Is this the high-water mark of our freedoms? Must-see.

[Drak]

Joe always talk out of his posterior and NEVER backs up anything he says with links. He reads right wing conspiracy sites pushing Trump’s propaganda and is obviously too embarrassed to link where he gets his information from. Remember, he also thought Uranium One was legit and needed to be investigated.

Christopher Steele worked the Russia desk at MI6. He’s an expert on Russian spy craft. It’s said that most of the dossier is accurate. Of course there will be inaccuracies. That’s how this stuff works and it wasn’t really meant for public consumption. Steele has said as much. It was originally funded by conservatives. No, it doesn’t make Clinton a pawn of Putin like Trump in any way, even if she somehow took over and paid Steele. No it’s not the same as Trump and Rudy and the GOP as per Hunter Biden. Rudy and Trump were dealing with pro Kremlin agents. And Russian agents didn’t work to put Clinton in the WH. And Clinton does not constantly praise Vladimir Putin.

[gounion]

I don't recall Joe EVER posting a link, although he demands them of others.

[carmenjonze]

Would a person who agrees with you on everything except sports participation be considered anti trans.

兔兒神
@chenchenwrites

incredible how often it's cis het white people being like "so you're only friends with ppl who share your same political beliefs? must be so boring!" and i'm like, yes, i love to be bored by only having friends who believe i should be alive, it's pretty fucking great actually


so weird how these people think i'd want a more "exciting" life by being friends with homophobes, transphobes, and white supremacists


wild, how abstract politics are to a lot of cis het white ppl. and how okay they are with being friends with ppl who want to destroy millions of lives. i also suspect that they think it's perfectly normal to be friends with ppl with whom you never talk about anything important


https://twitter.com/chenchenwrites/stat ... 2985250816

[carmenjonze]

I don't recall Joe EVER posting a link, although he demands them of others.

JoeMemphis is a low-rent Simon Legree. Do as I say, believe what I tell you, or else I'll throw a fit and start cussing. :problem:

[JoeMemphis]

You're such a fool, aren't you? You'll believe anything Trump puts out!

I deal in facts, not bullshit like this. Let's just remember that it's TRUMP who PUBLICLY asked that Putin and Russia reveal dirt on the Clintons, which they did just days afterwards.

But you're good with Russia helping Trump get elected. I'm not surprised. You guys love the idea of a autocracy, with a strongman dictator.

And yes, doing oppo research is a LOT different than a President trying to blackmail a country. But then, you're not on the Ukraine's side either, are you? You're rooting for Putin and Russia to crush the Ukraine. Why are we not surprised?

Says the man that wants to turn more and more responsibility over our daily lives to the government. Says the man that can’t wipe his ass, break wind or go outside without a note from Fauci. You are more authoritarian by far than I and you prove it all the time. You are as loyal as a love struck puppy. If you want authoritarian government then keep surrendering more and more responsibility to the government. That’s the recipe and you seem to be following it and arguing for it everyday. Keeping limits on government power isn’t authoritarian.

[carmenjonze]

Says the man that wants to turn more and more responsibility over our daily lives to the government. Says the man that can’t wipe his ass, break wind or go outside without a note from Fauci. You are more authoritarian by far than I and you prove it all the time. You are as loyal as a love struck puppy. If you want authoritarian government then keep surrendering more and more responsibility to the government. That’s the recipe and you seem to be following it and arguing for it everyday. Keeping limits on government power isn’t authoritarian.

Hey, how come you haven’t watched the video, yet?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ysZYwjuFes

[gounion]

Says the man that wants to turn more and more responsibility over our daily lives to the government. Says the man that can’t wipe his ass, break wind or go outside without a note from Fauci. You are more authoritarian by far than I and you prove it all the time. You are as loyal as a love struck puppy. If you want authoritarian government then keep surrendering more and more responsibility to the government. That’s the recipe and you seem to be following it and arguing for it everyday. Keeping limits on government power isn’t authoritarian.

