The 2020 Presidential Candidate Thread

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Re: The 2020 Presidential Candidate Thread

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MaWi wrote: Williamson took on the "entrenched" political establishment and said principles which are inscribed in marble and on documents have been left to die in the American people themselves. The longtime self-help author said the religious and spiritual foundations of the U.S. -- and not the status quo -- ended slavery and enacted civil rights as she made the case that "harnessing emotions is crucial to beating Donald Trump."
K Marianne. Do you want to get into this? Yes, there were a lot of religious people who were abolitionists. There also were plenty that defended slavery and said the Bible justified it through the Curse of Ham.

You can't pretend one group existed, but the other didn't.

BTW, harnessing emotions is fine, people should be angry, upset, at injustice and incompetence and everything else, but we also need reason to come up with policies that work, and are not just dreams of unicorns and rainbows. What bothers me in your message is you seem to think rationalists are part of this "establishment" you don't like, and that's why I don't like YOU.
"I think this is one of those times in American history [that requires a spiritual leader]."
Marianne ... listen ... this is not a theocracy. We do not elect spiritual leadership. If you want to provide the nation "spiritual leadership" you don't do it from the Oval Office. You want to be the spiritual and moral conscience of the nation ... grand. Running for POTUS means you need to run a political bureaucracy full of apparatchiks, and you need to understand and discuss policy, not just direct your spiritual energy.

You don't seem to want to talk about policy, just about light, spiritual energy, and glowing chakras. Maybe it has to do with the fact that you have never held a political, elective office. Maybe I prefer people who do that before I let them get the nuclear codes. The current guy with zero prior experience is also not working out so well.
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Re: The 2020 Presidential Candidate Thread

Post by Motor City »

ProfessorX wrote:
K Marianne. Do you want to get into this? Yes, there were a lot of religious people who were abolitionists. There also were plenty that defended slavery and said the Bible justified it through the Curse of Ham.

You can't pretend one group existed, but the other didn't.

BTW, harnessing emotions is fine, people should be angry, upset, at injustice and incompetence and everything else, but we also need reason to come up with policies that work, and are not just dreams of unicorns and rainbows. What bothers me in your message is you seem to think rationalists are part of this "establishment" you don't like, and that's why I don't like YOU.



Marianne ... listen ... this is not a theocracy. We do not elect spiritual leadership. If you want to provide the nation "spiritual leadership" you don't do it from the Oval Office. You want to be the spiritual and moral conscience of the nation ... grand. Running for POTUS means you need to run a political bureaucracy full of apparatchiks, and you need to understand and discuss policy, not just direct your spiritual energy.

You don't seem to want to talk about policy, just about light, spiritual energy, and glowing chakras. Maybe it has to do with the fact that you have never held a political, elective office. Maybe I prefer people who do that before I let them get the nuclear codes. The current guy with zero prior experience is also not working out so well.
maybe you are being a bit heavy handed with Marianne
.....During the tense early hours of the invasion, FDR monitored reports from the front. That evening, he delivered a statement to the American people. It took the form of a prayer, which he read on national radio.......
[BBvideo 425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2IRcc-5RgA[/BBvideo]

https://www.fdrlibrary.org/d-day" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

lots of really experienced people got us into endless wars economic terror and made us vulnerable to mass shootings, they made it policy to sell millitary weapons to the public and have yet to do anything to help us. I like experience as much as anyone but experience hasnt helped us with these things.

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Re: The 2020 Presidential Candidate Thread

Post by Libertas »

huh?

So you could vote for her or someone else 3rd party ?
Excuse me while I use a BROAD BRUSH to say anyone who spends one minute defending anything rump is just as guilty as he is of all his crimes

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Re: The 2020 Presidential Candidate Thread

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Motor City » Thu Sep 05, 2019 6:51 pm wrote:Maybe you're a bit heavy handed with Marianne.
Dunno, I'd stop trash talking her if she'd stop trash talking me. She doesn't seem to like people who approach problems as rationalists, so I don't like her. Tell her to stop criticizing me, I might stop criticizing her.

