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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 2:54 pm 
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This happens so often. Hamas starts an unprovoked attack against Isreal. Then when they start running short on weaponry they agree to a cease fire. One ofthese days Isreal is going to do what we would would do. When that happens Hamas will no longer exist to spread their hatred and violence.



You don't think the IDF shooting a 13 year old boy is provocation?

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:49 am 
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That was a cruel by Hamas and very, very stupid. Neither side should do such things. Netanyahu should be very careful what he does next.

But for Israel to continue to build on West Bank is wrong. Taking Palestinian Land is even worse. You do not get peace by stealing land.


What Palestinian land? Gaza was Egyptian land, the West Bank was Jordanian land, the Golan Heights was Syrian land.

Why the Israelis have been held to some different standard regarding these hunks of dirt and the plight of the residents therein is for one reason only. The previous owners were Arabs. The current owners are Jews.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 10:25 am 
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And Israel will continue to treat the Palestinians like shit.

GoU


Well, as long as it is the Palestinians postition that Isreal shouldnt be allowed to exist I suspect you will be correct.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 11:11 am 

What Palestinian land? Gaza was Egyptian land, the West Bank was Jordanian land, the Golan Heights was Syrian land.

Why the Israelis have been held to some different standard regarding these hunks of dirt and the plight of the residents therein is for one reason only. The previous owners were Arabs. The current owners are Jews.


The difference that "Arabs" do not live behind barbed wire, guards with machine guns and can have their homes destroyed at the whim of the Jews.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 3:55 pm 
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What Palestinian land? Gaza was Egyptian land, the West Bank was Jordanian land, the Golan Heights was Syrian land.

Why the Israelis have been held to some different standard regarding these hunks of dirt and the plight of the residents therein is for one reason only. The previous owners were Arabs. The current owners are Jews.


You can krep reciting this as "history" if you like, but it doesn't make it accurate.


Israel has no lawful claim to Palestinian territory. Period. The "current owners" are NOT Jews. The current owners are Palestinians. That's why they're called the OCCUPIED territories.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 11:15 pm 
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The difference that "Arabs" do not live behind barbed wire, guards with machine guns and can have their homes destroyed at the whim of the Jews.


The whim of Jews? OK...got it...understood Doctor Mengele.

Meantime nobody had a beef when alleged Palestinian homelands and Palestinian rights to self-determination were ignored by Nasser, the Hashemite Royals of Jordan, and the Baath Party in Syria.\

BTW - the "Palestinians" of the region who are leading the most comfortable lives are not Palestinians who live in the West Bank, Gaza, or who might be citizens of Arab countries like Jordan, Lebanon, and Syria. They are "Palestinian" citizens of Israel, who have the highest standard of living of any "Palestinians" anywhere. They're so oppressed the last thing they want is to become citizens of some Palestinian state.

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I never said you were a racist Ike.

BUT YOU'RE NOT RACIST....EXCEPT WHEN YOU ARE.


Last edited by Ike Bana on Fri Nov 23, 2012 11:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 11:18 pm 
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You can krep reciting this as "history" if you like, but it doesn't make it accurate.


Israel has no lawful claim to Palestinian territory. Period. The "current owners" are NOT Jews. The current owners are Palestinians. That's why they're called the OCCUPIED territories.


Your dismissal of history that is inconvenient for you makes your agenda worse than inaccurate.

They are referred to as occupied territories by anybody who shares your agenda. They are not referred to as occupied territories by those who support the right of Israeli Jews not to be wiped off the face of the earth by their pacifist neighbors who only want peace. :roll:

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 11:47 pm 
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You don't think the IDF shooting a 13 year old boy is provocation?


I believe the reports by the Palestinian authorities have been disputed by the IDF.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:05 am 
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Your dismissal of history that is inconvenient for you makes your agenda worse than inaccurate.

They are referred to as occupied territories by anybody who shares your agenda. They are not referred to as occupied territories by those who support the right of Israeli Jews not to be wiped off the face of the earth by their pacifist neighbors who only want peace. :roll:


Ike, I'm not the one dismissing anything. It's just that the point that you always try to make about Jordan is totally irrelevant to the conversation today. You only bring it up to (try to) make the point that Israel is somehow being treated "unfairly."

