Central Park Stolen From

[Glennfs]

African Americans

https://www.centralparknyc.org/articles/seneca-village

I saw this the other day and was very surprised to learn that around 1855 what is now known as central park was home to around 225 African Americans.

Why is it we have been constantly hearing in the media lately about Tulsa but, they never bring up central Park.

Stories like this is why we can never have reparations. Regardless of your opinion on the subject at the end of the day we simply can't afford it.

I read where California which was never a slave state is recommending $360,000 per person. I imagine in slave states that number would be significantly higher. Take the people related to those 255 families.

Can you imagine what the value of the land central park sits on is worth today. Sometimes there is just no way to correct mistakes of the past.

[gounion]

African Americans

https://www.centralparknyc.org/articles/seneca-village

I saw this the other day and was very surprised to learn that around 1855 what is now known as central park was home to around 225 African Americans.

Why is it we have been constantly hearing in the media lately about Tulsa but, they never bring up central Park.

Stories like this is why we can never have reparations. Regardless of your opinion on the subject at the end of the day we simply can't afford it.

I read where California which was never a slave state is recommending $360,000 per person. I imagine in slave states that number would be significantly higher. Take the people related to those 255 families.

Can you imagine what the value of the land central park sits on is worth today. Sometimes there is just no way to correct mistakes of the past.

I'm sure if Republicans were ever elected into New York leadership, they'd privatize it and sell it off to their big donors, like they want to do with our National Parks.

[Glennfs]

I'm sure if Republicans were ever elected into New York leadership, they'd privatize it and sell it off to their big donors, like they want to do with our National Parks.

When Number6 sees this he is going to say you are trolling again.

Actually it is a very relevant topic on two fronts.
First how many of us knew the origins of Central Park.
Second no matter a person's belief on the subject. We simply do not have the revenue to pay reparations without bankrupting our country.
I read that Central Park is worth in the neighborhood of 35 billion. A number which seems low to me.
California has determined that $360 000 is what is owed to African Americans in that state.
The numbers are simply to high and it is just one of those things which cannot be corrected.

[gounion]

When Number6 sees this he is going to say you are trolling again.

Actually it is a very relevant topic on two fronts.
First how many of us knew the origins of Central Park.
Second no matter a person's belief on the subject. We simply do not have the revenue to pay reparations without bankrupting our country.
I read that Central Park is worth in the neighborhood of 35 billion. A number which seems low to me.
California has determined that $360 000 is what is owed to African Americans in that state.
The numbers are simply to high and it is just one of those things which cannot be corrected.

You can't give out cash. Just won't work. But we should do more in making better education available. Something a lot of those corporations that made lots of money from slaves could be doing.

But then, you're hoping that the Supreme Court will end affirmative action so that rich white kids no longer have to sit next to black kids in Harvard and Yale.

[Glennfs]

You can't give out cash. Just won't work. But we should do more in making better education available. Something a lot of those corporations that made lots of money from slaves could be doing.

But then, you're hoping that the Supreme Court will end affirmative action so that rich white kids no longer have to sit next to black kids in Harvard and Yale.

In most communities like York SC every student has the exact same educational opportunity.
Also, if you are talking about college not every student is cut out for college. You and I are great examples of that.

As for Ivy League type schools once again you are wrong. Unless a person went to a college prep high-school most of which are private. They have very little chance of passing at an Ivy League type school.

As for public schools I doubt many if any qualified minority students get turned down.

Maybe not at their first choice but if you have the grades and qualifications you will get accepted to college.

Personally I would like to see community colleges and technical colleges expanded. While still remaining affordable.

[gounion]

In most communities like York SC every student has the exact same educational opportunity.
Also, if you are talking about college not every student is cut out for college. You and I are great examples of that.

As for Ivy League type schools once again you are wrong. Unless a person went to a college prep high-school most of which are private. They have very little chance of passing at an Ivy League type school.

As for public schools I doubt many if any qualified minority students get turned down.

Maybe not at their first choice but if you have the grades and qualifications you will get accepted to college.

Personally I would like to see community colleges and technical colleges expanded. While still remaining affordable.

No, Glenn, they don't. But you don't know and you don't care.

And you'll be cheering when Harvard and Yale go back to not letting any black people sully the school for the rich white legacy kids that get in. You want those schools to only let in privileged rich white kids whose parents have connections.

[Glennfs]

No, Glenn, they don't. But you don't know and you don't care.

And you'll be cheering when Harvard and Yale go back to not letting any black people sully the school for the rich white legacy kids that get in. You want those schools to only let in privileged rich white kids whose parents have connections.

You have no clue or idea about the curriculum at Harvard and Yale. If you take a kid from a run of the mill public school and place them at an Ivy League level college they will fail.
My oldest daughter has two degrees plus an associates degree and is a PhD. Had she gone from high school to Ivy League she would not have passed.