Yeah, I'd have no problem with FDR's prayer unless he said his prayer was going to make the Nazis all drop their weapons and give up on D-Day. Or that with Heaven on our side, angels were going to appear and strike them down. Offering a prayer to give our troops confidence before they go into battle ... got no problem with that. I'd even say it can help.

Presidents are allowed to pray and make prayers in public. Got nothing against that. They are not the nation's "spiritual leaders," though.

Your followup seems to me though like a very shitty and weak argument for lack of experience, personally.

Get rid of the people with bad experience and judgement, and find the ones with good ones. They're out there. I bet you even agree with me Bernie Sanders is one and so is Liz Warren. I also happen to think both are more qualified than her, and have better thought out policy positions.

Lots of our candidates have plans for getting military weapons off our streets, making our economy more fair and just, and I don't know of any running on starting wars, endless or otherwise.

Ok, personally, I like Liz over Bernie, but anyway. I just think they're both better than Marianne.

BTW, if my choice in the primary was between Marianne and Andrew Yang (unlikely hypothetical but anyway) ... I would pick Yang over her in a heartbeat. Because he's got a rational approach, AND the right issues to talk about.
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Re: The 2020 Presidential Candidate Thread

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ProfessorX » Thu Sep 05, 2019 1:12 pm wrote:
I'm not mocking voters. I'm mocking ideas. Ideas don't vote, can't have hurt feelings, and are in peoples' minds.

I get a lot of people don't like the distinction, but it's real - mocking ideas is not the same thing as mocking people.

And yes, I don't appreciate Marianne refusing to appreciate the distinction.

I'm not going to say foolish ideas aren't foolish, not to make her happy, or anybody else. Just won't.

Believing prayer will make a hurricane change course is a foolish idea. There is zero evidence it is true. Not only that, but what's worse is it makes it seem like the people who WERE hit by the hurricane, now or later, are ... what ... lacking in prayer? Love? Light? Spiritual Energy? This idea is stupid.

PLEASE QUOTE ME ON THAT. I don't care what voters are listening.
You have a lot to learn about people. You might be able to separate ideas from those who bear them, but they will not be able to make that same separation. If you mock someones ideas you're effectively mocking them.

Your ivy tower explanation simply doesn't gel in the real world.

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Re: The 2020 Presidential Candidate Thread

Post by Libertas »

Did I already post here somewhere that I am already predicting that when Bernie loses the nom he will go 3rd party?

He cant wait four more years and Bernie cares about Bernie first and foremost.

and I just saw Sam's asinine response to the prof



:rw)

sad
Excuse me while I use a BROAD BRUSH to say anyone who spends one minute defending anything rump is just as guilty as he is of all his crimes

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Re: The 2020 Presidential Candidate Thread

Post by Sam Lefthand »

What a maroon.

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Re: The 2020 Presidential Candidate Thread

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Image

What's that Ike once said? Beliefs basically are the ideas we keep repeating to ourselves, over and over again, every day ....

That's why I agree with Chris. Better to have ideas, this seems to be why people are so reluctant to change beliefs. Too over invested in them.

When that investment gets too heavy, they turn into ... Dogmas. Or, zealotry, if you prefer Erica Jong.

I understand people have difficulty separating themselves from their ideas. However, I have heard quite a bit of Buddhist training focuses on that very problem.

Our nature is to want to treat attacks on our ideas as attacks on ourselves. You can shed bad ideas more quickly once you realize this.
Something that needs to be unlearned, my spiritual guidance for today, O Blessed ones. ;)

Namaste.

Image
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Re: The 2020 Presidential Candidate Thread

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ProfessorX » Thu Sep 05, 2019 4:57 pm wrote:Image

What's that Ike once said? Beliefs basically are the ideas we keep repeating to ourselves, over and over again, every day ....

That's why I agree with Chris. Better to have ideas, this seems to be why people are so reluctant to change beliefs. Too over invested in them.

When that investment gets too heavy, they turn into ... Dogmas. Or, zealotry, if you prefer Erica Jong.

I understand people have difficulty separating themselves from their ideas. However, I have heard quite a bit of Buddhist training focuses on that very problem.

Our nature is to want to treat attacks on our ideas as attacks on ourselves. You can shed bad ideas more quickly once you realize this.
Something that needs to be unlearned, my spiritual guidance for today, O Blessed ones. ;)

Namaste.

