Way to go Joe

News and events of the day
JoeMemphis

Re: Way to go Joe

Post by JoeMemphis »

gounion wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 11:44 am So even though YOUR party was the one in charge, all you want to do is blame the Dems. You denounce what happened in the harshest of terms “setting your house on fire” but you will happily vote for the Republicans that led the charge.

That’s about the vilest of hypocrisy.
Learn to read.
User avatar
ProfX
Posts: 4087
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2021 3:15 pm
Location: Earth

Re: Way to go Joe

Post by ProfX »

JoeMemphis wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 11:56 am Oh please. You and I both know where the “guidance” was coming from.
The CDC is not a partisan agency. Anthony Fauci, (different agency) BTW, was appointed by Ronald Reagan, a Republican. Bottom line, when the virus hit, there were officials there appointed by both parties and many administrations. Fact.

I know what you believe, Joe. It wasn't Democrats telling them what to recommend. It was them choosing recommendations based on data and knowledge and what other countries were doing. Did they make mistakes because they were wrong early on, make some wrong calls? Yep. Absolutely. There was uncertainty about airborne transmission, surface transmission, many other things were unknown, after all it WAS a novel virus. But as I keep saying, the key in science is to learn from new findings, update guidance based on new information, and IMHO they did.
But the effect was that those policies were in fact supported lock, stock and barrel by many of the folks who now blame the prior administration for the resulting downturn in the economy and want to take credit for the rebound coming out of the pandemic.
Can't speak for anybody but me, again; I blame the economic downturn on the pandemic itself - and how it affected this planet, not just this country. Now BTW Trump did have some daft economic policies related to trade and taxation and so forth which could be critiqued, but I don't think they were the primary cause. How great the economy was prior to the pandemic under Trump - BTW, that too is oversold, but I digress.
But let’s not pretend the guidance coming from the CDC and the WH was not pushing for restrictive measures.
I'm not going to dispute the Biden WH recommended them. Thing is, they weren't in power until Jan of 2021.

As for the CDC, yeah, I know what they were recommending under Trump, and then under Biden. (Didn't change, except for evolving due to changing waves of the virus and new data. Also changing levels of domestic supplies.)
Let’s not pretend that members of both parties pushed those policies and pushed for the emergency spending.
Which "emergency spending" are you talking about? If you are talking about the CARES Act, passed by Congress in 2020 under Trump, which established the PPP Loans program, BTW, that passed the Senate 96-0 and the House 419-6 ... about as bipartisan as it gets in DC.
Those jobs were recovered jobs. Not created jobs.
That cannot be true (at least not wholly), as there were many businesses (large & small) that closed permanently during the pandemic, and never reopened.

They can't have given back anybody their jobs, as they ceased to exist.
"Don't believe every quote attributed to people on the Internet" -- Abraham Lincoln :D
gounion
Posts: 17051
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:59 pm

Re: Way to go Joe

Post by gounion »

JoeMemphis wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 11:58 am Learn to read.
You are the one that needs a dictionary. Of course, you were unable to rebut anything I said.
User avatar
Drak
Posts: 4493
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 3:02 pm

Re: Way to go Joe

Post by Drak »

Glennfs wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 8:02 pm Let's review Memphis is giving opinion and ideas. Drak is reacting emotionally. Now I am sure if inflation was 2pct and the economy thriving we would be hearing Biden Biden Biden from every liberal here. As opposed to it isn't his fault in any way shape manner or form
Contrary to your delusional beliefs, you offer zero objectivity. You only come here to parrot MAGA memes like “Bidenflation” with no understanding about significant factors contributing to it outside Biden’s control, or what’s happening world wide. You and Joe want to claim the buck stops with the president and blame Biden for world wide inflation and high gas prices but refuse to give him credit when gas prices fall or for historically low unemployment. And you certainly didn’t care when the economy was obliterated under the last administration. GTFO.
"Some of those that work forces,
Are the same that burn crosses"

- Rage Against the Machine
gounion
Posts: 17051
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:59 pm

Re: Way to go Joe

Post by gounion »

JoeMemphis wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 11:56 am Oh please. You and I both know where the “guidance” was coming from. And I never said it was all one party. But the effect was that those policies were in fact supported lock, stock and barrel by many of the folks who now blame the prior administration for the resulting downturn in the economy and want to take credit for the rebound coming out of the pandemic. I do agree with you that it was mostly fear based.


