It’s time to talk to Republicans/independents

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Libertas
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It’s time to talk to Republicans/independents

Post by Libertas »

Who can be reasoned with as to women’s rights, gay rights etc.

Most cannot be reasoned with or talked to like the ones on this board, but some can because I’ve had that experience, and it is life and death now.

Especially though it is time to talk to that one hundred million people who saw no reason to vote in 2020 who have to vote now.

All of our lives depend on it, the actual life of the women on this board depends on it tomorrow.

Not white con racists. Fuck them.

PS

Right now I’m certain groups like proud boys and other Trump supporting Republicans are planning to do violence against all women and doctors and abortion clinics in blue states, so please try and find out a way in your local area to protect them, I know I’m going to look into it.


PSS

We heard the phrase "rule of law" thousands of times when the Clinton's were accused of making a $3000 profit on a land deal
We heard the phrase "rule of law" when Bill Clinton was accused of lying about a blowjob.

We saw an orchestrated and violent insurrection and have not heard that phrase once. :twisted:
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Re: It’s time to talk to Republicans/independents

Post by ZoWie »

Don't stop there, they organized a coup d'etat that only failed because some Republicans still obeyed their oaths to the Constitution. We can't count on getting that lucky again.

The right knows how to make its own luck. It's not rocket science, as they say. It's just one of those apathy vs fanaticism things. Fanaticism wins every time. It's the apathy that has to go. Replace it with commitment. The only way to fight this incarnation of the white Christian ethnic purity crowd that's been a problem here since the 1600s is to actively resist it, and no I don't mean by posting on social media and getting doxxed and receiving 500 anonymous death threats. I mean a real resistance like in France in WWII only not that intense. We don't need to blow up trains and bridges. Not anytime soon, at least. We only need to counter the lies, whacko theories, and filth that pass for discourse right now. We need to stop getting bored with politics, and stop lapsing back into late 20th century apathy and self-infatuation. It has to be clearly understood that the majority in the US, which does still include a lot of Republicans, is no longer putting up with those who would turn our country into a white theocracy.

To put Libertas at ease, no, I would not oppose meeting the gun threats with armed resistance, if it comes to that. The other side has certainly made it easy to acquire guns and training. But we're not there.... yet. We're still at the Ghandi passive resistance stage, this year anyway. This can change, and often has in countries like the United States, which after all was built over the dead bodies of the indigenous, the enslaved, and the exploited. But it's not the case, this year anyway. We've just lost our unity and resolve.

Many eras mandate resistance. What's that curse, may you live in interesting times? Sometimes people rise to the occasion. Other times they don't. If Americans don't, then we will absolutely definitely without any doubt whatsoever transition to something a lot like a slightly more evangelical version of Russia. There will be fake elections or no elections at all, rule by a hereditary clique of lily-white gangster oligarchs from the billionaire class, and daily news stories about people who criticize the status quo coming up dead in the street or from nerve agent on their doorknobs.

Unfortunately we're the generation that has been given the unfortunate timing of having to be the one stopping this otherwise guaranteed outcome of the current struggle. May we have the resolve to meet the occasion that is forced upon us.
"We must remember that we cannot abandon the truth and remain a free nation." --Liz Cheney, Republican, 7/21/22
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Re: It’s time to talk to Republicans/independents

Post by Libertas »

ZoWie wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 4:48 pm Don't stop there, they organized a coup d'etat that only failed because some Republicans still obeyed their oaths to the Constitution. We can't count on getting that lucky again.

The right knows how to make its own luck. It's not rocket science, as they say. It's just one of those apathy vs fanaticism things. Fanaticism wins every time. It's the apathy that has to go. Replace it with commitment. The only way to fight this incarnation of the white Christian ethnic purity crowd that's been a problem here since the 1600s is to actively resist it, and no I don't mean by posting on social media and getting doxxed and receiving 500 anonymous death threats. I mean a real resistance like in France in WWII only not that intense. We don't need to blow up trains and bridges. Not anytime soon, at least. We only need to counter the lies, whacko theories, and filth that pass for discourse right now. We need to stop getting bored with politics, and stop lapsing back into late 20th century apathy and self-infatuation. It has to be clearly understood that the majority in the US, which does still include a lot of Republicans, is no longer putting up with those who would turn our country into a white theocracy.

