Yet another reason to not vote for democrats

News and events of the day
JoeMemphis
Posts: 1499
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2023 5:39 pm

Re: Yet another reason to not vote for democrats

Post by JoeMemphis »

gounion wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2023 3:54 pm It sure sounds like it. That’s what your statement said. So what is the government responsible for paying for? If your child wants to be an astronaut, must they provide all the training for it?
A basic education.
gounion
Posts: 17255
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:59 pm

Re: Yet another reason to not vote for democrats

Post by gounion »

JoeMemphis wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2023 4:01 pm A basic education.
That’s FAR different from what you said. You said they needed “choice”.

So if every school gives a basic education, what more must the government do?

You want every parent to have a say. Is a “basic education” defined by each parent? How will that work?
JoeMemphis
Posts: 1499
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2023 5:39 pm

Re: Yet another reason to not vote for democrats

Post by JoeMemphis »

gounion wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2023 4:13 pm That’s FAR different from what you said. You said they needed “choice”.

So if every school gives a basic education, what more must the government do?

You want every parent to have a say. Is a “basic education” defined by each parent? How will that work?
Parents and students have choice in secondary education. I’m not speaking of education a la carte. You already know that. I’m not into wasting money on schools that fail to accomplish their basic mission to educate.
gounion
Posts: 17255
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:59 pm

Re: Yet another reason to not vote for democrats

Post by gounion »

JoeMemphis wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2023 4:32 pm Parents and students have choice in secondary education. I’m not speaking of education a la carte. You already know that. I’m not into wasting money on schools that fail to accomplish their basic mission to educate.
Well, that’s NOT what you’ve been saying for months now. You’ve demanded the parents get EXACTLY what the parents want, NOT what the education system says they need. You say the parents are the one to decide, not the schools.

Quite a change, agreed?
JoeMemphis
Posts: 1499
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2023 5:39 pm

Re: Yet another reason to not vote for democrats

Post by JoeMemphis »

gounion wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2023 4:34 pm Well, that’s NOT what you’ve been saying for months now. You’ve demanded the parents get EXACTLY what the parents want, NOT what the education system says they need. You say the parents are the one to decide, not the schools.

Quite a change, agreed?
If you have to lie to make your argument, you have no argument.
gounion
Posts: 17255
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:59 pm

Re: Yet another reason to not vote for democrats

Post by gounion »

JoeMemphis wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2023 5:09 pm If you have to lie to make your argument, you have no argument.
I’d look in the mirror when I wrote that, if I were you. You’re the one that’s been making the argument that parents should decide what their kids learn, not the schools, and I’ve been asking you how that would work.
JoeMemphis
Posts: 1499
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2023 5:39 pm

Re: Yet another reason to not vote for democrats

Post by JoeMemphis »

gounion wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2023 5:19 pm I’d look in the mirror when I wrote that, if I were you. You’re the one that’s been making the argument that parents should decide what their kids learn, not the schools, and I’ve been asking you how that would work.
Those are your words. If you had been looking in the mirror you wouldn’t have been able to write them in the first place. I’m just applying your written standard for other people to you. And you failed. Over and over and over.
gounion
Posts: 17255
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:59 pm

Re: Yet another reason to not vote for democrats

Post by gounion »

JoeMemphis wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2023 5:28 pm Those are your words. If you had been looking in the mirror you wouldn’t have been able to write them in the first place. I’m just applying your written standard for other people to you. And you failed. Over and over and over.
You’re the one that says things then pisses backwards. Did you not say you supported gay rights? Yes or no?
JoeMemphis
Posts: 1499
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2023 5:39 pm

Re: Yet another reason to not vote for democrats

Post by JoeMemphis »

gounion wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2023 5:32 pm You’re the one that says things then pisses backwards. Did you not say you supported gay rights? Yes or no?
Yep. Have for years. Haven’t changed.
gounion
Posts: 17255
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:59 pm

Re: Yet another reason to not vote for democrats

Post by gounion »

