Biden strengthens Buy American rules!

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JoeMemphis

Re: Biden strengthens Buy American rules!

Post by JoeMemphis »

ProfX wrote: Tue Mar 08, 2022 8:11 am FL used a priority system for the rollout of vaccines, I just don't think it was a good one. Without even getting into the scandals of how it looked like some folks used unfair advantage like deStupid political connections to jump ahead of the line.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/f ... le/2770684

The main and only priority DeStupid seemed to focus on was age, and this article explains why this was a bad strategy.

The big problem was they fell down on two key priorities, focusing on SES-disadvantaged groups, and focusing on high is-risk occupations (outside of health care workers). I don't object that they made sure the eldest folks were first in line, but it was almost tunnel-visioned in how that was the rollout focus, and again, this article shows other priorities they ignored. Also, the other problems when you make that the ONLY focus.

BTW, now, FL is now dead wrong in saying children should not get vaccinated. The risk of children dying is low but not nonzero, and for reasons I've explained, should not be the only focus. Also: it's ridiculous, the risk of myocarditis from getting COVID is higher than getting the vaccine. :roll:
I guess the point is that priorities were set and worked well in rolling out the vaccine. Were they perfect? Of course not. Nothing run by humans ever is. But as they say “don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good”. We set priorities all the time. We don’t carpet bomb every problem. We evaluate assess and mitigate risk.

As far as vaccinations in FL for kids under 5. I leave that decision to their parents. Those kids are at a very low risk from Covid. I don’t dispute your opinion re: myocarditis but it isn’t my decision to make.
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ProfX
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Re: Biden strengthens Buy American rules!

Post by ProfX »

JoeMemphis wrote: Tue Mar 08, 2022 8:36 am I guess the point is that priorities were set and worked well in rolling out the vaccine.
Some public health professionals in FL don't agree with you, Joe, but yeah, it too is in the rear view mirror.

FAU STUDY REVEALS GAPS IN FLORIDA’S COVID-19 VACCINE ROLLOUT
https://www.fau.edu/newsdesk/articles/e ... ollout.php

Not just imperfect: the rollout strategy was fundamentally flawed. Since we both are focused on the future, the flaws in FL's rollout system should not be ignored, cuz there will be a next time.
As far as vaccinations in FL for kids under 5. I leave that decision to their parents. Those kids are at a very low risk from Covid. I don’t dispute your opinion re: myocarditis but it isn’t my decision to make.
The decision was never taken away from parents. FL never said children must be vaccinated. Other states, neither, except if you send them to public school, but then that's in line with other existing rules and other diseases going back to the early 20th century.

No, my problem is our nut job of a "Surgeon General" is reversing the recommendations of the CDC on vaxing kids, and he's wrong. Yeah, the choice is up to parents. Except if they want to send their kids to a public school, and as I said that's how things have worked for a long time. What bugs me is our crank of a SGeneral is giving bad advice to parents and, without reason, contravening CDC advice (not mandates).
"Don't believe every quote attributed to people on the Internet" -- Abraham Lincoln :D
JoeMemphis

Re: Biden strengthens Buy American rules!

Post by JoeMemphis »

ProfX wrote: Tue Mar 08, 2022 8:53 am Some public health professionals in FL don't agree with you, Joe, but yeah, it too is in the rear view mirror.

FAU STUDY REVEALS GAPS IN FLORIDA’S COVID-19 VACCINE ROLLOUT
https://www.fau.edu/newsdesk/articles/e ... ollout.php

Not just imperfect: the rollout strategy was fundamentally flawed. Since we both are focused on the future, the flaws in FL's rollout system should not be ignored, cuz there will be a next time.



The decision was never taken away from parents. FL never said children must be vaccinated. Other states, neither, except if you send them to public school, but then that's in line with other existing rules and other diseases going back to the early 20th century.

No, my problem is our nut job of a "Surgeon General" is reversing the recommendations of the CDC on vaxing kids, and he's wrong. Yeah, the choice is up to parents. Except if they want to send their kids to a public school, and as I said that's how things have worked for a long time. What bugs me is our crank of a SGeneral is giving bad advice to parents and, without reason, contravening CDC advice (not mandates).
I don’t disagree that whatever shortcomings were identified should be addressed. Makes sense.

I am vaguely familiar with what the SG said in Florida. I understand it differs from the CDC. The folks in FL get to weigh in on that at election time. Guess I need to register to vote down here.
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ProfX
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Re: Biden strengthens Buy American rules!