Your juvenile outburst about "agendas" and some such is not really worth addressing. Grow up.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:18 am 
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I believe the reports by the Palestinian authorities have been disputed by the IDF.


Right, ok, we'll just take them at their word, because the IDF has never tried to cover up anything ever. Nothing like, oh, I don't know, the white phosphorus that they first said that they didn't use in Cast Lead, but then had to come clean after the clear video evidence.

But ok, fine, whatever. We'll take your hunch that the IDF disputed that they shot the boy, and we'll say: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/06/world ... n-man.html

Quote:
A Palestinian in the Gaza Strip who died early Monday after he was shot by Israeli forces as he approached the border fence with Israel was mentally ill, his family said. Israeli forces shot the man, Ahmad Nabhani, 23, as he crawled toward the border on Sunday evening, partly concealed in a dried river bed, an Israeli military spokeswoman said. She said he ignored several warnings to stop. Mr. Nabhani later died of his wounds. “He was sick, he had a mental illness,” said Mr. Nabhani’s brother, Hazem, 27. He said his brother was being heavily medicated for depression and had approached the border fence three times previously. Each time, Israeli forces handed him back to Palestinian authorities, his brother said. “My brother didn’t understand anything,” he said. “Sometimes you’d speak to him and he wouldn’t understand. It is like he wasn’t there.”


The shooting of an unarmed, mentally ill man isn't provocation enough?

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:22 am 
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Ike, I'm not the one dismissing anything. It's just that the point that you always try to make about Jordan is totally irrelevant to the conversation today. You only bring it up to (try to) make the point that Israel is somehow being treated "unfairly."

Your juvenile outburst about "agendas" and some such is not really worth addressing. Grow up.


It's irrelevant because you say so? Well...hey everybody. Meet jlee, the self-appointed RFL arbiter of credibility. Well guess what. You're wrong. It's as relevant as it gets. But I get it. Jews? Treated unfairly? Go figure.

And you...you have more agendas than Carter has pills. But outside of your mysterious personal problems with Israeli Jews, I don't much give a shit about any of them. You're OK with me jlee.

PS - Juvenile is as juvenile does.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:24 am 
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Right, ok, we'll just take them at their word, because the IDF has never tried to cover up anything ever.


Right, ok, just like the Palestinian Authority can be trusted as the only real source of accurate reportage in the region. Got it.

But hey! Nevermind that. Y'know what P-L-O stands for?

Push Leon Overboard.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:36 am 
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Here...I got another one.

On Leon's previous Mediterranean cruise he's sitting on his deck chair minding his own business when these three big tough Palestinians walk up and surround him. The first Palestinian says, "Jew! Go get me a beer!" Leon...not wanting to start trouble, gets up and goes for a beer. When he comes back, one of the big tough Palestinians has taken a shit on his chair cushion. Leon sighs, takes the cushion to the rail, shakes the shit off into the sea...returns to his chair and sits down. The second big tough Palestinian says, "Jew! Go get me a beer!" Leon goes, brings the beer back, takes his cushion to the rail to dump the second shit. The scened repeats itself once more with the third big tough Palestinian.

Leon lies back in his chair...let's out another long sigh..."Oy!", moans Leon. (With strong Yiddish accent.) "Vat a horrible Vorld. Look at how people are treating each other. Look at us!!! The Palestinians make drek on the Jew's chair. The Jew makes pish in the Palestinian's beer. Oh vey ist mir."

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:45 am 
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It's irrelevant because you say so? Well...hey everybody. Meet jlee, the self-appointed RFL arbiter of credibility. Well guess what. You're wrong. It's as relevant as it gets. But I get it. Jews? Treated unfairly? Go figure.

And you...you have more agendas than Carter has pills. But outside of your mysterious personal problems with Israeli Jews, I don't much give a shit about any of them. You're OK with me jlee.

PS - Juvenile is as juvenile does.


Juvenile is as juvenile does? Right Ike, go right on ahead believing that. Yes Ike, you're right. I'm so juvenile for dispassionately explaining why your arguments don't make any sense. As opposed to making thinly veiled accusations of anti semitism.

I've asked you before to explain your point and you've failed every single time to provide a cogent argument. So have at it. What relevance does Transjordan have to Israel's treatment of the Palestinians today? What relevance does Transjordan have to the U.N. and World Court judgments that Israel illegally occupies the Palestinian territories?

