Biden asks Congress to force rail agreement

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gounion
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Biden asks Congress to force rail agreement

Post by gounion »

https://apnews.com/article/business-con ... c6fffb230b
Biden said that as a “a proud pro-labor president” he was reluctant to override the views of people who voted against the agreement. “But in this case — where the economic impact of a shutdown would hurt millions of other working people and families — I believe Congress must use its powers to adopt this deal.”

Biden’s remarks and Pelosi’s statement came after a coalition of more than 400 business groups sent a letter to congressional leaders Monday urging them to step into the stalled talks because of fears about the devastating potential impact of a strike that could force many businesses to shut down if they can’t get the rail deliveries they need. Commuter railroads and Amtrak would also be affected in a strike because many of them use tracks owned by the freight railroads.

The business groups led by the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, National Association of Manufacturers and National Retail Federation said even a short-term strike would have a tremendous impact and the economic pain would start to be felt even before the Dec. 9 strike deadline.
Here's my take.

While I do back the workers, and believe they should get relief from the onerous company policies, the workers are holding a busted flush and have little to no leverage on this. Union negotiating committees for all the member unions accepted the Biden-brokered deal, and most workers accepted it. And the union negotiators hailed the deal. Of course, unions being democratic, in four unions the workers demanded more.

Plus, Biden has little to no leverage to demand more of the rail company. Having forced the companies into accepting demands they didn't want to concede, he can't go back to that well again.

The President and the Dems have little recourse but to force acceptance of the negotiated settlement.
Motor City
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Re: Biden asks Congress to force rail agreement

Post by Motor City »

I cant get over how reckless the rail companies behavior is in operating in such a way, that Biden is on the side of such reckless behavior says much as well. Implementing the sick leave changes there are really no downside to and could easily be done and benefit the companies as much as the workers.
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Glennfs
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Re: Biden asks Congress to force rail agreement

Post by Glennfs »

gounion wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 8:19 am https://apnews.com/article/business-con ... c6fffb230b



Here's my take.

While I do back the workers, and believe they should get relief from the onerous company policies, the workers are holding a busted flush and have little to no leverage on this. Union negotiating committees for all the member unions accepted the Biden-brokered deal, and most workers accepted it. And the union negotiators hailed the deal. Of course, unions being democratic, in four unions the workers demanded more.

Plus, Biden has little to no leverage to demand more of the rail company. Having forced the companies into accepting demands they didn't want to concede, he can't go back to that well again.

The President and the Dems have little recourse but to force acceptance of the negotiated settlement.
That is an excellent take plus as I recall when the settlement was announced it appeared the union got an amazing contract.
With all buy one or possibly two of the unions involved not approving it.
On top of that I believe close to 100pct of liberals and liberal groups were praising it and giving kudos to Biden for diverting a strike and getting an agreement.
I am pretty sure there was a thread here praising Biden.
Finally I am guessing there are things we aren't being told. Along the lines of they can stay home when ill bit have to burn a vacation or personal day if they want paid.
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gounion
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Re: Biden asks Congress to force rail agreement

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Glennfs wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 10:10 am That is an excellent take plus as I recall when the settlement was announced it appeared the union got an amazing contract.
With all buy one or possibly two of the unions involved not approving it.
On top of that I believe close to 100pct of liberals and liberal groups were praising it and giving kudos to Biden for diverting a strike and getting an agreement.
I am pretty sure there was a thread here praising Biden.
Finally I am guessing there are things we aren't being told. Along the lines of they can stay home when ill bit have to burn a vacation or personal day if they want paid.
Okay, let's deal in FACTS, okay? First, ALL the union negotiators approved and recommended the deal. And FOUR union's membership failed to ratify it.

And no, it wasn't 100%, you just made that up. But a general consensus was that it was a masterful job of Biden coming to the table to push BOTH sides to negotiate something both could live with. It was the job of the President to do so for the public good, and I'm STILL proud of what he did.

But Biden is a realist, first, the union negotiators agreed to, and recommended the deal to their membership. That leaves them with little to no leverage, and if there's a strike, they'll lose the PR war, with the unions being split on the deal, with it being accepted by a 2/3 margin. They'll be blamed for the pain to the general population over a strike.

So Biden is doing what is best for all three groups - the company, the union and the public. It's called having the courage to do the right thing.
Glennfs
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Re: Biden asks Congress to force rail agreement

Post by Glennfs »

https://raillaborfacts.org/news/bargain ... mmediately.

You would think they would be happy with $160,000 a year. ( includes benefits)
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gounion
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Re: Biden asks Congress to force rail agreement

Post by gounion »

Glennfs wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 12:49 pm https://raillaborfacts.org/news/bargain ... mmediately.

You would think they would be happy with $160,000 a year. ( includes benefits)
Ah, all YOU want to see is the company propaganda. Glenn, I've seen hundreds of those type of websites, that always pretends to tell the truth. But I guess they tell you what you want to hear.

