Elon Musk Income Taxes

[Glennfs]

What is his total tax bill? How much did he make, how much tax did he pay? What were his deductions?

We don’t really know anything about his tax bill. It’s all conjecture.

Ok taxable income not capital gains.

[gounion]

Ok taxable income not capital gains.

So yep, GreenGrass is full of shit that he's paying 50%, since the top rate on capital gains is 20%.

[gounion]

These programs are entitlement programs. They are part of the social safety net. So perhaps instead of pizza we should think of them as similar to insurance as has been suggested. The premiums are paid by all the insured and are not based on their income. So if we are going to expand these programs everybody needs to shoulder a portion of the increased costs. Contrary to what is being sold as having a zero cost, there are real costs to these proposals. It’s quite easy to vote for an increase in a benefit when you are falsely told it will cost you nothing.

If we are going to create entitlement programs at least we ought to have the guts to increase payroll taxes to pay for them. That’s what payroll taxes are for. They are paid by everyone with earned income and they are shared with businesses.

Here's what's funny. This is a thread about Elon Musk's capital gains. So, Joe, here, decides to go off about Social Security and Medicare, as if it's relevant to the topic.

Hey Joe, you're an accountant. Do you pay the Social Security FICA on capital gains?

[ProfX]

We have a nicely progressive system.

It has been growing less progressive over the last few decades.

I understand even our President has noted something to that effect. I agree with him.

[JoeMemphis]

Here's what's funny. This is a thread about Elon Musk's capital gains. So, Joe, here, decides to go off about Social Security and Medicare, as if it's relevant to the topic.

Hey Joe, you're an accountant. Do you pay the Social Security FICA on capital gains?

Payroll taxes are taxes on earned INCOME. The OP is titled Elon Musk INCOME Taxes. SSI and Medicare are INCOME taxes that are paid by folks who have earned INCOME. I’m assuming that Musk has earned INCOME and therefore SSI and Medicare make up a portion of his total tax liability. Increasing payroll taxes to fund entitlement programs spreads the cost across the tax base based on the potential consumption of those resources and benefits by an individual. It mimics insurance in that regard. It is paid by both business and individuals and does away with the myth that these programs cost nothing. No gimmicks. No word games.

[gounion]

Payroll taxes are taxes on earned INCOME. The OP is titled Elon Musk INCOME Taxes. SSI and Medicare are INCOME taxes that are paid by folks who have earned INCOME. I’m assuming that Musk has earned INCOME and therefore SSI and Medicare make up a portion of his total tax liability. Increasing payroll taxes to fund entitlement programs spreads the cost across the tax base based on the potential consumption of those resources and benefits by an individual. It mimics insurance in that regard. It is paid by both business and individuals and does away with the myth that these programs cost nothing. No gimmicks. No word games.

No, YOU'RE the one playing word games. Pretend you're his accountant. Did Musk pay one dime of that income of selling his stock to Social Security? Yes or no. Remember that he already makes income as the CEO.

[JoeMemphis]

No, YOU'RE the one playing word games. Pretend you're his accountant. Did Musk pay one dime of that income of selling his stock to Social Security? Yes or no. Remember that he already makes income as the CEO.

Capital Gains is not earned income. Therefore not subject to FICA and Medicare taxes. I’m sure there are several components to Musk’s total tax liability. However unless you have access to his return, one can only speculate re his actual liability or the components thereof.

My comments were meant to be general comments related to the analogy Number6 presented regarding the progressive tax system. I don’t know and don’t really care to discuss or speculate about Musk’s tax liability. You can if you want.

[gounion]

Capital Gains is not earned income. Therefore not subject to FICA and Medicare taxes. I’m sure there are several components to Musk’s total tax liability. However unless you have access to his return, one can only speculate re his actual liability or the components thereof.

My comments were meant to be general comments related to the analogy Number6 presented regarding the progressive tax system. I don’t know and don’t really care to discuss or speculate about Musk’s tax liability. You can if you want.

You wanted to change the subject. Throw out a red herring.

So, the fact is, Musk doesn't pay FICA on his capital gains. Thank you for the admission. So much for "equally shouldering the burden". I bet if people paid FICA on ALL their income, it might be on stronger ground, doncha think? But no, for you it's about increasing the burden on the poor and working class, NOT the rich.

[Bludogdem]

” The Big Winner From Elon Musk’s Stock Options Pay Package? The Government, of Course”

So far, as part of exercising stock options, Musk has bought about 6.4 million shares of Tesla common stock for $6.24. He has sold 2.8 million of those shares, or about 44%, to cover taxes on the gains.

This average selling price, on the 2.8 million shares, is abut $1,073. His gain on sale is about $1,067 per share.

The 44% might not be all he owes. Management stock options are taxed as regular income. Depending on the state where Musk’s taxes are paid, and including taxes for Medicare, Musk could end up owing more than 50% of his gains.