JoeMemphis wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2023 5:42 pm Yep. Have for years. Haven’t changed.
So, would you vote for someone that would make being homosexual in public illegal? Do you support such politicians?
JoeMemphis
Posts: 1499
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2023 5:39 pm

Re: Yet another reason to not vote for democrats

Post by JoeMemphis »

gounion wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2023 5:56 pm So, would you vote for someone that would make being homosexual in public illegal? Do you support such politicians?
I would not support such legislation. I think it would fail
On constitutional grounds under the equal protection clause.
gounion
Posts: 17255
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:59 pm

Re: Yet another reason to not vote for democrats

Post by gounion »

JoeMemphis wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2023 6:00 pm I would not support such legislation. I think it would fail
On constitutional grounds under the equal protection clause.
So would you vote for someone that voted as a representative to enact it?

And would you vote for someone that tried to ban men dressing as women?
JoeMemphis
Posts: 1499
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2023 5:39 pm

Re: Yet another reason to not vote for democrats

Post by JoeMemphis »

gounion wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2023 6:06 pm So would you vote for someone that voted as a representative to enact it?

And would you vote for someone that tried to ban men dressing as women?
Asked and answered.
gounion
Posts: 17255
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:59 pm

Re: Yet another reason to not vote for democrats

Post by gounion »

JoeMemphis wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2023 6:07 pm Asked and answered.
No, you haven’t. You said you didn’t agree with such a law, but you didn’t say whether you would withhold support from someone who passed such a law.
JoeMemphis
Posts: 1499
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2023 5:39 pm

Re: Yet another reason to not vote for democrats

Post by JoeMemphis »

gounion wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2023 6:09 pm No, you haven’t. You said you didn’t agree with such a law, but you didn’t say whether you would withhold support from someone who passed such a law.
Your words

“This is a DISCUSSION board, not a place for pushing legislation. We discuss things here. Changing minds happens before legislation.”

Who I vote for and why is irrelevant if we aren’t pushing legislation. I told you where I stand on the policy you mentioned. Told you why. It’s a position I have held for years and have so stated to your chagrin many times on this board.

Asked and answered.
gounion
Posts: 17255
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:59 pm

Re: Yet another reason to not vote for democrats

Post by gounion »

JoeMemphis wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2023 7:14 pm Your words

“This is a DISCUSSION board, not a place for pushing legislation. We discuss things here. Changing minds happens before legislation.”

Who I vote for and why is irrelevant if we aren’t pushing legislation. I told you where I stand on the policy you mentioned. Told you why. It’s a position I have held for years and have so stated to your chagrin many times on this board.

Asked and answered.
I asked if you would vote for someone who passed such legislation. You didn't answer. What are you so fucking afraid of?
JoeMemphis
Posts: 1499
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2023 5:39 pm

Re: Yet another reason to not vote for democrats

Post by JoeMemphis »

gounion wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2023 7:18 pm I asked if you would vote for someone who passed such legislation. You didn't answer. What are you so fucking afraid of?
What’s the relevance of the question? Are we talking about gay rights or something else. You are all over the place. I don’t vote and probably won’t vote for people you like. I’m not a progressive and I’m not going to vote for people who will turn this country into California. Sorry to disappoint. I don’t believe those policies are good for the country.

Equal rights for gay people is protected by the Constitution. Gay people have a right to equal protection under the law. That’s my position. It has been my position for many years and I have stated as much numerous times on this board. You are free to agree or disagree with my position. You are not free to assign a position to me. That’s dishonest.
gounion
Posts: 17255
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:59 pm

Re: Yet another reason to not vote for democrats

Post by gounion »

JoeMemphis wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2023 7:33 pm What’s the relevance of the question? Are we talking about gay rights or something else. You are all over the place. I don’t vote and probably won’t vote for people you like. I’m not a progressive and I’m not going to vote for people who will turn this country into California. Sorry to disappoint. I don’t believe those policies are good for the country.

