Have you looked at Ukraine lately? What exactly are you trying to save by way of war?
Ukraine
Re: Ukraine
Of course, the plan was always to keep Kim as a national pariah, not giving him standing as a world leader, and to keep anyone, including China, from trading with him. That plan worked through the Bush II and Obama Administrations, and Kim was choked off from the materials he needed.
But Trump elevated Kim to a legitimate world leader, and the pressure for China not to trade with him vanished, and he went back into full production.
And Glenn championed Trump's actions.
But Trump elevated Kim to a legitimate world leader, and the pressure for China not to trade with him vanished, and he went back into full production.
And Glenn championed Trump's actions.
Re: Ukraine
So it would have been better for Putin to have rolled over them, right?Motor City wrote: ↑Mon Jan 16, 2023 8:33 am Have you looked at Ukraine lately? What exactly are you trying to save by way of war?
Re: Ukraine
Ukraine isn’t losing here. Should they just roll over to an army that rapes, mutilates and murders women and children? Who claim the Ukrainian people are sub human and should be obliterated? What would your attitude be if your country was invaded?Motor City wrote: ↑Mon Jan 16, 2023 8:33 am Have you looked at Ukraine lately? What exactly are you trying to save by way of war?
"Some of those that work forces,
Are the same that burn crosses"
- Rage Against the Machine
Are the same that burn crosses"
- Rage Against the Machine
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Re: Ukraine
No Im saying we all shouldnt be rolled over and into rooting for endless war that doesnt solve endless war. On this day especially that we honor MLK who prophecied to us the transformation we are currently going through with militarization, imperialism and racism.
Re: Ukraine
Look, this isn't endless war. This is a people fighting for their freedom. Period. This isn't Vietnam.Motor City wrote: ↑Mon Jan 16, 2023 9:02 am No Im saying we all shouldnt be rolled over and into rooting for endless war that doesnt solve endless war. On this day especially that we honor MLK who prophecied to us the transformation we are currently going through with militarization, imperialism and racism.
Now, you tell us. The ONLY way to end this war now is for the Ukrainian people to give up and surrender to Putin.
What is your solution?
Re: Ukraine
No one is rooting for “endless war.”Motor City wrote: ↑Mon Jan 16, 2023 9:02 am No Im saying we all shouldnt be rolled over and into rooting for endless war that doesnt solve endless war. On this day especially that we honor MLK who prophecied to us the transformation we are currently going through with militarization, imperialism and racism.
Vlad doesn’t give a crap that it’s MLK day. They are torturing, raping and murdering the Ukrainian people.
"Some of those that work forces,
Are the same that burn crosses"
- Rage Against the Machine
Are the same that burn crosses"
- Rage Against the Machine
Re: Ukraine
Ukraine is on Putin, and to a lesser extent drumpf.
The sudden loss of grain which made food prices go crazy, and to a lesser extent the shortage of natural gas which is costing us $1000 to heat our house this crazy winter, is also on them, not me, nor on the Democratic Party. It's TFG's mess for being ignorant, and the Republican Party's mess for encouraging globalization at any cost.
War for its own sake is never the answer, but Putin thought it was. Drumpf and his oligarchic cabal was in bed with the Russian plutocrats and encouraged Putin for financial reasons, creating a monster, and now we don't have a lot of alternatives. Putin has made noises about conquering his way clear back to Berlin. It's probably just propaganda, but with crazies like him, one never knows for sure.
There are two ways to stop him. One would involve a targeted assassination by a third player, the failure of which would likely cause human extinction. The other is to support the country he invaded by maintaining the balance of power, even though it also has a very small possibility of turning this planet into a dead radioactive mess. Either one is fraught with many unknowns and neither is a completely satisfactory answer. However, Ukraine isn't Indochina, there is no bullshit anti-communism hysteria, and some clown really did launch his country's military for shits and grins against another one just like all the aristocratic fun and games in the 17th Century. Some people seem to be slow learners.
The sudden loss of grain which made food prices go crazy, and to a lesser extent the shortage of natural gas which is costing us $1000 to heat our house this crazy winter, is also on them, not me, nor on the Democratic Party. It's TFG's mess for being ignorant, and the Republican Party's mess for encouraging globalization at any cost.
War for its own sake is never the answer, but Putin thought it was. Drumpf and his oligarchic cabal was in bed with the Russian plutocrats and encouraged Putin for financial reasons, creating a monster, and now we don't have a lot of alternatives. Putin has made noises about conquering his way clear back to Berlin. It's probably just propaganda, but with crazies like him, one never knows for sure.
