Storming The Capital 2: A Counter Storm is Coming

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ProfX
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Re: Storming The Capital 2: A Counter Storm is Coming

Post by ProfX »

sam lefthand wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 9:07 am We've talked a lot about populism over the years X. I agree with you. For just a brief moment it can seem like a good thing if it's focus in on a good thing, but it's something which even under the best circumstances doesn't age well. It always turns sour so quickly.

When it's blended with nationalism and patriotism it becomes a nightmare.
Economic and social inequality exist. There are so many privileges people have in this society based on social class. In particular, how they are treated by our judicial system. But also our labor market and our health care system. Motor and I may have our disagreements, but I often find him an enjoyable voice in the wilderness on reminding people about those things. Anybody saying we have an unfair system that favors our economic elites is telling the truth. So I'm not going to disagree with them. Much like race, ignoring social class, and the impacts of poverty, on our society, won't make the suffering it creates go away. So people who say talking about the real problems of social class is fomenting class warfare can go bite me. I prefer to throw a little Warren Buffet at them: "Yes, there is a class war in this country, but it's my class, the rich, who's waging it on the poor."

So, no, the left populists don't bother me that much. They are pointing to realities. What does, though, is when left populists in Britain point to an anti-Semitic mural in Britain that clearly seems to be implying all those economic elites are Jews, that I have a problem. Left populism can slip on the horseshoe over to right-leaning anti-Semitism and I've seen it in action. Even Marx knew the dangers there which is why he called anti-Semitism "the socialism of fools".

Right populists often claim that intellectuals like myself, especially Jewish intellectuals in media/Hollywood and academia, are part of a plot to corrupt our country's traditional values etc. etc. etc. That takes the straighter road to fascism. It worries me more. Right populism leads to aggressive anti intellectualism, and before you know it people are on the White House lawn telling you to avoid demon seed, alien DNA, and drink your HCQ. Eventually it morphs into QAnon, and suddenly starts saying Hollywood celebrities, which oddly often shockingly enough have Jewish names, are doing Satanic rituals on our kids, and drinking their adrenochrome.
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Re: Storming The Capital 2: A Counter Storm is Coming

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Great reporting here



https://youtu.be/ewKg8DkwcLc

CNN obtained exclusive video that shows Trump adviser Rudy Giuliani, attorney Sidney Powell and others being deposed about their election lies.
Rudy should lose every penny he has if justice is done. He should be in prison for insurrection of course also.

The most disgusting human beings on earth are never commented on here by the cons. They have no problem with them. This is why we can be CERTAIN they will stand by while their fascist friends shoot at us.
I sigh in your general direction.
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Re: Storming The Capital 2: A Counter Storm is Coming

Post by Motor City »

ProfX wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 6:12 am There have been two kinds of populism in this country. And others.

Progressive or left populism generally focuses on economic inequality and fairness. Sanders and AOC are left populists. But it's an old tradition,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Populism# ... _left-wing
Sanders echoes most of the great Progressive populists of the U.S. in focusing on predatory economic elites.

Reactionary or right populism usually attacks elites in the media, academia, and politics for supposedly corrupting our way of life, promoting homosexuality, undermining "traditional values" (whatever those are supposed to be). It inevitably and almost always contains elements of anti-intellectualism, anti-Semitism, and attacks on "elite" experts and expertise who supposedly are using them to manipulate and deceive the populace.

I know which one bothers me more.

That said, there is also a weird history of Left populists sliding over into fascism. The two best examples I can give are Peronism in Argentina, and Huey Long here in the U.S. Or then you have them teaming up like we see with RFK Jr. attending anti-mandatory vax rallies in Germany organized by neo-Nazis..... sigh. Right wing populists often start out attacking Wall Street, then you notice they start pointing out all the Jewish names on the banks, and sliding into how the Rothschilds have started all the wars, and I start getting nauseous. Father Coughlin did it in the 1930s.