But let’s not pretend the guidance coming from the CDC and the WH was not pushing for restrictive measures. Let’s not pretend that members of both parties pushed those policies and pushed for the emergency spending. So those policies idled 20 to 30 percent of the workforce and the rebound post pandemic isn’t because an administration created jobs. Those jobs were recovered jobs. Not created jobs. Also this so called deficit reduction is a bit of a farce. The deficit is down not because the new administration is efficient and frugal but because we are no longer funding the trillions in emergency spending. We all know that the administration would be spending much more were it not for 2 Dem senators. So to act like the admin is some kind of deficit hawk is laughable.
To act like the GOP is any different is what is laughable. You are going to vote for people that voted all of that, plus they are anti-choice and anti-gay and you don’t care. So for all your talk, you are fine with it all as long as they have that (R) next to their name.
JoeMemphis

Re: Way to go Joe

Post by JoeMemphis »

ProfX wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 12:13 pm The CDC is not a partisan agency. Anthony Fauci, (different agency) BTW, was appointed by Ronald Reagan, a Republican. Bottom line, when the virus hit, there were officials there appointed by both parties and many administrations. Fact.

I know what you believe, Joe. It wasn't Democrats telling them what to recommend. It was them choosing recommendations based on data and knowledge and what other countries were doing. Did they make mistakes because they were wrong early on, make some wrong calls? Yep. Absolutely. There was uncertainty about airborne transmission, surface transmission, many other things were unknown, after all it WAS a novel virus. But as I keep saying, the key in science is to learn from new findings, update guidance based on new information, and IMHO they did.



Can't speak for anybody but me, again; I blame the economic downturn on the pandemic itself - and how it affected this planet, not just this country. Now BTW Trump did have some daft economic policies related to trade and taxation and so forth which could be critiqued, but I don't think they were the primary cause. How great the economy was prior to the pandemic under Trump - BTW, that too is oversold, but I digress.



I'm not going to dispute the Biden WH recommended them. Thing is, they weren't in power until Jan of 2021.

As for the CDC, yeah, I know what they were recommending under Trump, and then under Biden. (Didn't change, except for evolving due to changing waves of the virus and new data. Also changing levels of domestic supplies.)



Which "emergency spending" are you talking about? If you are talking about the CARES Act, passed by Congress in 2020 under Trump, which established the PPP Loans program, BTW, that passed the Senate 96-0 and the House 419-6 ... about as bipartisan as it gets in DC.



That cannot be true (at least not wholly), as there were many businesses (large & small) that closed permanently during the pandemic, and never reopened.

They can't have given back anybody their jobs, as they ceased to exist.
You know Professor, I never said the CDC was partisan. I never said that the administration was instructing the CDC or the FDA. I have repeatedly said that both Democrats and Republicans administration advocated those restrictive policies. I really don’t know how to make that any plainer for you and GoU. I didn’t agree with those policies as you well know.

My point is simple. The government, fed,state,and local idled thru policy 20 to 30 per cent of the labor force. That’s just a fact. It doesn’t matter if I agree with the policy or not. So when one or either admin steps up and does victory laps about “creating jobs” post pandemic that’s a bullshit claim. We recovered jobs. We allowed people to go back to work. It’s not like one or either admin had some kind of secret sauce for creating jobs. So at the same time people are returning to work post pandemic, we also have the lowest labor participation rate in 20 years. More people are staying home and fewer people are working.

I agree with you that the emergency spending in the pandemic was bipartisan. You might want to mention that to Drak. He seems to think that was all one sided. The deficit reduction we keep hearing about isn’t due to some frugal cost cutting measures, it’s due to the fact that we aren’t continuing to fund emergency pandemic spending.
gounion
Posts: 17051
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:59 pm

Re: Way to go Joe

Post by gounion »

JoeMemphis wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 1:26 pm You know Professor, I never said the CDC was partisan. I never said that the administration was instructing the CDC or the FDA. I have repeatedly said that both Democrats and Republicans administration advocated those restrictive policies. I really don’t know how to make that any plainer for you and GoU. I didn’t agree with those policies as you well know.

