Racist/Corrupt/Immoral Police Thread.

[JoeMemphis]

Both parties need to reform the system. More accountability, fewer games and staged events for the press like the House voting that socialism is bad, while we can't even equitably divide up the Colorado River.

Not much I can do about the Colorado River but I get your point.

[Motor City]

Yes it would. It goes back to training, better pay and benefits, better recruits, better screening techniques and a strategy to change the conversation and the relationship with the public. Both parties need to trust the system.

The police aren't even supposed to punish people just to enforce the law or make an arrest or citation, we have courts to determine things like guilt or innocence and punishment or restitution. When they insert themselves and their egos in between the public and its systems of justice and act as death squads or terror squads they become the biggest underminers of law and order that there is. If you want to make a dramatic difference in crime and respect for law and order, do economic justice and keep democracy representative of the public and the public interest and not special or corporate interests.

[ZoWie]

Maybe the House will vote to condemn participatory democracy next.

Oh, and ice storms. We need a no-nonsense resolution against them.

Basically, how can we speculate about police reform when the government won't even govern?

[JoeMemphis]

Maybe the House will vote to condemn participatory democracy next.

Oh, and ice storms. We need a no-nonsense resolution against them.

Basically, how can we speculate about police reform when the government won't even govern?

That’s the beauty of our country. State and local law enforcement are not nationalized. So the national government can do what it’s been doing for the last several decades. Hopefully at some point in time they will figure it out. In the meantime, I wouldn’t add anything to their already dysfunctional plate. Not state and local law enforcement. Not health care. Not education or school choice. If those things change, they are best done at the state and local level.

[JoeMemphis]

The police aren't even supposed to punish people just to enforce the law or make an arrest or citation, we have courts to determine things like guilt or innocence and punishment or restitution. When they insert themselves and their egos in between the public and its systems of justice and act as death squads or terror squads they become the biggest underminers of law and order that there is. If you want to make a dramatic difference in crime and respect for law and order, do economic justice and keep democracy representative of the public and the public interest and not special or corporate interests.

As I said earlier, the vast majority of day to day encounters between law enforcement and the public end peacefully according tonthebDOJ’s own numbers. Well over 90 percent. I think we need to focus on driving that number higher. So I would not scrap something that works over 90 to 95 percent of the time. I would figure out how to fix the 5 to 10 percent that are exceptions.

[gounion]

That’s the beauty of our country. State and local law enforcement are not nationalized. So the national government can do what it’s been doing for the last several decades. Hopefully at some point in time they will figure it out. In the meantime, I wouldn’t add anything to their already dysfunctional plate. Not state and local law enforcement. Not health care. Not education or school choice. If those things change, they are best done at the state and local level.

Why are you so gutless you won’t tell us how Nazario and Castile should have acted to keep the cops from going out of control? You want to blame the victims. But the COPS are the problem.

A black Army Lieutenant in uniform had a gun pointed to his head. He said he was in fear of his life, and the cops said “You should be”. He was hosed down with pepper spray. The cops that did that were found not guilty of any wrongdoing.

So what did he do wrong?

Philando Castile was stopped, and asked if had a weapon. He said yes, I have a licensed gun. He was then shot dead. Cop was set free and told he did nothing wrong.

But hey, 90% of the people live, so that’s just fine, right?

[bradman]

When present and accounted for, i wouldn't call that gutless.

[gounion]

When present and accounted for, i wouldn't call that gutless.

Both Joe and Glenn have whitesplained that black people are killed by cops because they don’t bow down to them. They want to pretend it’s usually the black person’s fault if they are mistreated, they just wouldn’t de-escalate the situation. Notice that neither of them have any suggestions of how these two men should have acted?

[JoeMemphis]

Both Joe and Glenn have whitesplained that black people are killed by cops because they don’t bow down to them. They want to pretend it’s usually the black person’s fault if they are mistreated, they just wouldn’t de-escalate the situation. Notice that neither of them have any suggestions of how these two men should have acted?

Except that’s not what I said. Those are your words not mine. You explain them. That is not what I said and not my point of view.

You are incapable of having an honest conversation/exchange like we have had around you today. A conversation with you devolves into an endless back and forth with you misrepresenting other peoples point of view and them denying it. Pointless waste of time you are.

[Motor City]

In funeral for Tyre Nichols, a public expression of Black America’s grief

“Mothers around the world, when their babies are born, pray to God, when they hold that child, that that body and that life will be safe for the rest of his life,” Harris said. “When we look at this situation, this is a family that lost their son and their brother, through an act of violence, at the hands and the feet of people who have been charged with keeping them safe.”

“I’m tired of the tears,” Barber said. “When will America decide that death from bad public officials and public policy is no longer acceptable?”

[gounion]

Except that’s not what I said. Those are your words not mine. You explain them. That is not what I said and not my point of view.

You are incapable of having an honest conversation/exchange like we have had around you today. A conversation with you devolves into an endless back and forth with you misrepresenting other peoples point of view and them denying it. Pointless waste of time you are.

Oh, no, you complained that Zowie was being mean to you too.