After all, the company's side is all you want to hear, isn't it?
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Libertas
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Re: Biden asks Congress to force rail agreement

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If you want cons to support union, just have us i.e. the adults stop supporting them.
I sigh in your general direction.
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carmenjonze
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Re: Biden asks Congress to force rail agreement

Post by carmenjonze »

Glennfs wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 12:49 pm https://raillaborfacts.
:roll:

They represent management.

You are so easy to manipulate. But that's what happens when you don't value self-education, or any education.
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Re: Biden asks Congress to force rail agreement

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Libertas wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 2:42 pm If you want cons to support union, just have us i.e. the adults stop supporting them.
Cons admire any purveyor of exploitation and injustice. They're still mad business owners have to pay workers, at all. :problem:
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Motor City
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Re: Biden asks Congress to force rail agreement

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gounion wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 11:42 am Okay, let's deal in FACTS, okay? First, ALL the union negotiators approved and recommended the deal. And FOUR union's membership failed to ratify it.

And no, it wasn't 100%, you just made that up. But a general consensus was that it was a masterful job of Biden coming to the table to push BOTH sides to negotiate something both could live with. It was the job of the President to do so for the public good, and I'm STILL proud of what he did.

But Biden is a realist, first, the union negotiators agreed to, and recommended the deal to their membership. That leaves them with little to no leverage, and if there's a strike, they'll lose the PR war, with the unions being split on the deal, with it being accepted by a 2/3 margin. They'll be blamed for the pain to the general population over a strike.

So Biden is doing what is best for all three groups - the company, the union and the public. It's called having the courage to do the right thing.
Um no hes not, Sick days and proper staffing is what's best for all 3 groups. Best for the precious cargo, best for the hazardous cargo and best for peoples health and mental health and best for overall operations.

https://twitter.com/DannyDeVito/status/ ... 6226543616
No Joe, you’re supposed to help the railroad workers… you got it backwards. A handful of sick days c’mon! Workers of the world unite!
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gounion
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Re: Biden asks Congress to force rail agreement

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Motor City wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 11:14 pm Um no hes not, Sick days and proper staffing is what's best for all 3 groups. Best for the precious cargo, best for the hazardous cargo and best for peoples health and mental health and best for overall operations.

https://twitter.com/DannyDeVito/status/ ... 6226543616
I understand, but we're where we are right now. This is a deal that the union negotiators accepted and lauded at the time. No, it's not great, but it's a big step forward. Now they don't have any leverage, and neither does the President. He can't force the companies to change a thing. If there's a strike the public will turn on the unions and blame them. It will drive division among the workers. And, it will give the GOP a huge win when the economy is hurt and critical shortages occur. In today's world, you only win a strike like this if your workers are 100% behind the strike, and you have strong public support. This is not one of those times.
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carmenjonze
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Re: Biden asks Congress to force rail agreement

Post by carmenjonze »

One day off a year of sick leave is unacceptable.
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gounion
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Re: Biden asks Congress to force rail agreement

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carmenjonze wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 7:32 am One day off a year of sick leave is unacceptable.
I realize that, but there's not a realistic path forward at this time. This is a deal the negotiators ACCEPTED.
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carmenjonze
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Re: Biden asks Congress to force rail agreement

Post by carmenjonze »

gounion wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 7:37 am I realize that, but there's not a realistic path forward at this time. This is a deal the negotiators ACCEPTED.
There's not a realistic path forward because railroad bosses won't get up off of more than one sick day a year? I get that negotiators accepted this stipulation but the administration should never have put them in this situation in the first place. Or maybe they should have, but just stopped calling themselves a labor adminstration.
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gounion
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Re: Biden asks Congress to force rail agreement

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carmenjonze wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 7:44 am There's not a realistic path forward because railroad bosses won't get up off of more than one sick day a year? I get that negotiators accepted this stipulation but the administration should never have put them in this situation in the first place. Or maybe they should have, but just stopped calling themselves a labor adminstration.
Well, then vote Republican.

Because with a GOP administration, Trump would have let the company demand cuts to everything, then the GOP Congress and Senate would have forced it on them.
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Re: Biden asks Congress to force rail agreement

Post by carmenjonze »

Glennfs wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 10:10 am That is an excellent take plus as I recall when the settlement was announced it appeared the union got an amazing contract.
Amazing in that railroad boss didn't commit atrocities like Ludlow and Haymarket and Everett?

:problem:
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carmenjonze
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Re: Biden asks Congress to force rail agreement

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gounion wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 7:53 am Well, then vote Republican.
No, Biden administration do better.
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gounion
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Re: Biden asks Congress to force rail agreement

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carmenjonze wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 7:54 am No, Biden administration do better.
How do you do that at this point? I mean, in reality.
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Re: Biden asks Congress to force rail agreement

Post by carmenjonze »

gounion wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 7:56 am How do you do that at this point? I mean, in reality.
Well, I should ask you. Do you remember the wildcat UC grad student strike right before the pandemic?
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gounion
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Re: Biden asks Congress to force rail agreement

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carmenjonze wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 7:58 am Well, I should ask you. Do you remember the wildcat UC grad student strike right before the pandemic?
Look, I'm asking about THIS. At this time, with the unions divided, and the negotiators having lauded the agreement. And Biden doesn't have the power to force the company to do anything.