Image
Namaste


There's another way to get at this, two of the words you have placed in your statements modifying the word "ideas" are incompatible with your idea. The first one you applied was "mock" the second usage was "attack". Those words don't apply to ideas, they apply to persons, the first voices it directly attacks and the second making light of those persons thus attacking them.

"Criticize" is a fine neutral word which can be directly applied to nice squeaky clean"ideas."

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Re: The 2020 Presidential Candidate Thread

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Sam Lefthand » Thu Sep 05, 2019 4:49 pm wrote:
You have a lot to learn about people. You might be able to separate ideas from those who bear them, but they will not be able to make that same separation. If you mock someones ideas you're effectively mocking them.

Your ivy tower explanation simply doesn't gel in the real world.
The ivory tower is the real world. It's certainly not imaginary for anyone in it.

It's absurd to think that mocking ideas is mocking people. Some people are overidentified with intangibles like ideas. That's all the more reason to mock the idea, really. IDK if you've ever had a crisis of faith, but those can be key to personal growth, be it because somebody mocked your idea or you came about it in a different way. This is part of what the First Amendment is about: ideas aren't people or persons.

Stop calling the cops on us.

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Re: The 2020 Presidential Candidate Thread

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Ok, you are correct. I will use the verb "critique" rather than "mock" or "attack".

In our Ivy Towers we have a long tradition of festooning our moats that way. :D

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/critical-theory/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Marianne Williamson's claim that hurricanes can be shifted via prayer should be critiqued.

Oh and one more thing, as we have a Mencken fan on the board. I agree with Mencken on this. (From Wikiquote)

"The final test of truth is ridicule. Very few dogmas have ever faced it and survived. Huxley laughed the devils out of the Gadarene swine. Not the laws of the United States but the mother-in-law joke brought the Mormons to surrender. Not the horror of it but the absurdity of it killed the doctrine of infant damnation. But the razor edge of ridicule is turned by the tough hide of truth."
"On Truth" in Damn! A Book of Calumny (1918), p. 53
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Re: The 2020 Presidential Candidate Thread

Post by Sam Lefthand »

ProfessorX » Thu Sep 05, 2019 5:37 pm wrote:Ok, you are correct. I will use the verb "critique" rather than "mock" or "attack".

In our Ivy Towers we have a long tradition of festooning our moats that way. :D

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/critical-theory/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Marianne Williamson's claim that hurricanes can be shifted via prayer should be critiqued.

Oh and one more thing, as we have a Mencken fan on the board. I agree with Mencken on this. (From Wikiquote)

"The final test of truth is ridicule. Very few dogmas have ever faced it and survived. Huxley laughed the devils out of the Gadarene swine. Not the laws of the United States but the mother-in-law joke brought the Mormons to surrender. Not the horror of it but the absurdity of it killed the doctrine of infant damnation. But the razor edge of ridicule is turned by the tough hide of truth."
"On Truth" in Damn! A Book of Calumny (1918), p. 53
I thought that time the article spends on defining their usage of "Critical Theory" was interesting.

In the following, Critical Theory when capitalized refers only to the Frankfurt School. All other uses of the term are meant in the broader sense and thus not capitalized.

If a Physicist capitalizes "Critical Theory": a) They will most likely be a theoretical Physicist; b) They will be talking about the Universe, the "big bang" or worse. Real flesh searing creation stuff, very exciting.

:)

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Re: The 2020 Presidential Candidate Thread

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Ok Sorry. Can't resist. Why don't we run this loon, err, excuse me, lady, for President? Hat tip to David Pakman, who mentioned Kat Kerr on his show.

As Dozens Die, Christian “Prophetess” Takes Credit for Crushing Hurricane Dorian
https://friendlyatheist.patheos.com/201 ... ne-dorian/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Kat Kerr, the self-proclaimed Christian “Prophetess” who recently declared authority over Hurricane Dorian through the power of her prayers, is now taking credit for the fact that it’s no longer a Category 5 storm.

Because it’s her prayers that did it. Nothing else.