Deciding women's medical decisions for them is authoritarian.

And you're a lying sack of shit as always. No one was FORCED to wear get a vaccination. All the other things you said we wanted to force onto people, like what kind of clothes to wear, just means you are a liar.

But we've known that the whole time you've been here, haven't we? You've lied about all kinds of things.

I'm for freedom in the bedroom. The woman you voted for at least twice wants to ban married couples from having birth control. So you can't say shit to us about being authoritarian.

[JoeMemphis]

Deciding women's medical decisions for them is authoritarian.

And you're a lying sack of shit as always. No one was FORCED to wear get a vaccination. All the other things you said we wanted to force onto people, like what kind of clothes to wear, just means you are a liar.

But we've known that the whole time you've been here, haven't we? You've lied about all kinds of things.

I'm for freedom in the bedroom. The woman you voted for at least twice wants to ban married couples from having birth control. So you can't say shit to us about being authoritarian.

That doesn’t change the fact that you favor much more government than I do. You prove it all the time. Your first instinct for every difficult problem is a government solution. That’s not my go to. That’s yours. First, foremost, almost every time. That’s authoritarian. That’s what you favor. That’s what you support.

So you can say many things about me but claiming that I’m authoritarian or totalitarian isn’t one of them. You are much closer to that than I will ever be.

[gounion]

That doesn’t change the fact that you favor much more government than I do. You prove it all the time. Your first instinct for every difficult problem is a government solution. That’s not my go to. That’s yours. First, foremost, almost every time. That’s authoritarian. That’s what you favor. That’s what you support.

So you can say many things about me but claiming that I’m authoritarian or totalitarian isn’t one of them. You are much closer to that than I will ever be.

Sorry, but your voting record gives lie to your statements. You vote for a nation where women have no rights over their own bodies. A nation where even a married couple can’t practice birth control. Your Senator envisions a world without Social Security, Medicare or Medicaid. Where the tax burden is pushed from the rich onto the poor. You champion a Governor who indoctrinates children politically. One that drives the largest employer from the state because they spoke out against his edicts.

If that’s not authoritarianism, I don’t know what it is.

[ZoWie]

> Joe Biden's Ministry of truth

That buzz phrase, carefully stolen and repurposed from an ancient Orwell novel on the worst aspects of 20th century autocracy, sure sounds like more brain poison from Donald Trump's Commissariat of Agitprop.

Sure looks like we have a poisoned brain here.

[JoeMemphis]

Sorry, but your voting record gives lie to your statements. You vote for a nation where women have no rights over their own bodies. A nation where even a married couple can’t practice birth control. Your Senator envisions a world without Social Security, Medicare or Medicaid. Where the tax burden is pushed from the rich onto the poor. You champion a Governor who indoctrinates children politically. One that drives the largest employer from the state because they spoke out against his edicts.

If that’s not authoritarianism, I don’t know what it is.

Your voting record gives lie to the “right to control one’s own body”. I had no issue with Roe. Still have no issue with Roe. I actually believe that what people do with their own body is their business as long as it doesn’t affect the rights of others. I consistently believe that. You however want to pick and choose where that right applies. You want that right when it comes to abortion but you readily ignore the right to choose when it comes to vaccination, mask wearing, the right to operate your business, etc.

You are the one trying to straddle this issue of choice and privacy. You are the one that wants it both ways. Not me. We aren’t talking about what other people support. We are talking about what you believe. What you support. I’m not asking you to defend someone elses’s beliefs as if they were your own. So instead of telling me what you think I believe and assigning positions to me I have never advocated, explain why you believe what you believe. Why don’t you start there. If you can. If you know.

[gounion]

Your voting record gives lie to the “right to control one’s own body”. I had no issue with Roe. Still have no issue with Roe. I actually believe that what people do with their own body is their business as long as it doesn’t affect the rights of others. I consistently believe that. You however want to pick and choose where that right applies. You want that right when it comes to abortion but you readily ignore the right to choose when it comes to vaccination, mask wearing, the right to operate your business, etc.