Note the Management stock options are taxed as regular income.

https://www.barrons.com/articles/tesla- ... 1637156908

Regular Income not Capital Gains.

[gounion]

” The Big Winner From Elon Musk’s Stock Options Pay Package? The Government, of Course”

So far, as part of exercising stock options, Musk has bought about 6.4 million shares of Tesla common stock for $6.24. He has sold 2.8 million of those shares, or about 44%, to cover taxes on the gains.

This average selling price, on the 2.8 million shares, is abut $1,073. His gain on sale is about $1,067 per share.

The 44% might not be all he owes. Management stock options are taxed as regular income. Depending on the state where Musk’s taxes are paid, and including taxes for Medicare, Musk could end up owing more than 50% of his gains.

Note the Management stock options are taxed as regular income.

https://www.barrons.com/articles/tesla- ... 1637156908

Regular Income not Capital Gains.

Let's see the returns. BTW, I'm not subscribed, so I don't see what you have posted.

So, let's get this straight. The average selling price is $1,073. He paid $6.25 a share.

So it SHOULD be taxed as regular income. It's not like it's a gamble, as in buying regular stock, now, is it?

So you want us to feel sorry for him. I won't. And thanks for the admission, that Joe wouldn't make, that he won't pay a dime of the money into Social Security, so it's all about burdening the poor, and not the rich, for Joe.

Not surprised.

But we don't know what he is REALLY paying. What other shelters he has for that money.

[Bludogdem]

He pays social security up to income cap. The Medicare thing is unlimited.

[gounion]

He pays social security up to income cap. The Medicare thing is unlimited.

So the easiest way to ensure the future of Social Security is to deal with the cap, right? Instead of further burdening the poor?

[ZoWie]

Musk's tax liability is huge, but it's related to stock transactions and all on paper because it's the cheapest way he could do it. Money for us is a much more tangible asset than for the super-rich, where it's more about optimizing positions for minimum liability than actual exchange of currency.

This sort of shit is taking over, as witness the renaming of LA Staples Center to Crypto.com Arena. Much is being made about how suddenly "wealthy" crypto companies have decided to take over sports naming rights. It's in the process of eating Formula 1 too. Note the photos from old races, when the cars had the names of beer, whisky, and cigarette companies all over them. Now, they have the names of tech and crypto ventures that one has to look up out of curiosity. It's advertising, but they're still hawking stuff that may or may not be good for us.

We have ample evidence of where the money is right now, and we all know from history what happens in this kind of speculative bubble where the process replaces the product as the income source. It's never ended well yet.

[Bludogdem]

Musk's tax liability is huge, but it's related to stock transactions and all on paper because it's the cheapest way he could do it. Money for us is a much more tangible asset than for the super-rich, where it's more about optimizing positions for minimum liability than actual exchange of currency.

This sort of shit is taking over, as witness the renaming of LA Staples Center to Crypto.com Arena. Much is being made about how suddenly "wealthy" crypto companies have decided to take over sports naming rights. It's in the process of eating Formula 1 too. Note the photos from old races, when the cars had the names of beer, whisky, and cigarette companies all over them. Now, they have the names of tech and crypto ventures that one has to look up out of curiosity. It's advertising, but they're still hawking stuff that may or may not be good for us.

We have ample evidence of where the money is right now, and we all know from history what happens in this kind of speculative bubble where the process replaces the product as the income source. It's never ended well yet.

Once he exercises the option it’s regular income and subject to withholding taxes. He’ll be sending quarterly funds to the irs.

[ZoWie]

Once he exercises the option, which he will, it will be income, but not in the way people like us understand it. He's paying something a bit short of a fair share, because of where the income comes from. He's taking advantage of a system created by accountants, but the uninformed public blames the government for the seeming inequality of tax burden.

The inequality is real, but it's much more technical than just "rich people don't pay taxes." It's closer to "the system is rigged in favor of rich people who can afford high powered accounting firms and investment consultants."

[gounion]

How about that. The rich do pay taxes. And in the 50% range.

So you are saying the rich pay 50% of their income in taxes.

You know that isn't true. Many years Donald Trump paid no income taxes at all.

Your argument is 100% false. Just more conservative cherry-picking bullshit. We have no idea how much of Musk's income is taxed and at what rate.

[JoeMemphis]

You wanted to change the subject. Throw out a red herring.

So, the fact is, Musk doesn't pay FICA on his capital gains. Thank you for the admission. So much for "equally shouldering the burden". I bet if people paid FICA on ALL their income, it might be on stronger ground, doncha think? But no, for you it's about increasing the burden on the poor and working class, NOT the rich.