Post by ProfX »

I'm unvaguely quite aware Msr. Ladapo was a member of America's Frontline Doctors.

One of their founders was just convicted for participation in 1/6.
https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/nati ... 07e3c1b2a7

I certainly don't vote for people who make nutcases our Surgeon General. Yessirree bob. Granted, I'll admit, it's reason #863 I won't be voting for De Stupid. Besides the fact that his vaccine rollout in FL was not just imperfect, but fundamentally wrongheaded.
"Don't believe every quote attributed to people on the Internet" -- Abraham Lincoln :D
JoeMemphis

Re: Biden strengthens Buy American rules!

Post by JoeMemphis »

ProfX wrote: Tue Mar 08, 2022 9:10 am I'm unvaguely quite aware Msr. Ladapo was a member of America's Frontline Doctors.

One of their founders was just convicted for participation in 1/6.
https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/nati ... 07e3c1b2a7

I certainly don't vote for people who make nutcases our Surgeon General. Yessirree bob. Granted, I'll admit, it's reason #863 I won't be voting for De Stupid. Besides the fact that his vaccine rollout in FL was not just imperfect, but fundamentally wrongheaded.
I’ll keep that in mind.

I need to register first.
gounion
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Re: Biden strengthens Buy American rules!

Post by gounion »

JoeMemphis wrote: Tue Mar 08, 2022 8:00 am I never said there was only one comorbidity. However we knew that the majority of people ending up in hospitals on ventilators were over 60, mostly obese and/or had other comorbidities. We knew that early on. All anyone had to do was ask a pulmonologist and they could tell you who was dying in their hospital. It wasn’t the 40 year old guy with no comorbidities. As I said all you need to do is to look at the CDC statistics. And I repeat when it came time to roll out the vaccine, it didn’t require a tricorder or a blood test the figure out who should be first in line.
You need to remember Omicron was killing younger people.

But none of it matters to you, you didn't think we needed to stop filling arenas for sports and entertainment. Who cares how many people got sick and died? There's money to be made, and that's all that matters, right, Joe?
bradman
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Re: Biden strengthens Buy American rules!

Post by bradman »

JoeMemphis wrote: Mon Mar 07, 2022 4:21 pm Depends on whose bad behavior. The employee or the employer. We made lots of mistakes in the pandemic. So if now POTUS want us to play nice and come together and not let the pandemic furthe divide us and everybody go back in to work, so let’s rehire those folks who weren’t comfortable getting the jab. It’s not like they were stealing or not performing their regular job duties, they refused to get a vaccination. If we can’t do that then I think the whole unity plea is kinda hollow. Just political showmanship.

{chuckle} A kumbaya moment, eh.

We made the first move. Covid mandates are being relaxed and rethought. Your move. When ya get a handle on the yahoos that like parading around Washington then, perhaps, we can talk about forgiveness.
I am not a member of any organized political party. I am a Democrat. [Will Rogers]
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ProfX
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Re: Biden strengthens Buy American rules!

Post by ProfX »

I guess that whole "politics stops at the water's edge" stuff is over - eh?

Like, we should unite behind our POTUS in a moment of foreign crisis? Hey - Glenn said it - one thing I didn't disagree with.

Should everybody who was fired for not being vaccinated be re-hired? As in many cases, those were private company decisions, or ones made by state and local government, Biden couldn't reverse everything even if he wanted to; not that I think he should try. Bottom line: SCOTUS pretty much stopped the Federal mandates cold, whether we agree with that or not, so almost nobody was fired because of a Federal mandate.

I encourage those who refused to get vaccinated but have now done so, to apply for new positions. Kumbaya. :D

I'm sure all 1400 in NYC who refused and got fired can find new work. Maybe driving trucks in circles around Washington DC. :lol:
"Don't believe every quote attributed to people on the Internet" -- Abraham Lincoln :D
JoeMemphis

Re: Biden strengthens Buy American rules!

Post by JoeMemphis »

bradman wrote: Tue Mar 08, 2022 11:20 am {chuckle} A kumbaya moment, eh.

We made the first move. Covid mandates are being relaxed and rethought. Your move. When ya get a handle on the yahoos that like parading around Washington then, perhaps, we can talk about forgiveness.
Not really a first move. Not when mayors and other elected officials don’t follow their own mandates. The government is lagging behind the public. They just “relaxed” rules/mandates no one liked and many didn’t follow.