My final problem with populism of any variety, and I know this position will be unpopular with some :D but I hold it, is just because an idea or viewpoint is popular does not make it correct. Evidence and proof does. In the end, argument ad populum is a fallacy. Now, that said, we do live in a democracy. If 75% of the people feel something should be done, well that's the way the vote goes. I'm just saying just because 75% of people think something is true, doesn't mean it is.
The last 30 years we've had only neoconservative populism and conservative populism just the 2 forms varying in cruelty and destruction only slightly, one more drawn out and hidden than the other and little or no common sense.

Of course the neoconservative populism is a lot less popular now that so many are suffering and that injustice and inequality are so overgrown and its main support now is through coercion from corruption and money in politics that anything that is not neoconservatism is becoming more popular. That's really scary to those who rely on coercion and corruption and inequality and injustice to support them.

So I can see why its so distasteful to them as they will have to graduate to higher and higher amounts of those things coercion corruption ect. for anyone to advocate against those corrupt systems but at the same time we must realize that resisting it only makes it more and more and more inevitable. people are crying out to heal the nation and calling their tears populism wont hide them.
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Re: Storming The Capital 2: A Counter Storm is Coming

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I personally think you use the word "neoconservativism" to mean something it doesn't normally.

In the simplest terms, paleoconservatives support isolationism, neoconservatives support internationalism. I personally don't find either branch or modality preferable - to put it in Carmen terms, cons are cons, whatever variety they are. But as I've said, Trump seems more paleoconservative than neoconservative, at least insofar as he definitely has "paleo" views on free trade, immigration, and international relations. The "neos" like Bill Kristol don't seem to like him. I again definitely agree though that just because they don't like Trump, I will NOT ignore the fact many of these a-holes dragged us into the Iraq War. Nor have I forgotten it.

As I said, I don't like the neos any better than the paleos, though a lot of the nevertrumpers are neos.

P.S. it is also true the neos also tend to be more closely aligned with Likud/Revisionist Zionism.
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Re: Storming The Capital 2: A Counter Storm is Coming

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ProfX wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 4:39 pm I personally think you use the word "neoconservativism" to mean something it doesn't normally.

In the simplest terms, paleoconservatives support isolationism, neoconservatives support internationalism. I personally don't find either branch or modality preferable - to put it in Carmen terms, cons are cons, whatever variety they are. But as I've said, Trump seems more paleoconservative than neoconservative, at least insofar as he definitely has "paleo" views on free trade, immigration, and international relations. The "neos" like Bill Kristol don't seem to like him. I again definitely agree though that just because they don't like Trump, I will NOT ignore the fact many of these a-holes dragged us into the Iraq War. Nor have I forgotten it.

As I said, I don't like the neos any better than the paleos, though a lot of the nevertrumpers are neos.

P.S. it is also true the neos also tend to be more closely aligned with Likud/Revisionist Zionism.
I dunno. Trump really doesn't have any "ism" except for making as much money and being a bully. He simply glommed onto whatever got his followers going. He's no anti-free trader, he just did that because his followers ARE. So he pushed through a new NAFTA bill that really didn't do a damned thing. His foreign policy swung whichever way foreign leaders played to his ego. I mean, his best buddies were Putin and Kim, who played him like a fiddle.

And yes, you are right about the Neos. While it's good that Liz Cheney stood up against Trump, she's quite odious in the rest of her politics. She's a warmonger for sure. But it seems that the ONLY conservative with the balls to ACTUALLY stand up against Trump's bullying is a woman. I'll give her that.
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Re: Storming The Capital 2: A Counter Storm is Coming

Post by Motor City »

ProfX wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 4:39 pm I personally think you use the word "neoconservativism" to mean something it doesn't normally.

