The Critical Race Theory/so-called Cancel Culture Thread

[carmenjonze]

That's not the group I was referring to. They know why they say what they say, and their minds are made up. It's the other people, in this case those swing voters who were concerned about the poor performance of the educational system for whatever reason (covid being among them). The evidence shows that they responded to a sexy explanation for same that had everything going for it except the tiniest content of true information. It was the 2020s version of riding through the streets at night wearing hoods and carrying torches. We need better responses to such appeals to fear than trying to look detached and saying well, it doesn't matter what they tell kids in school.

So-called swing voters are basically synonymous with conservative whites, just as they were in the 90s-00s, which your whole argument is based in.

The argument itself is an argument from fear.

Thanksgiving is coming up, and I can guarantee it: nobody will have the nads to even respond to their Archie Bunker uncle prattling on at the dinner table about CRT and masks and etc.

Not one.

If there is a "we" here, we do not have to be afraid of these people, their perceptions, their insurrections, their so-called concerns or their fears. Being afraid of them, what they might do, how they might vote if we don't have the right "messaging" appeals is allowing them to run roughshod over school board meetings, libraries, the US Capitol, and the public square.

[carmenjonze]

If the jobsandtheeconony J.D. Vance hillbilly elegies crud wasn't bad enough 5 years ago, we already went through this in the 00s with all that "framing" nonsense. Because in the 00s, appealing to the supposed fears of backlashing conservative whites around "gay marriage" wasn't enough, either.

[carmenjonze]

The people wailing the loudest about so-called cancel culture are the ones who are actually canceling culture.

They are intimidated by and hostile to culture. Lest anyone think this anti-CRT wave is not directly linked to the anti-LGBTQ wave or that it's not the same people involved in both, read on.

A ‘war on books’: Conservatives push for audits of school libraries - LA Times

HOUSTON — During the last year, Mary Ellen Cuzela — concerned about students being indoctrinated about sex and “critical race theory” — successfully petitioned her suburban Houston school district of about 83,000 to remove two books from their libraries: The novel “Lawn Boy” by Jonathan Evison and the graphic novel “Losing the Girl” by MariNaomi.

Cuzela, a mother of three who works for the district as a substitute teacher, said she was encouraged by Republican Texas lawmakers’ focus on critical race theory, an academic framework for examining systemic racism — which is not taught in any U.S. public school — that she considers “Marxist ideology” and “anti-American.” She has a list of more than a dozen more books she wants removed from schools along Houston’s rapidly growing and diversifying Energy Corridor, home to some of the world’s major oil and gas companies.

“I don’t want to ban books. I don’t want to be a book burner. My goodness, no,” said Cuzela, 49, whose children have attended public school for years in Katy. “I’m not into censoring. That is not what this is about. We filter students’ internet access. We have keywords, trigger words, that we know people shouldn’t have access to as a minor. So why isn’t that same process in the school libraries?”

One of the books, “Lawn Boy,” refers to oral sex between boys, and the other, “Losing the Girl,” features LGBTQ characters.

Liberal parents have also pushed to remove books from schools in recent years: Burbank schools last year removed the classics “To Kill a Mockingbird” and “Of Mice and Men” after parents complained their depictions of race and racism were harmful to students (they were among the top banned books nationwide last year).

But the latest uproar over school libraries comes as conservatives attempt to ride a wave of “white backlash” among Trump supporters to victory in next year’s midterm election. The strategy appeared to work in the closely watched Virginia governor’s race Tuesday, where Republican newcomer Glenn Youngkin beat former Democrat Gov. Terry McAuliffe after promising to ban critical race theory in schools.

More in link.

[ZoWie]

Carmen, we're on the same page about this stuff and always will be.

I can't fix the history of this misbegotten country, or even the way it is taught. I wish I could. I wish I could do lots of things. I have learned that such wishes and $4.75 will fix me right up with a nice vanilla latte at Starbucks, or better yet (when you can find one) Coffee Bean & Tea Leaf.