To put Libertas at ease, no, I would not oppose meeting the gun threats with armed resistance, if it comes to that. The other side has certainly made it easy to acquire guns and training. But we're not there.... yet. We're still at the Ghandi passive resistance stage, this year anyway. This can change, and often has in countries like the United States, which after all was built over the dead bodies of the indigenous, the enslaved, and the exploited. But it's not the case, this year anyway. We've just lost our unity and resolve.

Many eras mandate resistance. What's that curse, may you live in interesting times? Sometimes people rise to the occasion. Other times they don't. If Americans don't, then we will absolutely definitely without any doubt whatsoever transition to something a lot like a slightly more evangelical version of Russia. There will be fake elections or no elections at all, rule by a hereditary clique of lily-white gangster oligarchs from the billionaire class, and daily news stories about people who criticize the status quo coming up dead in the street or from nerve agent on their doorknobs.

Unfortunately we're the generation that has been given the unfortunate timing of having to be the one stopping this otherwise guaranteed outcome of the current struggle. May we have the resolve to meet the occasion that is forced upon us.
What do we do when Oklahoma puts a Woman in prison for 10 years for getting healthcare as they have now promised to do? Nothing? I am not saying you are saying that, but if we obey their law, we do NOTHING :twisted:
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Re: It’s time to talk to Republicans/independents

Post by ZoWie »

Violence won't change anything in that matter. There needs to be a thorough examination of the situation when and if it happens, and appropriate measures can then be taken. A lot can happen if people think rationally and bravely, then do what they have to do. An Underground Railroad? The situation will dictate the response.

Don't forget the incredible bravery of the people who smuggled escaped slaves all the way to Canada. A resistance does what it has to do.

Your original question regarded talking to people. That's part of any political action. It's where the rubber and road meet in many cases. The loons and whitenats are beyond reach but the center isn't as long as they are treated with simple human respect and an open mind. When the left forgets that simple fact, the left loses.
"We must remember that we cannot abandon the truth and remain a free nation." --Liz Cheney, Republican, 7/21/22
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Re: It’s time to talk to Republicans/independents

Post by carmenjonze »

Can’t be trusted.
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Re: It’s time to talk to Republicans/independents

Post by ZoWie »

Don't need to win the whole center. Need to break the information stranglehold which makes it right now almost completely someone else's turf. Personally, I don't trust the typical under-educated American to hold any belief longer than a year or two. They consider politics a distraction.
"We must remember that we cannot abandon the truth and remain a free nation." --Liz Cheney, Republican, 7/21/22
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Re: It’s time to talk to Republicans/independents

Post by carmenjonze »

ZoWie wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:27 pm Don't need to win the whole center. Need to break the information stranglehold which makes it right now almost completely someone else's turf. Personally, I don't trust the typical under-educated American to hold any belief longer than a year or two. They consider politics a distraction.
We don't need Republicans or so-called independents. F. them.

The D. party was not transformed in the mid-60s by appealing to conservatives or so-called independents. MLK was right about these very people being a willing impediment to the forward movement of this country. It was changed through undergirding our own side. Even a Dixiecrat-adjacent bigot like LBJ figured that out.

Conservative whites killed people over it. Despite that, the CRA of 1965 was enacted. Yes, it was gutted 7 years ago. But what is needed is a focus on voter registration of our own people, not these cons and con-adjacents. Today, that includes rural voters, city voters with limited access, Black, Latino, Native, and Asian-American voters who haven't gone whackodoodle rightwing (which is the vast majority of Black voters, and a majority of Native, Asian-American, and Latino voters.)

We have the numbers. They don't. It's why they're so mad to begin with. So f. them.
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Re: It’s time to talk to Republicans/independents

Post by ZoWie »

Agreed that the problem is getting our people, who very well might constitute a majority, to actually mark their ballots and submit them. Since the Republican Party is gerrymandering districts, and wiping out early and mail voting even faster than it's wiping out women's rights, this will be a formidable task in some states. I suggest that we begin planning now. There is a lot of GOTV work and consciousness raising ahead.
"We must remember that we cannot abandon the truth and remain a free nation." --Liz Cheney, Republican, 7/21/22
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Re: It’s time to talk to Republicans/independents

Post by carmenjonze »

Professor Darren Hutchinson
@dissentingj

DEM STATES
Do something: state edition. We could have this nationwide with large Dem majority in Congress.