In the simplest terms, paleoconservatives support isolationism, neoconservatives support internationalism. I personally don't find either branch or modality preferable - to put it in Carmen terms, cons are cons, whatever variety they are. But as I've said, Trump seems more paleoconservative than neoconservative, at least insofar as he definitely has "paleo" views on free trade, immigration, and international relations. The "neos" like Bill Kristol don't seem to like him. I again definitely agree though that just because they don't like Trump, I will NOT ignore the fact many of these a-holes dragged us into the Iraq War. Nor have I forgotten it.

As I said, I don't like the neos any better than the paleos, though a lot of the nevertrumpers are neos.

P.S. it is also true the neos also tend to be more closely aligned with Likud/Revisionist Zionism.
I would say neoconservatism is those who like to use war and military build up and terrorism hysteria to transform the treasury into a wall between workers and the fruits of their labors, and people and their rights and further transform through contractors and corporations their own wealth and immunity to justice and need and also through corrupted and bribed government. also can be policy guided by mean spirited projections on what people dont deserve.
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Re: Storming The Capital 2: A Counter Storm is Coming

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https://news.trust.org/item/20211110183521-grz2f

41 months for hitting a police officer.
211 people charged so far, assault, trespassing and impeding police.
Not one charged with sedation or any of the crimes the sheeple on the left claim.
Why?
Because this was a political rally that turned into a riot. Not an attempt to overthrow our government.
Now, if a person wants to claim ir believe that the rioters were cohersed into rioting and that was premeditated to whip them into that frenzy it would be very hard to disagree with that assessment
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Re: Storming The Capital 2: A Counter Storm is Coming

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Glennfs wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 5:13 pm https://news.trust.org/item/20211110183521-grz2f

41 months for hitting a police officer.
211 people charged so far, assault, trespassing and impeding police.
Not one charged with sedation or any of the crimes the sheeple on the left claim.
Why?
Because this was a political rally that turned into a riot. Not an attempt to overthrow our government.
Now, if a person wants to claim ir believe that the rioters were cohersed into rioting and that was premeditated to whip them into that frenzy it would be very hard to disagree with that assessment
Thank you Donald Trump. You're sure listening to him, instead of siding on the side of our nation.
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Re: Storming The Capital 2: A Counter Storm is Coming

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gounion wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 5:16 pm Thank you Donald Trump. You're sure listening to him, instead of siding on the side of our nation.
So when do you believe we will see people charged with the crimes you believe were committed.
In other words the crimes the left wing media tells you occurred.
So far you are zero for 211
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Re: Storming The Capital 2: A Counter Storm is Coming

Post by marindem01 »

gounion wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 5:16 pm Thank you Donald Trump. You're sure listening to him, instead of siding on the side of our nation.
As we have seen time and again. Glenn will continue to defend and support the Traitor. The Insurrection was directed and supported by the Traitor. Glenn defends and supports the Traitor. Glenn defends the people who attempted to overthrow a Democratically Elected President.

We know where Glenn stands.
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Re: Storming The Capital 2: A Counter Storm is Coming

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Glennfs wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 5:13 pm https://news.trust.org/item/20211110183521-grz2f

41 months for hitting a police officer.
211 people charged so far, assault, trespassing and impeding police.
Not one charged with sedation or any of the crimes the sheeple on the left claim.
Why?
Because this was a political rally that turned into a riot. Not an attempt to overthrow our government.
Now, if a person wants to claim ir believe that the rioters were cohersed into rioting and that was premeditated to whip them into that frenzy it would be very hard to disagree with that assessment
No, it was an attempt to overthrow the government. If you were actually following along and not lying, you'd know this. We all knew about the plans before it even happened, because it was being tracked on social media. The 41 months is close to the maximum sentence sought by the prosecution in this case. which is one of the bigger sentences so far. The higher ups, who haven't been dealt with yet, are the actual planners.