Let's talk about how to fix the means by which people like us get information out to the few people who are open minded enough to actually have their votes changed by it.

[carmenjonze]

Let's talk about how to fix the means by which people like us get information out to the few people who are open minded enough to actually have their votes changed by it.

I would much rather focus on lifting up our own people and streghntening our vote, because our vote -- by that I mean minority, liberal voters, most especially Black and Latino voters -- is literally under attack by these same exact propagandistic forces.

Persuading the unpersuadable and trying to change irrational minds just to get conservative votes is a proven waste of effort and time. All we need to do is look at the past generation since the Ds freaking out and moving to the right because of Reagan.

Reagan Democrats, Obama Republicans, swing voters, MLK white moderates, these people are all cut from the same cloth and they are political poison. We don't need them.

[Libertas]

So-called swing voters are basically synonymous with conservative whites, just as they were in the 90s-00s, which your whole argument is based in.

The argument itself is an argument from fear.

Thanksgiving is coming up, and I can guarantee it: nobody will have the nads to even respond to their Archie Bunker uncle prattling on at the dinner table about CRT and masks and etc.

Not one.

If there is a "we" here, we do not have to be afraid of these people, their perceptions, their insurrections, their so-called concerns or their fears. Being afraid of them, what they might do, how they might vote if we don't have the right "messaging" appeals is allowing them to run roughshod over school board meetings, libraries, the US Capitol, and the public square.

Last paragraph, you should tweet that or something...wow

[carmenjonze]

Last paragraph, you should tweet that or something...wow

I just don't see where tasking the Democratic Party with what people are never going to do in their own lives, e.g. confront Aunt Harriet's racist, parroted anti-CRT propaganda at Thanksgiving, is going to do anything. And it's not just white people, either, though they've got the numbers. It's homophobic Cousin Morton raising his voice at everyone because Dave Chappelle is being cancelled . It's Mister Garcia freaking out about "kids today" using an x instead of an o or an a, frothing at the mouth just like the olds did in the 70s when HE started calling himself a Chicano. :problem: It's Mrs. Chan who thinks the Black man coming down the sidewalk is going to kill her when it's the white guy about to turn the corner who is about to call her a ...

But conservative and so-called moderate whites are just way too far gone. Unlike these other people above, they have had centuries of systems, institutions, educations, immigration policies, and public resources built for and around them to suppress all others, and they want it back. So they vote like they did in Virginia, and the country spends a whole week freaking out about it instead of looking at all the D wins, some of which are historic.

[ProfX]

Before McAuliffe made the CRT claim the claim should have been vetted. Take better care of the message when marketing to the average voter. Especially when it involves their kids.

Mr. Blue Dog,

Critical Race Theory is not taught in K-12 schools. Anywhere.

No one ever encounters it, likely even as an undergraduate at a university; in fact, you probably won't until you go to law school.

I am a real life university professor. We're all anonymous here and thus I won't go to the lengths of proving it to your or anybody else's satisfaction, but I am. I know of what I speak. I even work in the social sciences, so I really do know where it fits into the curriculum.

McAuliffe was not wrong about anything. The existence of a memo by one random school bureaucrat saying he thought some K-12 teachers could find ways to incorporate it into their teaching, which seems difficult to actually produce, and in any case haven't seen evidence it was IMPLEMENTED, well it proves what we in academia like to call, jack shit.

As far as what he said, well I view this as being what he meant. Yes, NASA is funded by the taxpayer. Yes, it should be accountable to the public. But no, final decisions on rocket design should not be left to random foam-spitters at some public meeting. I think public education works the same way. Parents do not get a veto on curriculum. The viewpoint of 30 angry riled up people at a school board meeting don't override the views of probably hundreds of parents elsewhere in the district who are not angry and worked up by astroturfers. Should not be how it works.

Could have put it better, but still.

[ProfX]

Not going to mince words with you. When it comes to leadership, if the community does not like what it’s getting, they have every right to make changes. That’s what elections are all about.

