California Voters to Decide on Abortion

News and events of the day
Post Reply
User avatar
Number6
Posts: 3476
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 7:18 pm

California Voters to Decide on Abortion

Post by Number6 »

In response to the Supreme Court striking down Roe vs. Wade the California State Legislature passed a proposed Constitutional Amendment, with two-thirds of the legislature approving it, to go to the voters in the upcoming general election in November. It will require only a simply majority of the voters to approve it.
California voters will decide in November whether to amend the state constitution to protect abortion and contraception, a move that has taken on even greater urgency following Friday’s Supreme Court decision overturning Roe v. Wade.

The proposed amendment needed two-thirds approval from both houses to qualify for the ballot. It had been up against a Thursday deadline when the state Assembly gave it final approval — just days after the U.S. Supreme Court issued its ruling.

On Friday, Gov. Gavin Newsom signed into law Assembly Bill 1666 from Assemblymember Rebecca Bauer-Kahan (D-Orinda), which shields which shields abortion clinicians and patients from other states’ civil and financial penalties related to abortion. That law took effect immediately.

Assemblymember Cristina Garcia (D-Bell Gardens), one of the proposal’s co-authors, said California needs to ensure that anyone who needs abortion services can obtain them. “If the last 72 hours has taught us anything, it is that we can’t assume a right we’ve had for 50 years will be available for us in the future,” she said.
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/06/2 ... t-00042668
One thing I can guarantee you, come November I'll be voting YES on this amendment.
When you vote left, you vote right.
User avatar
carmenjonze
Posts: 9614
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2021 3:06 am

Re: California Voters to Decide on Abortion

Post by carmenjonze »

Number6 wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 1:09 am In response to the Supreme Court striking down Roe vs. Wade the California State Legislature passed a proposed Constitutional Amendment, with two-thirds of the legislature approving it, to go to the voters in the upcoming general election in November. It will require only a simply majority of the voters to approve it.



One thing I can guarantee you, come November I'll be voting YES on this amendment.
Good!
________________________________

The way to right wrongs is to
Shine the light of truth on them.

~ Ida B. Wells
________________________________
Glennfs
Posts: 10315
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:54 pm

Re: California Voters to Decide on Abortion

Post by Glennfs »

Number6 wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 1:09 am In response to the Supreme Court striking down Roe vs. Wade the California State Legislature passed a proposed Constitutional Amendment, with two-thirds of the legislature approving it, to go to the voters in the upcoming general election in November. It will require only a simply majority of the voters to approve it.



One thing I can guarantee you, come November I'll be voting YES on this amendment.
That is their right and I am sure it will pass overwhelmingly. However it is also the right of a state to ban abortion. At least until the federal government passes an abortion rights law
" I am a socialist " Bernie Sanders
gounion
Posts: 17255
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:59 pm

Re: California Voters to Decide on Abortion

Post by gounion »

Glennfs wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 3:14 pm That is their right and I am sure it will pass overwhelmingly. However it is also the right of a state to ban abortion. At least until the federal government passes an abortion rights law
Let's be clear: In 2024, you want the GOP to control the government. IF they do, they will ban abortion nationwide.

So much for state's rights. You know you guys don't believe in that anyway.
Glennfs
Posts: 10315
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:54 pm

Re: California Voters to Decide on Abortion

Post by Glennfs »

gounion wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 3:17 pm Let's be clear: In 2024, you want the GOP to control the government. IF they do, they will ban abortion nationwide.

So much for state's rights. You know you guys don't believe in that anyway.
They will need 60 votes to break the filibuster
" I am a socialist " Bernie Sanders
User avatar
ProfX
Posts: 4087
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2021 3:15 pm
Location: Earth

Re: California Voters to Decide on Abortion

Post by ProfX »

States get to decide, but states also have state constitutions and some of their citizens are now arguing their state constitutions protect rights of bodily autonomy and therefore reproductive rights.

They may try and keep their own citizens from obtaining RU-486, or traveling to other states to get an abortion, but I see those efforts as failing.

The problem as always will continue to fall hardest on the poor, as the Hyde Amendment is still in effect. They can get no assistance for abortions, this is why I think supporting abortion access funds will be key. Also, the military, many corps., and some other entities are saying they will help women who are employees travel to get abortions if they need to.