Look, you're the one who says you'll never vote for a Democrat. The people you vote for will take all rights of privacy away. Your problem, not mine. Deal with the reality.

Where do we differ on vaccination? Have I ever said we should force someone to take the vaccine?

You are the one trying to straddle this issue of choice and privacy. You are the one that wants it both ways. Not me. We aren’t talking about what other people support. We are talking about what you believe. What you support. I’m not asking you to defend someone elses’s beliefs as if they were your own. So instead of telling me what you think I believe and assigning positions to me I have never advocated, explain why you believe what you believe. Why don’t you start there. If you can. If you know.

It's really quite simple. The commons need to be regulated. Business and finance needs to be regulated. The government handles our currency. We have rules in doing business. That's the commons - the public sphere.

That's not about freedom, that's about rules in a free market. You have to have rules. Can you play a football game with no rules? Of course not.

And your class uses the courts far more than mine. How many times has Trump sued in the courts? I mean, he's the one that makes employees - and Presidential appointees - sign a gag order. I think those things should be outlawed.

But where I believe in the right of privacy is in the PRIVATE sphere. What you do in the privacy of your own home, and your body. Among consenting adults, who you love, who you marry, what positions you have sex in. I firmly believe that everyone should have the right to birth control. Whether you take a vaccine or not is your decision - and I've NEVER said otherwise. But then, you've got to lie, don't you? And, the people I vote for have never called for forced vaccination.

And you consistently vote to take those rights away. And then you pretend you don't agree with it. Your court will next go after gay marriage, and tell gays who have married that they no longer are. They'll also refuse the right of gay couples to adopt children - even though there's going to be a lot more children to adopt here in about a year. Your side will probably bring back orphanages since there won't be enough people to adopt.

That's the difference between us. My positions and votes are clear and logical and easily explained.

[JoeMemphis]

Look, you're the one who says you'll never vote for a Democrat. The people you vote for will take all rights of privacy away. Your problem, not mine. Deal with the reality.

Where do we differ on vaccination? Have I ever said we should force someone to take the vaccine?
It's really quite simple. The commons need to be regulated. Business and finance needs to be regulated. The government handles our currency. We have rules in doing business. That's the commons - the public sphere.

That's not about freedom, that's about rules in a free market. You have to have rules. Can you play a football game with no rules? Of course not.

And your class uses the courts far more than mine. How many times has Trump sued in the courts? I mean, he's the one that makes employees - and Presidential appointees - sign a gag order. I think those things should be outlawed.

But where I believe in the right of privacy is in the PRIVATE sphere. What you do in the privacy of your own home, and your body. Among consenting adults, who you love, who you marry, what positions you have sex in. I firmly believe that everyone should have the right to birth control. Whether you take a vaccine or not is your decision - and I've NEVER said otherwise. But then, you've got to lie, don't you? And, the people I vote for have never called for forced vaccination.

And you consistently vote to take those rights away. And then you pretend you don't agree with it. Your court will next go after gay marriage, and tell gays who have married that they no longer are. They'll also refuse the right of gay couples to adopt children - even though there's going to be a lot more children to adopt here in about a year. Your side will probably bring back orphanages since there won't be enough people to adopt.

That's the difference between us. My positions and votes are clear and logical and easily explained.

I didn’t say I would never vote for a democrat. I have voted for democrats in the past. But todays democrats and todays democratic platform is not something I can vote to support. So if voting for a senator puts Schumer in charge of the senate or voting for a rep puts Pelosi in charge of the house, I am not supportive. IMO that isn’t good for me, my family and friends or the country. You my vote as you please. I don’t ask you to defend your vote nor do I ask you to defend what other people in your party believe. They are not part of this discussion. It’s kinda stupid to ask me to defend someone else’s position, especially when I may not agree with their position. I am happy to speak to things where I have actually taken a position.