They also get to vote for school board, and it's definitely true they can vote unto school board know-nothings who reject evolution, a round Earth, or the germ theory.

That said, in my ideal world, the school board is made up of people with experience in education, making better, more thoughtful decisions about curriculum. Answerable to the public, but making decisions on - yeah, that's the word - expertise. Pedagogical and subject matter.

We want people to be involved in education. That’s what the teachers I know tell me year after year.

I suppose again it's a question of interpretation.

People should be involved in health care, both their own and public health, but just because 30 spittle flicking mad boys say doctors should be prescribing ivermectin at some public hearing, doesn't mean their views should PREVAIL.

[ZoWie]

Correct.

Saying CRT is the problem is like saying triple integrals are the problem. Both are specialized tools in advanced university curricula that do not really relate to local political issues at all. It's really an appeal to the tendency of many people to distrust anything they don't understand, or to believe the fake explanations offered by charismatic charlatans.

My only tool is media, so I talk about that a lot. We'll never save the world by calling out the Nooz on its BS, or exposing the anti-rationalism, fear mongering, and semiotic high-grounding abroad on the Internet. We might save some of the individuals in it, though, from continuing to vote against their own interest.

I'd rather do my own work than nothing at all.

[carmenjonze]

They also get to vote for school board, and it's definitely true they can vote unto school board know-nothings who reject evolution, a round Earth, or the germ theory.

That said, in my ideal world, the school board is made up of people with experience in education, making better, more thoughtful decisions about curriculum. Answerable to the public, but making decisions on - yeah, that's the word - expertise. Pedagogical and subject matter.



I suppose again it's a question of interpretation.

People should be involved in health care, both their own and public health, but just because 30 spittle flicking mad boys say doctors should be prescribing ivermectin at some public hearing, doesn't mean their views should PREVAIL.

The basic idea behind what JoeMemphis is saying is that prevailing policy is supposed to be based on what conservative whites want.

Anything else, and they'll backlash. The argument really doesn't go any deeper than this.

[carmenjonze]

Correct.

Saying CRT is the problem is like saying triple integrals are the problem. Both are specialized tools in advanced university curricula that do not really relate to local political issues at all. It's really an appeal to the tendency of many people to distrust anything they don't understand, or to believe the fake explanations offered by charismatic charlatans.

My only tool is media, so I talk about that a lot. We'll never save the world by calling out the Nooz on its BS, or exposing the anti-rationalism, fear mongering, and semiotic high-grounding abroad on the Internet. We might save some of the individuals in it, though, from continuing to vote against their own interest.

I'd rather do my own work than nothing at all.

IDK about anybody else but I have no intention of saving these people from themselves. I do intend to protect myself from them because as much and as often as they express these age-old racist, anti-LGBTQ fears about us coming for their daughters, they are literally -- literally -- coming after our trans daughters.

Countering their destructive ideologies is not for their sake. F. them.

[JoeMemphis]

They also get to vote for school board, and it's definitely true they can vote unto school board know-nothings who reject evolution, a round Earth, or the germ theory.

That said, in my ideal world, the school board is made up of people with experience in education, making better, more thoughtful decisions about curriculum. Answerable to the public, but making decisions on - yeah, that's the word - expertise. Pedagogical and subject matter.



I suppose again it's a question of interpretation.

People should be involved in health care, both their own and public health, but just because 30 spittle flicking mad boys say doctors should be prescribing ivermectin at some public hearing, doesn't mean their views should PREVAIL.

That’s why we have elections. That’s where people get heard. That’s how changes are made. Elections are not left to just the 30 or 40 people of whom you speak. It’s more broad than that. The same can be said for governor and/or other public offices.

But this isn’t health care. It isn’t rocket science. It’s public education. Most of us have been to school so must of us have some understanding of what that’s about. I’m not saying everyone is an expert but most of us do have some experience and some perspective. I don’t think anyone is arguing for flat earth. However in the current environment, they are concerned about how their kids are being taught in matters related to race. I think that’s a legitimate area of concern.

