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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 6:35 pm 
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NFL’s Proposed National Anthem Rules: Penalties for Kneeling Being Considered

ATLANTA — On Tuesday, NFL owners put three hours aside for a privileged session to speak—amongst themselves and family members—about the most sensitive of topics.

One was how the league will handle players kneeling during the national anthem going forward. An idea being floated in the room goes like this: It would be up to the home team on whether both teams come out of the locker room for the anthem, and, should teams come out, 15-yard penalties could be assessed for kneeling.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/nf ... ar-AAxENMS


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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 1:48 am 
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NFL’s Proposed National Anthem Rules: Penalties for Kneeling Being Considered

ATLANTA — On Tuesday, NFL owners put three hours aside for a privileged session to speak—amongst themselves and family members—about the most sensitive of topics.

One was how the league will handle players kneeling during the national anthem going forward. An idea being floated in the room goes like this: It would be up to the home team on whether both teams come out of the locker room for the anthem, and, should teams come out, 15-yard penalties could be assessed for kneeling.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/nf ... ar-AAxENMS

Wouldn't this be a Freedom of Speech issue for the players? They should have the right to stand, kneel, acknowledge or nor acknowledge the National Anthem.

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 2:24 am 
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Wouldn't this be a Freedom of Speech issue for the players? They should have the right to stand, kneel, acknowledge or nor acknowledge the National Anthem.


Yes but only Tim Tebow, tho.

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 1:37 pm 
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NFL's national anthem policy will punish teams if players don't stand on sidelines

NFL owners passed a resolution on Wednesday that allows players to remain in the locker room during the national anthem but those who are on the sidelines will be required to stand. Teams -- not players -- will be fined for any actions deemed disrespectful.

In a statement, commissioner Roger Goodell said, "all league and team personnel shall stand," and added, "It was unfortunate that on-field protests created a false perception among many that thousands of NFL players were unpatriotic. This is not and was never the case."

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfls ... sidelines/


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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 2:24 pm 
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I hope they start doing the Wakanda Salute.

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 2:36 pm 
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I hope they start doing the Wakanda Salute.

:rw)

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Did you see this movie? I am not that into the Marvel or superhero stuff but take the grand-kids all the time, this was a GOOD movie.

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 3:22 pm 
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:rw)

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Did you see this movie? I am not that into the Marvel or superhero stuff but take the grand-kids all the time, this was a GOOD movie.

Saw it. It was excellent.

Now, as for the NFL and kneeling...it is time, past time, to end the playing of the national anthem for pro sporting events. I don't give a shit whether the sport is darts or baseball or what there is nothing patriotic about a sporting event with the possible exception of the Olympics.

Yes, and that goes for Nascar because half the time those asshats are flying confederate battle flags as well.

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 3:41 pm 
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:rw)

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Did you see this movie? I am not that into the Marvel or superhero stuff but take the grand-kids all the time, this was a GOOD movie.


Heck yes! Saw it twice

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 3:43 pm 
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Saw it. It was excellent.

Now, as for the NFL and kneeling...it is time, past time, to end the playing of the national anthem for pro sporting events. I don't give a shit whether the sport is darts or baseball or what there is nothing patriotic about a sporting event with the possible exception of the Olympics.

Yes, and that goes for Nascar because half the time those asshats are flying confederate battle flags as well.


They're just ginning up the white resentment vote with this. The cons are hot with rage at anyone who disagrees with it.

The funny thing I keep reading from these people is that the NFL is only doing this to keep "politics" out of sports.

Umm..no it's not.

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 4:19 pm 
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Well, wow.

Jets chairman Christopher Johnson backs players’ right to protest - Newsday

Quote:
Despite the NFL’s approval of a revised policy that requires players on the field to stand during the national anthem, Jets chairman Christopher Johnson told Newsday on Wednesday that his players are free to take a knee or perform some other protest without fear of repercussion from the team.

League owners unanimously adopted a policy that allows players who don’t want to participate in the anthem to remain in the locker room. Players who do appear on the field for the anthem must stand; if they don’t, their respective club faces a league-issued fine and teams can levy additional fines.

“I do not like imposing any club-specific rules,” Johnson said. “If somebody [on the Jets] takes a knee, that fine will be borne by the organization, by me, not the players. I never want to put restrictions on the speech of our players. Do I prefer that they stand? Of course. But I understand if they felt the need to protest. There are some big, complicated issues that we’re all struggling with, and our players are on the front lines. I don’t want to come down on them like a ton of bricks, and I won’t. There will be no club fines or suspensions or any sort of repercussions. If the team gets fined, that’s just something I’ll have to bear.”

Johnson has been highly critical of the possibility that owners would require players to stand. During the owners meetings in Orlando in March, Johnson told reporters he didn’t feel a change in protocol was necessary. “I know there’s some discussion of keeping players off the field until after the anthem. I think that’s a particularly bad idea . . . I just think that trying to forcibly get the players to shut up is a fantastically bad idea.”

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 5:25 pm 
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Did you see this movie? I am not that into the Marvel or superhero stuff but take the grand-kids all the time, this was a GOOD movie.


If you didn't get enough of Wakanda in Black Panther, most of Infinity War is set in Wakanda. :mrgreen:

What happens to BP at the end of the film ... well, that's ... classified. :D

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 5:43 pm 
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Forcing people to show patriotism is not patriotic.

If the NFL is going to have this policy then those who support the player's right to kneel should take a knee during the National Anthem at their stadium seats.

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 6:48 pm 
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Yes but only Tim Tebow, tho.

This is to appease the Nazi in the WH.

you know who I mean, the same one who AS president accepts millions in bribes.

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 12:56 am 
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Wouldn't this be a Freedom of Speech issue for the players? They should have the right to stand, kneel, acknowledge or nor acknowledge the National Anthem.