[gounion]

You have no clue or idea about the curriculum at Harvard and Yale. If you take a kid from a run of the mill public school and place them at an Ivy League level college they will fail.
My oldest daughter has two degrees plus an associates degree and is a PhD. Had she gone from high school to Ivy League she would not have passed.

Neither do you Glenn.

You would have kept Obama out of Harvard too.

If you had read Michelle Obama's book - which of course you won't - you'd know that her high school counselor told her she should lower her expectations, that she could never excel in an Ivy-League school. Her Principal supported her, and she DID go to an Ivy League school and she excelled.

And she went to public schools.

Being rich and going to private schools doesn't make you smart, Glenn.

[Glennfs]

Neither do you Glenn.

You would have kept Obama out of Harvard too.

If you had read Michelle Obama's book - which of course you won't - you'd know that her high school counselor told her she should lower her expectations, that she could never excel in an Ivy-League school. Her Principal supported her, and she DID go to an Ivy League school and she excelled.

And she went to public schools.

Being rich and going to private schools doesn't make you smart, Glenn.

Mrs Obama went to a college prep type public school.
I wish ZoWie or ProfX would comment on thus discussion.
It isn't about being rich it is about being prepared.
Lebron James could have easily gone to and passed at an Ivy League school. Because he went to StVs. Had he gone to the public school in his district he would not have had a chance.
Also Mrs Obama's brother was already at Brown either playing or coaching basketball. So she knew exactly what to expect and how to prepare.
Your thoughts is the same as saying the left guard at Akron U could play at Ohio State.

[gounion]

Mrs Obama went to a college prep type public school.
I wish ZoWie or ProfX would comment on thus discussion.
It isn't about being rich it is about being prepared.
Lebron James could have easily gone to and passed at an Ivy League school. Because he went to StVs. Had he gone to the public school in his district he would not have had a chance.
Also Mrs Obama's brother was already at Brown either playing or coaching basketball. So she knew exactly what to expect and how to prepare.
Your thoughts is the same as saying the left guard at Akron U could play at Ohio State.

No, you’re saying that black kids shouldn’t even dream of going to Harvard. The rich kids are the ones with a seat at that table - even if they are George W. Bush. He didn’t even have the grades to go into the Texas School of Law, but his fucking C’s got him into Harvard AND Yale!

[Glennfs]

No, you’re saying that black kids shouldn’t even dream of going to Harvard. The rich kids are the ones with a seat at that table - even if they are George W. Bush. He didn’t even have the grades to go into the Texas School of Law, but his fucking C’s got him into Harvard AND Yale!

No I am saying you don't take children who do not have the educational foundation ti succeed and put them in a situation where they are destined for failure.

Again my daughter would have flunked out of Ivy League schools because she did not have the proper foundation to compete at that level.
She has 2 degrees one a PhD plus some associates degree.
You don't go from a regular public high school to a school on that level and pass.

Do you think the curriculum at Kansas or Kent State is the same as it is at Harvard

[gounion]

No I am saying you don't take children who do not have the educational foundation ti succeed and put them in a situation where they are destined for failure.

Again my daughter would have flunked out of Ivy League schools because she did not have the proper foundation to compete at that level.
She has 2 degrees one a PhD plus some associates degree.
You don't go from a regular public high school to a school on that level and pass.

Do you think the curriculum at Kansas or Kent State is the same as it is at Harvard

GW Bush sure passed. If I could do it, anyone can.

[Glennfs]

GW Bush sure passed. If I could do it, anyone can.

GW Bush had the foundation to pass. Had he went to Odessa High School with no help from his parents he would not have passed. Yhe same is true for Al Gore and I am sure many others.
Life isn't fair and if every year a handful of people who wouldn't get in without family connections there is nothing that can be done about those very few.
However once they get there they have to pass. If they don't or can't they wind up elsewhere.

[gounion]

GW Bush had the foundation to pass. Had he went to Odessa High School with no help from his parents he would not have passed. Yhe same is true for Al Gore and I am sure many others.
Life isn't fair and if every year a handful of people who wouldn't get in without family connections there is nothing that can be done about those very few.
However once they get there they have to pass. If they don't or can't they wind up elsewhere.

More than a handful. These schools have far more legacy students than Affirmative Action students.

And GW Bush was a C student. He didn’t pass. He NEVER would have gotten in if his daddy wasn’t a Congressman.

[Glennfs]

More than a handful. These schools have far more legacy students than Affirmative Action students.

And GW Bush was a C student. He didn’t pass. He NEVER would have gotten in if his daddy wasn’t a Congressman.

Same fir Al Gore but once thet got in they still had to do the work or leave.
Which is why Ted Kennedy was expelled from Harvard. If Ted Kennedy gets expelled then anyone not cutting it will get the same.

[gounion]

Same fir Al Gore but once thet got in they still had to do the work or leave.
Which is why Ted Kennedy was expelled from Harvard. If Ted Kennedy gets expelled then anyone not cutting it will get the same.