How does it go from here?
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carmenjonze
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Re: Biden asks Congress to force rail agreement

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gounion wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 8:01 am Look, I'm asking about THIS.
I understand, no need to get impatient.

I bring up the wildcat strike from 2019-2020 because the continuation of it is happening throughout the UC system right now as we speak. It's being noted as the biggest labor action in all of American academia.

How the University of California Strike Could Reshape Higher Education - Time

If you don't recall the wildcat strike, ok. It was somewhat obscure at the time. But that momentum did not slow down, it picked up, even in a pandemic.
At this time, with the unions divided, and the negotiators having lauded the agreement. And Biden doesn't have the power to force the company to do anything.

How does it go from here?
Well, one day a year sick leave is how it goes. You really okay with that?
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carmenjonze
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Re: Biden asks Congress to force rail agreement

Post by carmenjonze »

The Teamsters are honoring the current UC strike.

Teamsters stand in solidarity with UC Academic Workers!

What if Teamsters other major unions were to throw in with a wildcat railroad strike?
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gounion
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Re: Biden asks Congress to force rail agreement

Post by gounion »

carmenjonze wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 8:03 am I understand, no need to get impatient.

I bring up the wildcat strike from 2019-2020 because the continuation of it is happening throughout the UC system right now as we speak. It's being noted as the biggest labor action in all of American academia.

How the University of California Strike Could Reshape Higher Education - Time

If you don't recall the wildcat strike, ok. It was somewhat obscure at the time. But that momentum did not slow down, it picked up, even in a pandemic.
Yes, I know about it. But it is not analogous.
Well, one day a year sick leave is how it goes. You really okay with that?
The union negotiators were. Now they don't have any leverage at this time.

OF COURSE I would want to see them do better. Heck, I'm for Sen. Sander's bill to give seven days sick leave to all Railroad workers. But there isn't a realistic path forward at the table at this time.
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carmenjonze
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Re: Biden asks Congress to force rail agreement

Post by carmenjonze »

gounion wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 8:33 am Yes, I know about it. But it is not analogous.
Probably nothing is analogous because of special railroad labor agreements, and the pandemic.

But there is a parallel in the monopolistic and opportunistic elements of both the railroads and the UC system in California. Not mentioned in this tweet, this strike is of 48,000 people. Also, University of California employs over a quarter million faculty and staff in this state, i.e. not including the 48K grad students striking.
__________

LA Tenants Union
@LATenantsUnion

The UC is the largest landlord in California, controlling nearly 150,000 beds in university housing. UC also manages $5 billion dollars in real estate investments, including properties owned directly and rented out for profit in UC communities.

UC Student-Workers Union UAW 2865
@uaw2865
·
14h
When UC Labor Relations Director told @KQED that the cost of housing is outside UC's control, she was either mistaken or being deliberately misleading.

As the state's largest landlord, UC can do better. Read this analysis from a @UCBerkeley economist.

https://sfexaminer.com/our_sections/for ... d12d1.html

https://twitter.com/LATenantsUnion/stat ... 5328719874
The union negotiators were. Now they don't have any leverage at this time.
The leverage is with labor itself. Teamsters are already supporting UC grad students, which itself is UAW.

Glad UAW came around, js. Maybe the wildcat strike had something to do with it, maybe it didn't.

Either way, nobody in any sector should be compelled to accept one sick day a year.
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gounion
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Re: Biden asks Congress to force rail agreement

Post by gounion »

carmenjonze wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 8:40 am Probably nothing is analogous because of special railroad labor agreements, and the pandemic.

But there is a parallel in the monopolistic and opportunistic elements of both the railroads and the UC system in California. Not mentioned in this tweet, this strike is of 48,000 people. Also, University of California employs over a quarter million faculty and staff in this state, i.e. not including the 48K grad students striking.
__________

LA Tenants Union
@LATenantsUnion

The UC is the largest landlord in California, controlling nearly 150,000 beds in university housing. UC also manages $5 billion dollars in real estate investments, including properties owned directly and rented out for profit in UC communities.

UC Student-Workers Union UAW 2865
@uaw2865
·
14h
When UC Labor Relations Director told @KQED that the cost of housing is outside UC's control, she was either mistaken or being deliberately misleading.

As the state's largest landlord, UC can do better. Read this analysis from a @UCBerkeley economist.

https://sfexaminer.com/our_sections/for ... d12d1.html

https://twitter.com/LATenantsUnion/stat ... 5328719874



The leverage is with labor itself. Teamsters are already supporting UC grad students, which itself is UAW.

Glad UAW came around, js. Maybe the wildcat strike had something to do with it, maybe it didn't.

Either way, nobody in any sector should be compelled to accept one sick day a year.
Writing letters of support is easy.

Again, I agree, but exactly what is the path forward now? I've given my take on it, based on my experience in the business. I don't see the unions having any leverage now.
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