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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:12 pm 
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https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/16/us/p ... -reid.html

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Glowing Auras and ‘Black Money’: The Pentagon’s Mysterious U.F.O. Program

For years, the program investigated reports of unidentified flying objects, according to Defense Department officials, interviews with program participants and records obtained by The New York Times. It was run by a military intelligence official, Luis Elizondo, on the fifth floor of the Pentagon’s C Ring, deep within the building’s maze.

The Defense Department has never before acknowledged the existence of the program, which it says it shut down in 2012. But its backers say that, while the Pentagon ended funding for the effort at that time, the program remains in existence. For the past five years, they say, officials with the program have continued to investigate episodes brought to them by service members, while also carrying out their other Defense Department duties.

The shadowy program — parts of it remain classified — began in 2007, and initially it was largely funded at the request of Harry Reid, the Nevada Democrat who was the Senate majority leader at the time and who has long had an interest in space phenomena. Most of the money went to an aerospace research company run by a billionaire entrepreneur and longtime friend of Mr. Reid’s, Robert Bigelow, who is currently working with NASA to produce expandable craft for humans to use in space.

On CBS’s “60 Minutes” in May, Mr. Bigelow said he was “absolutely convinced” that aliens exist and that U.F.O.s have visited Earth.


It's worth reading the whole article. Harry Reid really went over the edge on this one.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:11 pm 
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UFO's are an interesting subject. While there's been no definitive proof of alien aircraft those incidences of unexplained sightings make you think. In 2004, off the coast of San Diego, Navy pilots have a video of their aircraft displays showing an unidentified object flying at a high rate of speed.
www.youtube.com Video from : www.youtube.com


Here's a New York Times article with one of the pilots involved talking about what he saw.

New York Times

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:29 pm 
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There was some interest in Oumuamua (*) as a potential alien probe. However, they hailed it on all frequencies, and got no response. It may just be an unusual asteroid.

(*)
http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/20 ... -radi.html

Robert Bigelow has shown some interest in commercializing space -- he wants to build a space hotel.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:56 pm 
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i go back n forth. amidst the eon clusters of shiny space objects and galaxies wherein we here
are only one eetsy beetsy teeny object in the Billions and Billions of galaxies...we're talking billions of
eons---my first question is how does our planet have blue, water, showing all over...and second WhyTF
would they come here to this itsy bitsy no name teeny ball of stuff in the far reaches of eons of other
round galactic objects in space.
did blue show up billions of years ago..as a nicer color?
billions of years ago who knew blue meant water?...neanderthals?

Then, i go back to...all the Structures, the mega-lithic and lithic and mono lithic and undersea lithics...and
cant help wonder how they got here.
NO way human as we know them did these mega lithic, and other lithic, structures. dumb neanderthals
didnt do them.
ice age uprights didnt do them.

so, i keep asking myself...Who Did Them. who built all these massive, some now under water, sites.
who stood up the 95ton pillars at the Aztec ruins?

do i figure life is elsewhere, why of course. im still trying to figure out what life was Here Before.
well, so are most from anthro to bio.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:24 pm 
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I'm not sure all UFOs are extra-terrestrial. The scientific problem: how do they get here from there? Remember, if it's 200 light years away, even if they had hyperdrives that could go light speed (continues to be some debate as to whether it's even possible though of course it's cool to watch in movies like Star Trek or Star Wars), it takes 200 years to get here. Now, there may be wormholes. But do they go where we want to go, or they do? The Interstellar one was awfully convenient.

It's why a few authors have suggested our first alien probes may be AIs. The only things where no organic lifespan will matter. Voyager has left our solar system, and it's a robot.

They could be extra-dimensional. We have no idea how that could be possible, either. It does make for great science fiction. (See: Kingdom of Crystal Skull.)

Other phenomena might be so-called "Earthlights" ball lightning and other things that are poorly understood.

Of course, some UFOs do not appear to be actual structured craft. Those that are seem to be capable of stuff our aircraft is not. That is why this program was started. Certainly not the first, the Air Force had Project Blue Book back in the 60s and 70s. One hypothesis, generally rejected, is these are some terrestrial nation's technology. Well, if that's true, they have secret stuff that's kicking our ass, making right turns in mid air, able to hover in a still position ... hence the concern for researching this.

If you're hoping for dead alien bodies at some base, I don't think we have any. The government does not still seem to be certain of what UFOs are or where they come from, even after this program. That they can run rings around our fighters is why they keep trying to get an answer.

The modern UFO wave started in 1947. However, as Jacques Vallee has noted (he's portrayed as "Lacombe" in Close Encounters), it may just be that there have been sightings earlier in history, but they were characterized as "angels" or other things in those time periods.