Equal rights for gay people is protected by the Constitution. Gay people have a right to equal protection under the law. That’s my position. It has been my position for many years and I have stated as much numerous times on this board. You are free to agree or disagree with my position. You are not free to assign a position to me. That’s dishonest.
Let me lay it out for you, since you don't seem to understand how things work. You say you support Gay Marriage. But you probably don't know that Obergefell was decided in 2015, by a vote of 5-4. Meaning four Justices voted NO on providing gays the right to marry. Three of them, Thomas, Alito and Roberts are still Justices. Which means that if only two of the three new judges decide to join them, they can overturn that.

You say gays have equal rights. Not in Florida they don't. Not under Ron DeSantis they don't. He says a man - gay or not - does not have the right to dress in women's clothing. How do I know this? https://thehill.com/changing-america/re ... ing-women/
Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis (R) this week filed a complaint against a Miami restaurant after a video of children attending a drag show at the establishment was posted by the popular right-wing social media account LibsofTikTok and shared thousands of times.

DeSantis in the complaint filed Tuesday against R House, which hosts drag brunch events, alleges the restaurant violated state law and cites a 1947 state Supreme Court ruling that “men impersonating women” in a “suggestive and indecent” fashion constitutes a public nuisance.

In hosting drag performances in the presence of young children, the restaurant has also violated a state disorderly conduct statute and a separate statute prohibiting the operation of a business “for the purpose of lewdness,” according to the complaint, a copy of which was obtained by Changing America.

If the complaint is successful, R House’s liquor license could be revoked.
Let's be clear: NO ONE was acting in a "suggestive or indecent manner" - no more than Robin Williams was acting in a "suggestive and indecent" manner.

But that's where we were. You can argue that the Constitution protects them - but three justices say that gays don't have the same rights as everyone else.

I'm sure a couple of years ago when we talked about women's rights to an abortion, you'd have said the same thing - the Constitution protects them. Well, not anymore, because of the votes of the Justices YOU SUPPORT.

And when Roe was overturned, Justice Thomas wrote in his concurring opinion: "https://www.politico.com/news/2022/06/2 ... s-00042256
Thomas — an appointee of President George H.W. Bush — wrote that the justices “should reconsider all of this Court’s substantive due process precedents, including Griswold, Lawrence, and Obergefell” — referring to three cases having to do with Americans’ fundamental privacy, due process and equal protection rights.
And since you don't know history, Lawrence v. Texas in 2003 - 20 years ago - decided that laws outlawing gay sex were unconstitutional, for the first time giving gay people rights.

Griswold v. Connecticut, decided in 1965, decided that Americans have a right to purchase and use contraceptives. Before that, in many states, including Connecticut, they were illegal - EVEN FOR MARRIED COUPLES.

So, first, you can say gays have equal rights all you want, but you could have said the same thing for Roe - the right wants to overturn BOTH Obergefell AND Lawrence, whereas gays will no longer have any rights. Your state is doing everything it can NOW to take the rights of gays away.

Since Thomas wants to overturn these laws, the last Congress, when the Dems controlled the House, voted for a bill that would make it the law of the land, not just supported by the Constitution, to allow Americans to buy and use contraceptives. All the Democrats voted for it. ONLY 8 Republicans voted for it, 195 against. Two voted "present" and six didn't vote at all. Here's that vote. https://clerk.house.gov/Votes/2022385

You can also see on the link who voted which way. The ONLY Republican in Florida that voted FOR it was Maria Elvira Salazar, in Miami.

The bill was blocked in the Senate.

This year, it's been re-introduced. It's H.R. 4121 in the House, and S 1999 in the Senate. NOT ONE REPUBLICAN has signed on to co-sponsor either bill.

So you can say the same thing about Contraception. You can say it's protected by the Constitution. But if the people YOU vote for win enough votes to keep the Supreme Court conservative, then it won't be protected any more.

You don't want us to become California. Well, I guess you feel so fucking strongly about that, but do you care if women die because they no longer have the right to a safe and effective abortion?