There’s are lots of differences between us. Thank goodness.

The government mandated a range of behaviors which restricted the freedoms of citizens. Mandates you defended and supported. Repeatedly. Governments encouraged private industry to coerce and mandate vaccines, and masking. Mandates you defended and encouraged. Repeatedly. You weren’t concerned about individual rights or freedoms. You weren’t concerned about anyones right to choose. You wanted what you wanted and were more than happy to have the government use whatever methods they could muster to force people to do what you wanted and believed regardless of what those individuals might have believed. So don’t pretend to tell me you are all that concerned about civil liberties or the right to choose. That changes like the wind with you. You flip flop more than a freshly caught fish.

[gounion]

I didn’t say I would never vote for a democrat. I have voted for democrats in the past. But todays democrats and todays democratic platform is not something I can vote to support. So if voting for a senator puts Schumer in charge of the senate or voting for a rep puts Pelosi in charge of the house, I am not supportive. IMO that isn’t good for me, my family and friends or the country. You my vote as you please. I don’t ask you to defend your vote nor do I ask you to defend what other people in your party believe. They are not part of this discussion. It’s kinda stupid to ask me to defend someone else’s position, especially when I may not agree with their position. I am happy to speak to things where I have actually taken a position.

Democrats today are far more moderate and centrist than in the past. So, I don't believe you've ever voted Democratic.

There’s are lots of differences between us. Thank goodness.

Only difference is I stand for what I believe, you run away and obfuscate.

The government mandated a range of behaviors which restricted the freedoms of citizens. Mandates you defended and supported. Repeatedly. Governments encouraged private industry to coerce and mandate vaccines, and masking.

There were never any mandates or coercion for vaccines. Simply a lie.

Mandates you defended and encouraged. Repeatedly. You weren’t concerned about individual rights or freedoms. You weren’t concerned about anyones right to choose.

Again, public vs. private sphere. What you do in public is subject to rules based upon public safety and sound medicine. Masking in public is acceptable for public safety. You don't have to go out if you don't want to.

You know, grocery stores and the government mandate shirts and shoes in restaurants and grocery stores. And pants, I presume. Why aren't you up in arms about THAT coercion?

But I never demanding or supported masking in one's home. Now, at one point, if anyone entered my space - my yard and my home, I asked them to wear a mask. Had they said no, I'd have told them to leave. I wore a mask when they were present.

I bet you are against that, too, right?

But my home, my rules. You don't have to enter. But that's the thing about the right - they think it's their right to bring their ideologies and religious beliefs and force them onto me in my home. They scream "free speech" when I close the door in their face.

You wanted what you wanted and were more than happy to have the government use whatever methods they could muster to force people to do what you wanted and believed regardless of what those individuals might have believed. So don’t pretend to tell me you are all that concerned about civil liberties or the right to choose. That changes like the wind with you. You flip flop more than a freshly caught fish.

You're more interested in corporate rights than you are human rights. You think business should be allowed to do whatever it wants, no matter how many people die.

Again, simply not true. But I don't expect you to understand the difference between the private and public sphere. You're not that smart.

[Drak]

Trying to protect the citizens of a country via temp mask mandates, IS NOT authoritarianism. I can't imagine what republicans would do if America was attacked by another country. They'd probably cry about being asked to stand up and help protect their country.

Passing laws controlling women's bodies, IS authoritarian
Passing anti gay laws, IS authoritarian
Throwing out voter registrations and making voting difficult, IS authoritarian
Passing laws that elections are decided by party, not the people, IS authoritarian
Pushing a blatant big lie that the election was stolen, IS authoritarian
Claiming a leader is always right, and never wrong, IS authoritarian
Banning books from States and schools, IS authoritarian
State run media channels, like Fox News, that constantly spread disinformation with alternate reality to radicalize viewers, is authoritarian.