Terminating people’s employment over the vaccine IMO was as silly as someone losing a job because they refused to get it. What happens next time? If we want people to go back to normal then rehire employees who were terminated solely due to the fact that they didn’t want to get a shot. JMHO.
gounion
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Re: Biden strengthens Buy American rules!

Post by gounion »

JoeMemphis wrote: Tue Mar 08, 2022 12:01 pm Not really a first move. Not when mayors and other elected officials don’t follow their own mandates. The government is lagging behind the public. They just “relaxed” rules/mandates no one liked and many didn’t follow.

Terminating people’s employment over the vaccine IMO was as silly as someone losing a job because they refused to get it. What happens next time? If we want people to go back to normal then rehire employees who were terminated solely due to the fact that they didn’t want to get a shot. JMHO.
If it's up to you, the next time, many more people die, because you say decisions need to be made to keep the economy booming, not on health and lives.
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ZoWie
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Re: Biden strengthens Buy American rules!

Post by ZoWie »

My problem with the Covid response started on day 1, when the Nooz spun the data coming out of government agencies to make it sound as if only people over age 65 would have any problems. Right off, there's the implicit absurdity of the idea that at midnight on the start of your 65th year on this planet, an automatic timer in your body goes off and enables the get-Covid bit.

It would have been better (and less ageist) advice if it had been tempered with common sense. Yes, you're old, more likely you'll end up in the hospital. That was indeed the clinical situation at the time due to all the other comorbidities associated with advancing age. Fine. Say so. "Those approaching or past their mid-60s need to take extra precautions, as they might have less ability to fight the virus." Don't set a magic bit on the 65th birthday.

I had been under the impression that ageism was on the wane, but it's sure on display here. So younger people carried on. They traveled. They congregated. They partied like it was 2019.

They got the Delta variant. That one loved fresh young meat. Cancel those summer plans.

OK, masks. Yeah, there was some initial bad advice here too. People were told that masks were not needed. This was based on the fact that the only widely available ones were scarce and best left to medical personnel who worked around the virus. Then later on, things changed, and suddenly masks were recommended for everyone. The lesser lights among us said anything changing that fast had to be BS and carried on as before.

By now, we have plenty of clinical data. The current idea is that masking is the most effective in curbing virus spread when done by people with no symptoms who might be shedding virus anyway. This happens with some diseases. Typhoid Mary is a cliche in this culture, so don't tell me that no one's heard of a carrier state.

But they were recommended for everyone because they also had some effectiveness for preventing new infections, and with both parties masked the chance of spread went down to something like 5%.

OK, N95/KN95. At first these were scarce. Therefore, everyone else was advised to wear a cloth mask, and leave the NIOSH spec PPE to health workers who were around the infection daily. These cloth masks helped, but each variant since has become more infectious. It's called evolution. The virus met more resistance, and evolved more communicable variants as a result. That's just simple natural selection. Therefore, in a changing world, the experts changed their guidance to favor full N95s on everyone. It didn't hurt that the supply had caught up and now anyone could order a box of 30. We have several.

Nowhere in any of this do I see a reason to conclude masks don't work.

What I do see is a need for more filtering of the BS that circulates freely in right wing media, and on the Internet. Most of the more bizarre behavior is based on political objection to anything that looks too much like government.
"We must remember that we cannot abandon the truth and remain a free nation." --Liz Cheney, Republican, 7/21/22
Motor City
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Re: Biden strengthens Buy American rules!

Post by Motor City »

JoeMemphis wrote: Mon Mar 07, 2022 12:42 pm Well we certainly don’t agree on the toxicity in most workplaces. By that aside, I never had a problem with folks who didn’t feel safe in the workplace working remotely or wearing a mask to protect themselves or getting a vaccination(s) to protect themselves. That always made sense to me. That was their right. But the flip side of that was forcing other workers to get vaccinated at risk of losing their job. I think both you and I agree that it would have been much better to educate and inform rather than mandate.

Now that this is all over and we are in an endemic phase, doesn’t it make sense to give those people their jobs back without loss of seniority. What purpose is served by punishing them for making a decision regarding their own health?
I dont know I just know that punishing people with the loss of job and security over anything and nothing at all is something thanks to the corporate model of employment administration that is taken extremely lightly and that society has become incredibly volatile and dangerous to live in for it. If regular folks could generate political speech in the same proportions that corporations can I think wed have a much different government and more diverse policies for employment in both the public and private sector that included workers and society best interests and balance.
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