Yes! And hot of the press legal precedent has been set as of today which would create a means of arguing such a case before a court.

Three hours ago when I first read your comment I thought No! It would not be a free speech issue.

But then I read this ruling which came down today which tracks in parallel with this issue. In almost every line of this 74 page ruling I can see how the application of law to the Twitter First Amendment issue applies to this issue. The whole time I was reading the ruling I kept seeing how this is parallel with that.

Here's the ruling: https://www.lawfareblog.com/document-tr ... strict-new

The key elements which I think would be needed for standing is a player(s) who wants to speak, and a fan(s) who wants to observe that speech. One would have to show that the anthem is government speech and that within the stadium there is a public forum for that government speech to be commented upon. All of that in light of todays ruling for Knights First Amendment Institute v. Trump seems quite straight forward.

There's one more essential element needed to make a case, this would be difficult, one would have successfully argue that Trump in publicly fussing at the owners of the NFL to penalize players who kneel caused the NFL owners to act. :|


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 10:20 am 
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Here's the news report which points to the evidence one would need to show that Trump in publicly fussing at the owners of the NFL to penalize players who kneel caused the NFL owners to act.

NFL owners are 'f-----g terrified' of Trump, report says

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/05 ... -says.html

“Our league is f-----g terrified of Trump. We're scared of him,” one unnamed source told Bleacher Report as reaction to the plan poured in.

Show the court what the New England Patriots owner Robert Kraft said. “The problem we have is, we have a president who will use that as fodder to do his mission that I don't feel is in the best interests of America,” Kraft reportedly said in the meeting. “It's divisive and it's horrible.”


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 12:21 pm 
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Yes! And hot of the press legal precedent has been set as of today which would create a means of arguing such a case before a court.

Three hours ago when I first read your comment I thought No! It would not be a free speech issue.

But then I read this ruling which came down today which tracks in parallel with this issue. In almost every line of this 74 page ruling I can see how the application of law to the Twitter First Amendment issue applies to this issue. The whole time I was reading the ruling I kept seeing how this is parallel with that.

Here's the ruling: https://www.lawfareblog.com/document-tr ... strict-new

The key elements which I think would be needed for standing is a player(s) who wants to speak, and a fan(s) who wants to observe that speech. One would have to show that the anthem is government speech and that within the stadium there is a public forum for that government speech to be commented upon. All of that in light of todays ruling for Knights First Amendment Institute v. Trump seems quite straight forward.

There's one more essential element needed to make a case, this would be difficult, one would have successfully argue that Trump in publicly fussing at the owners of the NFL to penalize players who kneel caused the NFL owners to act. :|


I thought not at first as well because State Board of Ed vs. Barnette is about government-forced patriotism. But President Backlash just stepped in it, today with this garbage

Trump says NFL players who kneel during national anthem 'maybe shouldn't be in the country' - NBC

I think it really is high time for that See You In Court thread...

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 1:35 pm 
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NFLPA executive director absolutely blasts new national anthem rule

When NFL owners decided to vote into league bylaws a new national anthem rule during their annual spring meeting on Wednesday, we knew that the NFLPA and executive director DeMaurice Smith would have an issue with this.

After all, the players and their union were not privy to discussions with league owners in deciding to change the rules.

https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles ... 0_26483684


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 2:11 pm 
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Yes! And hot of the press legal precedent has been set as of today which would create a means of arguing such a case before a court.

Three hours ago when I first read your comment I thought No! It would not be a free speech issue.

But then I read this ruling which came down today which tracks in parallel with this issue. In almost every line of this 74 page ruling I can see how the application of law to the Twitter First Amendment issue applies to this issue. The whole time I was reading the ruling I kept seeing how this is parallel with that.

Here's the ruling: https://www.lawfareblog.com/document-tr ... strict-new

The key elements which I think would be needed for standing is a player(s) who wants to speak, and a fan(s) who wants to observe that speech. One would have to show that the anthem is government speech and that within the stadium there is a public forum for that government speech to be commented upon. All of that in light of todays ruling for Knights First Amendment Institute v. Trump seems quite straight forward.

There's one more essential element needed to make a case, this would be difficult, one would have successfully argue that Trump in publicly fussing at the owners of the NFL to penalize players who kneel caused the NFL owners to act. :|

From the Cornell Law School citing U.S. law, 36 U.S. Code 301, on the National Anthem:
Quote:
(a)Designation.—
The composition consisting of the words and music known as the Star-Spangled Banner is the national anthem.

(b)Conduct During Playing.—During a rendition of the national anthem—

(1) when the flag is displayed—

(A) individuals in uniform should give the military salute at the first note of the anthem and maintain that position until the last note;

(B) members of the Armed Forces and veterans who are present but not in uniform may render the military salute in the manner provided for individuals in uniform; and

(C) all other persons present should face the flag and stand at attention with their right hand over the heart, and men not in uniform, if applicable, should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart; and

(2) when the flag is not displayed, all present should face toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag were displayed.
Cornell Law School

Note, the law says "should" and "may" indicating it is not mandatory but what a person is encouraged to do. If the law were to be enforced then "should" and "may" would be "shall" or "will" to indicate mandatory action.

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 5:07 pm 
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From the Cornell Law School citing U.S. law, 36 U.S. Code 301, on the National Anthem:

Note, the law says "should" and "may" indicating it is not mandatory but what a person is encouraged to do. If the law were to be enforced then "should" and "may" would be "shall" or "will" to indicate mandatory action.


There you go, you just showed a court that the national anthem is government speech.

All that is needed now to bring this to court are one or more players who want to express their speech through kneeling when the directive that they stand when the national anthem is played in the stadium. And find one or more persons who want to watch them kneel instead of stand.

I see a case coming together. :D


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