So you can say you support these rights, but you don't vote for people that do.

I guess that's so you can pretend you didn't want them to pass the laws and change the Constitutional protects you brag about, right?

You tell us where you stand.
Glennfs
Posts: 10315
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:54 pm

Re: Yet another reason to not vote for democrats

Post by Glennfs »

gounion wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2023 8:41 pm Let me lay it out for you, since you don't seem to understand how things work. You say you support Gay Marriage. But you probably don't know that Obergefell was decided in 2015, by a vote of 5-4. Meaning four Justices voted NO on providing gays the right to marry. Three of them, Thomas, Alito and Roberts are still Justices. Which means that if only two of the three new judges decide to join them, they can overturn that.

You say gays have equal rights. Not in Florida they don't. Not under Ron DeSantis they don't. He says a man - gay or not - does not have the right to dress in women's clothing. How do I know this? https://thehill.com/changing-america/re ... ing-women/



Let's be clear: NO ONE was acting in a "suggestive or indecent manner" - no more than Robin Williams was acting in a "suggestive and indecent" manner.

But that's where we were. You can argue that the Constitution protects them - but three justices say that gays don't have the same rights as everyone else.

I'm sure a couple of years ago when we talked about women's rights to an abortion, you'd have said the same thing - the Constitution protects them. Well, not anymore, because of the votes of the Justices YOU SUPPORT.

And when Roe was overturned, Justice Thomas wrote in his concurring opinion: "https://www.politico.com/news/2022/06/2 ... s-00042256



And since you don't know history, Lawrence v. Texas in 2003 - 20 years ago - decided that laws outlawing gay sex were unconstitutional, for the first time giving gay people rights.

Griswold v. Connecticut, decided in 1965, decided that Americans have a right to purchase and use contraceptives. Before that, in many states, including Connecticut, they were illegal - EVEN FOR MARRIED COUPLES.

So, first, you can say gays have equal rights all you want, but you could have said the same thing for Roe - the right wants to overturn BOTH Obergefell AND Lawrence, whereas gays will no longer have any rights. Your state is doing everything it can NOW to take the rights of gays away.

Since Thomas wants to overturn these laws, the last Congress, when the Dems controlled the House, voted for a bill that would make it the law of the land, not just supported by the Constitution, to allow Americans to buy and use contraceptives. All the Democrats voted for it. ONLY 8 Republicans voted for it, 195 against. Two voted "present" and six didn't vote at all. Here's that vote. https://clerk.house.gov/Votes/2022385

You can also see on the link who voted which way. The ONLY Republican in Florida that voted FOR it was Maria Elvira Salazar, in Miami.

The bill was blocked in the Senate.

This year, it's been re-introduced. It's H.R. 4121 in the House, and S 1999 in the Senate. NOT ONE REPUBLICAN has signed on to co-sponsor either bill.

So you can say the same thing about Contraception. You can say it's protected by the Constitution. But if the people YOU vote for win enough votes to keep the Supreme Court conservative, then it won't be protected any more.

You don't want us to become California. Well, I guess you feel so fucking strongly about that, but do you care if women die because they no longer have the right to a safe and effective abortion?

So you can say you support these rights, but you don't vote for people that do.

I guess that's so you can pretend you didn't want them to pass the laws and change the Constitutional protects you brag about, right?

You tell us where you stand.
How do you know nobody was acting in a lewd manner? Did you see the show?
" I am a socialist " Bernie Sanders
gounion
Posts: 17255
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:59 pm

Re: Yet another reason to not vote for democrats

Post by gounion »

Glennfs wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2023 9:08 pm How do you know nobody was acting in a lewd manner? Did you see the show?
At a Sunday family brunch? Really?

Sorry, but to me, it'd be DeSantis' job to prove there WAS.