The final problem I see is there will be sleazy types opening coat-hanger underground "chop shops" in the states esp. with total bans and poor women who can't travel. Women will still die at the hands of these "operators" who will operate, speakeasy style, outside the law ... and medical regulation and ethics. Welcome to the future. :|

Ending Roe will not end abortion. Not even in the states with total bans. Just safe abortion for many women. :|
Last edited by ProfX on Tue Jun 28, 2022 4:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Don't believe every quote attributed to people on the Internet" -- Abraham Lincoln :D
gounion
Posts: 17255
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:59 pm

Re: California Voters to Decide on Abortion

Post by gounion »

Glennfs wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 3:36 pm They will need 60 votes to break the filibuster
I could see the GOP drop the filibuster to outlaw abortion nationwide. As a matter of fact, they couldn't get away with NOT doing so politically.
JoeMemphis

Re: California Voters to Decide on Abortion

Post by JoeMemphis »

Glennfs wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 3:36 pm They will need 60 votes to break the filibuster
I believe they only need 51 votes to break the filibuster. That’s what makes Sinema and Manchin so critical. If they had the two of them plus the VP they would have done away with the filibuster already.
User avatar
Number6
Posts: 3476
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 7:18 pm

Re: California Voters to Decide on Abortion

Post by Number6 »

Glennfs wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 3:36 pm They will need 60 votes to break the filibuster
Or the Democrats can change the rule and either end the filibuster or suspend it. I favor ending it now because if the republicans take control of the Senate next year it will be hard for them to re-implement it because it would give the Democrats the power to prevent republicans passing their radical legislation.
When you vote left, you vote right.
User avatar
Number6
Posts: 3476
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 7:18 pm

Re: California Voters to Decide on Abortion

Post by Number6 »

ProfX wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 4:33 pm States get to decide, but states also have state constitutions and some of their citizens are now arguing their state constitutions protect rights of bodily autonomy and therefore reproductive rights.
I don't know the process for amending each of the State's Constitution but the principle ways are by the state legislature, by the state legislature with voter approval, citizen initiatives, or a combination of the three.
They may try and keep their own citizens from obtaining RU-486, or traveling to other states to get an abortion, but I see those efforts as failing.
I think the problem with states doing these is it would possibly violate the Commerce Clause so the only way to prevent RU-486 pills to be banned is at the federal level. I think it would also apply to individuals' ability to freely travel within the 50 States.
The problem as always will continue to fall hardest on the poor, as the Hyde Amendment is still in effect. They can get no assistance for abortions, this is why I think supporting abortion access funds will be key. Also, the military, many corps., and some other entities are saying they will help women who are employees travel to get abortions if they need to.
The Hyde Amendment prohibits federal funds for abortion unless it is to save the life of the woman or the pregnancy is the result of rape or incest. Unfortunately, the poor in the states banning abortions will be the ones to suffer the most. The military is prohibited from using its funds for a abortion but the services are looking at ways to help their female members by allowing liberal leave policy for travel to obtain an abortion. I think they'll also give them higher priority seating on Military Airlift Command flights which is available to active and retired military members.
The final problem I see is there will be sleazy types opening coat-hanger underground "chop shops" in the states esp. with total bans and poor women who can't travel. Women will still die at the hands of these "operators" who will operate, speakeasy style, outside the law ... and medical regulation and ethics. Welcome to the future. :|
While the wealthy and those who can afford to will be able to leave the state and obtain an abortion in another state. Welcome to the Two Americas.
Ending Roe will not end abortion. Not even in the states with total bans. Just safe abortion for many women. :|
Just like the 18th Amendment (Prohibition) didn't do away with alcohol, it just made it go underground. Those who knew where to get it got it and the same will be true for abortion. Unfortunately, abortions in some states will become a risky medical procedure performed by unqualified people.
When you vote left, you vote right.
User avatar
Number6
Posts: 3476
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 7:18 pm

Re: California Voters to Decide on Abortion

Post by Number6 »

Both Joe Manchin and Susan Collins have indicated Kavanaugh and Gorsuch lied to them and they'll support a bill legalizing abortion nationwide. I'm think if the Democrats introduce a bill to make abortions legal throughout the United States and drop the filibuster in the Senate it will pass with 52 or more votes.
When you vote left, you vote right.
User avatar
Libertas
Posts: 6468
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 5:16 pm

Re: California Voters to Decide on Abortion

Post by Libertas »

Number6 wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 7:48 pm Both Joe Manchin and Susan Collins have indicated Kavanaugh and Gorsuch lied to them and they'll support a bill legalizing abortion nationwide. I'm think if the Democrats introduce a bill to make abortions legal throughout the United States and drop the filibuster in the Senate it will pass with 52 or more votes.
this would be HUGE
I sigh in your general direction.
User avatar
ProfX
Posts: 4087
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2021 3:15 pm
Location: Earth