1. NY - already had among the most liberal abortion law in nation; passed 6 more bills since leaked opinion. This is what Dem majority can do.


2. New Jersey - codified abortion rights in January. Dem majorities accomplish things.


3. Colorado made abortion a fundamental right earlier this year. Please note -- all of these laws were basically passed by dems. leg.colorado.gov/bills/hb22-1279
I will add more later


4. California - already had (probably) strongest abortion protection in nation. Passed bill that immunizes people who assist out-of-state abortion seekers. ALSO - DEM legislature introduced CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT protecting abortion rights.


5. Oregon. NO new legislation here, but the state doesn't need anymore. It has a very liberal law on abortion; OREGON DEMS codified abortion rights in 2017.


6. Washington (yes, another DEM state)
DEMS in Washington launched a voter initiative to codify abortion rights in 1991!!!! They are set.

7. West Coast compact! Dem governors in Cal, Ore, and Wash have entered into an agreement to strengthen and protect access to abortion, ESPECIALLY for people who will inevitably travel to those states for abortion services.
THIS IS WHAT DEM MAJORITIES DO
gov.ca.gov/wp-content/upl…


8. Nevada -- ANOTHER DEM STATE - already has abortion rights codified. It follows the standard in Roe.


9. New Mexico -- another DEM STATE. In the past few years, the Dem legislature and governor have lifted most restrictions regarding abortion from state law. Abortion advocates rate it as a safe and legal state.


10. Minnesota - DEM STATE. IN 1995, State Supreme Court held that state constitution protects right to abortion -- and prohibits state from banning use of state funds for abortion services.


11. Illinois -- in 2019, Dem legislature codified right to abortion.


12. Maryland - of course, this blue state codified abortion rights 30 years ago, by voter initiative.


13. Connecticut codified abortion rights 30 yrs ago. This yr, CT passed a law protecting people traveling to CT to receive an abortion and allows "nurses, midwives, and physician assistants to provide abortions in the first 12 weeks of pregnancy.


14. Massachusetts -- already had broad abortion rights, including public funding. The Republican governor in this blue state issued an executive order protecting abortion clinics and patients.


15. Vermont- Blue Bernieland codified abortion as a fundamental right in 2019.


16. Rhode Island - blue RI codified Roe in 2019


17. DC deep blue DC has protected abortion rights for a very long time.


18. Virginia - now that VA is divided (split legislature, Repub gov), the status of abortion is up in the air. The state has liberal abortion laws, but the REPUBLICAN governor indicated he wants to impose restrictions limiting abortion to 15 weeks.


This thread is why many of us say PLEASE vote for Dems. Those who pay attention know what Dems can do when they control legislatures. You are blaming congressional inaction on Dems, rather than the highly divided nature of Congress. Creating a strong Dem Congress is best strategy

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1541 ... 34245.html
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Re: It’s time to talk to Republicans/independents

Post by Libertas »

We dont need them as long as we can get the vote out, the 100 million who last time saw no reason to vote, has to show up.

There was a poster on DU who had this long list of MUSTS for any democrat to campaign on and if ONE of them was not included in the campaign they were saying they would not vote for them...I SCREAMED at that person...FUCK

BTW I know democrats vote, for the most part...but that 100 million most are not identified as anything I dont think.
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Re: It’s time to talk to Republicans/independents

Post by carmenjonze »

Libertas wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 7:24 pm We dont need them as long as we can get the vote out, the 100 million who last time saw no reason to vote, has to show up.

There was a poster on DU who had this long list of MUSTS for any democrat to campaign on and if ONE of them was not included in the campaign they were saying they would not vote for them...I SCREAMED at that person...FUCK

BTW I know democrats vote, for the most part...but that 100 million most are not identified as anything I dont think.
We don't need them, at all.

They are a knee on the neck.

ETA: well, let me speak for myself. I do not need them, at all. They are a knee on my neck.
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Re: It’s time to talk to Republicans/independents

Post by Libertas »

carmenjonze wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 9:56 pm We don't need them, at all.