[snip][end]

[BBvideo 425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXhPk4_jiWE[/BBvideo]

I'm sorry. This is just fucking hilarious. I am allowed to say that, right? :mrgreen: It's her hair that really shows me divine power courses through her. :roll:

BTW, I guess in order to be a "Christian Prophetess" you need somebody to repeat all your Harry Potter magic incantations a second time off-camera ... right? :roll: :roll:
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Re: The 2020 Presidential Candidate Thread

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It's even more hilarious when the self proclaimed unwashed prophet is standing before you and you can both smell his breath and through your skin can absorb his breathless spittle in person like.

She looks to be the uses heavy perfume kind. Not just perfume, caked on base makeup also smells to me like perfume. And hair stuff.

That stuff leaves me breathless. :|

Sometimes I sneeze.

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Re: The 2020 Presidential Candidate Thread

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Sources: Cuomo Pushes to Move NY Presidential Primary to February

Governor Cuomo is pushing to upend the presidential primary calendar, making New York jump close to the head of the line by having voters head to the polls in February instead of late April, sources tell NY1.

Cuomo is considering vetoing a bill that would set the presidential primary on April 28, putting it just weeks after the pivotal Iowa caucuses and New Hampshire primary instead.

https://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/po ... o-february" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: The 2020 Presidential Candidate Thread

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MotorCity wrote:.....During the tense early hours of the invasion, FDR monitored reports from the front. That evening, he delivered a statement to the American people. It took the form of a prayer, which he read on national radio.......
It's interesting. As always, I was curious to find out more about FDR's D-Day prayer, and I found out there has been an effort to get it added to the DC WW II Memorial. Led by Rob Portman, R-OH, since 2013-2014. What I find interesting is who's against it, and who's for it. I like that prayer as it definitely tries to be nonsectarian, but it's the way people are weaponizing it in the present I find really interesting.

[from Wikipedia]
The bill was opposed by the American Civil Liberties Union, the American Jewish Committee, Americans United for Separation of Church and State, the Hindu American Foundation, and the Interfaith Alliance.[6] Together the organizations argued that the bill "endorses the false notion that all veterans will be honored by a war memorial that includes a prayer proponents characterize as reflecting our country's 'Judeo-Christian heritage and values.'"[6] The organizations argued that "the memorial, as it currently stands, appropriately honors those who served and encompasses the entirety of the war" and was carefully created, so no additional elements, such as FDR's prayer, need to be added.[6] According to the organizations, "the effect of this bill, however, is to co-opt religion for political purposes, which harms the beliefs of everyone."[6] Simon Brown, of the Americans United for Separation of Church and State, said that "American veterans - like those currently in the armed forces - come from many different religious traditions and some follow no spiritual path at all. Slapping a prayer onto a memorial that honors all those veterans would be an insult to both their service and their sacrifice.

[snip][end]

BTW, the Obama administration also opposed Rob Portman's bill. At least initially.

So who was for it?

https://www.beliefnet.com/columnists/ne ... morial.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

... the Christian Coalition ... Pat Robertson and Ralph Reed's group.
... the Ohio Christian Alliance ... which has sought to fight LGBTQ protections in Medina and elsewhere
... Rev. Pat Mahoney's Christian Defense Coalition ... not to be confused with the Robertson group, but it supported Roy Moore in Alabama and Operation Rescue
... Tony Perkins and his "Family Research Council" (listed as hate group by SPLC)

So, who to side with? ACLU and AU or Tony Perkins and Pat Mahoney? Choices, choices ... OK, didn't take me long. :D

I have no problem with FDR's prayer, but I sure don't like the people trying to add it to the WW II memorial.
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Re: The 2020 Presidential Candidate Thread

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In other candidate news, ... Howard, don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya.

The coffee man goeth before he ever arrived ... not sorry to see ya go, Howard, as you seemed determined to help Trump win by running as an Indy. Tell your pal Mike Bloombnuts to do the same thing.

Howard Schultz drops plans to run as independent candidate in 2020
https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/06/politics ... index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: The 2020 Presidential Candidate Thread

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On the Republican side ... sorry, 2020 Republican voters, no primaries for you. BTW, this is what real "anointing" ACTUALLY looks like.