Re: California Voters to Decide on Abortion

Post by ProfX »

Number6 wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 7:41 pm I don't know the process for amending each of the State's Constitution but the principle ways are by the state legislature, by the state legislature with voter approval, citizen initiatives, or a combination of the three.
Obviously, that would vary from state to state. So, again, since the overturn of Roe, I've been researching this a bit. Here's something interesting: at least 11 states have state protections for abortion. I mean in their state constitutions - not just legislatively.

https://reproductiverights.org/state-co ... on-rights/

CA obviously is one; some of the others might surprise you -- like mine, and also Kansas, Alaska, and Montana.
I think the problem with states doing these is it would possibly violate the Commerce Clause so the only way to prevent RU-486 pills to be banned is at the federal level. I think it would also apply to individuals' ability to freely travel within the 50 States.
So one thing I've been wondering about. If states like OK say you can sue anyone involved in an abortion, would that not mean - theoretically - you could sue an abortion clinic in another state, or a pharmacy in that state that sells and ships you RU-486?

Here's the interesting thing my brother pointed out. In theory, you could. But let's say you are suing a clinic/pharmacy in a pro-choice blue state. Whose courts would have jurisdiction over that case? ... that state's .... not your own.

There's still the issue that if you provide transport to a woman to that state, the person providing transportation could be sued. :|
Seriously: I guess find some friends who live in another state? :?

The next legal question. Most states are saying (once again, despite claiming that abortion is murder) they will only prosecute those who perform abortions, not the women having the procedure. Well, some have said they will (though I still don't know any with the chutzpah to charge the women with 1st degree murder) ... and again, weird gray areas come up here .... after all, you can be prosecuted for an unlawful act you commit in another state ... but then once again the jurisdiction issue comes up ...
Unfortunately, abortions in some states will become a risky medical procedure performed by unqualified people.
:|
Last edited by ProfX on Tue Jun 28, 2022 8:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Don't believe every quote attributed to people on the Internet" -- Abraham Lincoln :D
User avatar
Libertas
Posts: 6468
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 5:16 pm

Re: California Voters to Decide on Abortion

Post by Libertas »

What a MESS, brought on by the dumbest people alive. People who believe in invisible men in the sky.

In 1980 give or take most people were not anti abortion, the catholic extremists used it to create a religious right to gain power.

People were told they were against it, but before that they were not.
I sigh in your general direction.
User avatar
Number6
Posts: 3476
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 7:18 pm

Re: California Voters to Decide on Abortion

Post by Number6 »

ProfX wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 8:17 pm So one thing I've been wondering about. If states like OK say you can sue anyone involved in an abortion, would that not mean - theoretically - you could sue an abortion clinic in another state, or a pharmacy in that state that sells and ships you RU-486?

Here's the interesting thing my brother pointed out. In theory, you could. But let's say you are suing a clinic/pharmacy in a pro-choice blue state. Whose courts would have jurisdiction over that case? ... that state's .... not your own.
I remember from my college political science courses from back in the early 70s that if a person in one state wants to sue a person in another state then they have to get permission from the state the person is being sued lives in. If this is true, then I could see pro-abortion states automatically refusing to allow their citizens to be sue under another state's abortion laws.
There's still the issue that if you provide transport to a woman to that state, the person providing transportation could be sued. :|
Seriously: I guess find some friends who live in another state? :?
Prosecutors would have to prove intent on the person providing transportation that they knew the woman was going for an abortion. Intent is hard to prove and if the person providing transportation denies knowing and the woman confirms this then I doubt a judge would find anyone has standing to sue the transporter.
The next legal question. Most states are saying (once again, despite claiming that abortion is murder) they will only prosecute those who perform abortions, not the women having the procedure. Well, some have said they will (though I still don't know any with the chutzpah to charge the women with 1st degree murder) ... and again, weird gray areas come up here .... after all, you can be prosecuted for an unlawful act you commit in another state ... but then once again the jurisdiction issue comes up ...



:|
I'm not a lawyer and I don't play one on TV but undoubtedly there will be attempts to enforce state anti-abortion laws against the woman or anyone assisting them. I do know if I was being sued I want a great lawyer, like Horace Rumpole, to represent me to make a mockery of the law and to win the case.
When you vote left, you vote right.
Glennfs
Posts: 10315
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:54 pm

Re: California Voters to Decide on Abortion

Post by Glennfs »

Number6 wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 8:46 pm I remember from my college political science courses from back in the early 70s that if a person in one state wants to sue a person in another state then they have to get permission from the state the person is being sued lives in. If this is true, then I could see pro-abortion states automatically refusing to allow their citizens to be sue under another state's abortion laws.