There are two ways to stop him. One would involve a targeted assassination by a third player, the failure of which would likely cause human extinction. The other is to support the country he invaded by maintaining the balance of power, even though it also has a very small possibility of turning this planet into a dead radioactive mess. Either one is fraught with many unknowns and neither is a completely satisfactory answer. However, Ukraine isn't Indochina, there is no bullshit anti-communism hysteria, and some clown really did launch his country's military for shits and grins against another one just like all the aristocratic fun and games in the 17th Century. Some people seem to be slow learners.
"We must remember that we cannot abandon the truth and remain a free nation." --Liz Cheney, Republican, 7/21/22
Re: Ukraine
I think this IS different. We're giving the Ukraine stronger and better weapons, now we're giving them tanks. All the while Russia's best weaponry has already been destroyed, they are out of ammo, and the soldiers are deserting as quickly as they can.ZoWie wrote: ↑Mon Jan 16, 2023 11:42 am Ukraine is on Putin, and to a lesser extent drumpf.
The sudden loss of grain which made food prices go crazy, and to a lesser extent the shortage of natural gas which is costing us $1000 to heat our house this crazy winter, is also on them, not me, nor on the Democratic Party. It's TFG's mess for being ignorant, and the Republican Party's mess for encouraging globalization at any cost.
War for its own sake is never the answer, but Putin thought it was. Drumpf and his oligarchic cabal was in bed with the Russian plutocrats and encouraged Putin for financial reasons, creating a monster, and now we don't have a lot of alternatives. Putin has made noises about conquering his way clear back to Berlin. It's probably just propaganda, but with crazies like him, one never knows for sure.
There are two ways to stop him. One would involve a targeted assassination by a third player, the failure of which would likely cause human extinction. The other is to support the country he invaded by maintaining the balance of power, even though it also has a very small possibility of turning this planet into a dead radioactive mess. Either one is fraught with many unknowns and neither is a completely satisfactory answer. However, Ukraine isn't Indochina, there is no bullshit anti-communism hysteria, and some clown really did launch his country's military for shits and grins against another one just like all the aristocratic fun and games in the 17th Century. Some people seem to be slow learners.
This war shows how much of a paper tiger Russia is militarily, all they have are nukes. I think this show of NATO force will keep China from invading Taiwan. Our problem with the invasion is that we're reliant on Chinese chips and other tech to run our defense production, and China cutting us off could be a disaster. Good thing Biden signed the CHIPS Act. Hopefully soon we'll have that rectified.
Re: Ukraine
It will take years to get domestic chip production up and running in commercial quantities, but it's a good thing, and it's a major accomplishment for a Democratic president to get it through the typically obstructionist Congress. We won't be seeing anything else like that for at least two years.
There's a real shortage of the materials used to make chips, which are mined and not widely found. They just found a new deposit of some important mineral or metal or something, and that will help.
No chips and the world grinds to a halt. This is the technology we have made for ourselves, and now everything relies on it, and for better or worse we're stuck with it.
There's a real shortage of the materials used to make chips, which are mined and not widely found. They just found a new deposit of some important mineral or metal or something, and that will help.
No chips and the world grinds to a halt. This is the technology we have made for ourselves, and now everything relies on it, and for better or worse we're stuck with it.
"We must remember that we cannot abandon the truth and remain a free nation." --Liz Cheney, Republican, 7/21/22
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Re: Ukraine
Well then when is the end then? 6 months, 9 years 20 years when? How free are the people to be warm in the frigid cold, to go to a hospital when they need to, to feel safe and secure, to provide for their families, to have a residence?
Yes it is Vietnam. It is proxy war and war of attrition and perversion of the affluent all over the globe wasting resources so the vulnerable, the impoverished will be further left out, starved out, terrorized, traumatized.
I never said any such thing about giving up except that we should not surrender to endless war, war mongers, or business war folks.
We should use international diplomacy and stop it all together and work out whatever issues that way instead of Killing, traumatizing, and destroying Ukraine and its people.
Re: Ukraine
No, it isn’t. We can’t put our own troops in, because we can’t risk nuclear war with Russia, but this war is being waged to win. Vietnam was never being waged to win.Motor City wrote: ↑Mon Jan 16, 2023 5:20 pm Well then when is the end then? 6 months, 9 years 20 years when? How free are the people to be warm in the frigid cold, to go to a hospital when they need to, to feel safe and secure, to provide for their families, to have a residence?