And you're the one that said:

I didn’t say it was equal. I said it happens. Why? I dunno. Maybe white people don’t resist as often. Maybe they don’t fear law enforcement as much? I don’t know. Good questions.

But the point is that people who don’t resist don’t get beat up or killed. Police have a duty not to escalate more than necessary to achieve control/compliance. Do citizens also have a duty to follow lawful orders and commands of LE officers?

So, again Joe, what would you have Nazario and Castile do differently that they did? Because, since the cops in both situations were found not guilty of any wrongdoing, what should Nazario have done differently to avoid getting soaked in pepper spray and a gun pointed at his head? What should have Castile done to avoid getting murdered?

You are incapable of answering reasonable questions that directly contradict your worldview that anyone that gets beat up or murdered did so because they resisted.

[JoeMemphis]

Oh, no, you complained that Zowie was being mean to you too.

And you're the one that said:



So, again Joe, what would you have Nazario and Castile do differently that they did? Because, since the cops in both situations were found not guilty of any wrongdoing, what should Nazario have done differently to avoid getting soaked in pepper spray and a gun pointed at his head? What should have Castile done to avoid getting murdered?

You are incapable of answering reasonable questions that directly contradict your worldview that anyone that gets beat up or murdered did so because they resisted.

Not resisting and following lawful commands of law enforcement officers isn’t bowing down. So again, you misrepresented what I posted. Do you always start your day off with a lie?

[gounion]

Not resisting and following lawful commands of law enforcement officers isn’t bowing down. So again, you misrepresented what I posted. Do you always start your day off with a lie?

Again, you say it's the fault of the victim. So, what would you tell Lt. Lazario and Philando Castile to have done differently? Obviously they didn't follow the lawful orders, since the officers in both cases were found not guilty of any wrongdoing.

[JoeMemphis]

Again, you say it's the fault of the victim. So, what would you tell Lt. Lazario and Philando Castile to have done differently? Obviously they didn't follow the lawful orders, since the officers in both cases were found not guilty of any wrongdoing.

Again. That is not what I said. I can’t help the fact that you aren’t capable of understanding the language. That is on you.

Get back to me when you are capable of having an honest discussion.

[gounion]

Joe, Glenn says this:

I taught my kids and all my students to do this
1 turn on your inside light
2 keep your hands visible at all times
3 answer every question yes sir or no sir
4 if asked if you have been drinking answer I don't drink
5 always sir them to death never argue or ask them questions
6 if there are problems the time to deal with them is later not during a traffic stop

And you say this:

So what advice would you give to young men when they are stopped by law enforcement? Resist? Run?

How do you resolve these situations? It seems to me that a better strategy would be that instead of instilling fear of all law enforcement in young people, we should be educating them on how to act when they encounter law enforcement in such a way to prevent the encounter from spiraling out of control. I don’t disagree that law enforcement needs training on de escalation but as in every encounter, there are two parties. Don’t both of them have a responsibility to behave appropriately?

Both of you say not to do anything during an encounter but to deal with any police wrongdoing later. I'd say that is telling them to "bow down" isn't an unreasonable take on your views. To me, we are CITIZENS with Constitutional rights. Castile had a Constitutional right to have a gun. He was killed because he was exercising that right.

So, again, you both have been whitesplaining to blacks how to act when stopped by the police. How should Navario and Castile have acted differently. Obviously they were both at fault because in both cases the officers were found not guilty in a court of law.

[JoeMemphis]

Joe, Glenn says this:



And you say this:



Both of you say not to do anything during an encounter but to deal with any police wrongdoing later. I'd say that is telling them to "bow down" isn't an unreasonable take on your views. To me, we are CITIZENS with Constitutional rights. Castile had a Constitutional right to have a gun. He was killed because he was exercising that right.

So, again, you both have been whitesplaining to blacks how to act when stopped by the police. How should Navario and Castile have acted differently. Obviously they were both at fault because in both cases the officers were found not guilty in a court of law.

Again, complying with the lawful commands of LE isn’t bowing down. It is just compliance. I comply with lawful orders. I comply with laws. Even ones I don’t agree with. There is a time and place to air those grievances. That is not bowing down.

[gounion]

Again, complying with the lawful commands of LE isn’t bowing down. It is just compliance. I comply with lawful orders. I comply with laws. Even ones I don’t agree with. There is a time and place to air those grievances. That is not bowing down.

It certainly sounds like it to me, especially when those orders are combative or unreasonable.

Again, what did Lazaro and Castile do wrong? How would you have had them react? Why can’t you answer that?

[JoeMemphis]

It certainly sounds like it to me, especially when those orders are combative or unreasonable.

Again, what did Lazaro and Castile do wrong? How would you have had them react? Why can’t you answer that?

Well my advice would be not to resist or fight with police. That’s not going to make things better and will only make things worse.

[gounion]

Well my advice would be not to resist or fight with police. That’s not going to make things better and will only make things worse.

They did neither. Lt. Lazaro was doused in pepper spray and had a gun aimed at his head. Castile was murdered. I linked to the videos. What should they have done differently.

Let’s be clear: Cops in BOTH situations were cleared of all wrongdoing. So, tell us what they should have done differently.