Robert Bigelow has said he is certain there are aliens among us, right now. A lot of skeptics have asked him to put up or shut up, I've never seen him produce any definite evidence.

BTW: the one thing people claim may be physically real are alien "implants" found in some claiming to be abductees. Be warned: this is one Internet rabbit hole without an obvious bottom.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:29 pm 
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attempts to comprehend what went on on this planet over the billions of its years is tortured by religion.

perhaps religion doesnt exist in space.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:38 pm 
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Erich Van Daniken - Chariots of the Gods - pretty much claims aliens and UFOs may be the source of a lot of religious mythology. I don't like Von Daniken very much. What are ceremonial masks in ancient Japan suddenly become space helmets. What is clearly a depiction of a Mayan god entering the underworld, Von Daniken says is a rocket ship taking off. The mystical chariots of ancient Hindu gods - clearly space ships. He is a man with a hammer, and everything he sees is nails.

Certainly, this is how the MCU is playing out things - Thor and Odin & the Asgardians are basically long-lived extra-terrestrials with super-advanced tech; Odin reprimands Loki for saying they are gods.

In one famous original Trek episode (Who Mourns for Adonais?), they actually find Apollo living on a planet, his lightning powers coming from a generator in his temple. He also appears to be an ET.

As for whether religion exists on other worlds, well, there seem to be tantalizing hints that even the Engineers of Prometheus were worshipping something else. This subject is never really touched on in the sequel.

The comics canon is that the Kryptonians had a religion. The Supergirl TV show is exploring this right now. Fascinatingly, it looks like Rao, their sun-god, may have once been part of a polytheistic pantheon, before becoming their monotheistic deity. The Aten of Akhenaten was a sun-disc.

Whitley Streiber, the planet's most famous (claimed) abductee, these days, seems to also be endorsing the extra-dimensional/multiverse theory.

Image

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Last edited by ProfessorX on Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:45 pm 
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sorry prof ive no idea what you are talking about. is it sci fi novels?

of course im aware of Daniken. the rest reads like a sci fi movie ive not seen.

but i dont do game of thrones either so call me unaware. lol

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:53 pm 
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MCU = Marvel Cinematic Universe -- the Thor, Avengers movies, etc.
Who Mourns for Adonais? was one of the original episodes of the original Star Trek (with Shatner, Nimoy, etc.)
Supergirl is currently a TV show on the CW, though I think Rao goes back to the comics.
Prometheus was the "prequel" to Aliens by Ridley Scott, where he explores the beings who made them, and us - the otherwise nameless "Engineers".
Whitley Streiber wrote Communion and Transformation, books he claims are nonfiction accounts of his alien abduction. He has also written fiction that he identifies as fiction.

Skeptics have argued Streiber may suffer from Temporal Lobe epilepsy (TLE).

BTW, I like both sci-fi and fantasy, but they are really different genres. LOTR, GoT, Conan the Barbarian are all fantasy. Star Wars, Star Trek, Aliens/Prometheus - sci fi. Fantasy generally involves mixing medieval reality with magic and fantasy monsters. Sci fi supposedly comes in hard and soft varieties. The hard strictly follows all known laws of science and physics. Doctor Who might be soft rather than hard as time travel may be possible but so far we don't know how to do it, plus travel into the past could lead to impossible paradoxes. Some folks have said Star Wars may be more fantasy in a sci fi setting, with its rescued princesses and Force/Jedi religion.

It's cool to watch the Millennium Falcon or Enterprise travel at light speed, but both series totally ignore what Einstein said. First off, reaching light speed is close to impossible, it would require energy sources beyond anything known in the universe to accelerate to that speed. Plus weird things will start to happen, just like they show in the movie Interstellar. You might be able to reach a nearby star in 4 years, but for people not on your voyage, something like 400 years might elapse ... time dilation.

And you would need massive shields, because at speeds even close to that, a grain of interstellar dust could blow apart your hull. (F=ma, if a is huge and m is tiny, still a big number.)

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:37 pm 
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Einstein's Train is an odd ride. Very strange things happen. At lightspeed, it gets too weird to conceive, except maybe mathematically. Time dilation is one of the issues. There's also FitzGerald contraction and (as you say) totally improbable energy for a massive object (you).

I think most SF solves this problem by not going lightspeed, but by going through higher dimensions or curved space (warp drive).