My point is simple. The government, fed,state,and local idled thru policy 20 to 30 per cent of the labor force. That’s just a fact. It doesn’t matter if I agree with the policy or not. So when one or either admin steps up and does victory laps about “creating jobs” post pandemic that’s a bullshit claim. We recovered jobs. We allowed people to go back to work. It’s not like one or either admin had some kind of secret sauce for creating jobs. So at the same time people are returning to work post pandemic, we also have the lowest labor participation rate in 20 years. More people are staying home and fewer people are working.

I agree with you that the emergency spending in the pandemic was bipartisan. You might want to mention that to Drak. He seems to think that was all one sided. The deficit reduction we keep hearing about isn’t due to some frugal cost cutting measures, it’s due to the fact that we aren’t continuing to fund emergency pandemic spending.
So let’s be clear - bottom line the last administration took away jobs, this one brought them back.
JoeMemphis

Re: Way to go Joe

Post by JoeMemphis »

gounion wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 1:17 pm To act like the GOP is any different is what is laughable. You are going to vote for people that voted all of that, plus they are anti-choice and anti-gay and you don’t care. So for all your talk, you are fine with it all as long as they have that (R) next to their name.
That’s all you got. Every post you return to the same theme. You can’t address any issue. You can’t make a “cogent” argument on the merits of a policy. So you resort to this kind of dick wagging behavior.

By the way, I didn’t say the GOP was different. In fact I’ve said the opposite. You and Drak are the ones who say there’s this big difference. Now all you got is whataboutism. Careful. Drak gets all butthurt when it comes to whataboutism.
JoeMemphis

Re: Way to go Joe

Post by JoeMemphis »

gounion wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 1:29 pm So let’s be clear - bottom line the last administration took away jobs, this one brought them back.
That would be an ignorant man’s interpretation of what I said. I’m certainly not surprised to be hearing it from you.
User avatar
ProfX
Posts: 4087
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2021 3:15 pm
Location: Earth

Re: Way to go Joe

Post by ProfX »

JoeMemphis wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 1:26 pm My point is simple. The government, fed,state,and local idled thru policy 20 to 30 per cent of the labor force.
I think unemployment surged due to both lockdowns AND the effects of the pandemic itself. Workers were afraid to go to work. Employers were afraid to have them interact with customers. Customer traffic was declining for intrinsic reasons. Etc. Both are true. I know I won't convince you of that; but it also happens to be true. Reason I say that is it surged even in places without lockdowns -- ... yeah, there's data for that.

How much was due to which cause, I can't say for sure, I just am arguing against your one-sided picture.
More people are staying home and fewer people are working.
Yeah. But having put that out there, the question is why. Do you know? (I do know one reason is they are STILL worried about the pandemic.)

The other is that employers don't seem interested in creating a more empathetic, worker-friendly environment post-pandemic for returning workers (see: a lot of stuff Motor City posts).
"Don't believe every quote attributed to people on the Internet" -- Abraham Lincoln :D
User avatar
Drak
Posts: 4493
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 3:02 pm

Re: Way to go Joe

Post by Drak »

JoeMemphis wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 1:33 pm . Careful. Drak gets all butthurt when it comes to whataboutism.
Yah you keep repeating that. You're a moron. I call you out for your faux both sides bullshit, that you constantly fabricate. You know, like the time you said the liberals would do the same thing when it comes to pushing a SC justice through a week before an election. Something that never happened. This is a liberal message board. And it's a political message board. Not my fault you have sads about being called out as the biggest hypocrite around here.
"Some of those that work forces,
Are the same that burn crosses"

- Rage Against the Machine
JoeMemphis

Re: Way to go Joe

Post by JoeMemphis »

Drak wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 1:37 pm Yah you keep repeating that. You're a moron. I call you out for your faux both sides bullshit, that you constantly fabricate. You know, like the time you said the liberals would do the same thing when it comes to pushing a SC justice through a week before an election. Something that never happened. This is a liberal message board. And it's a political message board. Not my fault you have sads about being called out as the biggest hypocrite around here.
Get a pillow to sit on. I hear it helps.
User avatar
Drak
Posts: 4493
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 3:02 pm