You can't explain why it's relevant because it's not. The only "point" you make about is that "the Jews were treated unfairly, go figure." Except you ignore the fact that Jordan wasn't killing the Palestinians, and that their occupation WAS IN FACT declared illegal by the Arab league, and was only recognized by 3 states!

So not only can you not explain why your pet talking point has any relevance whatsoever as to the conversation of how Israel treats the Palestinians since the Second Intifada, even if you could somehow muster that explanation, you still wouldn't be making a cogent argument because your little talking point is based on a completely a-historical interpretation of historical fact.

THAT'S why it's irrelevant. It's not just because "I say so," it's because I've explained all of the above to you before, and you can never get around it.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:04 am 
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Look...the world wants the Jews gone. They're nothing but a royal pain in the ass throughout history (which apparently means nothing to you) to any right minded Christian. Why the fuck do you think the UN decided to give them a homeland where they would be safe from another pogrom, another Spanish Inquisition, another Holocaust, right in the middle of tens of millions of people who hate their guts with even more fury than the Nazis??? Hell the only people on this planet that European Christians hate more than Muslims are Jews. Let them kill each other off as fast as possible.

Christians of the world hung European Jewry out to dry and twist in the wind at the hands of the people of Germany for 10 years. So European Christians (with American Christians just pretty much looking the other way) get them out of their hair in 1946, knowing that in 6 months they'll be over-run and driven into the Mediterranean Sea. Guess what...the Jews decided to change their behavior and not just waltz onto the fucking cattle cars anymore. Ever. Uh-oh.

I say the Jews of Israel know that when it comes down to it they're out there on their own. Just like they always have been. Nobody is gonna send flesh and blood to fight in their defense. Certainly not like we did the goddam Kuwaiti's, or Iraqi Kurds. I say Israeli Jews, the children and grandchildren of the Holocaust should do anything they can and use every means they have at their disposal, not to let it happen again. History shows us that they have absolutely nothing to lose.

And if you, or anybody else doesn't like it, jlee...I say, tough shit.

Now you go ahead on with more of your bilious treatises on what is, and is not a relevant argument. They mean less than nothing to me.

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I never said you were a racist Ike.

BUT YOU'RE NOT RACIST....EXCEPT WHEN YOU ARE.


Last edited by Ike Bana on Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:12 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:09 am 
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Like I said, you fail every time to explain why your point has any relevance.

You've had every opportunity to make your case. Instead, you fall back to a reactionary stance.

And based on what exactly? The fact that I've condemned Hamas, called them terrorists, and said that their rocket attacks on Israel are indisputably a war crime?

Yeah, I'm so "bilious" towards Israel.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:11 am 
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Nope. I never said you were bilious toward Israel. Read my post. You're just bilious in general.

PS - just kwitcher pathetic fucking whining about "...thinly veiled accusations of anti semitism." Not when you're so quick to play your bullshit racist card with me. Grow up indeed.

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I never said you were a racist Ike.

BUT YOU'RE NOT RACIST....EXCEPT WHEN YOU ARE.


Last edited by Ike Bana on Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:13 am 
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Still no explanation? Ok, I take it you cede the point.

And I think it's also clear just exactly who is being juvenile and making personal attacks.

So if you ever want to have a discussion about Israel like two rational adults, do let me know.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:15 am 
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Still no explanation? Ok, I take it you cede the point.

And I think it's also clear just exactly who is being juvenile and making personal attacks.

So if you ever want to have a discussion about Israel like two rational adults, do let me know.


When you want to act like a rational adult rather than a pompous ass, you let me know.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:17 am 
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I rest my case.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 7:56 am 
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True. However, Hamas "CHEERED" at the news of the bus bombing and the couple of dozen Israelis that were injured. Israelis NEVER cheer for civilian casualties on the other side. This is a HUGE difference.

That is such bull. All you have to do is read the comment sections on JNet or the Jerusalem Post and you'll see plenty of Israelis cheering the deaths of Palestinians.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 8:33 am 
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The whim of Jews? OK...got it...understood Doctor Mengele.

I don't particularly like justme01, either, but that comment is out of line. I think you owe him an apology.