This UFO study thing is all over the Nooz now. A lot of people think it's actually a good idea, given the number of unexplained phenomena. I think I got put off by Harry Reid, with his billionaire space head buddy getting all the money. It reminded me of when Goldwater spent our money asking the CIA to look for Noah's Ark.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:59 pm 
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So, my position is "unidentified" flying "objects" in the sky - well, some are probably not "objects". Swamp gas, earthlights, ball lightning, misidentified celestial phenomena.

Others might be "objects" - i.e. structured craft - that's the real rub. I would say ever since Kenneth Arnold saw his "saucers skipping across the sky" in 1947 (that's where the word "flying saucer" comes from) obviously some people have been seeing things that are clearly - physical objects.

We can once again assume some of these are just misidentified but rather mundane human made objects - blimps, jets ... black projects? But what I really think got the Air Force's attention was what some of these objects could do. It did not seem to be conventionally known flight technology.

I see them starting this project in 2007 for the same reasons they started Blue Book in the Sixties. Blue Book, whatever CTists might think, never found any answers. No we don't have crashed saucers or bodies. Some of these things appear to be structured craft, they're doing stuff our planes can't do, whoever's they are, we want this tech. :D

Area 51 is of course in Nevada in Harry Reid's state. I often get asked my opinion about Area 51. AFAICT, they may be testing some cutting-edge "skunkworks" stuff there, but I don't think they have aliens.

I would keep an eye on Bigelow who seems to have gotten most of the money from this project. His agenda is he wants to commercialize space, and build up space tourism and create a space hotel. As with any other capitalist, we need to be skeptical of how the profit motive affects his view of reality. I'd leave it at that.

Incidentally, I am personally choosing not to deal with close encounters of the third kind. Or the 4th (some call alien abductions that). It's all a real thorny mess.

I know somebody who believes they are an abductee. I'm going to leave it at this - the one thing I don't think they are doing is lying.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 4:27 pm 
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Quote:
- the one thing I don't think they are doing is lying.


yah.
i have a folder of news articles written in a rural newspaper still in existence.
each article has to do with cattle mutilations happening in rural front range Colorado,
from Walsenburg up to WeldCty. a span of about four years, maybe 3.
very explicit with photos articles telling tale after tale of the cow bodies being found
with the lazer cuts no blood etc etc.
then came the story of the dead buffalo. small herd Now Kept Right Outside the House
in a Lit Pen with Dogs Nearby. then the morning came where one was dead on the ground.
lazer cuts etc and no one heard a thing, no dog barked no lights scared anything away.
no buffalo made a sound nor did they run or stomp or kick small pen fence.
no one ever had an 'explanation'.


the only other one i know is this. a lady down in SCO who was in business locally had a story
ill never forget. a friend and i drove down to visit this lady late fall around TDay just for yuks.
i had seen her over summer and into late summer as i was looking for a piece of land at the time.
we get to her place and when she opened the door she looked very excited. she said i have
to tell you a story and you prolly wont believe it but im going to tell you anyway. ok sure we said.
she commenced to describe the night not long ago when she her son her sister were awakened
by bright lights. her small place sat atop a ridge of the hill over a low valley.

they each came from different rooms and stood in the lvg rm looking out the windows at the big
bright lights. then, they walked outside and stood on the deck looking at the big bright lights on
this very large silver machine that was slowly hovering yet slowly moving thru the low valley.
she said they barely spoke didnt know what to say, it just slowly moved thru the low valley.
by the time it was clearing the front of her place she said they saw small diff color lights on the front
and it was Clearly a large silver flat-ish hover craft hovering its way thru the valley.
she kept saying how crazy it sounded and if she'd been alone she'd never have said a word but
since she had 2 others with her seeing the same thing she told others, made calls that nite to
others in the small valley and many had seen the same thing and some told of young trees, the
pinon type having burnt tops, cinged they said by this moving vehicle in the low valley sky.
she said it was easily a football field in length. it took nearly 30mins for it to slowly hover and
clear the valley.

between the, yes, she had a Glow, while she told this story...between that and the detail she had
we both drove home fully convinced we'd been with someone who'd had a major UE, unidentified
experience. i believed her.

where she lived was ranching country, where some of the mutilated cattle were found was in
her immediate general ranching area.
go figure.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 4:32 pm 
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after the above events...there was a cattle mutilation about 8miles from us---after these things
everyone i know made a point of locking horses up at nite. one lady watched out her kitchen
window one morning early as her, one of them, horse was lifted in the air by its feet to the whirring sounds
of some machine. horse was gone by the time she got outside. gone.

i recall those were some scary shit days and months. we never knew what to expect especially
with NORAD and all that spooking shit that was going on then, black choppers HOVERING OVER
ME AT THE HAY STACK WITH MY SHERIFF SON WAVING AT THEM SAYING MOM YOU SEE THE
INFRARED AIMED AT THE HAY STACKS???
um no son i didnt, i just saw the black unmarked chopper blowing shit around my fucking barnyard.

yah CS CO area at that time was pretty creepy.
yah right, they were only looking for WEED was the story they put out as they spooked us all
in rural CO. like my big tall tarped hay stacks were full of WEED. sure. right. :?