[carmenjonze]

It’s public education.

...

However in the current environment, they are concerned about how their kids are being taught in matters related to race. I think that’s a legitimate area of concern.

When's the last time you read any CRT?

[carmenjonze]

However in the current environment, they are concerned about how their kids are being taught in matters related to race. I think that’s a legitimate area of concern.

it's only "a legitimate area of concern" so long as the parents are ignorant, racist conservative whites.

This has a distinct history in Virginia, and all your posts on this topic since the old board are right in line with this ideology.

"MASSIVE RESISTANCE" - Equal Justice Initiative

Millions of white parents nationwide acted to deny Black children equal education by voting to close and defund public schools, transferring their children to private, white-only schools, and harassing and violently attacking Black students while their own children watched or participated.

Indeed, though Brown ruled that segregated schools harmed Black students and violated their rights as Americans, Brown II prioritized the rights and preferences of white parents by enabling delay. State legislatures passed bills to thwart desegregation through “freedom-of-choice plans, which allowed parents to choose among several schools; transfer options, which permitted parents to move their children out of integrated schools; and grade-a-year plans, which started desegregation in the first or twelfth grade and then expanded it to one additional grade every year.” 146

The "children" watching and participating then are the same 50-year olds shrieking today at school board members about masks and some book in the library with a gay character in it.

No wonder conservative whites want this history covered up. You guys keep repeating it in real time.

[Bludogdem]

Mr. Blue Dog,

Critical Race Theory is not taught in K-12 schools. Anywhere.

No one ever encounters it, likely even as an undergraduate at a university; in fact, you probably won't until you go to law school.

I am a real life university professor. We're all anonymous here and thus I won't go to the lengths of proving it to your or anybody else's satisfaction, but I am. I know of what I speak. I even work in the social sciences, so I really do know where it fits into the curriculum.

McAuliffe was not wrong about anything. The existence of a memo by one random school bureaucrat saying he thought some K-12 teachers could find ways to incorporate it into their teaching, which seems difficult to actually produce, and in any case haven't seen evidence it was IMPLEMENTED, well it proves what we in academia like to call, jack shit.

As far as what he said, well I view this as being what he meant. Yes, NASA is funded by the taxpayer. Yes, it should be accountable to the public. But no, final decisions on rocket design should not be left to random foam-spitters at some public meeting. I think public education works the same way. Parents do not get a veto on curriculum. The viewpoint of 30 angry riled up people at a school board meeting don't override the views of probably hundreds of parents elsewhere in the district who are not angry and worked up by astroturfers. Should not be how it works.

Could have put it better, but still.

Again, All that being so, the average voter isn’t sitting in the realm of academia doing in depth analysis. And they aren’t going to go looking for it. The average voter is influenced by perception. When you say there’s no CRT and then it shows up on the state education website there’s a problem. The average voter is going to perceive a lack of candor. Doesn’t matter if it’s being taught as a full blown class. Or not. The campaign made serious blunders. This is a marketing failure.

[carmenjonze]

When you say there’s no CRT and then it shows up on the state education website there’s a problem. Doesn’t matter if it’s being taught as a full blown class. Or not.

You guys have been primed to unquestioningly accept anti-civil rights propaganda your entire lives.

It's how you so easily fall for it, and why it's so easy for the Kochs and Tucker Carlsons and Christopher Rufos to take advantage of you.

[gounion]

Again, All that being so, the average voter isn’t sitting in the realm of academia doing in depth analysis. And they aren’t going to go looking for it. The average voter is influenced by perception. When you say there’s no CRT and then it shows up on the state education website there’s a problem. The average voter is going to perceive a lack of candor. Doesn’t matter if it’s being taught as a full blown class. Or not. The campaign made serious blunders. This is a marketing failure.

It's not on a website. It's all right-wing bullshit lies and made-up shit, which you are pretending is real. It plays on racist fears and hatred, and doesn't want actual history taught in our schools. The old Lost Cause brought up to date.