Yes it is Vietnam. It is proxy war and war of attrition and perversion of the affluent all over the globe wasting resources so the vulnerable, the impoverished will be further left out, starved out, terrorized, traumatized.
I never said any such thing about giving up except that we should not surrender to endless war, war mongers, or business war folks.
We should use international diplomacy and stop it all together and work out whatever issues that way instead of Killing, traumatizing, and destroying Ukraine and its people.
Now, if we let Russia declare a cease-fire, they’ll use it to re-arm during the winter mud season. THAT’S how you prolong this war.
But the USA and NATO is helping the people of Ukraine to WIN this war.
Re: Ukraine
To win back the freedom of the Ukraine people.
Look, they were INVADED. It wasn't a situation of two sides having a fight. Russia was the aggressor, and the Ukraine is defending itself.
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Re: Ukraine
Then why isn't the United States, with its vast resources and standing, working toward ending the conflict and using diplomacy? Why are they acting as if the only means available are to sell weapons and siphon off the treasury as their own citizens wallow in epidemics of poverty, violence, inequality, injustice, suicide, pandemic, and health care segregation? Is it that they would rather rebuild whats being destroyed over and over and over till money that would otherwise be spent on Americans is depleted.
US to help Ukraine repair power grid after Russian strikes
Or perhaps the military industrial complex as bloated and mammoth as it is has appetites that it cant refrain from needs to be fed and fed and fed and fed no matter how it goes about it.....The Biden administration is providing $125 million for electrical parts and other supplies to help repair crews in Ukraine keep up with Russian strikes pounding the country's electrical system, the U.S. international development aid chief said Wednesday.
The U.S. Agency for International Development plans to use the money to procure backup power for Kyiv's water and district-heating systems. The funding also will help replenish supplies of gas turbines, transformers and other vital power equipment.....
Re: Ukraine
At this point, the only diplomatic solution is to let Putin do what he wants, take the Ukraine for his own. Why do you want to hand the Ukraine to him?Motor City wrote: ↑Wed Jan 18, 2023 3:36 pm Then why isn't the United States, with its vast resources and standing, working toward ending the conflict and using diplomacy? Why are they acting as if the only means available are to sell weapons and siphon off the treasury as their own citizens wallow in epidemics of poverty, violence, inequality, injustice, suicide, pandemic, and health care segregation? Is it that they would rather rebuild whats being destroyed over and over and over till money that would otherwise be spent on Americans is depleted.
US to help Ukraine repair power grid after Russian strikes
Or perhaps the military industrial complex as bloated and mammoth as it is has appetites that it cant refrain from needs to be fed and fed and fed and fed no matter how it goes about it.
Re: Ukraine
No I posted on the wrong thread.
But, every night before I go to bed I pray to God to make me perfect and as intelligent as you.
" I am a socialist " Bernie Sanders
Re: Ukraine
No I accidentally posted my covid comment here.
But of course you know what I really did.
" I am a socialist " Bernie Sanders
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Re: Ukraine
I just dont understand putting all of our trust in violence and destruction and no effort or work into diplomacy. There haven't even been any attempts at diplomacy. Does that seem right to you?
It looks like putin is already doing what he wants, the longer it goes on the more uninhabitable Ukraine becomes, the more Ukraine becomes haunted by the trauma and terror and ghosts what was and never will be again. The longer it goes on the more people live with it on the inside. The more people that live with it on the inside the more disfunctional people and societies with that on their insides become.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrZFscfJxXc
The sirens blaring do you hear that?
Re: Ukraine
It takes both sides wanting to make peace, and only one side to make war. Putin doesn't want peace, he wants victory and the subjugation of the Ukraine people.Motor City wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 8:29 pm I just dont understand putting all of our trust in violence and destruction and no effort or work into diplomacy. There haven't even been any attempts at diplomacy. Does that seem right to you?
It looks like putin is already doing what he wants, the longer it goes on the more uninhabitable Ukraine becomes, the more Ukraine becomes haunted by the trauma and terror and ghosts what was and never will be again. The longer it goes on the more people live with it on the inside. The more people that live with it on the inside the more disfunctional people and societies with that on their insides become.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrZFscfJxXc
The sirens blaring do you hear that?
We can make peace now. Give Putin the Ukraine. If that's what you want, than say so.