Etc.

[gounion]

State run media channels, like Fox News, that constantly spread disinformation with alternate reality to radicalize viewers, is authoritarian.

Fox News is the REAL Ministry of Truth. They got their marching orders from President Trump himself. They led the attack on the capitol on Jan. 6th.

[carmenjonze]

But todays democrats and todays democratic platform is not something I can vote to support.

Good.

Don't, ever.

[carmenjonze]

Your voting record gives lie to the “right to control one’s own body”. I had no issue with Roe. Still have no issue with Roe.

You vote for the country's most antigay, anti-trans, big-government bedroom police in the country.

Sit down.

[Motor City]

?

How is he posturing when these measures affect him directly?

Well Yes as the democrats have had the power to challenge regressive forces all along but instead they side with them, they side with regressive forces over relief for millions they side with regressive forces over democracy, justice and progress and thats really one in the same with the development of this moment we find ourselves in. The democrats are fully invested in the regressive backslide for their own gain, dominance in the party system.

In the larger picture changing the subject to this highly polarizing dividing triggering issue is a way of relieving both parties from dealing with the countries problems or ceasing the regressive siege. It makes the coming elections all about control and power and none about solving problems or progress. Its more regression.

[carmenjonze]

Well Yes as the democrats have had the power to challenge regressive forces all along but instead they side with them, they side with regressive forces over relief for millions they side with regressive forces over democracy, justice and progress and thats really one in the same with the development of this moment we find ourselves in. The democrats are fully invested in the regressive backslide for their own gain, dominance in the party system.

In the larger picture changing the subject to this highly polarizing dividing triggering issue is a way of relieving both parties from dealing with the countries problems or ceasing the regressive siege. It makes the coming elections all about control and power and none about solving problems or progress. Its more regression.

I missed something. Who is changing the subject to a “highly polarizing dividing triggering issue”?

[Motor City]

I missed something. Who is changing the subject to a “highly polarizing dividing triggering issue”?

I guess the democrat and republican parties as they are the ones who allowed it to develop.

[ProfX]

Are they also changing the subject?

AOC, Bernie Sanders Urge Roe v. Wade Be Codified to Thwart Supreme Court
https://www.newsweek.com/aoc-bernie-san ... rt-1702813

Only one of them is a Democrat.

[carmenjonze]

I guess the democrat and republican parties as they are the ones who allowed it to develop.

That’s vague.

I’m not clear on how “democrat party” allowed Republican policies to develop.

Do you feel that people like Pete Buttigieg (or anyone) should not reply or respond to the Republican onslaught on our basic rights because it’s highly polarizing and triggering”?

The targets of this legislation are not going to let any of these people wedge-issue us. They try it every decade. This is just this decade’s version.

[Motor City]

Are they also changing the subject?

AOC, Bernie Sanders Urge Roe v. Wade Be Codified to Thwart Supreme Court
https://www.newsweek.com/aoc-bernie-san ... rt-1702813

Only one of them is a Democrat.

Looks like they are trying to get the democrats to stop siding with the forces of regression. Siding with the democratic party is siding with the parties self interest, siding with the republican party is siding with its self interest. We need to all side with humanity, democracy, justice, environments best interest.

[Glennfs]

Looks like they are trying to get the democrats to stop siding with the forces of regression. Siding with the democratic party is siding with the parties self interest, siding with the republican party is siding with its self interest. We need to all side with humanity, democracy, justice, environments best interest.

The problem with our political landscape today is nobody can compromise thanks to the internet.
Back in the day Ted Kennedy and Strom Thurmond could work out a compromise. Where they would support a little of what you want if you support a little of what I want.

In today's world most conservatives and progressives would figuratively starve before settling for anything less than the full loaf.
Let a Republican or a Democrat support even one thing out of one hundred that the other side supports and thet get branded a traitor for life.
Hopefully some day we get back to the days of compromise