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 4:57 pm 
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right, i was reminded of another event.

this lady was driving her truck into the pasture to check water for another guys cattle while he was away.
i know this land, so, i also, cant imagine where they hid but once she went thru one gate to get
to the next down a dirt road the Heat came out of nowhere she said. suddenly she was surrounded
by black vehicles.

this land rises and dips and somewhere in this land they were when she got to the inside gate area
with the water tank and they descended upon her.
she went to court and she told a very detailed account of WHY she carried a shotgun in her truck.
and of course WHY she pointed it at them as they rushed her in their vehicles.

but that wasnt good enough, they charged her with threatening and she then gave the media the
detailed account of how it went down in the pasture that morning; well printed in this same rural newspaper.
in the end she walked away but they made her life hellish for about two years.

anytime we saw a black vehicle of any kind, on the road, in the air, in the yard...we knew we
were being spooked upon in rural CO.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 5:00 pm 
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IMHO, the best author on the topic of UFOs - he's deceased - was J. Allen Hynek. Died in 1986. He was an astronomer at Northwestern University. Among the non-skeptics, I think he tackles the question best and as an astronomer, he also knew when people were mis-identifying Venus or other things in the sky. Hynek famously argued that probably 90% of CE1 sightings were misidentifications. But the other 10% are not easily explained.

He actually came up with the "Close Encounter" system of classifying reports, which gives the title for "CEs of the Third Kind" movie, and acted as an advisor to that film. Also, BTW, was an advisor to the Air Force's Project Blue Book. I understand Hynek actually has a cameo in the CE3 movie, you can see him briefly in the end. The "Lacombe" character in the film is clearly based on the French astronomer Jacques Vallee, who was one of his colleagues.

Vallee finally came to argue, later in life, the extra-dimensional (or "ultra-terrestrial") hypothesis, because there seems to be a physical problem with believing UFOs somehow can get here from light years away. BTW, of course, some have argued that perhaps although they may have come from stars that were light years away long ago, it's possible UFOs may still be aliens that have either established hidden places on Earth (underground or underwater), or may be using some place in the solar system as a base. At this point they are already "here" or nearby. It is true that in the 50s a lot of "contactees" believed UFOs were from Venus or Mars, but we now can probably be sure they are at least not lifeforms indigenous to our solar system. Those planets cannot support life. Or at least, Mars can't right now.

Returning to the subject of mythology, one thing Vallee noticed is the similarity between modern UFO reports and older folkloric stories of faeries, djinnis, angels, and ships sailing through the sky. He often pointed out the similarities between stories of alien abduction, and "fairy kidnappings". One of his books about this is called Passport to Magonia. Anyway, it turns out although most people say the modern wave of UFO sightings started in 1947, one thing he documents in the book is a wave of airships that people saw in this country - supposedly, anyway - around 1896.

The Great Airship Mystery
http://thenightsky.org/airships.html

In some cases, as with UFOs, sometimes people said they saw the airships land, and even talked to the pilots, though they never appeared to be anything other than human. When asked where they came from, they usually claimed some kind of secret, terrestrial origin. One guy said Thomas Edison was building them!

There were also reports of strange things tailing American fighters during WW II. They were called "foo fighters". Yeah, that's where the band takes their name from. Generally, most pilots thought they were a secret German technology. But if so - we never found it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foo_fighter

A fascinating subject. :D

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 5:22 pm 
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On the cattle mutilation stuff, even RationalWiki notes:
An investigation by the FBI in 1979 concluded that most 'mutilation' incidents were the result of natural deaths and predation, but some cases included anomalies that were not readily explainable.

BTW, the first reported UFO abduction in the U.S., which may or may not be the first reported UFO abduction :D , occurred in 1961, to an inter-racial couple in Virginia ... Betty & Barney Hill.

Barney died in 1969, Betty in 2004. Their therapist, Dr. Simon, BTW, who got their accounts via hypnosis, believed to the end they had merely undergone a psychiatric phenomenon called folie a deux.

This is a difficult subject to pursue if you want to avoid winding up in nonsense territory with places like Rense, VeteransToday, and InfoWars. I try. As always, I try to stick to what can be determined definitely.