Prosecutors would have to prove intent on the person providing transportation that they knew the woman was going for an abortion. Intent is hard to prove and if the person providing transportation denies knowing and the woman confirms this then I doubt a judge would find anyone has standing to sue the transporter.


I'm not a lawyer and I don't play one on TV but undoubtedly there will be attempts to enforce state anti-abortion laws against the woman or anyone assisting them. I do know if I was being sued I want a great lawyer, like Horace Rumpole, to represent me to make a mockery of the law and to win the case.
Take it the the Old Bailey. I love Rumpole
On a serious note I wonder what will happen if and when these laws overreach especially in the penalty phase.
We still have laws against cruel and unusual punishment.
" I am a socialist " Bernie Sanders
gounion
Posts: 17255
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:59 pm

Re: California Voters to Decide on Abortion

Post by gounion »

Glennfs wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:35 am Take it the the Old Bailey. I love Rumpole
On a serious note I wonder what will happen if and when these laws overreach especially in the penalty phase.
We still have laws against cruel and unusual punishment.
Laws that don't mean shit. Glenn, you are reaping what you sown, this is what you wanted when you cheered the last three Supreme Court nominees as fantastic choices. So don't pretend you didn't see this coming.
User avatar
carmenjonze
Posts: 9614
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2021 3:06 am

Re: California Voters to Decide on Abortion

Post by carmenjonze »

Glennfs wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 3:14 pm That is their right and I am sure it will pass overwhelmingly. However it is also the right of a state to ban abortion.
You guys have made states rights synonymous with white supremacism, and you did so for centuries.

Nothing about that has changed, since your anti-abort agenda is also based in whites-rule.
At least until the federal government passes an abortion rights law
"at least until the federal government passes an anti-slavery law"

"at least until the federal government passes an anti-lynching law"

"at least until the federal government passes anti-discrimination laws for LGBTQs"

"at least until the federal government passes voting rights for women"

Your people tried to overthrow a national election a year and a half ago, and you vigorously defend it.
________________________________

The way to right wrongs is to
Shine the light of truth on them.

~ Ida B. Wells
________________________________
User avatar
carmenjonze
Posts: 9614
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2021 3:06 am

Re: California Voters to Decide on Abortion

Post by carmenjonze »

Glennfs wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:35 am Take it the the Old Bailey. I love Rumpole
On a serious note I wonder what will happen if and when these laws overreach especially in the penalty phase.
We still have laws against cruel and unusual punishment.
Your anti-abort agenda is based in punishment for the sluts and whores who can't keep their legs closed, and the people who seduce men, leaving the poor, put-upon darlings no choice but to rape and commit incest.

Colonizer mentality.

Your entire white-supremacist, colonizer agenda relies on government overreach, just as it did during Jim Crow. That's what you guys have distorted states rights to be: Jim Crow/government overreach authoritarianism.

Who convinced you that whites-rule/males-rule is some kind of innate right?
________________________________

The way to right wrongs is to
Shine the light of truth on them.

~ Ida B. Wells
________________________________
User avatar
carmenjonze
Posts: 9614
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2021 3:06 am

Re: California Voters to Decide on Abortion

Post by carmenjonze »

Glennfs wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:35 am
How come you forced-childbirth WSs are trying to bring back fugitive slave laws?

Antiabortion lawmakers want to block patients from crossing state lines - WP
Some advocacy groups and their allies are crafting legislative language that could be adopted in Republican-led state capitals.

The Thomas More Society, a conservative legal organization, is drafting model legislation for state lawmakers that would allow private citizens to sue anyone who helps a resident of a state that has banned abortion from terminating a pregnancy outside of that state. The draft language will borrow from the novel legal strategy behind a Texas abortion ban enacted last year in which private citizens were empowered to enforce the law through civil litigation.
________________________________

The way to right wrongs is to
Shine the light of truth on them.

~ Ida B. Wells
________________________________
User avatar
Libertas
Posts: 6468
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 5:16 pm

Re: California Voters to Decide on Abortion

Post by Libertas »

carmenjonze wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 6:53 pm How come you forced-childbirth WSs are trying to bring back fugitive slave laws?

Antiabortion lawmakers want to block patients from crossing state lines - WP
Very bad days ahead, cons will force major unrest.
I sigh in your general direction.
Post Reply