Republicans to scrap primaries and caucuses as Trump challengers cry foul
The moves, which critics called undemocratic, are the latest illustration of the president's total takeover of the GOP apparatus.
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/09/ ... rs-1483126" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Four states are poised to cancel their 2020 GOP presidential primaries and caucuses, a move that would cut off oxygen to Donald Trump’s long-shot primary challengers.

Republican parties in South Carolina, Nevada, Arizona and Kansas are expected to finalize the cancellations in meetings this weekend, according to three GOP officials who are familiar with the plans.

[snip][end]

So sorry, Weld, Walsh, and (mebbe) Sanford ... so sorry R voters in SC, NV, AZ, or KS ... you thought your party might give you a chance to choose somebody other than Schlump to be your nominee ... you were wrong, the RNC and the parties in these states have clearly decided the party is now Trumpland, no questions asked, and beatings will continue until morale improves.
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Re: The 2020 Presidential Candidate Thread

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https://www.marianne2020.com/live

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sP1IDWiLhU4

Marianne Williamson live from Manchester, NH
Scheduled to broadcast 9/6/19 7:30pm - 9/6/19 9:30pm

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Re: The 2020 Presidential Candidate Thread

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Motor City » Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:33 pm wrote:https://www.marianne2020.com/live

Marianne Williamson live from Manchester, NH
Scheduled to broadcast 9/6/19 7:30pm - 9/6/19 9:30pm
Marianne Williamson is a left-spoiler. She's an interesting enough celebrity but one that was only made possible by a no-experience carnival barker like Donald Trump.

They are out of the same showbiz/circus/tent-revival lineage, in this way.

Stop calling the cops on us.

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Re: The 2020 Presidential Candidate Thread

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carmenjonze » Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:48 pm wrote:
Marianne Williamson is a left-spoiler. She's an interesting enough celebrity but one that was only made possible by a no-experience carnival barker like Donald Trump.

They are out of the same showbiz/circus/tent-revival lineage, in this way.
KGB and others will appeal to her ego and work the FB folks into supporting her to take votes away the way Stein did.

Bernie will run 3rd party when he loses, etc. Bernie cant run again after 2020 and he knows it, so be prepared for that insanity
Excuse me while I use a BROAD BRUSH to say anyone who spends one minute defending anything rump is just as guilty as he is of all his crimes

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Re: The 2020 Presidential Candidate Thread

Post by Sam Lefthand »

How could anyone possibly prepare themselves for a coming insanity?

:|

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Re: The 2020 Presidential Candidate Thread

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https://www.c-span.org/video/?463579-1/ ... ention&vod

SEPTEMBER 7, 2019

New Hampshire Democratic Party Convention

The New Hampshire Democratic Party held its state convention with appearances by 19 of the Democratic presidential candidates.

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Re: The 2020 Presidential Candidate Thread

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He's in. Donald Trump now has three primary opponents. If the RNC actually allows any actual primaries, of course.

Sanford says he is launching primary challenge against Trump
https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/08/politics ... index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In case you've forgotten, Sanford is the former Guv who disappeared from his state for a week or so, and when asked where he was, his staff said "Hiking the Appalachian Trail".

Yeah, he was seeking out some t(r)ail alright, it just happened to be that of his Argentine mistress.

Think Donald will bring that up in debates? :D Will it be extremely hypocritical of the adulterer-in-chief? Yeah, never stopped him before.
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Re: The 2020 Presidential Candidate Thread

Post by Libertas »

ProfessorX » Sun Sep 08, 2019 7:35 am wrote:He's in. Donald Trump now has three primary opponents. If the RNC actually allows any actual primaries, of course.

Sanford says he is launching primary challenge against Trump
https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/08/politics ... index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In case you've forgotten, Sanford is the former Guv who disappeared from his state for a week or so, and when asked where he was, his staff said "Hiking the Appalachian Trail".

Yeah, he was seeking out some t(r)ail alright, it just happened to be that of his Argentine mistress.

Think Donald will bring that up in debates? :D Will it be extremely hypocritical of the adulterer-in-chief? Yeah, never stopped him before.
GOP is cancelling primaries because as most of us know, they HATE democracy.

What more proof do the ASSHOLES who support them need?
Excuse me while I use a BROAD BRUSH to say anyone who spends one minute defending anything rump is just as guilty as he is of all his crimes

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