They are a knee on the neck.

ETA: well, let me speak for myself. I do not need them, at all. They are a knee on my neck.
You are right. I see now I added the "as long as we" and it wasnt necessary.

Caller Stephanie MIller says have thousands of Women show up in police stations in red states all at once and say "I had an abortion, punish me now."

Stephanie liked the idea but my first thought was easy for him to say. But the point was direct action that would accomplish something.
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Re: It’s time to talk to Republicans/independents

Post by ZoWie »

Direct action tends to fill up the jails with political prisoners. It has been successful in causing instability and loss of faith in authority if enough people do it that the state is forced to take questionably legal actions like filling up stadiums with detainees. It requires jail solidarity* and in general is a pretty grim process. It's far from the romantic notions in folk songs and labor movement ballads.

If it works, it pretty much stops the government from doing much of anything except feeding and housing the detained. That stops a lot of the economy and generally makes the pandemic look like a minor incident. Given the current public health situation, it would probably also make a major incident that is part of the pandemic.

I personally consider it the last resort before general strikes with strikers taking to the streets, which are usually the final step before actual revolution. There's no good way to do it which doesn't involve the other side calling out young, scared troops who remain loyal, and these soldiers and/or self-appointed paramilitaries have a way of panicking and shooting people.

It happened a few times during US labor struggles, when union members did civil disobedience and filled up the detention system. There were quite a few high profile casualties that got songs written about them. Like the squads of company thugs in that era, today I'm sure all those right wing "citizen militias" would find it an excuse to use all those semi-auto rifles they like to wave around. It's pretty nasty stuff, and I'm not sure the present generation of Americans is up to it.

In conclusion, I think it's a step that does not warrant taking, nor would it work in today's situation. I can't advocate making thousands of dead bodies and/or dying myself for a less than 500-year cause.


----
* "We're in for you, you're out for us...."
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Re: It’s time to talk to Republicans/independents

Post by Glennfs »

Libertas wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 6:26 pm Who can be reasoned with as to women’s rights, gay rights etc.

Most cannot be reasoned with or talked to like the ones on this board, but some can because I’ve had that experience, and it is life and death now.

Especially though it is time to talk to that one hundred million people who saw no reason to vote in 2020 who have to vote now.

All of our lives depend on it, the actual life of the women on this board depends on it tomorrow.

Not white con racists. Fuck them.

PS

Right now I’m certain groups like proud boys and other Trump supporting Republicans are planning to do violence against all women and doctors and abortion clinics in blue states, so please try and find out a way in your local area to protect them, I know I’m going to look into it.


PSS

We heard the phrase "rule of law" thousands of times when the Clinton's were accused of making a $3000 profit on a land deal
We heard the phrase "rule of law" when Bill Clinton was accused of lying about a blowjob.

We saw an orchestrated and violent insurrection and have not heard that phrase once. :twisted:
It isn't about individual issues. Most Republicans are pro abortion to one degree or another.
What it is about is the terrible job Biden and the democratic party is currently doing.
Inflation
Oil crisis
Border crisis
Gas prices
There is not one thing currently that the Biden administration is doing well.

That is the problem. While progressives are rightfully upset about current court rulings. The majority of the country are more worried about the price of gas and groceries.
Which is a big reason why Biden's approval numbers are below where trump's were.
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Re: It’s time to talk to Republicans/independents

Post by gounion »

Glennfs wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 3:10 pm It isn't about individual issues. Most Republicans are pro abortion to one degree or another.
What it is about is the terrible job Biden and the democratic party is currently doing.
Inflation
Oil crisis
Border crisis
Gas prices
There is not one thing currently that the Biden administration is doing well.