I should add that one place that has become a hotspot of UFO sightings since the 1990s is ... Russia.

http://www.latitudenews.com/story/russi ... sightings/

Ever since the Cold War, we seemed to think they were theirs, and they thought they were ours. But yeah, the KGB and now the new agencies keep tabs on them.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 6:50 pm 
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A lot of things happen in Russia, because it's so damn big. It's got all that empty Siberia for things like asteroid impacts to happen in.

My theory is that people explain unknown phenomena with the tools they have. Old legends are full of things floating in the sky and weird shit happening. It was explained as supernatural angels and divine wrath and such. Now it's little spacemen in space ships.

Technically, a UFO is any unidentified flying object. Pilots used to report them, until that became a bad career move. They exist, but we don't know what they are.

I remember reading about the period in CO that Rainwater mentions. It got bizarre out there. Some of it might be covert DoD projects or the weed patrol. The rest is weird shit. I class the cattle mutilations as weird shit. I have yet to read an explanation that holds up. I don't know what did them. For me it's an unexplained phenomenon.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:08 pm 
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On the cattle mutilations, obviously the skeptics will say these are just the works of predators, doing their usual thing.

Dunno. Some folks claim it looks like they were mutilated with a beam of high heat - kind of like a laser or at least a very hot saw blade - very surgical kinds of cuts seeming to remove specific organs only, not what predators do.

And when they are mutilated inside a fence/corral where the predators are kept out - how'd it happen?

The usual theories are secret government project (Alex Jones usually goes there) with black helicopters, Satanic cultists (largely an urban myth), or ... well, ET. But yeah. Why come so many light years here to mutilate our cows?

There was a woman named Linda Moulton Howe who used to talk about this on Coast to Coast AM way back when. Yeah, I listen once in a while, what the hell else is on the car radio at witching hour. Michio Kaku goes on Coast to Coast too. :D

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 1:20 pm 
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This UFO story is really growing legs. The head guy is interviewed in the Daily Telegraph, not some Murdoch tabloid:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12 ... -pentagon/

Quote:
Luis Elizondo said the existence of supremely advanced unidentified aircraft, using technology that did not belong to any nation, had been "proved beyond reasonable doubt".

Until two months ago, from his office on the fifth floor of The Pentagon, Mr Elizondo, a career intelligence officer, ran the innocuously named Advanced Aviation Threat Identification Program (AATIP), which was funded with $22 million in "black ops money" from Congress.

The existence of the real-life X-Files department, which began in 2007, was revealed this week and confirmed by the Pentagon.

In an interview with the Telegraph Mr Elizondo said much of what he could discuss was still classified.


The accompanying photo shows a dark Thing on a radar screen. Looks more like an advanced aircraft than ETs. Oh wait, maybe the part where they wave out the windows is still classified.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 1:51 pm 
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UFOs by their definition are unknown and there's a certain amount of fantasy/romanticism around the idea of aliens visitors to our planet. As a teenager in the 60s, I read books on UFOs and I've kept an interest in reading about them. There are a lot of unexplained sightings but just because they're unexplained doesn't mean they are of extraterrestrial origin. Although I believe there is life on other planets I keep a healthy skepticism concerning UFOs. What I'd like is physical evidence that we can analyze and conclude definitely of their existence.

Still, what is fascinating is trying to explain the explainable. I guess our imagination needs a good work out now and then.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 3:04 pm 
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It's kind of the Day the Earth Stood Still paradigm of First Contact, not the Close Encounters of the Third Kind one. "We have evidence of advanced civilizations from other planets visiting Earth, but I can't tell you why we think that because it's still a military secret."

It's interesting because the way we imagine First Contact, especially in movies, has always been a reliable indicator of where we are as a culture at a given time.

1950s: They're not American, therefore they must be hostile. Call the military, quick.
1960s: God is an ET.
1970s: A long long time ago, in a galaxy far far away...
1980s: Spaceman becomes celebrity.
1990s: Spaceman goes to Wall Street.
2000s: Terrorists from another world are defeated by brave Americans using Morse code.
2010s: That's classified.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:03 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:16 pm 
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Curiously enough, the X-Files reincarnated series 2/season 11 is coming soon in 2018.

https://www.digitaltrends.com/movies/x- ... cast-news/

January 3rd.

Apparently, the "mythos" episodes will focus on Mulder and Scully's search for their lost son, William.

BTW, I never much liked the second movie. Really seemed like nothing more than a long standalone episode, and wasn't written much better. They've finally gotten together and been "shipped," but Mulder seemed less desirable than ever :D , doing nothing with his life post-FBI.

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