There's a reason Trump is trying to block the information about this from the Jan 6 committee.
Last edited by Drak on Wed Nov 10, 2021 5:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Storming The Capital 2: A Counter Storm is Coming

Post by Glennfs »

marindem01 wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 5:31 pm As we have seen time and again. Glenn will continue to defend and support the Traitor. The Insurrection was directed and supported by the Traitor. Glenn defends and supports the Traitor. Glenn defends the people who attempted to overthrow a Democratically Elected President.

We know where Glenn stands.
If it was an insurrection when are we going to see people charged as such? So far 211 people charged all with crimes far less than insurrection.
Primarily obstruction a police officer and trespassing.
I personally believe at very worse we might see some of the speakers and organizers charged with inciting violence or a riot.
" I am a socialist " Bernie Sanders
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Re: Storming The Capital 2: A Counter Storm is Coming

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Glennfs wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 5:24 pm So when do you believe we will see people charged with the crimes you believe were committed.
In other words the crimes the left wing media tells you occurred.
So far you are zero for 211
Thank YOU for deciding - without knowing the evidence - that there was no crime.

But then, that's what Trump says, right?
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Re: Storming The Capital 2: A Counter Storm is Coming

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Glennfs wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 5:37 pm If it was an insurrection when are we going to see people charged as such? So far 211 people charged all with crimes far less than insurrection.
Primarily obstruction a police officer and trespassing.
I personally believe at very worse we might see some of the speakers and organizers charged with inciting violence or a riot.

This isn't an episode of Law and Order.
Last edited by Drak on Wed Nov 10, 2021 5:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Storming The Capital 2: A Counter Storm is Coming

Post by gounion »

Glennfs wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 5:37 pm If it was an insurrection when are we going to see people charged as such? So far 211 people charged all with crimes far less than insurrection.
Primarily obstruction a police officer and trespassing.
I personally believe at very worse we might see some of the speakers and organizers charged with inciting violence or a riot.
We know Trump wanted to overthrow the government, and conspired to do so. But you'll side with him against our democracy.

The first time since the Civil War that we haven't had a peaceful handoff of power. But you don't care, do you?
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Re: Storming The Capital 2: A Counter Storm is Coming

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Drak wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 5:37 pm No, it was an attempt to overthrow the government. If you were actually following along and not lying, you'd know this. We all knew about the plans before it even happened, because it was being tracked on social media. The 41 months is close to the maximum sentence sought by the prosecution in this case. which is one of the bigger sentences so far. The higher ups, who haven't been dealt with yet, are the actual planners.

There's a reason Trump is trying to block the information about this from the Jan 6 committee.
So after nobody gets charged or convicted of insurrection or a crime related to trying to overthrow the government I suppose you will say they got away with it.
I personally believe the congressional hearings are going to drag on by design until after the midterms.
That way the democratic party can yell obstructionist when speaker McCarthy ends the investigation.
They have 13 months to prove me wrong. The DOJ has 37 months.
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Re: Storming The Capital 2: A Counter Storm is Coming

Post by Glennfs »

gounion wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 5:38 pm Thank YOU for deciding - without knowing the evidence - that there was no crime.

But then, that's what Trump says, right?
Thank you for declaring without knowing the evidence they are all guilty
But, then that is what Maddow says, right?
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Re: Storming The Capital 2: A Counter Storm is Coming

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Glennfs wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 5:42 pm So after nobody gets charged or convicted of insurrection or a crime related to trying to overthrow the government I suppose you will say they got away with it.
I personally believe the congressional hearings are going to drag on by design until after the midterms.
That way the democratic party can yell obstructionist when speaker McCarthy ends the investigation.
They have 13 months to prove me wrong. The DOJ has 37 months.
Because as soon as the people YOU vote for, they will shut down all investigations.

Got it.

So that's what you want. You WANT Trump to get away, and even to run again in 2024.
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Re: Storming The Capital 2: A Counter Storm is Coming

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Glennfs wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 5:43 pm Thank you for declaring without knowing the evidence they are all guilty
But, then that is what Maddow says, right?
I watched it live on TV as it was happening. I HEARD what they were saying.