[JoeMemphis]

They did neither. Lt. Lazaro was doused in pepper spray and had a gun aimed at his head. Castile was murdered. I linked to the videos. What should they have done differently.

Let’s be clear: Cops in BOTH situations were cleared of all wrongdoing. So, tell us what they should have done differently.

Well tell me what advice would you give? Fight? Run? In general fighting with the police is not a good strategy. But you have all the answers so tell us what advice YOU would give young men and women about dealing with law enforcement? This should be interesting.

[gounion]

Well tell me what advice would you give? Fight? Run? In general fighting with the police is not a good strategy. But you have all the answers so tell us what advice YOU would give young men and women about dealing with law enforcement? This should be interesting.

They didn’t fight with them. They were complying. YOU are the one that said “ But the point is that people who don’t resist don’t get beat up or killed.”

Not me. So what should they have done.

I mean, a man who’s a Lieutenant in uniform was treated like a common thug. He didn’t resist. He complied. He had a gun pointed at his head, he was doused in pepper spray and he was threatened with being killed. Another man immediately announced he did have a licensed firearm when asked, and was immediately shot and killed.

Yet you say “ But the point is that people who don’t resist don’t get beat up or killed.’

So tell me Joe what did these people do wrong?

[JoeMemphis]

They didn’t fight with them. They were complying. YOU are the one that said “ But the point is that people who don’t resist don’t get beat up or killed.”

Not me. So what should they have done.

I mean, a man who’s a Lieutenant in uniform was treated like a common thug. He didn’t resist. He complied. He had a gun pointed at his head, he was doused in pepper spray and he was threatened with being killed. Another man immediately announced he did have a licensed firearm when asked, and was immediately shot and killed.

Yet you say “ But the point is that people who don’t resist don’t get beat up or killed.’

So tell me Joe what did these people do wrong?

I’m still waiting on you to tell me what advice you would give people when dealing with law enforcement. I have repeatedly told you what I would tell them. You have said nothing. But you answer all questions right? You never run away? So let’s hear your advice.

[gounion]

I’m still waiting on you to tell me what advice you would give people when dealing with law enforcement. I have repeatedly told you what I would tell them. You have said nothing. But you answer all questions right? You never run away? So let’s hear your advice.

I say people stand on their rights. If a cop demands to search your vehicle without a warrant, say not. If a cop makes unreasonable demands, say no. We are fucking AMERICANS, not sheep. I will do what I’m required by law to do. If I’m walking down a street, and a cop stops me and demanding my ID, I will ask the reason why, because they do not have a right to demand my papers without cause. If I’m stopped in my car, I will demand the reason I was stopped.

If you can’t stand on your Constitutional rights, then we don’t have a free country.

But then, like you, I’m an affluent white man, so I’m always treated with dignity and respect. I’m never insulted.

And no, you have NOT said what they should do. You just say “ But the point is that people who don’t resist don’t get beat up or killed.”

So what did they do wrong to get beat up and killed? What would you have them do. I answered your question. Answer mine.

[JoeMemphis]

I say people stand on their rights. If a cop demands to search your vehicle without a warrant, say not. If a cop makes unreasonable demands, say no. We are fucking AMERICANS, not sheep. I will do what I’m required by law to do. If I’m walking down a street, and a cop stops me and demanding my ID, I will ask the reason why, because they do not have a right to demand my papers without cause. If I’m stopped in my car, I will demand the reason I was stopped.

If you can’t stand on your Constitutional rights, then we don’t have a free country.

But then, like you, I’m an affluent white man, so I’m always treated with dignity and respect. I’m never insulted.

And no, you have NOT said what they should do. You just say “ But the point is that people who don’t resist don’t get beat up or killed.”

So what did they do wrong to get beat up and killed? What would you have them do. I answered your question. Answer mine.

My advice was,is and will continue to be to comply with the lawful orders of law enforcement.

So if said LE officer asks you to step out of your vehicle and you think that is beyond his scope of authority, your advice is to refuse? Even if it leads to a physical confrontation? Is that your advice?

If you don’t like what you are asked, told, ordered to do by LE. Is you advice to advise the officer of your rights and then actively resist if need be? Is that your advice? If not, then tell us what your advice is? Because resisting and fighting with police in the field is not good advice.

[gounion]

My advice was,is and will continue to be to comply with the lawful orders of law enforcement.

So if said LE officer asks you to step out of your vehicle and you think that is beyond his scope of authority, your advice is to refuse? Even if it leads to a physical confrontation? Is that your advice?

If you don’t like what you are asked, told, ordered to do by LE. Is you advice to advise the officer of your rights and then actively resist if need be? Is that your advice? If not, then tell us what your advice is? Because resisting and fighting with police in the field is not good advice.

Again, I asked what Lt. Lazaro and Philando Castile should have done. After all, the officers were all found not guilty in both cases.

And you said “But the point is that people who don’t resist don’t get beat up or killed.”

So what should they have done differently? Please answer the question.

I will refuse unlawful orders. I will stand on my Constitutional Rights.

And you will not. You will be a sheep and do whatever your Civli Masters orders you to do.