We know where you're coming from.

[ProfX]

We'll never save the world by calling out the Nooz on its BS, or exposing the anti-rationalism, fear mongering, and semiotic high-grounding abroad on the Internet.

I make no assumptions about anyone here, nor do I expect them to make them about me.

While I do agree just discussing stuff on our little small niche of the Internet doesn't change the world, it is hardly the sole way I communicate with people. Besides the fact I get to "indoctrinate" (ironies intended) 100s of youngkins every year.

I think there is some value in making sure we share and discuss accurate information with each other. Ideally, we should be taking said information and catapulting it in whatever ways we know how. JMHO: it's the main point of doing what we do.

Yes, I agree with your point about framing, emotional and psychological. However, personally, as I believe I belong to a Left whose roots are in the Enlightenment (its problematics exposed through critical theory, noted), as a Habermasian, I think we can't build convincing counter narratives without really understanding the world and its phenomena, then using that to build our narrative.

"The facts alone" may not persuade, but we surely have to start from them.

[carmenjonze]

This is a marketing failure.

Better marketing to white backlash needed.

:problem:

[ProfX]

The average voter is influenced by perception. When you say there’s no CRT and then it shows up on the state education website there’s a problem. The average voter is going to perceive a lack of candor.

Invoking "the average voter" like the "silent majority" is all fine and good. The bottom line though is reality is reality and facts do exist.

Let's go to PolitiFact.

Youngkin offers little proof critical race theory is in 'all' Virginia schools
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 ... e-theory-/

Critical race theory is being widely discussed by educators across Virginia. But there's a difference between educators learning about the theory and actually teaching it to students. On that front, Youngkin cites a collection of memos and seminars, but no evidence that critical race theory is being taught in each of the state’s 1,825 public schools.

Critical race theory is not mentioned in the state’s Standards of Learning. A growing list of localities say they do not teach it.

[snip][end]

No evidence is no evidence, and the factuality of the claim (including that Lane memo) is discussed and taken apart by Politifact.

An "average voter" can vote based on the facts, or not. Personally, I feel a responsibility that they should know what they are. While I agree with your point that people often vote based on their perceptions of reality rather than actual reality (see: criminal violence/homicide statistics, etc.), I still think a) it's better to act on correct perceptions of reality and b) I prefer to show people where those are.

Doesn’t matter if it’s being taught as a full blown class. Or not. The campaign made serious blunders. This is a marketing failure.

It's not a "class". It's not a "subject area". It is actually an outgrowth of Critical Legal Studies, and is essentially a theory about the legal and criminal justice system and the role of race in it. Again, even at a university, most folks will not encounter it outside of law school.

The weird thing, I've been telling this to Mr. Memphis for over a year, and you really do not have to take my word for it. I'd again cite Wikipedia but everybody whines it is user edited. OK fine. Go find a legal encyclopedia, go to the "C" section, and you will see everything I just said is absolutely true... it is so easy to check for oneself, but I guess it is better to whine angrily about things you don't know much about.

[Bludogdem]

I make no assumptions about anyone here, nor do I expect them to make them about me.

While I do agree just discussing stuff on our little small niche of the Internet doesn't change the world, it is hardly the sole way I communicate with people. Besides the fact I get to "indoctrinate" (ironies intended) 100s of youngkins every year.

I think there is some value in making sure we share and discuss accurate information with each other. Ideally, we should be taking said information and catapulting it in whatever ways we know how. JMHO: it's the main point of doing what we do.

Yes, I agree with your point about framing, emotional and psychological. However, personally, as I believe I belong to a Left whose roots are in the Enlightenment (its problematics exposed through critical theory, noted), as a Habermasian, I think we can't build convincing counter narratives without really understanding the world and its phenomena, then using that to build our narrative.

"The facts alone" may not persuade, but we surely have to start from them.

Point taken.

Actually, the facts alone may persuade if presented in the common parlance.