No, not true. Bush never would have gotten in if he had to be like everyone else. It’s so funny how you defend him getting in over a more qualified student.

I guess it only pisses you off if a BLACK student gets in over a more qualified WHITE student, doesn’t it?

[Glennfs]

No, not true. Bush never would have gotten in if he had to be like everyone else. It’s so funny how you defend him getting in over a more qualified student.

I guess it only pisses you off if a BLACK student gets in over a more qualified WHITE student, doesn’t it?

Nobody is questioning the fact that Al Gore and W got in on family connections.
But, once there they had to do the work and pass.
Both had the educational foundation that allowed that to happen.

[gounion]

Nobody is questioning the fact that Al Gore and W got in on family connections.
But, once there they had to do the work and pass.
Both had the educational foundation that allowed that to happen.

Not GW Bush. He’s an idiot, and has proved that over and over.

But to you, that’s what those schools are for - the rich white ruling class.

[Glennfs]

Not GW Bush. He’s an idiot, and has proved that over and over.

But to you, that’s what those schools are for - the rich white ruling class.

GW got better grades and had more of an advanced degree than Al Gore.
Nobody had more clout than Joe Kennedy. If he couldn't keep Ted in school then anyone not cutting it would be gone

So answer me this. Do you believe the curriculum at Kansas and Kent State is on the same level of difficulty as Harvard and Yale.

[gounion]

GW got better grades and had more of an advanced degree than Al Gore.
Nobody had more clout than Joe Kennedy. If he couldn't keep Ted in school then anyone not cutting it would be gone

So answer me this. Do you believe the curriculum at Kansas and Kent State is on the same level of difficulty as Harvard and Yale.

You think these schools are too hard for black kids.

[Glennfs]

You think these schools are too hard for black kids.

No that us just you losing an argument so you pull out the racist card.
I think those schools are too hard for any student who didn't have the proper educational foundation in their high school years.

So do you believe that Kansas and Kent State have the same curriculum as Harvard and Yale

[gounion]

No that us just you losing an argument so you pull out the racist card.
I think those schools are too hard for any student who didn't have the proper educational foundation in their high school years.

So do you believe that Kansas and Kent State have the same curriculum as Harvard and Yale

You believe blacks don't belong at Harvard and Yale.

Every affirmative action black student is qualified to go to these schools. Unlike GW Bush who didn't have the qualifications to go to Texas School of Law.

[Glennfs]

You believe blacks don't belong at Harvard and Yale.

Every affirmative action black student is qualified to go to these schools. Unlike GW Bush who didn't have the qualifications to go to Texas School of Law.

As opposing to answering the question you cry racist just like a gutless worm.

[gounion]

As opposing to answering the question you cry racist just like a gutless worm.

That’s because your question isn’t intelligent. Of course Harvard is harder. Doesn’t mean that black people can’t hack it. Every black person that makes it in via affirmative action is qualified to handle Harvard. Can’t say as much for the legacy kids.

[ZoWie]

Don't know how I missed this silly thread title the first time.

Central Park is in Manhattan. The folk tale is that Manhattan was purchased from the Native Americans for $24, which would be a steal even in 1600s money. It's just that, a folk tale. The Dutch already had a fort on Manhattan when this supposed deal went down. The goods exchanged were very likely for the right to hunt and fish on the island for the rest of the season, since most Native American tribes/bands/nations had no concept of real estate and/or land ownership granting full and perpetual control. Those were European concepts. Manhattan wasn't theirs to sell. The 24 dollar figure is one erroneous estimate of the value of the goods traded, and an implausibly low one even for the 1600s.

All the stories agree that the Native Americans were quite surprised to learn that they were not allowed to trespass on whatever parts of the island the Dutch chose to exercise their European statutory right. They didn't know they'd bartered that away. It wasn't in their culture.

Now, Central Park. Like a lot of urban features, it was indeed taken from a largely African American community, but by eminent domain. And it wasn't the whole park, it was one small settlement. You can't interpret history in terms of current conditions.

This sort of thing was common in the US right up until the 1980s. Eminent domain requires compensation for the lost property. African American neighborhoods usually had lower property values, and cost the city less. You can find a story like this in just about every American city. For example, nearly all of the LA freeways built in the 1950s and 60s took out neighborhoods of color. Dodger Stadium is on land taken in the 1930s for a housing project, and the tiny number of people displaced 20 years later to build the ball park were squatters. They had never built the planned project after clearing the land, because prominent Republicans argued that it was socialism.

Point is, though, that the seizure in both cases was was completely legal. Likely influenced in one way or another by racism, but legal.

Central Park is one of the things that makes Manhattan inhabitable. It's a treasure. While one can quibble about unequal use of eminent domain, one can't disagree on its being a huge improvement on what otherwise would have been taken anyway by one legal dodge or another, and turned into just more tenements and pollution.