That is the problem. While progressives are rightfully upset about current court rulings. The majority of the country are more worried about the price of gas and groceries.
Which is a big reason why Biden's approval numbers are below where trump's were.
And if the GOP wins in November, they won't do anything about any of these things. And if they win in 2024, they won't do anything and will instead blame the Dems for it.
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Re: It’s time to talk to Republicans/independents

Post by Glennfs »

gounion wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 3:11 pm And if the GOP wins in November, they won't do anything about any of these things. And if they win in 2024, they won't do anything and will instead blame the Dems for it.
So you are saying they will do exactly what the democratic party is currently doing.
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Re: It’s time to talk to Republicans/independents

Post by gounion »

Glennfs wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 3:12 pm So you are saying they will do exactly what the democratic party is currently doing.
They won't do anything. They never do. They just blame Dems. All they want to do is to end gay marriage.
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Re: It’s time to talk to Republicans/independents

Post by Glennfs »

gounion wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 3:14 pm They won't do anything. They never do. They just blame Dems. All they want to do is to end gay marriage.
Name me something that the Biden administration is currently doing well.
Rolling out the vaccine is not currently and the only thing they have done well since taking office.
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Re: It’s time to talk to Republicans/independents

Post by gounion »

Glennfs wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 3:38 pm Name me something that the Biden administration is currently doing well.
Rolling out the vaccine is not currently and the only thing they have done well since taking office.
What will your side do? Apart from immediately impeaching the President and AG and ending gay marriage?
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Re: It’s time to talk to Republicans/independents

Post by Libertas »

https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/ar ... ng-economy

Biden’s Deceptively Strong Economy
The job market is growing, unemployment is falling, wages are rising. But with gas prices and inflation still high, the voting public isn't feeling it.
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Re: It’s time to talk to Republicans/independents

Post by Drak »

Glennfs wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 3:38 pm Name me something that the Biden administration is currently doing well.
Rolling out the vaccine is not currently and the only thing they have done well since taking office.
Your party attempted a violent coup and is still engaged. And they're attempting to cover it up. But you'll still vote for them while blaming Biden for the things they lie to you about. You know, like world wide high gas prices and world wide inflation. All the while not presenting any sort of platform or plan.
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Re: It’s time to talk to Republicans/independents

Post by Libertas »

Biden’s accomplishments this year include:

The $1.9 trillion Covid relief deal.
The $1 trillion bipartisan infrastructure bill.
Getting 72 percent of American adults fully vaccinated.
Getting federal judges appointed and confirmed.
An economy where the unemployment rate has dropped to 4.2 percent.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/meet-t ... s-n1286092
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Re: It’s time to talk to Republicans/independents

Post by Libertas »

https://centraljersey.com/2022/03/17/pr ... in-office/


President Biden has many accomplishments in office

Thank goodness Joe Biden has been at the helm during this terribly difficult time since he
became our president.

Despite some bad press, he inherited a broken economy with the daily death toll from the global pandemic at an all-time high. Here are just a few examples of what he has done for our country so far:

• Biden signed a $1.2 trillion bipartisan infrastructure package that passed with 13
Republicans who voted with the Democrats in favor of the bill.

This package increases investment in roads and bridges, renovates ports and public transportation, expands broadband access and replaces every lead pipe in the United States, among other initiatives. This bill brings jobs, jobs and more jobs, and it begins to rebuild our long-neglected infrastructure.

• Biden signed a $1.9 trillion COVID-19 relief package in March 2021 that included up to
$1,400 per person to financially struggling Americans, extended unemployment support
and provided billions of dollars to help schools, colleges and universities reopen.

• Biden put in place a $20 billion vaccination program to fight COVID. While 1% of the U.S.
population was vaccinated when Biden came into office, 74% of Americans – 249 million
Americans – have received at least one vaccine dose.

• Biden expanded access to affordable health care for five million Americans.

• Under Joe Biden, unemployment dropped to 3.9%; under Donald Trump, unemployment was 6.3%.

• 6,000,000 jobs have been created already.

• Jobless claims are the lowest since 1969.
fuck off you lying, stupid cons
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Re: It’s time to talk to Republicans/independents

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Glennfs wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 3:10 pm What it is about is the terrible job Biden and the democratic party is currently doing.
Inflation
Oil crisis
Border crisis
Gas prices
Uh. Are the two things in bold actually separate things? And in theory, one could simply put higher gas prices under 'inflation," too.

Finally. What crisis at the border? To be clear, I'm not denying that people continue to cross the U.S.-Mexico border without documents. They did and have for the last few decades. If it wasn't a crisis then, I don't get why we have a crisis now.
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Re: It’s time to talk to Republicans/independents

Post by Libertas »

Wait for CRISIS at the border stories the closer we get to Nov.
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