure there’s more.
gounion
Posts: 17250
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:59 pm

Re: Texas Abortion Law Case

Post by gounion »

Bludogdem wrote: Fri Dec 10, 2021 7:12 pm I’m sure there’s more.
Doubtful.
Post Reply