American Women going to Mexico where the laws are friendly, to Women...

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Libertas
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American Women going to Mexico where the laws are friendly, to Women...

Post by Libertas »

https://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news/vi ... 2724677657

While many await the Supreme Court ruling that could possibly overturn Roe v. Wade, women in certain states with restrictive access to abortion are looking for new solutions. Some women are traveling across the border into Mexico to get to an abortion provider. Abortion clinics in Mexico say that there has been a dramatic increase in Americans travelling there for the procedure. NBC News’ Morgan Radford interviewed providers in Mexico who say that the majority of their clients are coming from Texas.
All cons want Women dead, any and all Women who insist on a right to their own body. Mexico and Canada is where it is safe for them, for now.
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gounion
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Re: American Women going to Mexico where the laws are friendly, to Women...

Post by gounion »

They could pass laws to restrict travel of pregnant women. They'll certainly try.
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Libertas
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Re: American Women going to Mexico where the laws are friendly, to Women...

Post by Libertas »

gounion wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 7:49 pm They could pass laws to restrict travel of pregnant women. They'll certainly try.
They will imprison or execute Women and doctors soon.
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ZoWie
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Re: American Women going to Mexico where the laws are friendly, to Women...

Post by ZoWie »

At some point, overreach will hurt them. It always does in politics.

The hard part is knowing where this happens.
Apathy leads to tyranny. There's no stasis on a moving train.
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ProfX
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Re: American Women going to Mexico where the laws are friendly, to Women...

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BTW, under international law, I don't see any way any U.S. state could attempt to sue or otherwise hold legally responsible Mexico, if a U.S. citizen goes there to have an abortion. I don't think they even have a legal leg to stand on to sue, say, New York, CA, New Mexico, or any other U.S. state if someone goes there to have an abortion, but then, as we've been noting, many certitudes about settled law are in question at the moment.

We may be very lucky that the border at the moment isn't ... "closed". In either direction.
"Don't believe every quote attributed to people on the Internet" -- Abraham Lincoln :D
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Libertas
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Re: American Women going to Mexico where the laws are friendly, to Women...

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Since cons, all of them (hint hint) will soon be supporting the arrest and imprisonment of Women who travel (how can you prove it is for an abortion) so all travel by all Women will be illegal in red states. Or at least they can be arrested for suspicion of the wrong travel.

This is again, NOT an exaggeration AND is supported by board cons by DEFINITION.

Right now all Women are in danger. 2nd class citizens. Now, not later, now.
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Toonces
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Re: American Women going to Mexico where the laws are friendly, to Women...

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Fortunately, right now, women have the Constitutional right to travel to another state so they cannot be stopped from traveling for an abortion. Of course, that doesn't stop the state from charging her for having an abortion.

So, will doctors be required to report pregnancies to the government? (Would that violate HIPAA?)
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Libertas
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Re: American Women going to Mexico where the laws are friendly, to Women...

Post by Libertas »

As Rachel is saying now, the right is a violent entity who kill people.
Oh, here they are trying to kill Women today


https://twitter.com/lyzl/status/1540491 ... 48r-sV3xiw


https://twitter.com/i/status/1540495065386303488
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Toonces
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Re: American Women going to Mexico where the laws are friendly, to Women...

Post by Toonces »

Follow up on my question. Since HIPAA is federal law, wouldn't they have control over what the doctor can report?
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Libertas
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Re: American Women going to Mexico where the laws are friendly, to Women...

Post by Libertas »

Toonces wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 8:37 pm Follow up on my question. Since HIPAA is federal law, wouldn't they have control over what the doctor can report?
A Woman's body has been under the control of the Woman since HIPPA has existed, so this question is a good one, who knows.

Women no longer have a legal right to their bodies unless a state says they do.

Oh, and all board cons are happy that Women have no rights now. By definition if they are cons, you see.
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Re: American Women going to Mexico where the laws are friendly, to Women...

Post by ProfX »

Toonces wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 7:46 pm Fortunately, right now, women have the Constitutional right to travel to another state so they cannot be stopped from traveling for an abortion. Of course, that doesn't stop the state from charging her for having an abortion.
Travel bans will probably fail legally. This happens to be one thing I do agree with Justice "Boof Bong" Kavanaugh on. Commerce Clause says no.

So here's the tricky question. If there are states that say anyone who facilitates an abortion can be sued (and there are), that presumably might include abortion clinics in other states. (As well as anybody who helped transport you across state lines.) Personally, of course, I hope this leads to that nonsense being overturned, but I count on nothing at this point.

Whether RU-486 will be available to all in all 50 states ... another tricky question. It is now. It's a federally legal, FDA-approved drug. But sort of. There's a patchwork of regulations over how it can be obtained and used. That same problem applies. If a pharmacy that sells it to you can be sued ...

So again here's the thing. If they are going to take the step of declaring abortion to be murder ... well it doesn't matter whether a murder is committed by a woman in Kalamazoo or Truth and Consequences ... eh? Murder is murder in all 50 states. IF they go that route.
So, will doctors be required to report pregnancies to the government? (Would that violate HIPAA?)
Bad news.