Re: Way to go Joe

Post by Drak »

JoeMemphis wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 1:55 pm Get a pillow to sit on. I hear it helps.
:lol: It's hilarious how upset you are for being called out for the hypocrite you are. Keep crying, clown fella.
"Some of those that work forces,
Are the same that burn crosses"

- Rage Against the Machine
JoeMemphis

Re: Way to go Joe

Post by JoeMemphis »

Drak wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 1:57 pm :lol: It's hilarious how upset you are for being called out for the hypocrite you are. Keep crying, clown fella.
Yeah I’m torn all to pieces Drak. :lol: :lol: :lol:
User avatar
Drak
Posts: 4493
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 3:02 pm

Re: Way to go Joe

Post by Drak »

JoeMemphis wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 2:07 pm Yeah I’m torn all to pieces Drak. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Uh huh. Exactly. You’re so tender you can’t even respond to Carmen when she schools you.

Image
"Some of those that work forces,
Are the same that burn crosses"

- Rage Against the Machine
User avatar
Libertas
Posts: 6468
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 5:16 pm

Re: Way to go Joe

Post by Libertas »

Drak wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 1:37 pm Yah you keep repeating that. You're a moron. I call you out for your faux both sides bullshit, that you constantly fabricate. You know, like the time you said the liberals would do the same thing when it comes to pushing a SC justice through a week before an election. Something that never happened. This is a liberal message board. And it's a political message board. Not my fault you have sads about being called out as the biggest hypocrite around here.
I hear Joe Biden announced today that hundreds or thousands of charging stations are going up across the country for electric cars, what do you want to bet board con will find something wrong with that.
I sigh in your general direction.
User avatar
ZoWie
Posts: 5042
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:39 pm
Location: The blue parts of the map

Re: Way to go Joe

Post by ZoWie »

The whole inflation thing is BS. Some of the right can't do MAGA with a straight face, so they've shifted their propaganda offensive to Bidenflation. It's about their intellectual speed. When you're frightened and in doubt, DON'T get scared and run about. Blame the Democrats. Media pick it up, they're owned by the money class and jump when instructed to, and next thing it's all Biden's fault.

Drumpf caused the inflation, as much as anything did. He let covid get out of control, said to drink bleach or just don't worry about it. He made Putin feel like king of the world, and emboldened Vlad The Impaler to start the biggest European land war since the 1940s. That raised energy prices. By then he'd already lost the election due to his lousy administration, but he couldn't even accept it like a man. First he told the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers to go forth and overthrow the US government. They tried. There's a committee hearing and a bunch of trials over that.

But wait, there's more. Last time I looked, the FBI was putting out photos of his stolen Top Secret SCI folders strewn all over the floor when they should be in vaults in RF-shielded rooms in heavily guarded buildings. It gets more evident weekly that the Republican Party can't fool anyone beyond their own previously fooled on drumpf, the titular leader of their party, so now it's all economy all the time. It's all they have.

The rest of the inflation problem is systemic. It's largely cyclic. The natural business cycle was exacerbated by the pandemic, which hit shipping and output, and the war, which hit output even worse. The trouble was brewing anyway thanks to reckless Republican trashing of our self-sustainability, and when you add in the shocks of the past three years to the shortages hard-wired into the system by Republican policies, inflation went through the roof. There are systemic ways to deal with it, but they are painful. The Fed waited too long because they knew they'd draw flak and probably cause an overdue market crash, but the numbers threatened to go to 1930s Germany levels and they had to act. By then the action required had become severe, 75 basis points every meeting, and that caused an inverted yield curve and an investor panic.

Biden's spending bills haven't kicked in yet, and when they do they also raise corporate taxes, which I would imagine is why the conservatives around here are apoplectic.
"We must remember that we cannot abandon the truth and remain a free nation." --Liz Cheney, Republican, 7/21/22
gounion
Posts: 17051
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:59 pm

Re: Way to go Joe

Post by gounion »

JoeMemphis wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 1:33 pm That’s all you got. Every post you return to the same theme. You can’t address any issue. You can’t make a “cogent” argument on the merits of a policy. So you resort to this kind of dick wagging behavior.