[carmenjonze]

More on how easy it is to manipulate already-propagandized confederates.

Right-wing operatives deploy massive network of fake local news sites to weaponize CRT - Judd Legum

What is West Nova News? And what does it have to do with Ian Prior, the former spokesperson for Attorney General Jeff Sessions? This is where things get interesting.

West Nova News appears to be a standard local news website. It is not. Rather it is part of a massive network of websites linked to "conservative businessman Brian Timpone." There are more than 1300 sites currently in the network, including at least 28 that operate in Virginia.

The sites in Virginia look identical and feature much of the same content. Most of the articles do not have a byline and are automatically generated.



Timpone has a long history of leveraging "low-cost automated story generation." A previous company run by Timpone, Journatic, "attracted national attention and outrage for faking bylines and quotes, and for plagiarism."

Journatic was rebranded Locality Labs and is now part of the Metric Media network, which operates the 1300+ local news sites. Metric Media boasts that it produces "over 5 million news articles every month." It has claimed to be "the largest producer of local news in the United States."

West Nova News and the other news sites in the network include no advertising and have no subscription fees. The Columbia Journalism Review linked funding for sites in the network to “the dark-money ATM of the conservative movement" and "a Catholic political advocacy group that launched a $9.7 million campaign in swing states against the Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden."

But donations aren't the only way that the Metric Media network funds its work. And this is where Ian Prior enters the story.

An investigation last year by the New York Times found that Metric Media sites operate on a "pay-to-play" system. In 2020, a freelance journalist was paid $22 to write an "article calling out Sara Gideon, a Democrat running for a hotly contested U.S. Senate seat in Maine, as a hypocrite." After the story was published in the Maine Business Daily, which is part of the Metric Media network, the freelancer received an email saying the "client" who ordered the article had requested she add "more detail."

The client was Ian Prior, who also ordered articles promoting Senator Lindsey Graham (R-SC) and Senator Roy Blunt (R-MO). Prior, a longtime Republican operative, previously worked for the Senate Leadership Fund, a Republican PAC which spent millions on ads to defeat Gideon.

[carmenjonze]

Point taken.

Actually, the facts alone may persuade if presented in the common parlance.

Common to whom? Propagandized conservative whites?

[Bludogdem]

Invoking "the average voter" like the "silent majority" is all fine and good. The bottom line though is reality is reality and facts do exist.

Let's go to PolitiFact.

Youngkin offers little proof critical race theory is in 'all' Virginia schools
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 ... e-theory-/

Critical race theory is being widely discussed by educators across Virginia. But there's a difference between educators learning about the theory and actually teaching it to students. On that front, Youngkin cites a collection of memos and seminars, but no evidence that critical race theory is being taught in each of the state’s 1,825 public schools.

Critical race theory is not mentioned in the state’s Standards of Learning. A growing list of localities say they do not teach it.

[snip][end]

No evidence is no evidence, and the factuality of the claim (including that Lane memo) is discussed and taken apart by Politifact.

An "average voter" can vote based on the facts, or not. Personally, I feel a responsibility that they should know what they are. While I agree with your point that people often vote based on their perceptions of reality rather than actual reality (see: criminal violence/homicide statistics, etc.), I still think a) it's better to act on correct perceptions of reality and b) I prefer to show people where those are.



It's not a "class". It's not a "subject area". It is actually an outgrowth of Critical Legal Studies, and is essentially a theory about the legal and criminal justice system and the role of race in it. Again, even at a university, most folks will not encounter it outside of law school.

The weird thing, I've been telling this to Mr. Memphis for over a year, and you really do not have to take my word for it. I'd again cite Wikipedia but everybody whines it is user edited. OK fine. Go find a legal encyclopedia, go to the "C" section, and you will see everything I just said is absolutely true... it is so easy to check for oneself, but I guess it is better to whine angrily about things you don't know much about.

I know it’s not taught. In Virginia they screwed the pooch in how it was handled. Common parlance.