Do you agree with DeSantis? Making it illegal to wear women's clothing?
JoeMemphis
Posts: 1499
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2023 5:39 pm

Re: Yet another reason to not vote for democrats

Post by JoeMemphis »

gounion wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2023 8:41 pm Let me lay it out for you, since you don't seem to understand how things work. You say you support Gay Marriage. But you probably don't know that Obergefell was decided in 2015, by a vote of 5-4. Meaning four Justices voted NO on providing gays the right to marry. Three of them, Thomas, Alito and Roberts are still Justices. Which means that if only two of the three new judges decide to join them, they can overturn that.

You say gays have equal rights. Not in Florida they don't. Not under Ron DeSantis they don't. He says a man - gay or not - does not have the right to dress in women's clothing. How do I know this? https://thehill.com/changing-america/re ... ing-women/



Let's be clear: NO ONE was acting in a "suggestive or indecent manner" - no more than Robin Williams was acting in a "suggestive and indecent" manner.

But that's where we were. You can argue that the Constitution protects them - but three justices say that gays don't have the same rights as everyone else.

I'm sure a couple of years ago when we talked about women's rights to an abortion, you'd have said the same thing - the Constitution protects them. Well, not anymore, because of the votes of the Justices YOU SUPPORT.

And when Roe was overturned, Justice Thomas wrote in his concurring opinion: "https://www.politico.com/news/2022/06/2 ... s-00042256



And since you don't know history, Lawrence v. Texas in 2003 - 20 years ago - decided that laws outlawing gay sex were unconstitutional, for the first time giving gay people rights.

Griswold v. Connecticut, decided in 1965, decided that Americans have a right to purchase and use contraceptives. Before that, in many states, including Connecticut, they were illegal - EVEN FOR MARRIED COUPLES.

So, first, you can say gays have equal rights all you want, but you could have said the same thing for Roe - the right wants to overturn BOTH Obergefell AND Lawrence, whereas gays will no longer have any rights. Your state is doing everything it can NOW to take the rights of gays away.

Since Thomas wants to overturn these laws, the last Congress, when the Dems controlled the House, voted for a bill that would make it the law of the land, not just supported by the Constitution, to allow Americans to buy and use contraceptives. All the Democrats voted for it. ONLY 8 Republicans voted for it, 195 against. Two voted "present" and six didn't vote at all. Here's that vote. https://clerk.house.gov/Votes/2022385

You can also see on the link who voted which way. The ONLY Republican in Florida that voted FOR it was Maria Elvira Salazar, in Miami.

The bill was blocked in the Senate.

This year, it's been re-introduced. It's H.R. 4121 in the House, and S 1999 in the Senate. NOT ONE REPUBLICAN has signed on to co-sponsor either bill.

So you can say the same thing about Contraception. You can say it's protected by the Constitution. But if the people YOU vote for win enough votes to keep the Supreme Court conservative, then it won't be protected any more.

You don't want us to become California. Well, I guess you feel so fucking strongly about that, but do you care if women die because they no longer have the right to a safe and effective abortion?

So you can say you support these rights, but you don't vote for people that do.

I guess that's so you can pretend you didn't want them to pass the laws and change the Constitutional protects you brag about, right?

You tell us where you stand.
I already told you where I stand. I haven’t changed. I don’t need to write a 1000 word essay. Go back and read my last post. That’s where I stand on gay rights.

You can write a hundreds of words but you can’t read and/or comprehend two paragraphs.
gounion
Posts: 17255
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:59 pm

Re: Yet another reason to not vote for democrats

Post by gounion »

JoeMemphis wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2023 10:59 pm I already told you where I stand. I haven’t changed. I don’t need to write a 1000 word essay. Go back and read my last post. That’s where I stand on gay rights.

You can write a hundreds of words but you can’t read and/or comprehend two paragraphs.
You don't stand anywhere. You can say that all you want, but you vote to end those rights, and if the GOP ends them, you'll still vote for them. Your votes says it all. They can vote against gay rights, against women's rights, and vote for Trump, and you'll still vote for them.