By the way, I didn’t say the GOP was different. In fact I’ve said the opposite. You and Drak are the ones who say there’s this big difference. Now all you got is whataboutism. Careful. Drak gets all butthurt when it comes to whataboutism.
So it's not different, but you're going to vote for them anyway. They aren't for your views, but you're going to vote for them anyway. You're for gay rights, but they're going to take them away, but you're going to vote for them anyway. You're against Trump, but you're going to vote for all his supporting lawmakers anyway.

Well, you've got nothing. But then you never do.
Glennfs
Posts: 10194
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:54 pm

Re: Way to go Joe

Post by Glennfs »

gounion wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 3:49 pm So it's not different, but you're going to vote for them anyway. They aren't for your views, but you're going to vote for them anyway. You're for gay rights, but they're going to take them away, but you're going to vote for them anyway. You're against Trump, but you're going to vote for all his supporting lawmakers anyway.

Well, you've got nothing. But then you never do.
If Jesus H Christ was running against Satan you would vote for the Democrat.

People like me and Joe and the other moderates here will vote for a Democrat when they are the better of the two choices.
" I am a socialist " Bernie Sanders
Glennfs
Posts: 10194
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:54 pm

Re: Way to go Joe

Post by Glennfs »

gounion wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 1:29 pm So let’s be clear - bottom line the last administration took away jobs, this one brought them back.
Well you are half right which is pretty good for a liberal.
Prior to the pandemic unemployment was almost exactly where it is today.
Biden did allow the economy to reopen which did allow thg he jobs to return
" I am a socialist " Bernie Sanders
bradman
Posts: 2518
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2021 10:03 am
Location: Home of the DFL

Re: Way to go Joe

Post by bradman »

Glennfs wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 4:12 pm If Jesus H Christ was running against Satan you would vote for the Democrat.

People like me and Joe and the other moderates here will vote for a Democrat when they are the better of the two choices.
Dude, ya might wanna rethink what a moderate is. Cuz, bro, ya ain't one of them. :mrgreen:
I am not a member of any organized political party. I am a Democrat. [Will Rogers]
gounion
Posts: 17051
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:59 pm

Re: Way to go Joe

Post by gounion »

Glennfs wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 4:12 pm If Jesus H Christ was running against Satan you would vote for the Democrat.

People like me and Joe and the other moderates here will vote for a Democrat when they are the better of the two choices.
Joe will not. Neither will you - you voted for Graham in 2020, even as you said the other candidate was the better one.

You voted for Hillary, but said she should be in jail too, which is what Trump told you to say. Of course, when Trump steals intel, or when he gave Israeli intel to the Russians as his first action as President, you're fine with it.
User avatar
Drak
Posts: 4493
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 3:02 pm

Re: Way to go Joe

Post by Drak »

Glennfs wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 4:12 pm If Jesus H Christ was running against Satan you would vote for the Democrat.

People like me and Joe and the other moderates here will vote for a Democrat when they are the better of the two choices.
You are NOT not a moderate. And no one here believes you voted for HRC, Obama, or Biden, when all you’ve done is attack them. You’re also a well known and admitted liar.
Last edited by Drak on Wed Sep 14, 2022 4:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Some of those that work forces,
Are the same that burn crosses"

- Rage Against the Machine
Glennfs
Posts: 10194
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:54 pm

Re: Way to go Joe

Post by Glennfs »

gounion wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 4:15 pm Joe will not. Neither will you - you voted for Graham in 2020, even as you said the other candidate was the better one.

You voted for Hillary, but said she should be in jail too, which is what Trump told you to say. Of course, when Trump steals intel, or when he gave Israeli intel to the Russians as his first action as President, you're fine with it.
I never said HRC should be in jail please quit lying
" I am a socialist " Bernie Sanders
gounion
Posts: 17051
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:59 pm

Re: Way to go Joe

Post by gounion »

Glennfs wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 4:14 pm Well you are half right which is pretty good for a liberal.
Prior to the pandemic unemployment was almost exactly where it is today.
Biden did allow the economy to reopen which did allow thg he jobs to return
Because he was able to get the vaccines and other treatments out. The reason that it didn't work better was because most of the Trumpers refused to take the vaccines.

Biden was acting like a REAL President. And, of course, your side fought him the whole way.
Post Reply