Quote:
Meantime nobody had a beef when alleged Palestinian homelands and Palestinian rights to self-determination were ignored by Nasser, the Hashemite Royals of Jordan, and the Baath Party in Syria.

Ridiculous hyperbole. Plenty of people denounced the treatment of Palestinians at the hands of these dictators. The difference is that U.S. taxpayers weren't forced to support Nasser, the Hashemites or Assad.

Quote:
BTW - the "Palestinians" of the region who are leading the most comfortable lives are not Palestinians who live in the West Bank, Gaza, or who might be citizens of Arab countries like Jordan, Lebanon, and Syria. They are "Palestinian" citizens of Israel, who have the highest standard of living of any "Palestinians" anywhere. They're so oppressed the last thing they want is to become citizens of some Palestinian state.

While it is true that Arabs who live in Israel have rights as Israeli citizens, Arabs who live in lands occupied by Israel, or who scrape by in refugee camps in other Arab nations, do not. And no one knows how they would feel about becoming citizens of some Palestinian state, because such a state does not exist.

Though even that may change in the future, especially if racist goons like Avigdor Lieberman, Israeli FM and leader of the Yisrael Beiteinu Party, now formally merged with Netanyahu's Likud Party, has his way. He favors stripping Israeli Arabs of their rights and has advocated the ethnic cleansing of Arabs from Israel. So even the meager advantages Israeli Arabs currently enjoy are under constant threat from "democratic" Israelis like Lieberman.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 9:03 am 
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PS - just kwitcher pathetic fucking whining about "...thinly veiled accusations of anti semitism." Not when you're so quick to play your bullshit racist card with me. Grow up indeed.


The difference is that it's not just me who thinks what you've said in the past was racist. Actually, pretty much everyone who commented in those past threads thought what you said was racist. And I didn't even bring it up in this thread, you did. I'm not "quick" to play anything. But if/when you make racist statements, I'm going to call them racist.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 9:45 am 
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The difference is that it's not just me who thinks what you've said in the past was racist. Actually, pretty much everyone who commented in those past threads thought what you said was racist.


So...because I consider "Palestinian" to have become a political concept in today's world (and you keep bleating that we need to be talking about what is relevant and valid in today's world) as opposed to the cultural concept that it once was. So that makes me a racist in your pointy little head. Good, excellent even...I don't give a shit. But wait, I know...let's have a poll to see exactly how many member of this forum also believe that this would make me a racist. What a great idea. Then I can not give a shit about what they think of me either. Go ahead. Do it. I'm so interested in seeing the results.

And I didn't even bring it up in this thread, you did. I'm not "quick" to play anything.


Correct, you did not bring it up, I did. How remarkably accurate of you. You're a remarkable bastion of humanity and reason aren't ya? Thanks so much. In fact, you were not even part of the exchange where I referred to Dr. Mengele, now were you? When somebody starts talking about the "...whims of Jews..." being what's behind something, that's the point where I've identified an anti-semite. I don't believe you had anything to do with that. But look...if you're gonna go hypersensitive and become offended by a comment I directed at somebody else, then perhaps it hit a little closer to home than you want to admit, or maybe that you've even realized, eh? And...why am I not surprised?

But if/when you make racist statements, I'm going to call them racist.


Actually, you mis-speak. When somebody else makes a statement that you, as self-appointed forum arbiter of racists statements, has decided is a racist statement, you're going to call them racist. That doesn't prove you right. That proves you to be a pompous ass.

So I have a final suggestion. As far as you're concerned I'm a racist, as far as I'm concerned you're a pompous ass. Relevance is apparently important to you. I don't see any relevant reason for this interaction to continue. You appear to be as intelligent as anybody else around here...I can't see how you would disagree, unless you're not as intelligent as I thought.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:34 am 
The land is called "The Occupied Territories", because Israel Occupied them after the 1967 War. Israel forces the Men, Women and Children who live there to live under armed guard and Guard Towers.

Men, Women and Children have died at the border crossing trying to medical care.

Home have been destroyed and lands seized by Israel.

As stated before, there is no difference between a Dead Israeli Child and a Dead Palestinian Child. They are both equally dead.

Israel claims to want Peace, but continues to kill children of Palestinians with minimum provocation.

Then Israel acts surprised when Palestinian's respond to the murder of children with violence of their own.


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