HIPAA won’t protect you, if prosecutors want your reproductive health records
https://www.statnews.com/2022/06/24/hip ... h-records/

HIPAA cannot protect you if there is a warrant or prosecutor's request for your health records. (Alas.)
"Don't believe every quote attributed to people on the Internet" -- Abraham Lincoln :D
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Toonces
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Re: American Women going to Mexico where the laws are friendly, to Women...

Post by Toonces »

ProfX wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 6:49 am
HIPAA cannot protect you if there is a warrant or prosecutor's request for your health records. (Alas.)
My question was more along the lines of if they're not required to tell the government, how would the government know the woman was pregnant?

If they're just going to suspect any woman who goes to the doctor of possibly being pregnant and, therefore, should come under investigation that is just going to hasten total dystopia.
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Re: American Women going to Mexico where the laws are friendly, to Women...

Post by ZoWie »

They want total dystopia.
Apathy leads to tyranny. There's no stasis on a moving train.
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Libertas
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Re: American Women going to Mexico where the laws are friendly, to Women...

Post by Libertas »

Toonces wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 12:57 pm My question was more along the lines of if they're not required to tell the government, how would the government know the woman was pregnant?

If they're just going to suspect any woman who goes to the doctor of possibly being pregnant and, therefore, should come under investigation that is just going to hasten total dystopia.
The right wants to be able to detain any person who is a minority of any kind at any time for any reason.
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ProfX
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Re: American Women going to Mexico where the laws are friendly, to Women...

Post by ProfX »

Toonces wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 12:57 pm My question was more along the lines of if they're not required to tell the government, how would the government know the woman was pregnant?

If they're just going to suspect any woman who goes to the doctor of possibly being pregnant and, therefore, should come under investigation that is just going to hasten total dystopia.
Yeah. Want to know how bad it can get?

Salvadoran women, jailed for decades for miscarriages, stillbirths, warn the U.S. about abortion bans
“This is the reality that we have lived, and I am not alone,” said Teodora del Carmen Vásquez, who ended up serving more than 10 years for what she always insisted was a stillbirth.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/sal ... -rcna33035

[snip]

The nightmare that followed is common in El Salvador, a heavily Catholic country where abortion is banned under all circumstances and even women who suffer miscarriages and stillbirths are sometimes accused of killing their babies and sentenced to years or even decades in prison.

When Vásquez regained consciousness, she had lost her nearly full-term fetus. Instead of an ambulance, officers drove her in the bed of a pickup through heavy rain to a police station. There she was arrested on suspicion of violating El Salvador’s abortion law, one of the world’s strictest. Fearing she could die, authorities eventually rushed her to a hospital, where she was chained by her left foot to a gurney. She was prosecuted, convicted and given 30 years in prison for aggravated homicide.

“This is the reality that we have lived, and I am not alone,” said Vásquez, who ended up serving more than 10 years for what she has always said was a stillbirth. “Any woman who arrives to jail accused of having an abortion is seen as the most evil, heartless being.”

“From the moment we get pregnant, we become incubators,” said Vásquez, who was freed in 2018 after her sentence was commuted. “We lose our rights because the only possibility that we have of a life is taking care of the product inside us. It’s violence against us.”

[snip]

Some anti-abortion leaders in the U.S. say they oppose prosecuting women who have abortions, but others think differently. Louisiana legislators unsuccessfully pushed a bill this year that would have allowed such prosecutions, for example, and Tom Ascol, a top contender to become the Southern Baptist Convention’s next president, favors classifying the procedure as homicide.

[snip]

Today it is one of four countries in the Western Hemisphere with total bans — but it stands out for its aggressive prosecutions. While abortion carries a two- to eight-year prison sentence, dozens of women have, like Vásquez, been convicted of aggravated homicide, punishable by 30 years behind bars.

Overall, El Salvador has prosecuted at least 181 women who experienced obstetric emergencies in the past two decades, according to the Citizen Group for the Decriminalization of Abortion, which has been working to win freedom for such women since 2009. At least 65 imprisoned women have been released with the help of the organization and its allies.

[snip]

El Salvador expects doctors and nurses to report suspected abortions under threat of prosecution, so women who show up at hospitals following miscarriages or botched abortions are sometimes turned over for investigation.

Prosecution and punishment overwhelmingly fall on poor, young women who lack sufficient access to medical services and cannot afford to travel overseas for an abortion or pay for good legal defense if they run afoul of the law. Sometimes they are victims of rape, in a country with a high incidence of that crime.


[snip]

Another woman, Karen, was 21 and pregnant when she fainted alone in her grandmother’s home. She woke up handcuffed to a hospital gurney and lost the pregnancy. A police interrogation led to an aggravated homicide conviction in 2015 and a 30-year prison sentence.

[snip][end]

In El Salvador, every miscarriage or stillbirth can - and usually does - become a crime scene. Women are being arrested for their pregnancies terminating, whether that had anything to do with their actions or not. When they lose a pregnancy, ES seems to see a presumption of guilt.

Tell me we're not heading there. I wish we weren't. It sure looks to me like we are. Yeah, dystopia. :|
"Don't believe every quote attributed to people on the Internet" -- Abraham Lincoln :D
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