People can go back and read the thread and make up their own minds. But the analogy was about tying the tax burden to the consumption of services. Well current legislation under consideration would expand entitlement programs/social safety net programs/social insurance. Those services aren’t tied to income so the tax burden should be borne more equally. Payroll taxes have historically been targeted to pay for entitlement programs. So if we are planning to increase entitlement programs, we should fund them by increasing the payroll taxes paid by all individual wage earners and by business. If these programs are to remain viable, that is what will inevitably happen anyway. Let’s at least be honest about it when selling it to the public.

[gounion]

People can go back and read the thread and make up their own minds. But the analogy was about tying the tax burden to the consumption of services. Well current legislation under consideration would expand entitlement programs/social safety net programs/social insurance. Those services aren’t tied to income so the tax burden should be borne more equally. Payroll taxes have historically been targeted to pay for entitlement programs. So if we are planning to increase entitlement programs, we should fund them by increasing the payroll taxes paid by all individual wage earners and by business. If these programs are to remain viable, that is what will inevitably happen anyway. Let’s at least be honest about it when selling it to the public.

What’s REALLY being sold to the public is that the rich are overburdened by taxes.

[Bludogdem]

Once he exercises the option, which he will, it will be income, but not in the way people like us understand it. He's paying something a bit short of a fair share, because of where the income comes from. He's taking advantage of a system created by accountants, but the uninformed public blames the government for the seeming inequality of tax burden.

The inequality is real, but it's much more technical than just "rich people don't pay taxes." It's closer to "the system is rigged in favor of rich people who can afford high powered accounting firms and investment consultants."

A guy who has a history of not selling his stock begins exercising options and then very quickly begins selling 40%ish of those options is selling to pay quarterly taxes.

Given the 40% range it appears there will be a battle with California. California will claim the income occurred based on the 2012 option grant. Musk will say the income occurred at exercise while living in Texas.

[Bludogdem]

So you are saying the rich pay 50% of their income in taxes.

You know that isn't true. Many years Donald Trump paid no income taxes at all.

Your argument is 100% false. Just more conservative cherry-picking bullshit. We have no idea how much of Musk's income is taxed and at what rate.

No, I said Elon Musk. A rich guy. He may only pay 41-42% if he can keep California out of the picture.

Awhile back there was a kerfuffle in some publication over rich not paying taxes. Musk was probably one of those identified. Bezos was identified as having paid 23-24% on $4,000,000,000. So no but some might. Depending on the circumstances.

[gounion]

No, I said Elon Musk. A rich guy. He may only pay 41-42% if he can keep California out of the picture.

Awhile back there was a kerfuffle in some publication over rich not paying taxes. Musk was probably one of those identified. Bezos was identified as having paid 23-24% on $4,000,000,000. So no but some might. Depending on the circumstances.

No, THIS is what you said:

How about that. The rich do pay taxes. And in the 50% range.

THE RICH. NOT Elon Musk. You tried to insinuate that it's all a lie, that the rich DO pay HALF THEIR INCOME IN TAXES.

Now, you're welcome to piss backwards. But you're not welcome to pretend you didn't write that.

[gounion]

People can go back and read the thread and make up their own minds. But the analogy was about tying the tax burden to the consumption of services. Well current legislation under consideration would expand entitlement programs/social safety net programs/social insurance. Those services aren’t tied to income so the tax burden should be borne more equally. Payroll taxes have historically been targeted to pay for entitlement programs. So if we are planning to increase entitlement programs, we should fund them by increasing the payroll taxes paid by all individual wage earners and by business. If these programs are to remain viable, that is what will inevitably happen anyway. Let’s at least be honest about it when selling it to the public.

"Make the poor pay for them. Let's NOT burden the rich with doing their part. The poor can obviously pay much more of their income in taxes."

Got it.

[Motor City]

"Make the poor pay for them. Let's NOT burden the rich with doing their part. The poor can obviously pay much more of their income in taxes."

Got it.

It doesn't seem right if the extremely wealthy are excused from paying taxes on hundreds of billions of dollars while the vulnerable are punished ruthlessly for inability to pay. The difference so stark.

[Bludogdem]

No, THIS is what you said:

THE RICH. NOT Elon Musk. You tried to insinuate that it's all a lie, that the rich DO pay HALF THEIR INCOME IN TAXES.

Now, you're welcome to piss backwards. But you're not welcome to pretend you didn't write that.

Context, pay attention to the context.

Elon Musk Income Taxes
How about that. The rich do pay taxes. And in the 50% range.

Note the title creates context. It’s about Elon Musk, specifically . He’s rich. He’s selling stock to pay taxes.

The title isn’t the rich pay income taxes.

[gounion]

Context, pay attention to the context.

Elon Musk Income Taxes
How about that. The rich do pay taxes. And in the 50% range.

Note the title creates context. It’s about Elon Musk, specifically . He’s rich. He’s selling stock to pay taxes.

The title isn’t the rich pay income taxes.

Again, it's YOU trying to pretend the rich are overburdened with taxes, while pretending you aren't. And no one is buying it.