But I guess you say I should believe my lying eyes, right?

Whatever Trump tells you. Glad you stopped pretending you didn't support him.
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Re: Storming The Capital 2: A Counter Storm is Coming

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EXCLUSIVE: Jan. 6 Protest Organizers Say They Participated in ‘Dozens’ of Planning Meetings With Members of Congress and White House Staff
Two sources are communicating with House investigators and detailed a stunning series of allegations to Rolling Stone, including a promise of a “blanket pardon” from the Oval Office

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/p ... e-1245289/

As the House investigation into the Jan. 6 attack heats up, some of the planners of the pro-Trump rallies that took place in Washington, D.C., have begun communicating with congressional investigators and sharing new information about what happened when the former president’s supporters stormed the U.S. Capitol. Two of these people have spoken to Rolling Stone extensively in recent weeks and detailed explosive allegations that multiple members of Congress were intimately involved in planning both Trump’s efforts to overturn his election loss and the Jan. 6 events that turned violent.

[snip][end]
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Re: Storming The Capital 2: A Counter Storm is Coming

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Glennfs wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 5:42 pm So after nobody gets charged or convicted of insurrection or a crime related to trying to overthrow the government I suppose you will say they got away with it.
I personally believe the congressional hearings are going to drag on by design until after the midterms.
That way the democratic party can yell obstructionist when speaker McCarthy ends the investigation.
They have 13 months to prove me wrong. The DOJ has 37 months.
I don't really care what you believe. Those who planned the actual insurrection would be the ones charged with such crimes, not the grunts who showed up.

There's a reason Donald Trump is attempting to block the records and why the GOP didn't want this investigated. You can keep singing your denial all you want.

We've all seen the Eastman memo. We've all heard the words come out of Trump's mouth that day. And the inaction of calling in the guard. It was called "Stop the Steal." They were ordered to march on the Capital and do so. We all heard Steve Bannon's words. We all heard people like Boebert and Gosar, and MTG call it their 1776 and a historic day that would go down in history. We all saw this go down in real time. We all tracked it up until it happened. You just want to deny reality but that's tough.
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Re: Storming The Capital 2: A Counter Storm is Coming

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Drak wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 5:47 pm I don't really care what you believe. Those who planned the actual insurrection would be the ones charged with such crimes, not the grunts who showed up.

There's a reason Donald Trump is attempting to block the records and why the GOP didn't want this investigated. You can keep singing your denial all you want.

We've all seen the Eastman memo. We've all heard the words come out of Trump's mouth that day. And the inaction of calling in the guard. It was called "Stop the Steal." They were ordered to march on the Capital and do so. We all heard Steve Bannon's words. We all heard people like Boebert and Gosar, and MTG call it their 1776 and a historic day that would go down in history. We all saw this go down in real time. We all tracked it up until it happened. You just want to deny reality but that's tough.
Glenn doesn't believe any of it. He thinks that Trump is innocent of all charges.
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Re: Storming The Capital 2: A Counter Storm is Coming

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gounion wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 5:44 pm Because as soon as the people YOU vote for, they will shut down all investigations.

Got it.

So that's what you want. You WANT Trump to get away, and even to run again in 2024.
Of course he does. Glenn is a cheerleader for his team. That's all he cares about. Doesn't matter that they attempted to overthrow the government. He's a good German.
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Re: Storming The Capital 2: A Counter Storm is Coming

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Drak wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 5:49 pm Of course he does. Glenn is a cheerleader for his team. That's all he cares about. Doesn't matter that they attempted to overthrow the government. He's a good German.
It's all about owning the Libs. Because he thinks we're all communists and socialists and racists.
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Re: Storming The Capital 2: A Counter Storm is Coming

Post by Glennfs »

gounion wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 5:50 pm It's all about owning the Libs. Because he thinks we're all communists and socialists and racists.
There you go with that bullshit again because you have nothing.
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