So you have no stance at all. And you have no rebuttal at all. You can't deal in facts, and you can't form a debate. You're like 10 years old. At the end, as always, you got nothing. You just can't sit at the adult table, run back to the kiddie card table.
JoeMemphis
Posts: 1499
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2023 5:39 pm

Re: Yet another reason to not vote for democrats

Post by JoeMemphis »

gounion wrote: Fri Dec 15, 2023 7:23 am You don't stand anywhere. You can say that all you want, but you vote to end those rights, and if the GOP ends them, you'll still vote for them. Your votes says it all. They can vote against gay rights, against women's rights, and vote for Trump, and you'll still vote for them.

So you have no stance at all. And you have no rebuttal at all. You can't deal in facts, and you can't form a debate. You're like 10 years old. At the end, as always, you got nothing. You just can't sit at the adult table, run back to the kiddie card table.
Clearly you don’t understand how things work. Not everybody agrees with YOU. Not everybody votes the way YOU want. Not everybody decides who to vote for and why because of what YOU want. In the great scheme of things, what YOU want is irrelevant. It’s not all about YOU or about me. Get over yourself.

Who I vote for and why isn’t a single issue calculus. Said that to your dumbass many many many times. I’m not a progressive although I can and often do support some progressive ideals. I get you can’t understand that. Not my problem.

I told you where I stand on gay rights. I don’t give a shit if YOU agree. I’m not changing my stance. You can support what you like and vote for whom you like. I don’t give a shit. Never have. It’s your vote. My vote is my vote and I will spend it as I choose or choose not to vote at all. You said we discuss policy and aren’t here to push legislation. Your words. So whom I vote for is irrelevant to the policy discussion because that’s only important when you are pushing legislation. This is a discussion board.
gounion
Posts: 17255
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:59 pm

Re: Yet another reason to not vote for democrats

Post by gounion »

JoeMemphis wrote: Fri Dec 15, 2023 9:48 am Clearly you don’t understand how things work. Not everybody agrees with YOU. Not everybody votes the way YOU want. Not everybody decides who to vote for and why because of what YOU want. In the great scheme of things, what YOU want is irrelevant. It’s not all about YOU or about me. Get over yourself.

Who I vote for and why isn’t a single issue calculus. Said that to your dumbass many many many times. I’m not a progressive although I can and often do support some progressive ideals. I get you can’t understand that. Not my problem.

I told you where I stand on gay rights. I don’t give a shit if YOU agree. I’m not changing my stance. You can support what you like and vote for whom you like. I don’t give a shit. Never have. It’s your vote. My vote is my vote and I will spend it as I choose or choose not to vote at all. You said we discuss policy and aren’t here to push legislation. Your words. So whom I vote for is irrelevant to the policy discussion because that’s only important when you are pushing legislation. This is a discussion board.
The truth is, you don't give a fuck for gay rights. You don't care if they're taken away, just as you don't care that women's rights are taken away. All you care about is what affects YOU - you've made that very clear.

You don't mind what the GOP is doing to gay rights in Florida. You don't speak out against it.

But hey Hunter Biden's misdeeds are the most important issue in America today, right?
JoeMemphis
Posts: 1499
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2023 5:39 pm

Re: Yet another reason to not vote for democrats

Post by JoeMemphis »

gounion wrote: Fri Dec 15, 2023 10:03 am The truth is, you don't give a fuck for gay rights. You don't care if they're taken away, just as you don't care that women's rights are taken away. All you care about is what affects YOU - you've made that very clear.

You don't mind what the GOP is doing to gay rights in Florida. You don't speak out against it.

But hey Hunter Biden's misdeeds are the most important issue in America today, right?
No. The truth is you don’t give a fuck for what I think or what I post. You just want to argue. You are a dick. You like being a dick. You’ve always been a dick and you will always be be a dick. That’s the truth.

I told you where I stand. Where I have always stood. You can agree or disagree. Who I vote for and why isn’t part of the policy discussion. This is a discussion board. According to you. We don’t push legislation. Did you not understand your own post? Your own words. Or were they all just another lie. Another misrepresentation? One never knows with you. I doubt you know.
Post Reply